Why Get Mad at Bill Donahue?

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
41

[quote]Cortes wrote:

[quote]therajraj wrote:

Under the circumstances they are under, regularly alone around young boys for DECADES they eventually develop attraction. The same way it is not uncommon for a man who is heterosexual on the street to develop homosexual desires after YEARS of only being surrounded by men while incarcerated. like I said, human sexuality is a product of nature and environment.
[/quote]

Oh please. It is blindingly clear you don’t know the first thing about the Catholic Church so please stop talking as if you are some sort of authority.

Catholic priests are not cloistered monks. There are alter GIRLS as well as boys, and they are in contact with a vast number of women (from their parish) at any given time.

Seriously, I’m going to remember this the next time I read your “arguments.” You will just say whatever the fuck you think, regardless of its authenticity.

In the meantime, I’ll still be waiting for that evidence you must have seen to make such otherwise bald-faced libelous assertions.
[/quote]

And girls are also getting molested…approx 1/3 in of cases in Belgium are female.

Anyway, if you do not like my posts feel free to put me on ignore.

42

Given recent headlines, with the Catholic Church nationwide struggling with its worst sex scandal, you might easily assume these victims are boys and adolescent males – altar boys, perhaps, assaulted by pedophiles lurking beneath the collar.

They are victims, yes, but they are not boys at all. They are grown women, forced to live with a betrayal many misperceive to be borne almost exclusively by males.

Look again.

“Of the priests we’ve evaluated, more abuse girls than abuse boys,” says Gary Schoener, a Minneapolis psychologist and expert on clergy sexual abuse.

Despite media emphasis over the years on male victims – boys and men with horrific stories of their own – Schoener and other experts believe that troubled priests and other clergy are more likely to abuse females, especially adult women.

Sometimes their stories trickle out; more often, they do not.

Meanwhile, the number of male victims in a single parish can add up quickly, as one pedophile-priest may have unlimited access for a long period to boys on outings or other male-oriented church activities.

From this, big headlines are made.

“Everything’s always about the altar boys. It’s like nothing ever happened to the girls,” says Terrie Light of Castro Valley, West Coast regional director of SNAP, Survivors Network of Those Abused by Priests (survivorsnetwork.org).

Light was about 8 and attending church in the Oakland diocese when she went to the rectory looking for her mother. She was raped by the priest instead.

Now 50, she struggled emotionally for years – feeling “crazy and weird and defective.” There simply were no other stories about women.

“When I finally found other (abused) women, I started getting better,” she said. “I found out my story wasn’t all that uncommon.”

There are many explanations for the widespread misperception about victims of clergy abuse, though one of the most disturbing is this: the old “she asked for it.”

She must have seduced him. She made him sin.

The girl, however young, is cast as temptress.

Such was the logic played over and over to a Los Angeles woman, who became pregnant years ago after her priest and six other priests routinely had intercourse with her beginning when she was 16.

“As Catholics, we see priests even above angels,” said Rita Milla, who is now married with a second child. “To believe whatever they said had to be the right thing.”

After giving birth in the Philippines, where the priest had hidden her away, Milla returned with her child and eventually sued the church.

In 1991, the priest publicly apologized for seducing the teenager, but she did not win her lawsuit – in part, because it was filed too late. She had refused to settle, she said, because she would not agree to silence.

Yet even today, the courts are not always sympathetic to female victims.

Boys not only get more media coverage in clergy abuse cases, said Schoener, they also tend to get bigger verdicts. Homophobia, he believes, has been a “very, very powerful force.”

“In modern society, homosexual rape is considered a more heinous act,” said the psychologist, who is frequently an expert witness.

Ranking victims’ worthiness is the worst thing we can do – look no further than the bickering over the Sept. 11 fund. But overlooking a whole group of victims is right up there.

“There are a lot of women (victims) out there who believe they are alone and isolated and ‘special’ in a bad way,” says Light.

They are not, and that is the good news. For both sexes, it is also the bad.

Here is a link to more female sex abuse cases: News Stories about Female Victims of Clergy Sexual Abuse

43

[quote]Gettnitdone wrote:
This is just another lame attempt to vilify and attack gays.

Priests molesting boys is fucked up.

Someones mad…[/quote]

How are we villifying gays by telling the truth? Or is the truth homophobic? All im saying is that the problem in the catholic church is a homosexual problem, not a pedophile problem like the MSM claims because most boys were teenagers when the abuse began.

44

[quote]therajraj wrote:

[quote]Cortes wrote:

[quote]therajraj wrote:

Under the circumstances they are under, regularly alone around young boys for DECADES they eventually develop attraction. The same way it is not uncommon for a man who is heterosexual on the street to develop homosexual desires after YEARS of only being surrounded by men while incarcerated. like I said, human sexuality is a product of nature and environment.
[/quote]

Oh please. It is blindingly clear you don’t know the first thing about the Catholic Church so please stop talking as if you are some sort of authority.

Catholic priests are not cloistered monks. There are alter GIRLS as well as boys, and they are in contact with a vast number of women (from their parish) at any given time.

Seriously, I’m going to remember this the next time I read your “arguments.” You will just say whatever the fuck you think, regardless of its authenticity.

In the meantime, I’ll still be waiting for that evidence you must have seen to make such otherwise bald-faced libelous assertions.
[/quote]

And girls are also getting molested…approx 1/3 in of cases in Belgium are female.

Anyway, if you do not like my posts feel free to put me on ignore.

[/quote]

Yes, terribly, girls have been molested as well, but clearly not for the reasons you stated in the above post. Indeed that girls have also been molested makes your first statement look even more wrong.

If you want to come in an slander a group of mostly very good people with wholly unfounded supposition, don’t be surprised when you get called out on it.

45

[quote]therajraj wrote:

Given recent headlines, with the Catholic Church nationwide struggling with its worst sex scandal, you might easily assume these victims are boys and adolescent males – altar boys, perhaps, assaulted by pedophiles lurking beneath the collar.

They are victims, yes, but they are not boys at all. They are grown women, forced to live with a betrayal many misperceive to be borne almost exclusively by males.

Look again.

“Of the priests we’ve evaluated, more abuse girls than abuse boys,” says Gary Schoener, a Minneapolis psychologist and expert on clergy sexual abuse.

Despite media emphasis over the years on male victims – boys and men with horrific stories of their own – Schoener and other experts believe that troubled priests and other clergy are more likely to abuse females, especially adult women.

Sometimes their stories trickle out; more often, they do not.

Meanwhile, the number of male victims in a single parish can add up quickly, as one pedophile-priest may have unlimited access for a long period to boys on outings or other male-oriented church activities.

From this, big headlines are made.

“Everything’s always about the altar boys. It’s like nothing ever happened to the girls,” says Terrie Light of Castro Valley, West Coast regional director of SNAP, Survivors Network of Those Abused by Priests (survivorsnetwork.org).

Light was about 8 and attending church in the Oakland diocese when she went to the rectory looking for her mother. She was raped by the priest instead.

Now 50, she struggled emotionally for years – feeling “crazy and weird and defective.” There simply were no other stories about women.

“When I finally found other (abused) women, I started getting better,” she said. “I found out my story wasn’t all that uncommon.”

There are many explanations for the widespread misperception about victims of clergy abuse, though one of the most disturbing is this: the old “she asked for it.”

She must have seduced him. She made him sin.

The girl, however young, is cast as temptress.

Such was the logic played over and over to a Los Angeles woman, who became pregnant years ago after her priest and six other priests routinely had intercourse with her beginning when she was 16.

“As Catholics, we see priests even above angels,” said Rita Milla, who is now married with a second child. “To believe whatever they said had to be the right thing.”

After giving birth in the Philippines, where the priest had hidden her away, Milla returned with her child and eventually sued the church.

In 1991, the priest publicly apologized for seducing the teenager, but she did not win her lawsuit – in part, because it was filed too late. She had refused to settle, she said, because she would not agree to silence.

Yet even today, the courts are not always sympathetic to female victims.

Boys not only get more media coverage in clergy abuse cases, said Schoener, they also tend to get bigger verdicts. Homophobia, he believes, has been a “very, very powerful force.”

“In modern society, homosexual rape is considered a more heinous act,” said the psychologist, who is frequently an expert witness.

Ranking victims’ worthiness is the worst thing we can do – look no further than the bickering over the Sept. 11 fund. But overlooking a whole group of victims is right up there.

“There are a lot of women (victims) out there who believe they are alone and isolated and ‘special’ in a bad way,” says Light.

They are not, and that is the good news. For both sexes, it is also the bad.

Here is a link to more female sex abuse cases: http://www.snapnetwork.org/female_victims/female_victims_index.htm[/quote]

Yeah some girls may have been abused, and nobody has said they weren’t. But you have to admit, most of those abused were teenage boys. Some studies say over 80% Catholic Church sexual abuse cases - Wikipedia. And trying to say they engage in homosexual acts, but they weren’t homosexual as long as they didn’t believe themselves to be homosexual, well, I could find less shit on a cow farm. So if im a paid assasin for a drug lord, then as long as I don’t believe myself to be a cold blooded killer, then im really a nice guy, right? Afterall, I believe im a nice guy, even though I murder people for a living.

46

[quote]therajraj wrote:

[quote]Cortes wrote:

[quote]therajraj wrote:
I think the problem stems from the fact Catholic priests are required to take a vow of celibacy.

After years of repressing their sexual desires they eventually snap are no longer able to resist. Why altar boys? Because Catholic priests are in a position of authority over them and at age 12-15 young boys still have features similar to girls.

Human sexuality is influenced by nature AND nurture IMO. The same way some men/women partake in homosexual activities only while incarcerated, Catholic priests only develop the urge to molest young boys because of the vow of celibacy leads to years of built up sexual tension. If the Catholic Church allowed priests to have consensual sexual relationships with women, much of this problem would go away IMO.

So no, I don’t consider this a homosexual problem.[/quote]

More recycled bullshit.

I challenge you to show me one study, ONE, that indicates that long term celibacy leads to any sort of sexual disorder.

When you can’t, you can stop repeating memes that support what you’ve already decided you believe and start maybe actually thinking for yourself.

One study. Shouldn’t be that hard.
[/quote]

This is my own thought, I’m not recycling shit.

No, I don’t have a study and I’m not claiming it to be a fact it is just my opinion on the topic. That’s why I started my sentence with “I think” and never stated this is a PROVEN FACT. I used the acronym “IMO” for a reason.
[/quote]

So, no studies or evidence? I thought so.

And no, it’s hardly your own thought. This is about the millionth time I’ve heard it now and I doubt you’ve been living in vacuum. You just happened to believe something that has absolutely NO empirical foundation of any kind, and it just happens to be the same exact thing I have heard from all varieties of Catholic haters for years now. Good that you recognize it is just an opinion, at least. Now, will you have the honesty to admit that you have NO basis for continuing to believe such a thing other than just wanting to?

47

[quote]Cortes wrote:

[quote]therajraj wrote:

[quote]Cortes wrote:

[quote]therajraj wrote:

Under the circumstances they are under, regularly alone around young boys for DECADES they eventually develop attraction. The same way it is not uncommon for a man who is heterosexual on the street to develop homosexual desires after YEARS of only being surrounded by men while incarcerated. like I said, human sexuality is a product of nature and environment.
[/quote]

Oh please. It is blindingly clear you don’t know the first thing about the Catholic Church so please stop talking as if you are some sort of authority.

Catholic priests are not cloistered monks. There are alter GIRLS as well as boys, and they are in contact with a vast number of women (from their parish) at any given time.

Seriously, I’m going to remember this the next time I read your “arguments.” You will just say whatever the fuck you think, regardless of its authenticity.

In the meantime, I’ll still be waiting for that evidence you must have seen to make such otherwise bald-faced libelous assertions.
[/quote]

And girls are also getting molested…approx 1/3 in of cases in Belgium are female.

Anyway, if you do not like my posts feel free to put me on ignore.

[/quote]

Yes, terribly, girls have been molested as well, but clearly not for the reasons you stated in the above post. Indeed that girls have also been molested makes your first statement look even more wrong.

If you want to come in an slander a group of mostly very good people with wholly unfounded supposition, don’t be surprised when you get called out on it. [/quote]

What do you feel is so slanderous about my posts?

I don’t think Catholics are bad people, I suggested the requirement for priests to stay celibate could play a factor in these sex abuse cases.

If I’m proven wrong, I’ll happily admit it and stop considering it a possibility.

48

I know of homophobic people that refer to ALL child sex offenders are paedophiles. The media just prefer the term paedophile/paedo because it sounds catchier than ‘child sex offender’. It’s a term which is used rather indiscriminately. Same goes with the word ‘Chav’ <<<It has a very specific meaning, though, to most people it basically just means: Towny, tracksuit bottom wearing scumbag!

49

Also, girls are far more likely to have been sexually abused + the vast majority of child sex offenders are male…sooooo…yeah, paedophiles with no morals, empathy, self-control are the problem here.

50

[quote]therajraj wrote:

[quote]Cortes wrote:

[quote]therajraj wrote:

[quote]Cortes wrote:

[quote]therajraj wrote:

Under the circumstances they are under, regularly alone around young boys for DECADES they eventually develop attraction. The same way it is not uncommon for a man who is heterosexual on the street to develop homosexual desires after YEARS of only being surrounded by men while incarcerated. like I said, human sexuality is a product of nature and environment.
[/quote]

Oh please. It is blindingly clear you don’t know the first thing about the Catholic Church so please stop talking as if you are some sort of authority.

Catholic priests are not cloistered monks. There are alter GIRLS as well as boys, and they are in contact with a vast number of women (from their parish) at any given time.

Seriously, I’m going to remember this the next time I read your “arguments.” You will just say whatever the fuck you think, regardless of its authenticity.

In the meantime, I’ll still be waiting for that evidence you must have seen to make such otherwise bald-faced libelous assertions.
[/quote]

And girls are also getting molested…approx 1/3 in of cases in Belgium are female.

Anyway, if you do not like my posts feel free to put me on ignore.

[/quote]

Yes, terribly, girls have been molested as well, but clearly not for the reasons you stated in the above post. Indeed that girls have also been molested makes your first statement look even more wrong.

If you want to come in an slander a group of mostly very good people with wholly unfounded supposition, don’t be surprised when you get called out on it. [/quote]

What do you feel is so slanderous about my posts?

I don’t think Catholics are bad people, I suggested the requirement for priests to stay celibate could play a factor in these sex abuse cases.

If I’m proven wrong, I’ll happily admit it and stop considering it a possibility.
[/quote]

Thing is, the lifetime celibacy = eventual Jeffrey Dahmer meme gets tossed around and used as a tool to defame Catholics and tear down the legitimacy of the priesthood everywhere. I can’t even imagine how many times I’ve seen it used here and even in the mainstream media as if it were a fact. Yet, there is no basis for this belief, NONE. If there is not one shred of evidence to point to the factuality of a certain matter, then using a such a statement as if it is self-evident is either dishonest or ignorant. Such statements are used almost exclusively as a rhetorical device that allows the user to defame his intended target when no other proper evidence is available.

I’ve seen it too many times and I’m personally sick of it. I was sick of it about a year ago and I actually started a thread about celibacy asking if anyone could point to any studies or evidence at all that celibacy leads to any sort of sexual disorder. Needless to say, no one was able to answer my request. Indeed, from my own studies, it appears that those most given to sexual disorders have the tendency to absolutely immerse themselves in pornography, masturbation, and a highly sexually active lifestyle. But you don’t hear about them because the biggest “sin” in our society today is anyone, ever, in any case, denying any indulgence or desire, no matter how twisted. Any anyone that tells you differently is just an intolerant bigot.

51

[quote]clip11 wrote:

[quote]therajraj wrote:

Given recent headlines, with the Catholic Church nationwide struggling with its worst sex scandal, you might easily assume these victims are boys and adolescent males – altar boys, perhaps, assaulted by pedophiles lurking beneath the collar.

They are victims, yes, but they are not boys at all. They are grown women, forced to live with a betrayal many misperceive to be borne almost exclusively by males.

Look again.

“Of the priests we’ve evaluated, more abuse girls than abuse boys,” says Gary Schoener, a Minneapolis psychologist and expert on clergy sexual abuse.

Despite media emphasis over the years on male victims – boys and men with horrific stories of their own – Schoener and other experts believe that troubled priests and other clergy are more likely to abuse females, especially adult women.

Sometimes their stories trickle out; more often, they do not.

Meanwhile, the number of male victims in a single parish can add up quickly, as one pedophile-priest may have unlimited access for a long period to boys on outings or other male-oriented church activities.

From this, big headlines are made.

“Everything’s always about the altar boys. It’s like nothing ever happened to the girls,” says Terrie Light of Castro Valley, West Coast regional director of SNAP, Survivors Network of Those Abused by Priests (survivorsnetwork.org).

Light was about 8 and attending church in the Oakland diocese when she went to the rectory looking for her mother. She was raped by the priest instead.

Now 50, she struggled emotionally for years – feeling “crazy and weird and defective.” There simply were no other stories about women.

“When I finally found other (abused) women, I started getting better,” she said. “I found out my story wasn’t all that uncommon.”

There are many explanations for the widespread misperception about victims of clergy abuse, though one of the most disturbing is this: the old “she asked for it.”

She must have seduced him. She made him sin.

The girl, however young, is cast as temptress.

Such was the logic played over and over to a Los Angeles woman, who became pregnant years ago after her priest and six other priests routinely had intercourse with her beginning when she was 16.

“As Catholics, we see priests even above angels,” said Rita Milla, who is now married with a second child. “To believe whatever they said had to be the right thing.”

After giving birth in the Philippines, where the priest had hidden her away, Milla returned with her child and eventually sued the church.

In 1991, the priest publicly apologized for seducing the teenager, but she did not win her lawsuit – in part, because it was filed too late. She had refused to settle, she said, because she would not agree to silence.

Yet even today, the courts are not always sympathetic to female victims.

Boys not only get more media coverage in clergy abuse cases, said Schoener, they also tend to get bigger verdicts. Homophobia, he believes, has been a “very, very powerful force.”

“In modern society, homosexual rape is considered a more heinous act,” said the psychologist, who is frequently an expert witness.

Ranking victims’ worthiness is the worst thing we can do – look no further than the bickering over the Sept. 11 fund. But overlooking a whole group of victims is right up there.

“There are a lot of women (victims) out there who believe they are alone and isolated and ‘special’ in a bad way,” says Light.

They are not, and that is the good news. For both sexes, it is also the bad.

Here is a link to more female sex abuse cases: News Stories about Female Victims of Clergy Sexual Abuse

[/quote]

Yeah some girls may have been abused, and nobody has said they weren’t. But you have to admit, most of those abused were teenage boys. Some studies say over 80% Catholic Church sexual abuse cases - Wikipedia. And trying to say they engage in homosexual acts, but they weren’t homosexual as long as they didn’t believe themselves to be homosexual, well, I could find less shit on a cow farm. So if im a paid assasin for a drug lord, then as long as I don’t believe myself to be a cold blooded killer, then im really a nice guy, right? Afterall, I believe im a nice guy, even though I murder people for a living.[/quote]

What is the makeup of sex of most alter servers while sex abuse was predominantely going on? Is it mostly boys? Mostly girls? 50/50?

These Priests have repressed sexual urges also hold a position of authority over alter servers and spend an inordinate time around them. Regardless of the sex of the alter servers, they choose to prey on them because they develop attraction overtime.

Edit: this is what I was suggesting originally, again not stating it as fact.

52

[quote]Cortes wrote:

[quote]therajraj wrote:

[quote]Cortes wrote:

[quote]therajraj wrote:
I think the problem stems from the fact Catholic priests are required to take a vow of celibacy.

After years of repressing their sexual desires they eventually snap are no longer able to resist. Why altar boys? Because Catholic priests are in a position of authority over them and at age 12-15 young boys still have features similar to girls.

Human sexuality is influenced by nature AND nurture IMO. The same way some men/women partake in homosexual activities only while incarcerated, Catholic priests only develop the urge to molest young boys because of the vow of celibacy leads to years of built up sexual tension. If the Catholic Church allowed priests to have consensual sexual relationships with women, much of this problem would go away IMO.

So no, I don’t consider this a homosexual problem.[/quote]

More recycled bullshit.

I challenge you to show me one study, ONE, that indicates that long term celibacy leads to any sort of sexual disorder.

When you can’t, you can stop repeating memes that support what you’ve already decided you believe and start maybe actually thinking for yourself.

One study. Shouldn’t be that hard.
[/quote]

This is my own thought, I’m not recycling shit.

No, I don’t have a study and I’m not claiming it to be a fact it is just my opinion on the topic. That’s why I started my sentence with “I think” and never stated this is a PROVEN FACT. I used the acronym “IMO” for a reason.
[/quote]

So, no studies or evidence? I thought so.

And no, it’s hardly your own thought. This is about the millionth time I’ve heard it now and I doubt you’ve been living in vacuum. You just happened to believe something that has absolutely NO empirical foundation of any kind, and it just happens to be the same exact thing I have heard from all varieties of Catholic haters for years now. Good that you recognize it is just an opinion, at least. Now, will you have the honesty to admit that you have NO basis for continuing to believe such a thing other than just wanting to?
[/quote]

No, I came to this thought after watching prison documentaries. They discussed examples of men who had no history of homosexuality on the street that engaged in homosexual behaviour behind bars. I came to this conclusion on my own.

53

[quote]Cortes wrote:

[quote]therajraj wrote:

[quote]Cortes wrote:

[quote]therajraj wrote:

[quote]Cortes wrote:

[quote]therajraj wrote:

Under the circumstances they are under, regularly alone around young boys for DECADES they eventually develop attraction. The same way it is not uncommon for a man who is heterosexual on the street to develop homosexual desires after YEARS of only being surrounded by men while incarcerated. like I said, human sexuality is a product of nature and environment.
[/quote]

Oh please. It is blindingly clear you don’t know the first thing about the Catholic Church so please stop talking as if you are some sort of authority.

Catholic priests are not cloistered monks. There are alter GIRLS as well as boys, and they are in contact with a vast number of women (from their parish) at any given time.

Seriously, I’m going to remember this the next time I read your “arguments.” You will just say whatever the fuck you think, regardless of its authenticity.

In the meantime, I’ll still be waiting for that evidence you must have seen to make such otherwise bald-faced libelous assertions.
[/quote]

And girls are also getting molested…approx 1/3 in of cases in Belgium are female.

Anyway, if you do not like my posts feel free to put me on ignore.

[/quote]

Yes, terribly, girls have been molested as well, but clearly not for the reasons you stated in the above post. Indeed that girls have also been molested makes your first statement look even more wrong.

If you want to come in an slander a group of mostly very good people with wholly unfounded supposition, don’t be surprised when you get called out on it. [/quote]

What do you feel is so slanderous about my posts?

I don’t think Catholics are bad people, I suggested the requirement for priests to stay celibate could play a factor in these sex abuse cases.

If I’m proven wrong, I’ll happily admit it and stop considering it a possibility.
[/quote]

Thing is, the lifetime celibacy = eventual Jeffrey Dahmer meme gets tossed around and used as a tool to defame Catholics and tear down the legitimacy of the priesthood everywhere. I can’t even imagine how many times I’ve seen it used here and even in the mainstream media as if it were a fact. Yet, there is no basis for this belief, NONE. If there is not one shred of evidence to point to the factuality of a certain matter, then using a such a statement as if it is self-evident is either dishonest or ignorant. Such statements are used almost exclusively as a rhetorical device that allows the user to defame his intended target when no other proper evidence is available.

I’ve seen it too many times and I’m personally sick of it. I was sick of it about a year ago and I actually started a thread about celibacy asking if anyone could point to any studies or evidence at all that celibacy leads to any sort of sexual disorder. Needless to say, no one was able to answer my request. Indeed, from my own studies, it appears that those most given to sexual disorders have the tendency to absolutely immerse themselves in pornography, masturbation, and a highly sexually active lifestyle. But you don’t hear about them because the biggest “sin” in our society today is anyone, ever, in any case, denying any indulgence or desire, no matter how twisted. Any anyone that tells you differently is just an intolerant bigot.
[/quote]

I don’t know how you could find a study applicable to this situation. How could you even find a group of people with normal sexual desires that will take a vow of celibacy for 10 years+?

54

[quote]therajraj wrote:

[quote]Cortes wrote:

[quote]therajraj wrote:

[quote]Cortes wrote:

[quote]therajraj wrote:

[quote]Cortes wrote:

[quote]therajraj wrote:

Under the circumstances they are under, regularly alone around young boys for DECADES they eventually develop attraction. The same way it is not uncommon for a man who is heterosexual on the street to develop homosexual desires after YEARS of only being surrounded by men while incarcerated. like I said, human sexuality is a product of nature and environment.
[/quote]

Oh please. It is blindingly clear you don’t know the first thing about the Catholic Church so please stop talking as if you are some sort of authority.

Catholic priests are not cloistered monks. There are alter GIRLS as well as boys, and they are in contact with a vast number of women (from their parish) at any given time.

Seriously, I’m going to remember this the next time I read your “arguments.” You will just say whatever the fuck you think, regardless of its authenticity.

In the meantime, I’ll still be waiting for that evidence you must have seen to make such otherwise bald-faced libelous assertions.
[/quote]

And girls are also getting molested…approx 1/3 in of cases in Belgium are female.

Anyway, if you do not like my posts feel free to put me on ignore.

[/quote]

Yes, terribly, girls have been molested as well, but clearly not for the reasons you stated in the above post. Indeed that girls have also been molested makes your first statement look even more wrong.

If you want to come in an slander a group of mostly very good people with wholly unfounded supposition, don’t be surprised when you get called out on it. [/quote]

What do you feel is so slanderous about my posts?

I don’t think Catholics are bad people, I suggested the requirement for priests to stay celibate could play a factor in these sex abuse cases.

If I’m proven wrong, I’ll happily admit it and stop considering it a possibility.
[/quote]

Thing is, the lifetime celibacy = eventual Jeffrey Dahmer meme gets tossed around and used as a tool to defame Catholics and tear down the legitimacy of the priesthood everywhere. I can’t even imagine how many times I’ve seen it used here and even in the mainstream media as if it were a fact. Yet, there is no basis for this belief, NONE. If there is not one shred of evidence to point to the factuality of a certain matter, then using a such a statement as if it is self-evident is either dishonest or ignorant. Such statements are used almost exclusively as a rhetorical device that allows the user to defame his intended target when no other proper evidence is available.

I’ve seen it too many times and I’m personally sick of it. I was sick of it about a year ago and I actually started a thread about celibacy asking if anyone could point to any studies or evidence at all that celibacy leads to any sort of sexual disorder. Needless to say, no one was able to answer my request. Indeed, from my own studies, it appears that those most given to sexual disorders have the tendency to absolutely immerse themselves in pornography, masturbation, and a highly sexually active lifestyle. But you don’t hear about them because the biggest “sin” in our society today is anyone, ever, in any case, denying any indulgence or desire, no matter how twisted. Any anyone that tells you differently is just an intolerant bigot.
[/quote]

I don’t know how you could find a study applicable to this situation. How could you even find a group of people with normal sexual desires that will take a vow of celibacy for 10 years+?

[/quote]

So your just going to think what you think, without a shred of evidence to back it up? Okay then.

55

[quote]therajraj wrote:

I don’t know how you could find a study applicable to this situation. How could you even find a group of people with normal sexual desires that will take a vow of celibacy for 10 years+?

[/quote]

So that means priests are repressed sexual deviants. Gotcha.

56

[quote]pat wrote:

[quote]therajraj wrote:

[quote]Cortes wrote:

[quote]therajraj wrote:

[quote]Cortes wrote:

[quote]therajraj wrote:

[quote]Cortes wrote:

[quote]therajraj wrote:

Under the circumstances they are under, regularly alone around young boys for DECADES they eventually develop attraction. The same way it is not uncommon for a man who is heterosexual on the street to develop homosexual desires after YEARS of only being surrounded by men while incarcerated. like I said, human sexuality is a product of nature and environment.
[/quote]

Oh please. It is blindingly clear you don’t know the first thing about the Catholic Church so please stop talking as if you are some sort of authority.

Catholic priests are not cloistered monks. There are alter GIRLS as well as boys, and they are in contact with a vast number of women (from their parish) at any given time.

Seriously, I’m going to remember this the next time I read your “arguments.” You will just say whatever the fuck you think, regardless of its authenticity.

In the meantime, I’ll still be waiting for that evidence you must have seen to make such otherwise bald-faced libelous assertions.
[/quote]

And girls are also getting molested…approx 1/3 in of cases in Belgium are female.

Anyway, if you do not like my posts feel free to put me on ignore.

[/quote]

Yes, terribly, girls have been molested as well, but clearly not for the reasons you stated in the above post. Indeed that girls have also been molested makes your first statement look even more wrong.

If you want to come in an slander a group of mostly very good people with wholly unfounded supposition, don’t be surprised when you get called out on it. [/quote]

What do you feel is so slanderous about my posts?

I don’t think Catholics are bad people, I suggested the requirement for priests to stay celibate could play a factor in these sex abuse cases.

If I’m proven wrong, I’ll happily admit it and stop considering it a possibility.
[/quote]

Thing is, the lifetime celibacy = eventual Jeffrey Dahmer meme gets tossed around and used as a tool to defame Catholics and tear down the legitimacy of the priesthood everywhere. I can’t even imagine how many times I’ve seen it used here and even in the mainstream media as if it were a fact. Yet, there is no basis for this belief, NONE. If there is not one shred of evidence to point to the factuality of a certain matter, then using a such a statement as if it is self-evident is either dishonest or ignorant. Such statements are used almost exclusively as a rhetorical device that allows the user to defame his intended target when no other proper evidence is available.

I’ve seen it too many times and I’m personally sick of it. I was sick of it about a year ago and I actually started a thread about celibacy asking if anyone could point to any studies or evidence at all that celibacy leads to any sort of sexual disorder. Needless to say, no one was able to answer my request. Indeed, from my own studies, it appears that those most given to sexual disorders have the tendency to absolutely immerse themselves in pornography, masturbation, and a highly sexually active lifestyle. But you don’t hear about them because the biggest “sin” in our society today is anyone, ever, in any case, denying any indulgence or desire, no matter how twisted. Any anyone that tells you differently is just an intolerant bigot.
[/quote]

I don’t know how you could find a study applicable to this situation. How could you even find a group of people with normal sexual desires that will take a vow of celibacy for 10 years+?

[/quote]

So your just going to think what you think, without a shred of evidence to back it up? Okay then. [/quote]

I think what I have stated is a definite possibility and could be a contributing factor.

IMO sexually can be effected by the conditions and environment one is under. I have stated why I believe this and feel it could translate into the childhood sex abuse cases.

If there is a stat to show most alter servers weren’t boys (or close to the rate of abuse of boys) while the most of th esex abuse cases were going on, I will admit what I suggested has little to no chance of being true.

Until then, why is it what I’m saying seem so far fetched to you guys?

57

[quote]therajraj wrote:

These Priests have repressed sexual urges also hold a position of authority over alter servers and spend an inordinate time around them. Regardless of the sex of the alter servers, they choose to prey on them because they develop attraction overtime.

Edit: this is what I was suggesting originally, again not stating it as fact.
[/quote]

And how, exactly, are the urges “repressed” when they are releasing them all the time?

You know all these priest’s private lives? You know they were NOT masturbating? Tapping their foot in bathroom stalls? Visiting bath houses nightly?

The one thing we DO know is that the worst of them were getting off all the damned time on underaged kids. That’s not exactly my understanding of “repression.”

58

[quote]Cortes wrote:

[quote]therajraj wrote:

I don’t know how you could find a study applicable to this situation. How could you even find a group of people with normal sexual desires that will take a vow of celibacy for 10 years+?

[/quote]

So that means priests are repressed sexual deviants. Gotcha. [/quote]

That’s not what I’m saying at all.

59

[quote]therajraj wrote:

[quote]pat wrote:

[quote]therajraj wrote:

[quote]Cortes wrote:

[quote]therajraj wrote:

[quote]Cortes wrote:

[quote]therajraj wrote:

[quote]Cortes wrote:

[quote]therajraj wrote:

Under the circumstances they are under, regularly alone around young boys for DECADES they eventually develop attraction. The same way it is not uncommon for a man who is heterosexual on the street to develop homosexual desires after YEARS of only being surrounded by men while incarcerated. like I said, human sexuality is a product of nature and environment.
[/quote]

Oh please. It is blindingly clear you don’t know the first thing about the Catholic Church so please stop talking as if you are some sort of authority.

Catholic priests are not cloistered monks. There are alter GIRLS as well as boys, and they are in contact with a vast number of women (from their parish) at any given time.

Seriously, I’m going to remember this the next time I read your “arguments.” You will just say whatever the fuck you think, regardless of its authenticity.

In the meantime, I’ll still be waiting for that evidence you must have seen to make such otherwise bald-faced libelous assertions.
[/quote]

And girls are also getting molested…approx 1/3 in of cases in Belgium are female.

Anyway, if you do not like my posts feel free to put me on ignore.

[/quote]

Yes, terribly, girls have been molested as well, but clearly not for the reasons you stated in the above post. Indeed that girls have also been molested makes your first statement look even more wrong.

If you want to come in an slander a group of mostly very good people with wholly unfounded supposition, don’t be surprised when you get called out on it. [/quote]

What do you feel is so slanderous about my posts?

I don’t think Catholics are bad people, I suggested the requirement for priests to stay celibate could play a factor in these sex abuse cases.

If I’m proven wrong, I’ll happily admit it and stop considering it a possibility.
[/quote]

Thing is, the lifetime celibacy = eventual Jeffrey Dahmer meme gets tossed around and used as a tool to defame Catholics and tear down the legitimacy of the priesthood everywhere. I can’t even imagine how many times I’ve seen it used here and even in the mainstream media as if it were a fact. Yet, there is no basis for this belief, NONE. If there is not one shred of evidence to point to the factuality of a certain matter, then using a such a statement as if it is self-evident is either dishonest or ignorant. Such statements are used almost exclusively as a rhetorical device that allows the user to defame his intended target when no other proper evidence is available.

I’ve seen it too many times and I’m personally sick of it. I was sick of it about a year ago and I actually started a thread about celibacy asking if anyone could point to any studies or evidence at all that celibacy leads to any sort of sexual disorder. Needless to say, no one was able to answer my request. Indeed, from my own studies, it appears that those most given to sexual disorders have the tendency to absolutely immerse themselves in pornography, masturbation, and a highly sexually active lifestyle. But you don’t hear about them because the biggest “sin” in our society today is anyone, ever, in any case, denying any indulgence or desire, no matter how twisted. Any anyone that tells you differently is just an intolerant bigot.
[/quote]

I don’t know how you could find a study applicable to this situation. How could you even find a group of people with normal sexual desires that will take a vow of celibacy for 10 years+?

[/quote]

So your just going to think what you think, without a shred of evidence to back it up? Okay then. [/quote]

I think what I have stated is a definite possibility and could be a contributing factor.

IMO sexually can be effected by the conditions and environment one is under. I have stated why I believe this and feel it could translate into the childhood sex abuse cases.

If there is a stat to show most alter servers weren’t boys (or close to the rate of abuse of boys) while the most of th esex abuse cases were going on, I will admit what I suggested has little to no chance of being true.

Until then, why is it what I’m saying seem so far fetched to you guys?

[/quote]

Because there is not a single shred of evidence to suggest this is the case, maybe?

What do you call that? Faith?

60

This is hardly the worst scandal the Catholic Church has ever faced. The reason celibate clergy arose was because of the moral turpitude of the clergy around the time of the reformation. In addition to the church not wanting to lose benefices and property, the threat of losing members of the faith to protestant newcomers was very real.

444 THE COUNCIL OF TRENT. issued, October 30th, a mandate especially directed against concubinary priests, in which he announced his intention of carrying out the reform commanded by Charles. He could find no reason more self-evident for the dislike and contempt felt by the people for so many of the clergy than the immorality of their lives, differing little, except in legality, from open marriage. " This vice, existing everywhere throughout our diocese, in consequence of the license of the times and the neglect of the officials, we must eradicate. Therefore all of you, of what grade soever, shall dismiss your concubines within nine days, removing them beyond the bounds of your parishes, and be no longer seen to associate with loose and wanton women. Those who neglect this order shall be suspended from office and benefice, their concubines shall be excommunicated, and they themselves be brought before our synod to be presently held."’ These were brave words, but when, some three weeks later, the synod was assembled, and the malefactors perchance brought before it, the good bishop found apparently that his flock was not disposed to submit quietly to the curtailment of privileges which had almost become imprescriptible. His tone accordingly was softened, for though he deprecated their immorality more strongly than ever, and asserted his intention of enforcing his mandate, he condescended to argue at much length on the propriety of chastity, and even descended to entreaty, beseeching them to preserve the purity so essential to the character of the church.2 How slender was his success may be inferred from the fact that the next year he felt it necessary to hold another synod, in which he renewed and confirmed the proceedings of the former one, and endeavored to reduce the monks and nuns of his diocese into some kind of subjection to the rules of discipline.3’ Synod. Trevirens. ann. 1548. misericors est), ut secundum hujus 2 Qui [illicitus sacerdotum. -.sanctissimae synodi decreturn, se ad 2 Qi [illicitus sacerdotum concu- integritatem totos convertant, poenibinatus] quantum jam inde ab initiotetatm totos conert, rorui apud omnes fidei Catholici cultores, teant, cpa m ecent eoris seconsecratis hominibus pepererit invi- am apuod. Trevirens. ann. 1548, d q c o i. v: cuturi.-Synod. Trevirens. ann. 1548, diae atque consciverit odii vix dici… potest… Illis nimirum abactis ejus-ca… modi incontinentiwe latrinis, pie con- 3 Synod. Trevirens. II. ann. 1549, sulimus (quoniam Deus benignus et cap. xi. xix.