Why Does Evil Exist?

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
21

[quote]forlife wrote:

[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
If we are talking about good and evil it is necessary to understand that people are neither good nor evil; rather it is the actions people take that are good or evil.
[/quote]

What is it about their actions that makes the actions good or evil?[/quote]

Because it is an ethical question. Ethics inherently refers to actions only.

And just let’s analyze the statement: He is evil.

How do we know? What are the measurements? This is a statement of

fact so we must have some way to be sure we are making a factual statement otherwise it is just nonsense.

Instead change the verb “to be” to “to do” and it is philosophically more correct: he does evil.

Now you just have to define what evil is. Ethics.

22

[quote]forlife wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]forlife wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]forlife wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
Evil isn’t a thing. It isn’t the opposite of good. Evil is the perversion of good. Good exists on it’s own, evil does not.

It’s kind of like light and dark. People think of them as opposites, but in truth, there is only light. Darkness isn?t a thing, it’s the lack of a thing.

God didn’t create evil, because evil isn?t a thing. He created good only, we perverted his good.
[/quote]

Is evil really just the absence of good? By that definition, a dead body would be evil because it isn’t good. Wouldn’t evil have to be more like actively fighting against the good?

Maybe less like light and darkness, and more like matter and anti-matter?[/quote]

No, I was claiming evil is the perversion of good. The light thing was a metaphor. Showing that they weren�??�??�?�¢??t opposites. And that only one exists.[/quote]

So you see evil as the perversion of good rather than the absence of good?

How then do you define good?
[/quote]

Good is self evident. It’s part of the universe, like gravity or matter.[/quote]

If that were the case, why would people disagree on what is good, even among different religions?[/quote]

People deny lots of things. Many are fairly universally agreed on though.

And though people may disagree on what is good, that is a separate argument. All those people still agree it exists.

Edit: People arguing about the rate of attraction due to gravity or some other nuance of it’s interation, doesn’t mean gravity itself isn’t self evident.

23

[quote]pat wrote:
Well I tried to create a new 'Why did God create satan" thread but it just won’t show up…I am going to wait a while to see if they do, I don’t want to make 6 of them. I have all ready tried 3.

I will begin my retort, by saying that it’s easy to say anything is possible, it’s a whole other to prove that something that isn’t possible is…[/quote]

Pat, I think you meant your post for the other marathon thread :wink:

While you’re here though, since I credited you in the OP, how about sharing your thoughts on what evil is and why it exists?

24

[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:

[quote]forlife wrote:

[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
If we are talking about good and evil it is necessary to understand that people are neither good nor evil; rather it is the actions people take that are good or evil.
[/quote]

What is it about their actions that makes the actions good or evil?[/quote]

Because it is an ethical question. Ethics inherently refers to actions only.

And just let’s analyze the statement: He is evil.

How do we know? What are the measurements? This is a statement of

fact so we must have some way to be sure we are making a factual statement otherwise it is just nonsense.

Instead change the verb “to be” to “to do” and it is philosophically more correct: he does evil.

Now you just have to define what evil is. Ethics.[/quote]

Your last sentence is what I was actually talking about. In your view, which actions are good, which are evil, and why?

25

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]Ben_VFR85 wrote:
In answer to the OP:

I do not believe evil exists. I believe the outcomes of actions are either favourable or not. The trick is to deal with all unfavourable situations with a stoic mind, for the more you concentrate on the negative, the more negative the situation is made.

In rejecting the possibility there is good or evil, the less stress you bring on yourself to make a choice, therefore the better choice you can make.[/quote]

How do you define favorable and unfavorable?

Sounds like you are playing semantics with yourself.[/quote]

Favourable would be something you think would help you achieve what you want. Unfavourable would obviously be something to hinder you in someway, but that doesn’t mean evil has been done.

I would admit that the first could be seen as “Good” for you, but not quite used in the same sense as “Good and Evil”. Just because something negative has happened in a situation doesn’t make it evil. Or bad. All you have is the present situation, and all you can do is look to improve it. I see no evil when a situation has gone somewhere I dont feel comfortable.

I’d say it all comes back to this definition of Evil.

26

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]forlife wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]forlife wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]forlife wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
Evil isn’t a thing. It isn’t the opposite of good. Evil is the perversion of good. Good exists on it’s own, evil does not.

It’s kind of like light and dark. People think of them as opposites, but in truth, there is only light. Darkness isn?t a thing, it’s the lack of a thing.

God didn’t create evil, because evil isn?t a thing. He created good only, we perverted his good.
[/quote]

Is evil really just the absence of good? By that definition, a dead body would be evil because it isn’t good. Wouldn’t evil have to be more like actively fighting against the good?

Maybe less like light and darkness, and more like matter and anti-matter?[/quote]

No, I was claiming evil is the perversion of good. The light thing was a metaphor. Showing that they weren�??�??�??�?�¢??t opposites. And that only one exists.[/quote]

So you see evil as the perversion of good rather than the absence of good?

How then do you define good?
[/quote]

Good is self evident. It’s part of the universe, like gravity or matter.[/quote]

If that were the case, why would people disagree on what is good, even among different religions?[/quote]

People deny lots of things. Many are fairly universally agreed on though.

And though people may disagree on what is good, that is a separate argument. All those people still agree it exists.

Edit: People arguing about the rate of attraction due to gravity or some other nuance of it’s interation, doesn’t mean gravity itself isn’t self evident.[/quote]

So you’re saying the existence of good is self-evident, but the definition of good can vary from one person to the next, although most agree on the core definition?

What would you say is that core definition, that most agree would differentiate good from evil?

27

[quote]Ben_VFR85 wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]Ben_VFR85 wrote:
In answer to the OP:

I do not believe evil exists. I believe the outcomes of actions are either favourable or not. The trick is to deal with all unfavourable situations with a stoic mind, for the more you concentrate on the negative, the more negative the situation is made.

In rejecting the possibility there is good or evil, the less stress you bring on yourself to make a choice, therefore the better choice you can make.[/quote]

How do you define favorable and unfavorable?

Sounds like you are playing semantics with yourself.[/quote]

Favourable would be something you think would help you achieve what you want. Unfavourable would obviously be something to hinder you in someway, but that doesn’t mean evil has been done.

I would admit that the first could be seen as “Good” for you, but not quite used in the same sense as “Good and Evil”. Just because something negative has happened in a situation doesn’t make it evil. Or bad. All you have is the present situation, and all you can do is look to improve it. I see no evil when a situation has gone somewhere I dont feel comfortable.

I’d say it all comes back to this definition of Evil.

I would not consider something that hinders you evil. It is a new situation and you can only treat i

[/quote]

So torture isn’t bad. If I were to injure or kill you on purpose, I didn’t do anything wrong?

28

If morality is only defined by one’s actions, what is the difference between the actions of a murderous lunatic and the actions of a coldly rational killer? Are both evil?

29

[quote]forlife wrote:

[quote]Ben_VFR85 wrote:
In answer to the OP:

I do not believe evil exists. I believe the outcomes of actions are either favourable or not. The trick is to deal with all unfavourable situations with a stoic mind, for the more you concentrate on the negative, the more negative the situation is made.

In rejecting the possibility there is good or evil, the less stress you bring on yourself to make a choice, therefore the better choice you can make.[/quote]

If evil doesn’t exist, what are your thoughts on laws and law enforcement?[/quote]

What are you asking?

Are you asking me if evil doesn’t exist, why have laws and do I follow them?

This is a loaded question which I feel isn’t on topic, however if you want to ask a specific question I dont mind answering.

30

[quote]forlife wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]forlife wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]forlife wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]forlife wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
Evil isn’t a thing. It isn’t the opposite of good. Evil is the perversion of good. Good exists on it’s own, evil does not.

It’s kind of like light and dark. People think of them as opposites, but in truth, there is only light. Darkness isn?t a thing, it’s the lack of a thing.

God didn’t create evil, because evil isn?t a thing. He created good only, we perverted his good.
[/quote]

Is evil really just the absence of good? By that definition, a dead body would be evil because it isn’t good. Wouldn’t evil have to be more like actively fighting against the good?

Maybe less like light and darkness, and more like matter and anti-matter?[/quote]

No, I was claiming evil is the perversion of good. The light thing was a metaphor. Showing that they weren�??�??�??�??�?�¢??t opposites. And that only one exists.[/quote]

So you see evil as the perversion of good rather than the absence of good?

How then do you define good?
[/quote]

Good is self evident. It’s part of the universe, like gravity or matter.[/quote]

If that were the case, why would people disagree on what is good, even among different religions?[/quote]

People deny lots of things. Many are fairly universally agreed on though.

And though people may disagree on what is good, that is a separate argument. All those people still agree it exists.

Edit: People arguing about the rate of attraction due to gravity or some other nuance of it’s interation, doesn’t mean gravity itself isn’t self evident.[/quote]

So you’re saying the existence of good is self-evident, but the definition of good can vary from one person to the next, although most agree on the core definition?

What would you say is that core definition, that most agree would differentiate good from evil?[/quote]

I’m not saying the definition varies, I’m saying people argue over it’s nuances in application. And that doesn’t suggest it isn’t self evident.

Hmâ?¦… defining itâ?¦…

It’s kind of like trying to define the color purple to a blind man. You just have to experience it.

Ultimately it is defined by the universe/it’s creator, the same way purple is.

31

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]Ben_VFR85 wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]Ben_VFR85 wrote:
In answer to the OP:

I do not believe evil exists. I believe the outcomes of actions are either favourable or not. The trick is to deal with all unfavourable situations with a stoic mind, for the more you concentrate on the negative, the more negative the situation is made.

In rejecting the possibility there is good or evil, the less stress you bring on yourself to make a choice, therefore the better choice you can make.[/quote]

How do you define favorable and unfavorable?

Sounds like you are playing semantics with yourself.[/quote]

Favourable would be something you think would help you achieve what you want. Unfavourable would obviously be something to hinder you in someway, but that doesn’t mean evil has been done.

I would admit that the first could be seen as “Good” for you, but not quite used in the same sense as “Good and Evil”. Just because something negative has happened in a situation doesn’t make it evil. Or bad. All you have is the present situation, and all you can do is look to improve it. I see no evil when a situation has gone somewhere I dont feel comfortable.

I’d say it all comes back to this definition of Evil.

I would not consider something that hinders you evil. It is a new situation and you can only treat i

[/quote]

So torture isn’t bad. If I were to injure or kill you on purpose, I didn’t do anything wrong?[/quote]

That would be wrong. So wrong is evil?

So we’re saying the definition of evil is the mindless, inconsiderate and damaging act against another?

32

[quote]Ben_VFR85 wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]Ben_VFR85 wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]Ben_VFR85 wrote:
In answer to the OP:

I do not believe evil exists. I believe the outcomes of actions are either favourable or not. The trick is to deal with all unfavourable situations with a stoic mind, for the more you concentrate on the negative, the more negative the situation is made.

In rejecting the possibility there is good or evil, the less stress you bring on yourself to make a choice, therefore the better choice you can make.[/quote]

How do you define favorable and unfavorable?

Sounds like you are playing semantics with yourself.[/quote]

Favourable would be something you think would help you achieve what you want. Unfavourable would obviously be something to hinder you in someway, but that doesn’t mean evil has been done.

I would admit that the first could be seen as “Good” for you, but not quite used in the same sense as “Good and Evil”. Just because something negative has happened in a situation doesn’t make it evil. Or bad. All you have is the present situation, and all you can do is look to improve it. I see no evil when a situation has gone somewhere I dont feel comfortable.

I’d say it all comes back to this definition of Evil.

I would not consider something that hinders you evil. It is a new situation and you can only treat i

[/quote]

So torture isn’t bad. If I were to injure or kill you on purpose, I didn’t do anything wrong?[/quote]

That would be wrong. So wrong is evil?

So we’re saying the definition of evil is the mindless, inconsiderate and damaging act against another?[/quote]

It doesn’t have to be against another. Most people do evil things to themselves.

How do you separate wrong and evil?

33

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]Ben_VFR85 wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]Ben_VFR85 wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]Ben_VFR85 wrote:
In answer to the OP:

I do not believe evil exists. I believe the outcomes of actions are either favourable or not. The trick is to deal with all unfavourable situations with a stoic mind, for the more you concentrate on the negative, the more negative the situation is made.

In rejecting the possibility there is good or evil, the less stress you bring on yourself to make a choice, therefore the better choice you can make.[/quote]

How do you define favorable and unfavorable?

Sounds like you are playing semantics with yourself.[/quote]

Favourable would be something you think would help you achieve what you want. Unfavourable would obviously be something to hinder you in someway, but that doesn’t mean evil has been done.

I would admit that the first could be seen as “Good” for you, but not quite used in the same sense as “Good and Evil”. Just because something negative has happened in a situation doesn’t make it evil. Or bad. All you have is the present situation, and all you can do is look to improve it. I see no evil when a situation has gone somewhere I dont feel comfortable.

I’d say it all comes back to this definition of Evil.

I would not consider something that hinders you evil. It is a new situation and you can only treat i

[/quote]

So torture isn’t bad. If I were to injure or kill you on purpose, I didn’t do anything wrong?[/quote]

That would be wrong. So wrong is evil?

So we’re saying the definition of evil is the mindless, inconsiderate and damaging act against another?[/quote]

It doesn’t have to be against another. Most people do evil things to themselves.

How do you separate wrong and evil?[/quote]

I think wrong becomes evil when self interest is involved.

34

Would you consider a gorilla killing another gorilla evil? Or an ant killing another… is that evil? You’d just say it was nature and thats what happens. Yet in human culture, it is seen as evil because why? We know better? Because we have a more complex language and we’re aware of the consequences of our actions? Possibly our ability to be empathetic and put ourselves in someone elses position means that when someone does an act that we would feel guilty of, that is evil?

35

[quote]Ben_VFR85 wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]Ben_VFR85 wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]Ben_VFR85 wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]Ben_VFR85 wrote:
In answer to the OP:

I do not believe evil exists. I believe the outcomes of actions are either favourable or not. The trick is to deal with all unfavourable situations with a stoic mind, for the more you concentrate on the negative, the more negative the situation is made.

In rejecting the possibility there is good or evil, the less stress you bring on yourself to make a choice, therefore the better choice you can make.[/quote]

How do you define favorable and unfavorable?

Sounds like you are playing semantics with yourself.[/quote]

Favourable would be something you think would help you achieve what you want. Unfavourable would obviously be something to hinder you in someway, but that doesn’t mean evil has been done.

I would admit that the first could be seen as “Good” for you, but not quite used in the same sense as “Good and Evil”. Just because something negative has happened in a situation doesn’t make it evil. Or bad. All you have is the present situation, and all you can do is look to improve it. I see no evil when a situation has gone somewhere I dont feel comfortable.

I’d say it all comes back to this definition of Evil.

I would not consider something that hinders you evil. It is a new situation and you can only treat i

[/quote]

So torture isn’t bad. If I were to injure or kill you on purpose, I didn’t do anything wrong?[/quote]

That would be wrong. So wrong is evil?

So we’re saying the definition of evil is the mindless, inconsiderate and damaging act against another?[/quote]

It doesn’t have to be against another. Most people do evil things to themselves.

How do you separate wrong and evil?[/quote]

I think wrong becomes evil when self interest is involved.
[/quote]

Isn’t that always? and didn’t you say you don’t believe in evil?

36

[quote]Ben_VFR85 wrote:

[quote]forlife wrote:

[quote]Ben_VFR85 wrote:
In answer to the OP:

I do not believe evil exists. I believe the outcomes of actions are either favourable or not. The trick is to deal with all unfavourable situations with a stoic mind, for the more you concentrate on the negative, the more negative the situation is made.

In rejecting the possibility there is good or evil, the less stress you bring on yourself to make a choice, therefore the better choice you can make.[/quote]

If evil doesn’t exist, what are your thoughts on laws and law enforcement?[/quote]

What are you asking?

Are you asking me if evil doesn’t exist, why have laws and do I follow them?

This is a loaded question which I feel isn’t on topic, however if you want to ask a specific question I dont mind answering.[/quote]

Yes. If murder isn’t evil, how is it just to punish someone for murder? What if it was “favourable” to kill the guy for his red sneakers?

37

[quote]Ben_VFR85 wrote:
Would you consider a gorilla killing another gorilla evil? Or an ant killing another… is that evil? You’d just say it was nature and thats what happens. Yet in human culture, it is seen as evil because why? We know better? Because we have a more complex language and we’re aware of the consequences of our actions? Possibly our ability to be empathetic and put ourselves in someone elses position means that when someone does an act that we would feel guilty of, that is evil?

[/quote]

Because that’s the rules of good and evil.

If we aren’t different, then you can’t believe humans have things like rights, can you? Believing in human rights means we are different. We alone have the capacity for good or bad.

38

Touche. Thanks for the discussion.

39

[quote]forlife wrote:

[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:

[quote]forlife wrote:

[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
If we are talking about good and evil it is necessary to understand that people are neither good nor evil; rather it is the actions people take that are good or evil.
[/quote]

What is it about their actions that makes the actions good or evil?[/quote]

Because it is an ethical question. Ethics inherently refers to actions only.

And just let’s analyze the statement: He is evil.

How do we know? What are the measurements? This is a statement of

fact so we must have some way to be sure we are making a factual statement otherwise it is just nonsense.

Instead change the verb “to be” to “to do” and it is philosophically more correct: he does evil.

Now you just have to define what evil is. Ethics.[/quote]

Your last sentence is what I was actually talking about. In your view, which actions are good, which are evil, and why?[/quote]

Evil are those actions that intentionally harm people.

Good are those actions that bring about goods.

40

What is evil? Well evil is something that primarily speaks to the human condition in terms of recipients. Evil is almost always an act of some sort. I would like to expand that definition to anything with conscious will can commit evil and receive evil.

I don’t believe God created evil, he created the capacity for it in free will. For what ever he bestowed freewill has the capacity to go against his will.
So I would describe evil as that which goes against God’s will. But if you are atheist, that doesn’t mean shit.

I do hate the problem of evil and I don’t pretend to understand it, but I hate it so much because it causes so much suffering to so many people that don’t deserve it.