Sorry but alot of my friends do muay thai… And what I’ve learned of them I use with my boxing, maybe a little even more. Have you ever been kicked in the head??? I have and it really hurts. The next morning is worse.
If you know how to kick well enough… You will keep balance.
If you don’t know how to kcik then don’t, but I suggest learning.
Muay thai bouts are fought against people who have experience throwing and grabbing kicks. And they still dont see them coming.
[quote]Westclock wrote:
what I have learned from brawling:
I learned quickly not to kick, your too off balance.
throwing head knocking haymakers has the same “off balance” affect and the wind up takes too long.
Tackling people almost always guarantees the win, but if hes got boys in the crowd your ruined, so its generally best to stay on your feet
Use your elbows, you need alot less space to deliver hits
The knees seem like a good weapon, but again in a mulitman brawl you need to be firmly planted on the ground. If you go down on the floor your heading to a hospital later.
Make a concious effort to keep your chin pointed down, it makes it hard to get you in the neck and it stiffens up your neck so it doesnt twist when you get hit.
Getting hit in the throat is an immediate game ender, you cant breathe, you cant fight.
Bones in your head are thicker than a fist, if they arent careful they will break knuckles and not your face.
Street brawling isnt like MMA, its alot more about defense than offense.
[/quote]
Lol the throat punch is so true. The first fight I got in as a bouncer I learned this. I was working the exit door and my buddy kicked this kid out, gave him a lil shove down about 5 stairs. As soon as the kid got to the bottom of the stairs he turned around and charged me. Now I aimed for his chin, but he stepped up right as I threw the punch and it landed right on the side of his neck. The kid just buckled, and laid on the ground clutching his neck in obvious pain, I really thought I paralyzed him or something lol, it was pretty scary.
It is possible to kill someone by punching them in the throat, due to swelling which causes constriction in the throat. There may also be damage to vocal cords or collapsing the windpipe.
However that does not mean to say that you meant to kill them…You would have to generate a great amount of force to do that.
Mind you medium force to the corotid sinus (side of the throat) is enough to deliver a knock out.
Main point I was trying to make is just not to end up with teeth in your knuckles. I watched the boys pick teeth out of my bf’s hands one night. yuck.
[quote]boxingash wrote:
Only thing i don’t totally agree with is that kicks are no good in a fight??? Like something out of Jackie Chan I saw a friend jump of a table and fly kick this guy who was on his mate… That guy fell down a set of stairs and didn’t get up… It’s alright he’s alive.
[/quote]
Its a risk/reward kind of thing, kicks are fine in a sparring fight I suppose, cant really comment Ive never been in a fight like that.
But a brawl is just that, about 10 drunk or tipsy guys from 2 crews going at it in a poorly lit area.
Theres no room, you dont have time to aim, your atleast mildy intoxicated and you dont need to do anything that makes it harder to balance, the best way to win is to not go down.
Its not so much about completely decimating the other guys, its about out lasting them, delivering more hits than you take until they go down or run.
Alot of guys go too hard too fast, waste all their energy and get over extended, its about staying clear headed and on your feet so that you can deliver when you need to.
Not everyone who gets into a pub fight is intoxicated.
Ever fought someone on pills? speed or coke?
In Australia alot of boys who train at the Bob Jones Corp used to, as part of their training, go out and pick fights so they learn to beat the shit out of someone other than their sparring partner.
A pub brawl often involves many people and if you dont decimate the first guy he’ll come back at you as soon as he comes to, while your on your third.
[quote]boxingash wrote:
Not everyone who gets into a pub fight is intoxicated.
Ever fought someone on pills? speed or coke?
In Australia alot of boys who train at the Bob Jones Corp used to, as part of their training, go out and pick fights so they learn to beat the shit out of someone other than their sparring partner.
A pub brawl often involves many people and if you dont decimate the first guy he’ll come back at you as soon as he comes to, while your on your third.
[/quote]
I dont usually frequent clubs, and I have never stopped to ask what people are on.
Im not a trained fighter, Im just a guy who fights in bars and alleys from time to time.
I dont kick because I cant deliver more damage with a kick than if I just threw a haymaker. Many guys can, many of these guys are my size or larger, Im not one of them.
A knockout punch, for me, is easier to recover from if I miss, and is certainly easier and quicker to aim. I have no reason to kick because if I can hit someone in the face or head with a wound up, full shoulder and waist rotation hit…
Hes not getting up.
For women I would assume the lower body is going to be much more developed, and hence kicks are much more useful.
I often find myself with no room to punch, much less kick, just my experience in the matter.
The only time I would even use a kick in a brawl is to kick someone in the groin. Outside of that I am no were near flexible or well versed enough to throw a damaging kick. I’m with westclock on this one.
[quote]blazindave wrote:
“It’s especially tough when you have a boxing background, because a big weapon for me is the straight left. If you do that without gloves, it can be seriously bad for your hands as far as breaking, also.”
I didn’t say board breaking. I said fucking bricks and fucking concrete slabs.
Don’t hit back?
You completely missed the point.
I’m talking about what kind of surface (how hard, dense, etc) your knuckles can hit.[/quote]
That’s great. And I still said that bricks don’t move when you go to hit them. Picking the knuckles that you’re going to hit someone with always seemed ridiculous to me, because if they move, you’ll hit them with the other ones and not your intended two knuckles. Bricks stay still. People’s faces don’t.
[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
That’s great. And I still said that bricks don’t move when you go to hit them. Picking the knuckles that you’re going to hit someone with always seemed ridiculous to me, because if they move, you’ll hit them with the other ones and not your intended two knuckles. Bricks stay still. People’s faces don’t.
[/quote]
I’m just curious I’ve heard about this optimal knuckle thing, but which are you supposed to hit with? A few years ago I threw a haymaker at a guys jaw and ended up fracturing my index finger knuckle. Boxers fracture is what I believe it was called. Are you supposed to hit with your ring and pinky knuckles or what?
[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
That’s great. And I still said that bricks don’t move when you go to hit them. Picking the knuckles that you’re going to hit someone with always seemed ridiculous to me, because if they move, you’ll hit them with the other ones and not your intended two knuckles. Bricks stay still. People’s faces don’t.
[/quote]
Have to agree with this one, I concentrate on using the top knuckles in my hand, but you dont usually get to pick.
If your going to brawl your going to bruise knuckles, it goes with the territory.
Ive hit people with my wrist bone area before hammer fist style and let me say, that hurts like a motherfucker.
[quote]waylanderxx wrote:
FightinIrish26 wrote:
That’s great. And I still said that bricks don’t move when you go to hit them. Picking the knuckles that you’re going to hit someone with always seemed ridiculous to me, because if they move, you’ll hit them with the other ones and not your intended two knuckles. Bricks stay still. People’s faces don’t.
I’m just curious I’ve heard about this optimal knuckle thing, but which are you supposed to hit with? A few years ago I threw a haymaker at a guys jaw and ended up fracturing my index finger knuckle. Boxers fracture is what I believe it was called. Are you supposed to hit with your ring and pinky knuckles or what?[/quote]
That’s odd, i broke my fifth metacarpal one time and the doc told me it was a boxer’s fracture also. Is the breaking of any bone in the hand considered the same thing?
And also, optimal depends on the punch but like Irish said you don’t really get to choose. I like to TRY and hit with the first two knuckles on straight punches and the whole fist with hooks (assuming the hand is verticle, if horizontal then the last three knuckles). The vertical fist for hooking feels safer to me in a bareknuckle fight.
To answer Corrosion’s question:
I think of those snakes that are harmless, but can wind their scales so they sound and look like rattlers. This scares off all but the keenest and/or the most serious predators. Deep down, a lot of these guys know they don’t have anything special in them as fighters. It’s just a way for them to score easy psychological victories over other guys who really don’t want the risk.
And I’m sure a lot of them get away with it. There simply aren’t that many trained individuals out there, and of those, there aren’t many I’ve met that are going to be bumping into Mr. Average Joe in a Tapout shirt at some shitty sportsbar on the weekend. This is starting to change with the rise of MMA in general (I can picture bumping into a lot of the recent TUF contestants in shitty sports bars) but it still holds enough, I think, for these idiots to “wear the mask.”
A note on fighting in general-- I have really enjoyed this thread and the back-and-forth on street fights. “Killer instinct” has been brought up briefly here and there, but I think when we’re talking about two untrained people, (which is the vast majority of “street” fights) an innate brutality combined with strength can handle most situations. Especially when one doesn’t bother with all of the preliminaries: when I see the modern American male ‘fight’ ritual where the two idiots talk shit in each other’s faces, then start shoving, then throw these ridiculous, flailing punches, I just shake my head.
It’s not violence; it’s posturing.
Throw your haymakers like this guy.
[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
And by the way, that’s not a boxer’s fracture. I think a boxer’s fracture is when you break one of the bones that connects the knuckle to your wrist.[/quote]
Well the knuckle that broke is the first knuckle on my right hand, the one on the index finger side that you actually hit with. Idk but my doc specifically said boxers fracture.
It’s funny b/c after I broke it, it like sank down into my hand. It actually scooted back a few centimeters, looks kinda weird when I make a fist.
[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
waylanderxx wrote:
FightinIrish26 wrote:
I do a lot of pushups on my knuckles on cement to harden them up and callous them over, but who knows how much that really works. I do them more because it makes my fist feel harder and more compact to me, if that makes sense. [/quote]
Weight bearing exercise involving any of your other bones strengthens them, so i don’t see why it wouldnt work for the bones in your hands. How effective that is at keeping your hand from breaking though, who knows.
[quote]AttackOfTheChris wrote:
FightinIrish26 wrote:
waylanderxx wrote:
FightinIrish26 wrote:
I do a lot of pushups on my knuckles on cement to harden them up and callous them over, but who knows how much that really works. I do them more because it makes my fist feel harder and more compact to me, if that makes sense.
Weight bearing exercise involving any of your other bones strengthens them, so i don’t see why it wouldnt work for the bones in your hands. How effective that is at keeping your hand from breaking though, who knows.
[/quote]
Not very, the bones themselves arent the problem so much as the knuckles are poorly supported compared to other bones, because they are a complex joint.
Having very strong hands will prevent them from breaking, squeeze tight and keeping them in line with the forearm bones will transfer some of the force down the arm’s thicker bones.
[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
Oh I got you.
That sounds terrible haha.[/quote]
yah . . . it felt good lol
[quote]Westclock wrote:
AttackOfTheChris wrote:
FightinIrish26 wrote:
waylanderxx wrote:
FightinIrish26 wrote:
I do a lot of pushups on my knuckles on cement to harden them up and callous them over, but who knows how much that really works. I do them more because it makes my fist feel harder and more compact to me, if that makes sense.
Weight bearing exercise involving any of your other bones strengthens them, so i don’t see why it wouldnt work for the bones in your hands. How effective that is at keeping your hand from breaking though, who knows.
Not very, the bones themselves arent the problem so much as the knuckles are poorly supported compared to other bones, because they are a complex joint.
Having very strong hands will prevent them from breaking, squeeze tight and keeping them in line with the forearm bones will transfer some of the force down the arm’s thicker bones.[/quote]
Good post sir. I never really did alot of knuckle pushups (unless told to by an instructor) or any strange hardening methods because it seemed like technique and strengthing of the wrist/hand was much more usefull.
[quote]waylanderxx wrote:
FightinIrish26 wrote:
Oh I got you.
That sounds terrible haha.
yah . . . it felt good lol[/quote]
Its not always a bad thing. My boyfriend did 16 years of muay thai and one of his knuckles ended up the same… he punches with that one without trying because it sticks out so far…
I think it creates callouses on the bone = heavier and thicker.
I couldn’t say which knuckles to punch with… most people swing differently… I know that when you throw a punch you want the flow of energy (generated force) to flow from you and into your opponent. Doesn’t always play out that way though…
Mine usually land pretty square (brilliant having female hips when it comes to swinging) I’d say the first three knuckles. One conditioning technique I used in tong long was to punch a sand bag on a brick wall… You’ll soon learn to punch straight doing that.
I’ve got a lump in my foot from where I broke bones in my feet kicking a house sharer (not a mate). He deserved it though… watched him high as a kite tackle his girlfriend after an argument in my own house.
[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
blazindave wrote:
“It’s especially tough when you have a boxing background, because a big weapon for me is the straight left. If you do that without gloves, it can be seriously bad for your hands as far as breaking, also.”
I didn’t say board breaking. I said fucking bricks and fucking concrete slabs.
Don’t hit back?
You completely missed the point.
I’m talking about what kind of surface (how hard, dense, etc) your knuckles can hit.
That’s great. And I still said that bricks don’t move when you go to hit them. Picking the knuckles that you’re going to hit someone with always seemed ridiculous to me, because if they move, you’ll hit them with the other ones and not your intended two knuckles. Bricks stay still. People’s faces don’t.
[/quote]
I got that. I usually don’t have a problem hitting a moving target with my first two knuckles. This includes real fights and sparring.
shrug
Oh well.