Why Do People Care?

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
61

[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:
The best believers can do, I’m noticing, is make arguments from ignorance.

Where do rights come from? How did the universe come into being?

Clearly what I believe in (An omnipotent wizard man up in the sky) must be the right answer, because it explains everything! [/quote]

Good gosh, this is ridiculous. Can I make up what your argument and beliefs are the same way you are doing with me?

I have yet to make an argument from ignorance. I haven’t even argued anything really. All I have done is question you about your argument.

But I do agree with your argument that you are one of the more ignorant people in the world.

62

I’m curious for those that do not believe in a creator how do you explain nature? What I mean is for example some people believe in the cell theory/evolution therefore trees came from an original cell and so on and so forth. Is this how everyone feels (excluding those who believe in creation of course)?

If the above is the case then where did the original cell come from? I’m actually very curious as to people’s thoughts on this and am not at all interested in arguing.

Chris

63

[quote]pat wrote:

[quote]Deorum wrote:
The day Christians stop raping my neighbors with their ridiculous notions I shall stop caring. If you want to preach your religion to my people I will preach the flaws of your religion, so that they may decide their religion seeing both sides of the argument. A better question is why can you not accept criticism of your religion? Is your religion not perfect? It should hold up to any criticism… But it doesn’t, does it?

Furthermore is it really that hard to believe that somebody might actually be fighting for your benefit? To break the mental chains you have placed on yourselves? Is that really so hard to swallow? Why do I care enough to try and do such a thing? If that is the question then I must admit I do not know, my-damn-self, half the time.

Maybe, however, just maybe I have a strong hate for your religion. Maybe I have seen what it can do to ones mind FIRSTHAND. Maybe I have lived your religion for some time - indoctrinated from birth. Maybe I had to fight the struggle of breaking its horrible chains all by myself - Maybe I know how hard that is. Maybe I realize that most people will never win that struggle alone. Maybe I have seen what it does to my close family. Maybe I have seen their illogical and self detrimental responses to the world based on their religious beliefs. Maybe I do hate your religion…[/quote]

AND we are trusted enough to pump our own gas.[/quote]

And to fuck your own cousins…

64

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
I’m curious for those that do not believe in a creator how do you explain nature? What I mean is for example some people believe in the cell theory/evolution therefore trees came from an original cell and so on and so forth. Is this how everyone feels (excluding those who believe in creation of course)?

If the above is the case then where did the original cell come from? I’m actually very curious as to people’s thoughts on this and am not at all interested in arguing.

Chris [/quote]

I dont know and I dont care enough to grasp for any straw that doesn not seem extremely implausible at first glance.

65

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

I have no clue what your beliefs are, but the Catholic faith (and I would say partially that which was held by most Americas before the 60’s as well) are definitely superior to others. [/quote]

THIS IS WHY WE CARE. STATEMENTS AND ATTITUDES EXPRESSED ABOVE. Thank you for unintentionally answering the OP.

66

[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
Hell, for that matter, why don’t you prove “nature” exists, since you believe in that.[/quote]

… you want me to… prove that nature exists.

You… seriously I…

Ok. You win. This just got too stupid. I can’t keep up with someone who demands that I prove the existence of nature. Too much man, too much.[/quote]

No, I don’t expect you to prove anything. Because existence isn’t provable.

And once again, you dodge the question.[/quote]

Once again, you ask a question that you can be reasonably sure I can’t answer, so that you can claim your answer is better.

You ask me to explain where natural rights come from. I don’t know.

This will, of course, lead you, in the typical Sky-Wizard-believing way to shout “YOU DONT KNOW AND I DO! I WIN!”

So, I responded by pointing out that your methodology is bad, and you try to claim that I’m “Dodging the question”.

So, here you go: I dont know where rights come from exactly.

I do know that Sky Wizard, God, Yahweh, Zeus, Krishna, Allah, and all the other Sky People do not exist, so I know none of those are the answer.

But, of course, your point is: Since Cappedandplanit doesn’t know where rights come from, they must come from God, and God must exist.

Right?[/quote]

The idea of “natural rights” almost certainly evolved from our earliest social structures where cooperation was a necessity for survival. You certainly could not have even the most primitive tribe without respecting the rights of its members. Our notion of “natural rights” almost certainly were spawned by our earliest social conditions.

I’m wandering in the wilderness, a nomad, and I come across you and we follow each other a bit. We soon discover that together, we are safer, we can gather food more easily, etc. So what do I do? Kill you? Or did I stumble upon some early version of the bible that described our respective rights?

It’s a social animal.

67

I say fuck it and lets all go back to animism :slight_smile: Now… if I could only get my computer’s spirit to be more cooperative…

68

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

Define natural rights without god. [/quote]

Thats easy. Natural rights without god- You are born and die just like every other animal on earth, and any one or any thing can be taken from you at any moment by any one or anything that is able, with out notice or recourse, up to and including your life. You are free to do the same as you see fit.

Seem about right?

69

[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:

Wow. I think you’re in the running for worst piece of shit on T-Nation with this post. Certainly giving Zeb a run for his money.

So let me get this straight - I need to “shut the fuck up” unless I gather hundreds of thousands (millions?) of like minded people, “lay claim” to a place rich with resources, and build my own country?

You realize how much of an idiot this makes you, right?

Oh, oh. And the claim that this ridiculous fantasy has any relation to how the United States of America came about.

Yup. All the founding fathers just got together (nevermind the involvement of major world powers like Spain, Great Britian, France, etc) and “up and decided” to build their own country. Then they “laid claim” to a place rich with resources… certainly the place wasnt already populated with an indigenous… oh, wait. And since they were all “like minded”, there wasnt any major civil wa…oh, wait.

I guess every bit of actual American history is false - your nonsense fantasy that America is the result of “a bunch of like minded individuals just up and decided to make a country!” is clearly the truth.

And I’d best “STFU” unless I’m going to do the same. LOL

Serously. That fire. Please, go die in it.[/quote]

Ooh! Going low with the name calling? O.K. I guess you would know pieces of shit, after all, you are the one looking for love in the asses of men.

Whiny Bitch. Go get married! Oh thats right, you can’t, cause you are a homo. Oh well, at least you can wear a fancy dress and pretend to be a girl.

(have I dethroned Zeb?)

70

[quote]SkyzykS wrote:

Ooh! Going low with the name calling? O.K. I guess you would know pieces of shit, after all, you are the one looking for love in the asses of men.

[/quote]

Seems appropriate.

71

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]SkyzykS wrote:

Ooh! Going low with the name calling? O.K. I guess you would know pieces of shit, after all, you are the one looking for love in the asses of men.

[/quote]

Seems appropriate.[/quote]

Ah hahaha! Damn. I was considering that one for musical accompaniment, but declined due to sheer laziness.

Thank you.

72

[quote]SkyzykS wrote:

[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:

Wow. I think you’re in the running for worst piece of shit on T-Nation with this post. Certainly giving Zeb a run for his money.

So let me get this straight - I need to “shut the fuck up” unless I gather hundreds of thousands (millions?) of like minded people, “lay claim” to a place rich with resources, and build my own country?

You realize how much of an idiot this makes you, right?

Oh, oh. And the claim that this ridiculous fantasy has any relation to how the United States of America came about.

Yup. All the founding fathers just got together (nevermind the involvement of major world powers like Spain, Great Britian, France, etc) and “up and decided” to build their own country. Then they “laid claim” to a place rich with resources… certainly the place wasnt already populated with an indigenous… oh, wait. And since they were all “like minded”, there wasnt any major civil wa…oh, wait.

I guess every bit of actual American history is false - your nonsense fantasy that America is the result of “a bunch of like minded individuals just up and decided to make a country!” is clearly the truth.

And I’d best “STFU” unless I’m going to do the same. LOL

Serously. That fire. Please, go die in it.[/quote]

Ooh! Going low with the name calling? O.K. I guess you would know pieces of shit, after all, you are the one looking for love in the asses of men.

Whiny Bitch. Go get married! Oh thats right, you can’t, cause you are a homo. Oh well, at least you can wear a fancy dress and pretend to be a girl.

(have I dethroned Zeb?)
[/quote]

Your lines are a bit blurry. Are you actually under the impression that I’m a homosexual?

73

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
Hell, for that matter, why don’t you prove “nature” exists, since you believe in that.[/quote]

… you want me to… prove that nature exists.

You… seriously I…

Ok. You win. This just got too stupid. I can’t keep up with someone who demands that I prove the existence of nature. Too much man, too much.[/quote]

No, I don’t expect you to prove anything. Because existence isn’t provable.

And once again, you dodge the question.[/quote]

Once again, you ask a question that you can be reasonably sure I can’t answer, so that you can claim your answer is better.

You ask me to explain where natural rights come from. I don’t know.

This will, of course, lead you, in the typical Sky-Wizard-believing way to shout “YOU DONT KNOW AND I DO! I WIN!”

So, I responded by pointing out that your methodology is bad, and you try to claim that I’m “Dodging the question”.

So, here you go: I dont know where rights come from exactly.

I do know that Sky Wizard, God, Yahweh, Zeus, Krishna, Allah, and all the other Sky People do not exist, so I know none of those are the answer.

But, of course, your point is: Since Cappedandplanit doesn’t know where rights come from, they must come from God, and God must exist.

Right?[/quote]

First, quit guessing at what I will say and arguing against what you are guessing at. It’s pretty dumb.

Natural rights aren’t logical, they aren’t reasonable, you don’t know where they come from, you can’t even define them, but yet you believe in them? And I’m dumb for believing in god?

And yes it is dodging the question when you refuse to even define terms in your argument.[/quote]

When did we talk about if natural rights are logical?
When did we talk about if natural rights are reasonable?

I dont know “where they come from” in the sense of being able to explain the exact reason each and every right, both individually, and as a whole, exists. I could easily say “They come from nature” - but that would tell you nothing (the same way “they come from god” does).

I dont have a comprehensive definition. Natural rights are the rights we have.

I do like TBG’s comment about rights being a social structure designed to protect us (and yes, that means rights come from humans, which still means they are natural rights because humans are part of nature).

You’re wildly incorrect to say that I can’t define them, just that I havent spent a significant amount of time coming up with an exact definition.

Yes, believing in God is dumb. Seriously, dude, cut the shit - you really think theres an omnipotent benevolent creator watching everything all the time? One that once spoke to people, set bushes on fire, parted seas, sent plagues… and now refuses to prove himself? You dont think its funny that the bible tells all these stories of God giving clear, unavoidable proof of his existence… yet now that same God, who stopped the sun and the moon during a battle, refuses to show himself, knowing that such proof would put an end to all of the murderous religious conflicts in the world?

74

[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:

Your lines are a bit blurry. Are you actually under the impression that I’m a homosexual?[/quote]

Are you actually under the impression that you aren’t?

75

[quote]SkyzykS wrote:

[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:

Your lines are a bit blurry. Are you actually under the impression that I’m a homosexual?[/quote]

Are you actually under the impression that you aren’t?
[/quote]

My girlfriend is.

76

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
I’m curious for those that do not believe in a creator how do you explain nature? What I mean is for example some people believe in the cell theory/evolution therefore trees came from an original cell and so on and so forth. Is this how everyone feels (excluding those who believe in creation of course)?

If the above is the case then where did the original cell come from? I’m actually very curious as to people’s thoughts on this and am not at all interested in arguing.

Chris [/quote]

I don’t know. I can’t explain nature. Why do you ask?

77

[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:

[quote]SkyzykS wrote:

[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:

Your lines are a bit blurry. Are you actually under the impression that I’m a homosexual?[/quote]

Are you actually under the impression that you aren’t?
[/quote]

My girlfriend is.[/quote]

Right. Now you’ll try to convince us that you are totally straight.

Good luck with that.

78

[quote]SkyzykS wrote:

[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:

[quote]SkyzykS wrote:

[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:

Your lines are a bit blurry. Are you actually under the impression that I’m a homosexual?[/quote]

Are you actually under the impression that you aren’t?
[/quote]

My girlfriend is.[/quote]

Right. Now you’ll try to convince us that you are totally straight.

Good luck with that.

[/quote]

lol. I have to admit I dont know if you’re seriously under the impression I’m gay or just trying to out-fuckwit Zeb.

79

I’m kinda getting the vibe that you two are flirting with each other.

80

[quote]MattyG35 wrote:
I’m kinda getting the vibe that you two are flirting with each other.[/quote]

It’s the whole ZEB and Forlife romance all over again. Hating each other one moment, inseparable the next. Awww… :wink:

Makkun

PS: I think the thread has established that people do care - not much why though…