[quote]MattyG35 wrote:
This is getting into lol territory[/quote]
I hope so. The Academy Awards were on and I was bored out of my freakin mind.
Really though, I bet ole Cappn planet up there isn’t even politically active locally, but wants to bitch about the work of people who had the balls and ability to start their own freakin country.
Typical wannabe intellectuals in this thread. Motor mouth with lead in their asses.
[/quote]
Wow. I think you’re in the running for worst piece of shit on T-Nation with this post. Certainly giving Zeb a run for his money.
So let me get this straight - I need to “shut the fuck up” unless I gather hundreds of thousands (millions?) of like minded people, “lay claim” to a place rich with resources, and build my own country?
You realize how much of an idiot this makes you, right?
Oh, oh. And the claim that this ridiculous fantasy has any relation to how the United States of America came about.
Yup. All the founding fathers just got together (nevermind the involvement of major world powers like Spain, Great Britian, France, etc) and “up and decided” to build their own country. Then they “laid claim” to a place rich with resources… certainly the place wasnt already populated with an indigenous… oh, wait. And since they were all “like minded”, there wasnt any major civil wa…oh, wait.
I guess every bit of actual American history is false - your nonsense fantasy that America is the result of “a bunch of like minded individuals just up and decided to make a country!” is clearly the truth.
And I’d best “STFU” unless I’m going to do the same. LOL
[quote]MattyG35 wrote:
This is getting into lol territory[/quote]
I hope so. The Academy Awards were on and I was bored out of my freakin mind.
Really though, I bet ole Cappn planet up there isn’t even politically active locally, but wants to bitch about the work of people who had the balls and ability to start their own freakin country.
Typical wannabe intellectuals in this thread. Motor mouth with lead in their asses.
[/quote]
You keep talking about the people that “had the balls and ability to start their own freakin country.” You do realize that the founders would have come down on the side of people wishing to keep religion out of politics, right? They were almost universally Deists and Agnostics. The Jefferson Bible–the publication of which would today be seen as sacrilegious–consisted of the New Testament minus all supernatural bullshit: no angels, no Trinity, no resurrection,no prophecies.
The Founders were Enlightenment thinkers, and the Enlightenment was the enemy of the Church. They championed reason and distrusted faith.[/quote]
Yeah, says you. You may also want to consider that enlightenment and faith are not mutually exclusive.
Also, if what you hypothesize is true, how did these christian values that people are so hung up on, like “In God We Trust” printed on our money, show up in this “enlightened” groups documents?
Maybe these enlightened people saw a higher social function of faith than the understanding that is being expressed in this thread? Like striving to become something better, being part of a greater good, or a myriad of other socially redeeming values that are woven through christianity and the documents that established the U.S. as a soveriegn nation.[/quote]
Says me and reputable historians. Christianity is not woven through the founding documents–I repeat that the Founders were almost exclusively Deists. Do you know what that means?
And as for “how did these christian values that people are so hung up on, like ‘In God We Trust’ printed on our money, show up in this “enlightened” groups documents?”–It never showed up in their documents you fucking cretin, it was first printed on coins in the US a century after the Revolution. Read a fucking book.
[quote]MattyG35 wrote:
This is getting into lol territory[/quote]
I hope so. The Academy Awards were on and I was bored out of my freakin mind.
Really though, I bet ole Cappn planet up there isn’t even politically active locally, but wants to bitch about the work of people who had the balls and ability to start their own freakin country.
Typical wannabe intellectuals in this thread. Motor mouth with lead in their asses.
[/quote]
You keep talking about the people that “had the balls and ability to start their own freakin country.” You do realize that the founders would have come down on the side of people wishing to keep religion out of politics, right? They were almost universally Deists and Agnostics. The Jefferson Bible–the publication of which would today be seen as sacrilegious–consisted of the New Testament minus all supernatural bullshit: no angels, no Trinity, no resurrection,no prophecies.
The Founders were Enlightenment thinkers, and the Enlightenment was the enemy of the Church. They championed reason and distrusted faith.[/quote]
Yeah, says you. You may also want to consider that enlightenment and faith are not mutually exclusive.
Also, if what you hypothesize is true, how did these christian values that people are so hung up on, like “In God We Trust” printed on our money, show up in this “enlightened” groups documents?
Maybe these enlightened people saw a higher social function of faith than the understanding that is being expressed in this thread? Like striving to become something better, being part of a greater good, or a myriad of other socially redeeming values that are woven through christianity and the documents that established the U.S. as a soveriegn nation.[/quote]
Says me and reputable historians. Christianity is not woven through the founding documents–I repeat that the Founders were almost exclusively Deists. Do you know what that means?
And as for “how did these christian values that people are so hung up on, like ‘In God We Trust’ printed on our money, show up in this “enlightened” groups documents?”–It never showed up in their documents you fucking cretin, it was first printed on coins in the US a century after the Revolution. Read a fucking book.
[/quote]
Dont overwhelm the boy with actual facts. His fantasies are much more comfortable.
Hell, if you want to debate history, you have to build a time machine and go back and take video. Until then STFU.
[quote]MattyG35 wrote:
This is getting into lol territory[/quote]
I hope so. The Academy Awards were on and I was bored out of my freakin mind.
Really though, I bet ole Cappn planet up there isn’t even politically active locally, but wants to bitch about the work of people who had the balls and ability to start their own freakin country.
Typical wannabe intellectuals in this thread. Motor mouth with lead in their asses.
[/quote]
You keep talking about the people that “had the balls and ability to start their own freakin country.” You do realize that the founders would have come down on the side of people wishing to keep religion out of politics, right? They were almost universally Deists and Agnostics. The Jefferson Bible–the publication of which would today be seen as sacrilegious–consisted of the New Testament minus all supernatural bullshit: no angels, no Trinity, no resurrection,no prophecies.
The Founders were Enlightenment thinkers, and the Enlightenment was the enemy of the Church. They championed reason and distrusted faith.[/quote]
Yeah, says you. You may also want to consider that enlightenment and faith are not mutually exclusive.
Also, if what you hypothesize is true, how did these christian values that people are so hung up on, like “In God We Trust” printed on our money, show up in this “enlightened” groups documents?
Maybe these enlightened people saw a higher social function of faith than the understanding that is being expressed in this thread? Like striving to become something better, being part of a greater good, or a myriad of other socially redeeming values that are woven through christianity and the documents that established the U.S. as a soveriegn nation.[/quote]
Says me and reputable historians. Christianity is not woven through the founding documents–I repeat that the Founders were almost exclusively Deists. Do you know what that means?
And as for “how did these christian values that people are so hung up on, like ‘In God We Trust’ printed on our money, show up in this “enlightened” groups documents?”–It never showed up in their documents you fucking cretin, it was first printed on coins in the US a century after the Revolution. Read a fucking book.
[/quote]
Dont overwhelm the boy with actual facts. His fantasies are much more comfortable.
Hell, if you want to debate history, you have to build a time machine and go back and take video. Until then STFU.[/quote]
Most of this stuff the anti-christians are posting here is utter BS. Some of you don’t seem to know much about either biblical teachings OR what typical Christians believe. There are really too many dumb claims made here to go through and contradict them all, suffice to say that when someone is deeply against someone’s opinion and they make some statement about “what such and such believes” it’s generally an ignorant statement.
The tricky part with the founding of the country is that there is a spiritual tone and reasoning to the founding of the country, there is not, however, a strictly religious one.
It is difficult to put the founding fathers into specific religions or denominations because frankly they either didn’t attached themselves to one, or the sects they did don’t translate into today’s terminology.
Many did regularly attend church. Some where indeed Christian, just not in the normal way we think of Christians today. BUT the one definite thing that can be said is that they all believed in god. Not only did they believe in him, but he is the sole basic justification for everything they did from the revolution through the constitution and the bill of rights.
They all got together and decided that they had a duty to break from England, found a new nation, and codify the rights of man because they felt these things were god given.
Without god there is no founding of the nation, at least not as we know it, because there is no justification for what they did. There is no argument for the natural (god given) rights of man.
The truth is that if you remove god from the equation you remove “inalienable rights”.
You guys may not like it, but god is fundamental to this nation. It’s why there are references to god on currency and in the pledge and such.
If you remove the god given rights of man from this country, what are you proposing to replace it with?
[quote]MattyG35 wrote:
This is getting into lol territory[/quote]
I hope so. The Academy Awards were on and I was bored out of my freakin mind.
Really though, I bet ole Cappn planet up there isn’t even politically active locally, but wants to bitch about the work of people who had the balls and ability to start their own freakin country.
Typical wannabe intellectuals in this thread. Motor mouth with lead in their asses.
[/quote]
You keep talking about the people that “had the balls and ability to start their own freakin country.” You do realize that the founders would have come down on the side of people wishing to keep religion out of politics, right? They were almost universally Deists and Agnostics. The Jefferson Bible–the publication of which would today be seen as sacrilegious–consisted of the New Testament minus all supernatural bullshit: no angels, no Trinity, no resurrection,no prophecies.
The Founders were Enlightenment thinkers, and the Enlightenment was the enemy of the Church. They championed reason and distrusted faith.[/quote]
Yeah, says you. You may also want to consider that enlightenment and faith are not mutually exclusive.
Also, if what you hypothesize is true, how did these christian values that people are so hung up on, like “In God We Trust” printed on our money, show up in this “enlightened” groups documents?
Maybe these enlightened people saw a higher social function of faith than the understanding that is being expressed in this thread? Like striving to become something better, being part of a greater good, or a myriad of other socially redeeming values that are woven through christianity and the documents that established the U.S. as a soveriegn nation.[/quote]
Says me and reputable historians. Christianity is not woven through the founding documents–I repeat that the Founders were almost exclusively Deists. Do you know what that means?
And as for “how did these christian values that people are so hung up on, like ‘In God We Trust’ printed on our money, show up in this “enlightened” groups documents?”–It never showed up in their documents you fucking cretin, it was first printed on coins in the US a century after the Revolution. Read a fucking book.
[/quote]
Dont overwhelm the boy with actual facts. His fantasies are much more comfortable.
Hell, if you want to debate history, you have to build a time machine and go back and take video. Until then STFU.[/quote]
Most of this stuff the anti-christians are posting here is utter BS. Some of you don’t seem to know much about either biblical teachings OR what typical Christians believe. There are really too many dumb claims made here to go through and contradict them all, suffice to say that when someone is deeply against someone’s opinion and they make some statement about “what such and such believes” it’s generally an ignorant statement.
The tricky part with the founding of the country is that there is a spiritual tone and reasoning to the founding of the country, there is not, however, a strictly religious one.
It is difficult to put the founding fathers into specific religions or denominations because frankly they either didn’t attached themselves to one, or the sects they did don’t translate into today’s terminology.
Many did regularly attend church. Some where indeed Christian, just not in the normal way we think of Christians today. BUT the one definite thing that can be said is that they all believed in god. Not only did they believe in him, but he is the sole basic justification for everything they did from the revolution through the constitution and the bill of rights.
They all got together and decided that they had a duty to break from England, found a new nation, and codify the rights of man because they felt these things were god given.
Without god there is no founding of the nation, at least not as we know it, because there is no justification for what they did. There is no argument for the natural (god given) rights of man.
The truth is that if you remove god from the equation you remove “inalienable rights”.
You guys may not like it, but god is fundamental to this nation. It’s why there are references to god on currency and in the pledge and such.
If you remove the god given rights of man from this country, what are you proposing to replace it with?
[/quote]
Yeah? They just up and decided they needed to break away from England? Or was the country founded with the help of England (and several other established nations) before independence was declared?
Because thats a super far cry from “Round up a group of people and build your own country.”, don’tcha think?
“The truth is that if you remove god from the equation you remove “inalienable rights”.”
translated: Sky Wizard gave us our rights, if you dont believe in Sky Wizard, you must not believe our rights exist.
compare: Leprechauns make trees. If you don’t believe in leprechauns, you must not believe trees exist either.
“If you remove the god given rights of man from this country, what are you proposing to replace it with?”
You keep the rights and forget the part where people assume some retarded amalgam of Zeus and Yahweh “gave” them to us.
[quote]MattyG35 wrote:
This is getting into lol territory[/quote]
I hope so. The Academy Awards were on and I was bored out of my freakin mind.
Really though, I bet ole Cappn planet up there isn’t even politically active locally, but wants to bitch about the work of people who had the balls and ability to start their own freakin country.
Typical wannabe intellectuals in this thread. Motor mouth with lead in their asses.
[/quote]
You keep talking about the people that “had the balls and ability to start their own freakin country.” You do realize that the founders would have come down on the side of people wishing to keep religion out of politics, right? They were almost universally Deists and Agnostics. The Jefferson Bible–the publication of which would today be seen as sacrilegious–consisted of the New Testament minus all supernatural bullshit: no angels, no Trinity, no resurrection,no prophecies.
The Founders were Enlightenment thinkers, and the Enlightenment was the enemy of the Church. They championed reason and distrusted faith.[/quote]
Yeah, says you. You may also want to consider that enlightenment and faith are not mutually exclusive.
Also, if what you hypothesize is true, how did these christian values that people are so hung up on, like “In God We Trust” printed on our money, show up in this “enlightened” groups documents?
Maybe these enlightened people saw a higher social function of faith than the understanding that is being expressed in this thread? Like striving to become something better, being part of a greater good, or a myriad of other socially redeeming values that are woven through christianity and the documents that established the U.S. as a soveriegn nation.[/quote]
Says me and reputable historians. Christianity is not woven through the founding documents–I repeat that the Founders were almost exclusively Deists. Do you know what that means?
And as for “how did these christian values that people are so hung up on, like ‘In God We Trust’ printed on our money, show up in this “enlightened” groups documents?”–It never showed up in their documents you fucking cretin, it was first printed on coins in the US a century after the Revolution. Read a fucking book.
[/quote]
Dont overwhelm the boy with actual facts. His fantasies are much more comfortable.
Hell, if you want to debate history, you have to build a time machine and go back and take video. Until then STFU.[/quote]
Most of this stuff the anti-christians are posting here is utter BS. Some of you don’t seem to know much about either biblical teachings OR what typical Christians believe. There are really too many dumb claims made here to go through and contradict them all, suffice to say that when someone is deeply against someone’s opinion and they make some statement about “what such and such believes” it’s generally an ignorant statement.
The tricky part with the founding of the country is that there is a spiritual tone and reasoning to the founding of the country, there is not, however, a strictly religious one.
It is difficult to put the founding fathers into specific religions or denominations because frankly they either didn’t attached themselves to one, or the sects they did don’t translate into today’s terminology.
Many did regularly attend church. Some where indeed Christian, just not in the normal way we think of Christians today. BUT the one definite thing that can be said is that they all believed in god. Not only did they believe in him, but he is the sole basic justification for everything they did from the revolution through the constitution and the bill of rights.
They all got together and decided that they had a duty to break from England, found a new nation, and codify the rights of man because they felt these things were god given.
Without god there is no founding of the nation, at least not as we know it, because there is no justification for what they did. There is no argument for the natural (god given) rights of man.
The truth is that if you remove god from the equation you remove “inalienable rights”.
You guys may not like it, but god is fundamental to this nation. It’s why there are references to god on currency and in the pledge and such.
If you remove the god given rights of man from this country, what are you proposing to replace it with?
[/quote]
You post is thoughtful and I agree with a lot of it. God was central to the Founders’ understanding of the world and of their right to break from the King. However, for the vast majority of them, this wasn’t the God of the Christian Bible as we understand Him today. When Jefferson and Franklin referred to God, they were talking about a creator-entity outside of physical law whose existence could be affirmed through human reason, not Yahweh or Jesus Christ.
The beliefs of Deists and theistic rationalists fly in the face of the traditional teachings of the Abrahamic religions. The Founders were above all else rationalists rooted firmly in the Enlightenment tradition–the very same movement which gave birth to modern science which, over the course of the next few centuries, firmly and conclusively showed the Bible to be absolutely full of factual error.
[quote]MattyG35 wrote:
This is getting into lol territory[/quote]
I hope so. The Academy Awards were on and I was bored out of my freakin mind.
Really though, I bet ole Cappn planet up there isn’t even politically active locally, but wants to bitch about the work of people who had the balls and ability to start their own freakin country.
Typical wannabe intellectuals in this thread. Motor mouth with lead in their asses.
[/quote]
You keep talking about the people that “had the balls and ability to start their own freakin country.” You do realize that the founders would have come down on the side of people wishing to keep religion out of politics, right? They were almost universally Deists and Agnostics. The Jefferson Bible–the publication of which would today be seen as sacrilegious–consisted of the New Testament minus all supernatural bullshit: no angels, no Trinity, no resurrection,no prophecies.
The Founders were Enlightenment thinkers, and the Enlightenment was the enemy of the Church. They championed reason and distrusted faith.[/quote]
Yeah, says you. You may also want to consider that enlightenment and faith are not mutually exclusive.
Also, if what you hypothesize is true, how did these christian values that people are so hung up on, like “In God We Trust” printed on our money, show up in this “enlightened” groups documents?
Maybe these enlightened people saw a higher social function of faith than the understanding that is being expressed in this thread? Like striving to become something better, being part of a greater good, or a myriad of other socially redeeming values that are woven through christianity and the documents that established the U.S. as a soveriegn nation.[/quote]
Says me and reputable historians. Christianity is not woven through the founding documents–I repeat that the Founders were almost exclusively Deists. Do you know what that means?
And as for “how did these christian values that people are so hung up on, like ‘In God We Trust’ printed on our money, show up in this “enlightened” groups documents?”–It never showed up in their documents you fucking cretin, it was first printed on coins in the US a century after the Revolution. Read a fucking book.
[/quote]
Dont overwhelm the boy with actual facts. His fantasies are much more comfortable.
Hell, if you want to debate history, you have to build a time machine and go back and take video. Until then STFU.[/quote]
Most of this stuff the anti-christians are posting here is utter BS. Some of you don’t seem to know much about either biblical teachings OR what typical Christians believe. There are really too many dumb claims made here to go through and contradict them all, suffice to say that when someone is deeply against someone’s opinion and they make some statement about “what such and such believes” it’s generally an ignorant statement.
The tricky part with the founding of the country is that there is a spiritual tone and reasoning to the founding of the country, there is not, however, a strictly religious one.
It is difficult to put the founding fathers into specific religions or denominations because frankly they either didn’t attached themselves to one, or the sects they did don’t translate into today’s terminology.
Many did regularly attend church. Some where indeed Christian, just not in the normal way we think of Christians today. BUT the one definite thing that can be said is that they all believed in god. Not only did they believe in him, but he is the sole basic justification for everything they did from the revolution through the constitution and the bill of rights.
They all got together and decided that they had a duty to break from England, found a new nation, and codify the rights of man because they felt these things were god given.
Without god there is no founding of the nation, at least not as we know it, because there is no justification for what they did. There is no argument for the natural (god given) rights of man.
The truth is that if you remove god from the equation you remove “inalienable rights”.
You guys may not like it, but god is fundamental to this nation. It’s why there are references to god on currency and in the pledge and such.
If you remove the god given rights of man from this country, what are you proposing to replace it with?
[/quote]
Yeah? They just up and decided they needed to break away from England? Or was the country founded with the help of England (and several other established nations) before independence was declared?
Because thats a super far cry from “Round up a group of people and build your own country.”, don’tcha think?
[/quote]
Iâ??m not even sure what this had to do with anything, but no, the country (America) was not founded until independence was declared.
Retarded comparison. Not believing in the sky wizard necessitates not believe in natural rights, because that is what natural rights are. You cannot believe in god given rights without believing in god. There is no logical or reasonable justification for innate human rights outside of god.
A more appropriate comparison would be:
Leprechauns are a fairy tail. If you donâ??t believe in fairy tales you donâ??t believe in leprechauns.
If they arenâ??t from god, then logically justify them. Why can I not take your rights away?
But regardless of what you personally are willing to accept, god given rights are the foundation of the country.
Also I’d like to point out that the founding of the United States of America was about taxation first and foremost. This is not a theocracy and it was never intended to be one.
[quote]MattyG35 wrote:
This is getting into lol territory[/quote]
I hope so. The Academy Awards were on and I was bored out of my freakin mind.
Really though, I bet ole Cappn planet up there isn’t even politically active locally, but wants to bitch about the work of people who had the balls and ability to start their own freakin country.
Typical wannabe intellectuals in this thread. Motor mouth with lead in their asses.
[/quote]
You keep talking about the people that “had the balls and ability to start their own freakin country.” You do realize that the founders would have come down on the side of people wishing to keep religion out of politics, right? They were almost universally Deists and Agnostics. The Jefferson Bible–the publication of which would today be seen as sacrilegious–consisted of the New Testament minus all supernatural bullshit: no angels, no Trinity, no resurrection,no prophecies.
The Founders were Enlightenment thinkers, and the Enlightenment was the enemy of the Church. They championed reason and distrusted faith.[/quote]
Yeah, says you. You may also want to consider that enlightenment and faith are not mutually exclusive.
Also, if what you hypothesize is true, how did these christian values that people are so hung up on, like “In God We Trust” printed on our money, show up in this “enlightened” groups documents?
Maybe these enlightened people saw a higher social function of faith than the understanding that is being expressed in this thread? Like striving to become something better, being part of a greater good, or a myriad of other socially redeeming values that are woven through christianity and the documents that established the U.S. as a soveriegn nation.[/quote]
Says me and reputable historians. Christianity is not woven through the founding documents–I repeat that the Founders were almost exclusively Deists. Do you know what that means?
And as for “how did these christian values that people are so hung up on, like ‘In God We Trust’ printed on our money, show up in this “enlightened” groups documents?”–It never showed up in their documents you fucking cretin, it was first printed on coins in the US a century after the Revolution. Read a fucking book.
[/quote]
Dont overwhelm the boy with actual facts. His fantasies are much more comfortable.
Hell, if you want to debate history, you have to build a time machine and go back and take video. Until then STFU.[/quote]
Most of this stuff the anti-christians are posting here is utter BS. Some of you don’t seem to know much about either biblical teachings OR what typical Christians believe. There are really too many dumb claims made here to go through and contradict them all, suffice to say that when someone is deeply against someone’s opinion and they make some statement about “what such and such believes” it’s generally an ignorant statement.
The tricky part with the founding of the country is that there is a spiritual tone and reasoning to the founding of the country, there is not, however, a strictly religious one.
It is difficult to put the founding fathers into specific religions or denominations because frankly they either didn’t attached themselves to one, or the sects they did don’t translate into today’s terminology.
Many did regularly attend church. Some where indeed Christian, just not in the normal way we think of Christians today. BUT the one definite thing that can be said is that they all believed in god. Not only did they believe in him, but he is the sole basic justification for everything they did from the revolution through the constitution and the bill of rights.
They all got together and decided that they had a duty to break from England, found a new nation, and codify the rights of man because they felt these things were god given.
Without god there is no founding of the nation, at least not as we know it, because there is no justification for what they did. There is no argument for the natural (god given) rights of man.
The truth is that if you remove god from the equation you remove “inalienable rights”.
You guys may not like it, but god is fundamental to this nation. It’s why there are references to god on currency and in the pledge and such.
If you remove the god given rights of man from this country, what are you proposing to replace it with?
[/quote]
You post is thoughtful and I agree with a lot of it. God was central to the Founders’ understanding of the world and of their right to break from the King. However, for the vast majority of them, this wasn’t the God of the Christian Bible as we understand Him today. When Jefferson and Franklin referred to God, they were talking about a creator-entity outside of physical law whose existence could be affirmed through human reason, not Yahweh or Jesus Christ.
The beliefs of Deists and theistic rationalists fly in the face of the traditional teachings of the Abrahamic religions. The Founders were above all else rationalists rooted firmly in the Enlightenment tradition–the very same movement which gave birth to modern science which, over the course of the next few centuries, firmly and conclusively showed the Bible to be absolutely full of factual error.[/quote]
I agree with most of this. The founding fathers were not traditionally religious.
But that doesn’t change any of what I wrote and I’m not aware of disproved parts of the bible. Disproving the bible is actually theoretically impossible granting the assumption of a god.
I’d also like to point out that many of the greatest scientist and thinkers were deeply religious and/or spiritual founding fathers included.
[quote]smh23 wrote:
Also I’d like to point out that the founding of the United States of America was about taxation first and foremost. This is not a theocracy and it was never intended to be one.[/quote]
lol, yes, taxation as it pertained to the rights of an individual.
Iâ??m not even sure what this had to do with anything, but no, the country (America) was not founded until independence was declared.
[/quote]
I was comparing the difference between the people already being over there, the land already appropriated, etc, etc - and then the founders declaring independence to me starting a country by “finding like minded people, going somewhere, and starting a country.”
Two totally different things.
God given rights =/= natural rights. Because nature exists, God does not.
Again, you’re trying to credit something fictitious (God/leprechauns) with something real (rights/trees) and saying that, since the real thing is real, the fictitious thing must be real, since the fictitious thing made the real thing.
Its really fucking stupid.
If trees arent from leprechauns, explain how trees got here. And dont say from the seeds of other trees, because then how did those trees get there? How did the first tree come into existence? Clearly the work of leprechauns.
(Isn’t argument from ignorance fun? If I don’t have a comprehensive, flawless answer to the question of “where do rights come from?”, clearly your answer of “A magical wizard man up in the sky!” must be true!)
I�¢??m not even sure what this had to do with anything, but no, the country (America) was not founded until independence was declared.
[/quote]
I was comparing the difference between the people already being over there, the land already appropriated, etc, etc - and then the founders declaring independence to me starting a country by “finding like minded people, going somewhere, and starting a country.”
Two totally different things.
God given rights =/= natural rights. Because nature exists, God does not.
Again, you’re trying to credit something fictitious (God/leprechauns) with something real (rights/trees) and saying that, since the real thing is real, the fictitious thing must be real, since the fictitious thing made the real thing.
Its really fucking stupid.
If trees arent from leprechauns, explain how trees got here. And dont say from the seeds of other trees, because then how did those trees get there? How did the first tree come into existence? Clearly the work of leprechauns.
(Isn’t argument from ignorance fun? If I don’t have a comprehensive, flawless answer to the question of “where do rights come from?”, clearly your answer of “A magical wizard man up in the sky!” must be true!)[/quote]
Define natural rights without god. In your sentence, you assigned a mystical power to nature, “nature gave” something. Natural rights are by definition from god, that isn’t argument from ignorance. You can define trees without the use of leprechauns, you cannot define natural human rights without god.
I’m not asking about the leprechauns, I’m asking you do define the trees. I asked you a very simple straight forward question that you have to be able to answer to hold your position and you’ve only avoided it by making stupid comparisons to leprechauns.
Without god justify human rights and the founding of the country. Please quit the stupid leprechaun talk.
Define natural rights without god. In your sentence, you assigned a mystical power to nature, “nature gave” something. Natural rights are by definition from god, that isn’t argument from ignorance. You can define trees without the use of leprechauns, you cannot define natural human rights without god.
I’m not asking about the leprechauns, I’m asking you do define the trees. I asked you a very simple straight forward question that you have to be able to answer to hold your position and you’ve only avoided it by making stupid comparisons to leprechauns.
Without god justify human rights and the founding of the country. Please quit the stupid leprechaun talk.[/quote]
I would have responded to this, if not for “prove nature exists”.
Define natural rights without god. In your sentence, you assigned a mystical power to nature, “nature gave” something. Natural rights are by definition from god, that isn’t argument from ignorance. You can define trees without the use of leprechauns, you cannot define natural human rights without god.
I’m not asking about the leprechauns, I’m asking you do define the trees. I asked you a very simple straight forward question that you have to be able to answer to hold your position and you’ve only avoided it by making stupid comparisons to leprechauns.
Without god justify human rights and the founding of the country. Please quit the stupid leprechaun talk.[/quote]
I would have responded to this, if not for “prove nature exists”.
[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
Hell, for that matter, why don’t you prove “nature” exists, since you believe in that.[/quote]
… you want me to… prove that nature exists.
You… seriously I…
Ok. You win. This just got too stupid. I can’t keep up with someone who demands that I prove the existence of nature. Too much man, too much.[/quote]
No, I don’t expect you to prove anything. Because existence isn’t provable.
And once again, you dodge the question.[/quote]
Once again, you ask a question that you can be reasonably sure I can’t answer, so that you can claim your answer is better.
You ask me to explain where natural rights come from. I don’t know.
This will, of course, lead you, in the typical Sky-Wizard-believing way to shout “YOU DONT KNOW AND I DO! I WIN!”
So, I responded by pointing out that your methodology is bad, and you try to claim that I’m “Dodging the question”.
So, here you go: I dont know where rights come from exactly.
I do know that Sky Wizard, God, Yahweh, Zeus, Krishna, Allah, and all the other Sky People do not exist, so I know none of those are the answer.
But, of course, your point is: Since Cappedandplanit doesn’t know where rights come from, they must come from God, and God must exist.
Right?[/quote]
First, quit guessing at what I will say and arguing against what you are guessing at. It’s pretty dumb.
Natural rights aren’t logical, they aren’t reasonable, you don’t know where they come from, you can’t even define them, but yet you believe in them? And I’m dumb for believing in god?
And yes it is dodging the question when you refuse to even define terms in your argument.