Why do Americans hate Europeans whom they’ve never even met?
Is this tread really necessary?
Why do Americans hate Europeans whom they’ve never even met?
Is this tread really necessary?
[quote]Headhunter wrote:
electric_eales wrote:
Headhunter wrote:
electric_eales wrote:
Also another point to bear in mind is that Europeans feel a lot more venerable than Americans for two reasons:
Most European counties have been directly affected and greatly damaged by recent global wars
They are in much more close proximity to the Middle east
This is one of the reasons a lot of Europeans are against the war in Middle east, along with the fact that the reasons for invading Iraq have now been revealed to be BS, I think Europeans are more in fear of reprisal attacks from middle eastern fundamentalists, for America’s actions in the Middle east
Most Europeans hope a problem goes away without their having to confront it.
Look at the French hiding behind the Maginot Line while Poland got raped. Poland and France had an ironclad treaty that one would attack Germany the moment the other was attacked. Yeah…
If you think that terrorism will go away without confronting it, you are doing a modern Maginot Line.
Some fresh-faced clear eyed teenage boys then have to die on a Normandy beach (this time maybe a Cornwall beach?) for your cowardice.
Can you please explain in detail with references to source information, how invading Iraq is going to deal with the problem of Islamic Extremists committing terrorists attacks on western countries.
Why? We’ve been over that stuff many times. One person presents a sourced argument, someone responds with their sourced argument, and on and on.
Look, Saddam wanted to close the Straits and get Euros to replace dollars when buying oil. We had to hit them. There ARE more threats to the world than your Muslim neighbors whom you love so much.
You don’t think a global depression (which the Muslims would love) is terrorism?
If you want to see your real threat, read my thread about the interview with Lady Rothschild (If This doesn’t scare you,…). Her, I could truly hate.
[/quote]
Fair enough, no need for that debate again.
I am not sure though that a country deciding to change the way they deal their natural resources is a good reason to invade them, could the same happen to other oil rich countries outside the middle east if they decide they do not wish to play ball with the US?
Who gives a fuck? Any time I’ve been to Europe I’ve been treated just fine.
Cause Americans are pro-life and they hate Americans, its circular reasonning!
[quote]electric_eales wrote:
Fair enough, no need for that debate again.
I am not sure though that a country deciding to change the way they deal their natural resources is a good reason to invade them, could the same happen to other oil rich countries outside the middle east if they decide they do not wish to play ball with the US?
[/quote]
Oil is blood. Without it, civilisation comes to a stop. Really. Its influence and use is everywhere.
What would happen to the world if the Straits of Hormuz was closed for a month? The result would make the 1930s look like a picnic.
Just think of what’s involved to get food from a farm to where you or I live. Can we say stark animal starvation?
For this reason, and until we can develop alternative fuels (which will be a long time), we have to stay in the ME. If that incurs the hatred of Europeans, then our fighting men and women will make sure its a long and healthy hate.
[quote]Headhunter wrote:
electric_eales wrote:
Fair enough, no need for that debate again.
I am not sure though that a country deciding to change the way they deal their natural resources is a good reason to invade them, could the same happen to other oil rich countries outside the middle east if they decide they do not wish to play ball with the US?
Oil is blood. Without it, civilisation comes to a stop. Really. Its influence and use is everywhere.
What would happen to the world if the Straits of Hormuz was closed for a month? The result would make the 1930s look like a picnic.
Just think of what’s involved to get food from a farm to where you or I live. Can we say stark animal starvation?
For this reason, and until we can develop alternative fuels (which will be a long time), we have to stay in the ME. If that incurs the hatred of Europeans, then our fighting men and women will make sure its a long and healthy hate.
[/quote]
I think you have answered your own question then, if your opinions just stated are a reflection of the general consensus of Americans and or its governments foreign policies.
Some people might consider that trade issues should be dealt with using diplomacy rather than military force, there must be many other options available.
This attitude may also be another reflection of why America is losing support globally, as the biggest consumers in the world, you will risk almost global war, kill innocent people and increase the amount of middle eastern insurgents desire to cuase harm to western countries just to ensure that your Chevy�??s have plenty of gas to drive to McDonalds and back every day.
electric_eales,
[quote]electric_eales wrote:
I think you have answered your own question then, if your opinions just stated are a reflection of the general consensus of Americans and or its governments foreign policies.
Some people might consider that trade issues should be dealt with using diplomacy rather than military force, there must be many other options available.
This attitude may also be another reflection of why America is losing support globally, as the biggest consumers in the world, you will risk almost global war, kill innocent people and increase the amount of middle eastern insurgents desire to cuase harm to western countries just to ensure that your Chevy�??s have plenty of gas to drive to McDonalds and back every day.[/quote]
Brilliant post. To come to the defense of the American people, I would have to say, that I’m convinced HH’s posturing is rather the exception than the norm. Disagreements over the (IMHO crap) politics of its current administration aside, the US is a fascinating country with a marvelously diverse population, and an intense drive to make the world a better place. That bears risks, and has indeed created many problems in the last few years, but I’m pretty hopeful that the next administration will be less misguided, and the rest of the world will see a bit more of the US’ just, fair and friendly side.
Makkun
[quote]electric_eales wrote:
Headhunter wrote:
electric_eales wrote:
Fair enough, no need for that debate again.
I am not sure though that a country deciding to change the way they deal their natural resources is a good reason to invade them, could the same happen to other oil rich countries outside the middle east if they decide they do not wish to play ball with the US?
Oil is blood. Without it, civilisation comes to a stop. Really. Its influence and use is everywhere.
What would happen to the world if the Straits of Hormuz was closed for a month? The result would make the 1930s look like a picnic.
Just think of what’s involved to get food from a farm to where you or I live. Can we say stark animal starvation?
For this reason, and until we can develop alternative fuels (which will be a long time), we have to stay in the ME. If that incurs the hatred of Europeans, then our fighting men and women will make sure its a long and healthy hate.
I think you have answered your own question then, if your opinions just stated are a reflection of the general consensus of Americans and or its governments foreign policies.
Some people might consider that trade issues should be dealt with using diplomacy rather than military force, there must be many other options available.
This attitude may also be another reflection of why America is losing support globally, as the biggest consumers in the world, you will risk almost global war, kill innocent people and increase the amount of middle eastern insurgents desire to cuase harm to western countries just to ensure that your Chevy�??s have plenty of gas to drive to McDonalds and back every day.
[/quote]
You’ve lived in a world policed and protected by Americans. If the Iranians or whoever decided to shut off your oil, do you really think the British navy could get it flowing again? LOL! You’d be goat-fucked and you know it. Of course, you could just move back to Pakistan.
McDonald’s? I’m talking about YOU getting the food YOU need to survive tomorrow. How does it get to your store, oxcart?
Let’s cut the crap: you’d be perfectly happy to let old people freeze to death in the winter and children to go hungry, all so you and your poker playing buddies could have Sharia Law and wipe out Israel. “Hey, we’ve hurt the Great Satan!”
Lixy, seriously, this dude is just too transparent! He’s your cell leader? You’ll never win that way.
US Foreign Policy… not much there to love.
[quote]Headhunter wrote:
electric_eales wrote:
Headhunter wrote:
electric_eales wrote:
Fair enough, no need for that debate again.
I am not sure though that a country deciding to change the way they deal their natural resources is a good reason to invade them, could the same happen to other oil rich countries outside the middle east if they decide they do not wish to play ball with the US?
Oil is blood. Without it, civilisation comes to a stop. Really. Its influence and use is everywhere.
What would happen to the world if the Straits of Hormuz was closed for a month? The result would make the 1930s look like a picnic.
Just think of what’s involved to get food from a farm to where you or I live. Can we say stark animal starvation?
For this reason, and until we can develop alternative fuels (which will be a long time), we have to stay in the ME. If that incurs the hatred of Europeans, then our fighting men and women will make sure its a long and healthy hate.
I think you have answered your own question then, if your opinions just stated are a reflection of the general consensus of Americans and or its governments foreign policies.
Some people might consider that trade issues should be dealt with using diplomacy rather than military force, there must be many other options available.
This attitude may also be another reflection of why America is losing support globally, as the biggest consumers in the world, you will risk almost global war, kill innocent people and increase the amount of middle eastern insurgents desire to cuase harm to western countries just to ensure that your Chevy�??s have plenty of gas to drive to McDonalds and back every day.
You’ve lived in a world policed and protected by Americans. If the Iranians or whoever decided to shut off your oil, do you really think the British navy could get it flowing again? LOL! You’d be goat-fucked and you know it. Of course, you could just move back to Pakistan.
McDonald’s? I’m talking about YOU getting the food YOU need to survive tomorrow. How does it get to your store, oxcart?
Let’s cut the crap: you’d be perfectly happy to let old people freeze to death in the winter and children to go hungry, all so you and your poker playing buddies could have Sharia Law and wipe out Israel. “Hey, we’ve hurt the Great Satan!”
Lixy, seriously, this dude is just too transparent! He’s your cell leader? You’ll never win that way.
[/quote]
I thought you invaded Iraq because they had WMD?
Oh yes, I recently watched a movie called Team America World police, I thought they were just puppets I did not realise they were real, thanks for the policing of the globe marvellous job so far.
What gives America the right to decide what Iraq does with its oil?
[quote]BigRagoo wrote:
orion wrote:
Let cut the BS and get to the point.
We feel inferior because of the mighty average American penis size.
“American penis…so big. Ours so small, so very small.”[/quote]
“How could we do anything to you, with your mastodonic penis?”
Maybe their best episode.
As an American who’s been living in Europe (well, England) for the last three years:
Some of European antipathy (I wouldn’t really call it hatred, most of it) toward America comes from envy. For all our faults, we are the lone superpower in the world. But Europe isn’t exactly collapsing, contrary to what the more unhinged right-wing flacks in the U.S. write. There is a real argument to be made in favor of a relaxed European life-style versus the crazy work and minimal leisure that most Americans deal with. I wouldn’t necessarily make it, but it can be made.
Some of it comes from the fact that due to American arms and American money, Europe has been saved from real war for a couple of generations. I think Robert Kagan is generally right here:
Some of it comes from American cultural hegemony. I would think most true conservatives would realize Brave New World is slowly coming true, and we shouldn’t be cheering the McDonaldsization and Walmartization of our own country, let alone that of others. You can’t bemoan the rot of our popular culture on the one hand and then take offense when its export leads others (Europeans, Muslims) to dislike us.
Some of it comes from the fact that Europe has a much deeper experience of war, and still to some degree in living memory, than America has ever had. Our casualties in WWI and WWII were nothing compared to that of much of Europe. 58,000 dead in Vietnam? The British lost almost double that in a few months on the Somme. We haven’t had foreign troops on our soil since 1814, unless you count the Aleutians. My grandmother is German, her brother disappeared on the Eastern Front, and she viscerally reacts to all war as being stupid. Many Europeans understandably feel the same way.
And much of it comes from the fact that since 2003, at least, American foreign policy has been arrogant, ignorant, and disastrous. European counsel on Iraq was rejected, European help was actually rejected in Afghanistan at first, America supports Israel 9 times out of 10…the list could go on forever.
[quote]Headhunter wrote:
electric_eales wrote:
Headhunter wrote:
electric_eales wrote:
Lixy, seriously, this dude is just too transparent! He’s your cell leader? You’ll never win that way.
[/quote]
Here you have demonstrated another personality trait that is gradually becoming more and more associated with Americans.
You cannot handle anybody from outside the US questioning you, and are aggressive towards anyone that disagrees with you.
In your particular case it is asinine and childish, but it is along the same kind of tract.
Do you realise how desperately immature America looked after the government of France disagreed with the government of America, and then educated well paid Americans that run restaurants, changed the name of French fries to freedom fries?
[quote]electric_eales wrote:
Headhunter wrote:
electric_eales wrote:
Headhunter wrote:
electric_eales wrote:
Lixy, seriously, this dude is just too transparent! He’s your cell leader? You’ll never win that way.
Here you have demonstrated another personality trait that is gradually becoming more and more associated with Americans.
You cannot handle anybody from outside the US questioning you, and are aggressive towards anyone that disagrees with you.
In your particular case it is asinine and childish, but it is along the same kind of tract.
Do you realise how desperately immature America looked after the government of France disagreed with the government of America, and then educated well paid Americans that run restaurants, changed the name of French fries to freedom fries?
[/quote]
I’ll ask again but use words you can more relate to: How’d the fries get to the restaurant? Oxcart?
When you think of the answer, you’ll know why America tries to keep control of the ME. Somehow, letting old people freeze and kids go hungry loses elections.
I’m fine with someone disagreeing with me. If I am wrong, then I’m grateful. All you’ve done is state how you hate Americans and spent your nights with Muslims. You then wonder why I react negatively to your ‘arguments’.
[quote]Headhunter wrote:
electric_eales wrote:
Headhunter wrote:
electric_eales wrote:
Headhunter wrote:
electric_eales wrote:
Lixy, seriously, this dude is just too transparent! He’s your cell leader? You’ll never win that way.
Here you have demonstrated another personality trait that is gradually becoming more and more associated with Americans.
You cannot handle anybody from outside the US questioning you, and are aggressive towards anyone that disagrees with you.
In your particular case it is asinine and childish, but it is along the same kind of tract.
Do you realise how desperately immature America looked after the government of France disagreed with the government of America, and then educated well paid Americans that run restaurants, changed the name of French fries to freedom fries?
I’ll ask again but use words you can more relate to: How’d the fries get to the restaurant? Oxcart?
When you think of the answer, you’ll know why America tries to keep control of the ME. Somehow, letting old people freeze and kids go hungry loses elections.
I’m fine with someone disagreeing with me. If I am wrong, then I’m grateful. All you’ve done is state how you hate Americans and spent your nights with Muslims. You then wonder why I react negatively to your ‘arguments’.
[/quote]
I have not stated how I hate Americans at all, I have tried to respectfully give you answers to your questions from my own view point, taking into account the opinions of people I know.
If you wish to be childish about it then carry on be a twat but I think you are revealing yourself to be a bigoted senseless idiot, you keep coming back with these petty replies, but are very reluctant to answer my questions, I will ask again and see what happens, what gives America the right to decide what Iraq does with its own natural resources?
[quote]GDollars37 wrote:
As an American who’s been living in Europe (well, England) for the last three years:
Some of European antipathy (I wouldn’t really call it hatred, most of it) toward America comes from envy. For all our faults, we are the lone superpower in the world. But Europe isn’t exactly collapsing, contrary to what the more unhinged right-wing flacks in the U.S. write. There is a real argument to be made in favor of a relaxed European life-style versus the crazy work and minimal leisure that most Americans deal with. I wouldn’t necessarily make it, but it can be made.
Some of it comes from the fact that due to American arms and American money, Europe has been saved from real war for a couple of generations. I think Robert Kagan is generally right here: http://www.amazon.com/Paradise-Power-America-Europe-World/dp/1400034183/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1196022370&sr=8-1
Some of it comes from American cultural hegemony. I would think most true conservatives would realize Brave New World is slowly coming true, and we shouldn’t be cheering the McDonaldsization and Walmartization of our own country, let alone that of others. You can’t bemoan the rot of our popular culture on the one hand and then take offense when its export leads others (Europeans, Muslims) to dislike us.
Some of it comes from the fact that Europe has a much deeper experience of war, and still to some degree in living memory, than America has ever had. Our casualties in WWI and WWII were nothing compared to that of much of Europe. 58,000 dead in Vietnam? The British lost almost double that in a few months on the Somme. We haven’t had foreign troops on our soil since 1814, unless you count the Aleutians. My grandmother is German, her brother disappeared on the Eastern Front, and she viscerally reacts to all war as being stupid. Many Europeans understandably feel the same way.
And much of it comes from the fact that since 2003, at least, American foreign policy has been arrogant, ignorant, and disastrous. European counsel on Iraq was rejected, European help was actually rejected in Afghanistan at first, America supports Israel 9 times out of 10…the list could go on forever.[/quote]
A good and coherent post. Thank you. Perhaps a better way of phrasing the question would be “why do the Europeans who hate us hate us?” Certainly all don’t. And as Balbo points out, we must define Europeans as well. What about the many thousands of transplanted immigrants such as our good friend Lixy who are swelling the populations of traditional European countries? This is a complex issue that draws on many disparate topics. But our being the last standing super power from the Cold War does play a large part. Each and every one of our “moves,” or “meddling” in foreign policy is subject to scrutiny of a rigor and intensity of a higher order of magnitude than other countries because of who we are. In addition to the link you offer I suggest Derek Leebaert’s The Fifty Year Wound for an accounting of the Billion$ upon Billion$ of dollars the US gave to bootstrap the crushed European economies during the entire Cold War, because they were our allies.
If I may offer an analogy: In some ways we are like a Ronnie Coleman living in otherwise “normal” suburban neighborhood. Everyone else is going to notice what this threatening monster is up to. Stereotypes will be invoked, whispering comments in little knots of “normal folks” and drunken tirades will occur. If we play music too loud, drive a flashy car or motorcycle, wear strange, baggy clothing stare at people a bit too long or have other hulking and threatening friends over to visit, of course we will be maligned by the “normal” people. The fact that as a country we do have our own agenda(just like every other country), that we do use our strength on the world stage to further it certainly frightens the neighbors, even our friends.
My own experience has been that I (a former Marine who certainly believes in the controlled use of force) can make friends with a Serbian bad ass martial artist, bouncer, etc. who had to sit in basements watching our cruise missiles smash the city around him, a young conservative Russian nationally trained boxer and street fighter, a very young conservative Czech who holds the U.S. responsible for all wrongs to his country from the Prague Spring onwards and others from Europe by being open and frank with them. As an individual I have my own opinion on things and often disagree with what the powers-that-be have done and I make no secret of it. I’ve noticed that some of my younger European friends are thrown by this as if they expect me to defend every little quirk of American policy…
[quote]GDollars37 wrote:
BigRagoo wrote:
orion wrote:
Let cut the BS and get to the point.
We feel inferior because of the mighty average American penis size.
“American penis…so big. Ours so small, so very small.”
“How could we do anything to you, with your mastodonic penis?”
Maybe their best episode.[/quote]
Hahaha, one of the best for sure.
[quote]Grimnuruk wrote:
If I may offer an analogy: In some ways we are like a Ronnie Coleman living in otherwise “normal” suburban neighborhood. Everyone else is going to notice what this threatening monster is up to. Stereotypes will be invoked, whispering comments in little knots of “normal folks” and drunken tirades will occur. If we play music too loud, drive a flashy car or motorcycle, wear strange, baggy clothing stare at people a bit too long or have other hulking and threatening friends over to visit, of course we will be maligned by the “normal” people. The fact that as a country we do have our own agenda(just like every other country), that we do use our strength on the world stage to further it certainly frightens the neighbors, even our friends. [/quote]
I would agree with you, except that when your Ronnie Coleman breaks the door of people in a far far away town and starts shooting people that didn’t do a thing to him. That’s where people start having a problem.
It’s not like you just play music too loud or drive flashy cars. You actually KILL lots and lots of people on the other side of the planet. It’s pretty normal to get pissed at that.
[quote]lixy wrote:
Grimnuruk wrote:
If I may offer an analogy: In some ways we are like a Ronnie Coleman living in otherwise “normal” suburban neighborhood. Everyone else is going to notice what this threatening monster is up to. Stereotypes will be invoked, whispering comments in little knots of “normal folks” and drunken tirades will occur. If we play music too loud, drive a flashy car or motorcycle, wear strange, baggy clothing stare at people a bit too long or have other hulking and threatening friends over to visit, of course we will be maligned by the “normal” people. The fact that as a country we do have our own agenda(just like every other country), that we do use our strength on the world stage to further it certainly frightens the neighbors, even our friends.
I would agree with you, except that when your Ronnie Coleman breaks the door of people in a far far away town and starts shooting people that didn’t do a thing to him. That’s where people start having a problem.
It’s not like you just play music too loud or drive flashy cars. You actually KILL lots and lots of people on the other side of the planet. It’s pretty normal to get pissed at that.[/quote]
But if he were of the proper religion, ass raped a 13 year-old girl, and then had her arrested, you would be splooging all over your keyboard.
He would be your hero.
[quote]lixy wrote:
It’s not like you just play music too loud or drive flashy cars. You actually KILL lots and lots of people on the other side of the planet. It’s pretty normal to get pissed at that.[/quote]
In the instance this “Ronnie Coleman” subscribed to the teachings of Sayed Qutb and Ayman Al Zawahiri, promoted a bigoted, intolerant religion that celebrates beheading and the rape of underage girls then you’d gladly say “Al-Salaam Alieukem” and pour him some tea in your desert tent.