Why are People Afraid?

Off Topic
141

[quote]IQ wrote:

Alpha F,

Why is it that those that are afraid of death (as well as those who usually hold other associated beliefs) believe that all of humanity must mirror their perceptions?[/quote]
I don’t know. You would have to ask them since I can only speak for myself.[quote]

The above post may indicate why you (and some others) fear death, but isn’t it a little narcissistic to believe that people couldn’t possibly think differently to you and must be in denial to entertain such a fantasy?[/quote]
No it doesn’t. This is your interpretation of my post. [quote]

Have you noticed that those who don’t hold a fear of death aren’t assuming that nobody does?[/quote]

No I haven’t. I have observed that those who are truly not afraid of death also hold no fear of killing.[quote]

This is the main problem, people are different and as such think differently. Why is this so hard for some people to grasp?[/quote]

Thinking is not being. Unless your way of being in society reflects a perceptual difference, your way of thinking is merely conceptualism.

I will repeat what I said in my post originally:

The perception of life in the complete absence of fear means spiritual freedom.

People who have attained that needn’t argue their position.

142

I’m not saying they replaced religion with standard atheism. They replaced it with official state brotherhoods which happened to be atheist.

My point is not “lack of belief in God makes people kill Jews”. It is just that history has given us no examples where the banning of organised religion has led to a significantly better society. An whereas there are endless examples of religious wars, we simply do not know what would happen in their absence.

143

[quote]IQ wrote:

Preferring something doesn’t necessarily mean that you fear its opposite, for example if it’s cold outside I put on a coat because I prefer to be warm not because I fear the cold.
[/quote]

We prefer to be warm because we want to avoid discomfort. We avoid discomfort because we fear suffering. We fear suffering because we experience pleasure. In the experience of pleasure we want to prolong life.

A healthy fear of death = Reverence for life and the preservation of pleasure, not only pleasure for us but the pleasure we give others; hasn’t DebraD already said she fears death in the loss of life of her sexual partner?

If we do not care about our own demise should we not care about the suffering our loss will mean to those we live behind?

Individual conscience; what about your collective conscience?
What is the depth of your awareness?

There are many more layers to this ‘fear of death’ and I invite you to go deep in its meaning.

Alpha F

144

[quote]Alpha F wrote:
IQ wrote:

Preferring something doesn’t necessarily mean that you fear its opposite, for example if it’s cold outside I put on a coat because I prefer to be warm not because I fear the cold.

We prefer to be warm because we want to avoid discomfort. We avoid discomfort because we fear suffering. We fear suffering because we experience pleasure. In the experience of pleasure we want to prolong life.[/quote]

Once again you’re making generalisations, you can’t claim to be speaking only for yourself when you constantly use collective nouns, e.g. “we”, “our” and “us”. Do you really think that there are no exceptions to your point above? “Discomfort”, “suffering” and “pleasure” are all subjective terms which can vary greatly from person to person.

[quote]
A healthy fear of death = Reverence for life and the preservation of pleasure, not only pleasure for us but the pleasure we give others; hasn’t DebraD already said she fears death in the loss of life of her sexual partner?[/quote]

Once again this would only act as proof that DebraD has this fear, you can’t transpose that to everyone. In the interest of full disclosure I do personally fear the death of those I love but purely for selfish reasons.

This isn’t a fear of the inevitable however as I could die before all of them.

You should care about the suffering you leave behind, but that doesn’t mean that everyone does.

Not understanding why someone may think differently to you is one thing refusing to accept that they could is completely different.

I can’t speak for anyone else but I’m discussing personal mortality here not losing loved ones. I fear that because it would mean I have to suffer. I don’t fear my death as it serves no logical purpose and once I do die I don’t believe any suffering awaits me.

145

[quote]Alpha F wrote:

I will repeat what I said in my post originally:

The perception of life in the complete absence of fear means spiritual freedom.

People who have attained that needn’t argue their position.
[/quote]

Fearing nothing isn’t exactly the same as not fearing your own death.

How would you know how the spiritually free would act? You’re not spiritually free, you fear death (using your own logic).

146

people are afraid of death and not existing, but oddly we are afraid of living forever too

147

[quote]Regular Gonzalez wrote:
debraD wrote:
legendaryblaze wrote:
bushidobadboy wrote:
legendaryblaze wrote:
“The greatest fear, is fear of the unknown”

Except that it’s not unknown. You have already ‘not-existed’ before, with no worries.

Personally I think it is the fault of religion, to have created a BS afterlife (you go to the good one if you serve me, the bad one if you cross me) that has been instilled in us.

BBB

Are you honestly claiming that you know what happens after you die?
Do you know how the universe came into existence too and how it all started too?

I can’t speak for BBB but I’m comfortable saying I know what happens when I die–that I will cease to exist. Just as others know they are going to an afterlife.

How could you possibly know that?

I understand why religious people delude themselves into believing they know what happens after death, but I don’t understand why a non-religious person would claim to know this. [/quote]

Pretty much what Sloth and BBB said for me. For a religious person since they believe differently than me I’d say they are wrong :wink: But they still know it…

Of course this could lead into a philosophical discussion of the meaning of knowledge, information and data and where facts fit into that picture… But I don’t think I have energy for that. Someone else might though.

But just for fun is it, and is it always:
data->information->knowledge
or
data->information->facts->knowledge?

148

[quote]300andabove wrote:
Religious people spend so much time worrying over their “next” life they forget to live THIS life.

[/quote]

On the contrary, I do live this life.

Edit: I imagine we’ve come to some different conclusions on what it means to “live life.”

149

[quote]IQ wrote:
Alpha F wrote:
IQ wrote:

Preferring something doesn’t necessarily mean that you fear its opposite, for example if it’s cold outside I put on a coat because I prefer to be warm not because I fear the cold.

We prefer to be warm because we want to avoid discomfort. We avoid discomfort because we fear suffering. We fear suffering because we experience pleasure. In the experience of pleasure we want to prolong life.

Once again you’re making generalisations, you can’t claim to be speaking only for yourself when you constantly use collective nouns, e.g. “we”, “our” and “us”.[/quote]
Yes I can and I do.
A statement may only be true under the particular set of circumstances under which it arises.
You quoted my first post and asked me a question about a general statement I made. You asked me:

" Why is it that those that are afraid of death (as well as those who usually hold other associated beliefs) believe that all of humanity must mirror their perceptions?"

I gave you an honest answer to the question you asked me;

  • ‘I don’t know. You would have to ask them since I can only speak for myself.’

Since in that instance and under that context I was not speaking about myself though you yourself held no hesitation in casting your judgment upon my person and set yourself in opposition without ever asking me personally ( You did not ask: “Why is it that you” ) which would have not offended me in the least since I was conscious of speaking from a focused perspective into the human essence. My use of the word ‘quintessentially’ [agree with Sloth] was a clue as to which position I was speaking from and the depth of my statement. It gave you nothing about me in particular.

Again you followed with more assumptions about me personally:

“The above post may indicate why you (and some others) fear death,”

And I answered you truthfully: “No it doesn’t.”[quote]

Not understanding why someone may think differently to you is one thing refusing to accept that they could is completely different.

I can’t speak for anyone else but [/quote]

…but you speak for me, and yet again:

“How would you know how the spiritually free would act? You’re not spiritually free, you fear death (using your own logic).”

Who told you I was not spiritually free?

; )

150

[quote]Sloth wrote:
On the contrary, I do live this life.

Edit: I imagine we’ve come to some different conclusions on what it means to “live life.”[/quote]

Yes most definitely.

But hey enjoy whatever makes you happy :slight_smile:

As my mate said to me today

“The wheels on the bus goes round and round whether your here or not so enjoy the ride and when it’s your stop, it’s your stop… only reason people want another life is that they failed to live this one to the full”

^ Summed it up better than I

151

[quote]Alpha F wrote:
The perception of life in the complete absence of fear means spiritual freedom.

People who have attained that needn’t argue their position.
[/quote]

I like this.

Apparently there’s 5 stages of accepting death:

Denial, Anger, Bargaining, Depression and finally Acceptance.

^ Everyone fits into one of those stages. Most healthy people fit into Denial as in Death… that won’t happen for ages i tell you !!

Then there are those who have gone through those due to various circumstances, and have come to the conclusion there are way worse things in life than death.

152

[quote]300andabove wrote:

Acceptance.

Then there are those who have gone through those due to various circumstances, and have come to the conclusion there are way worse things in life than death.
[/quote]
I agree.

153

[quote]bushidobadboy wrote:
legendaryblaze wrote:
bushidobadboy wrote:
legendaryblaze wrote:
“The greatest fear, is fear of the unknown”

Except that it’s not unknown. You have already ‘not-existed’ before, with no worries.

Personally I think it is the fault of religion, to have created a BS afterlife (you go to the good one if you serve me, the bad one if you cross me) that has been instilled in us.

BBB

Are you honestly claiming that you know what happens after you die?
Do you know how the universe came into existence too and how it all started too?

After I die, electrical activity in my brain will have ceased. There will be no more concious or unconscious thought.

Enzymes within my cells will no longer be controlled by those cells, resulting in autolysis (‘decay from within’). Bacteria in my intestines will begin to overgrow, leading to bloating and gas, on a huge scale. Other bacteria will begin to feast on my flesh, however this will be a relatively slow process, slowed by the fact that I live in modern society and hence by default consume relatively large amounts of preservatives.

Eventually I will decay down to some sort of primordial sludge, whilst my bones peer cheekily through my mantle of decaying flesh. Eventually they too will degrade to the point of unrecogniseability.

However whilst this is happening to my remains, I’m sure others will be relaxing in some mythical, fantastical ‘paradise’. Yeah, right.

If you have any proof that there is any alternative ‘afterlife’ to the one I describe (other than to have my head frozen cryogenically, and then thawed out for cyberpunks to play football with) then please share it with me.

What does the birth or death of the universe have to do with little old me?

BBB[/quote]

Cause it does make you wonder how it all came into being. It is an interesting question.

I believe the same you do. However, you blame the religious folks for preaching about “knowing” and yet you turn around and do the same.

I repeat: I BELIEVE the same that you do, concerning death. However,i don’t delude myself into thinking I KNOW.
You can logically conclude everything you just said about death but it does not mean you actually know.
Get it? (I’m splitting hairs, i know)

154

[quote]bushidobadboy wrote:
legendaryblaze wrote:
bushidobadboy wrote:
legendaryblaze wrote:
“The greatest fear, is fear of the unknown”

Except that it’s not unknown. You have already ‘not-existed’ before, with no worries.

Personally I think it is the fault of religion, to have created a BS afterlife (you go to the good one if you serve me, the bad one if you cross me) that has been instilled in us.

BBB

Are you honestly claiming that you know what happens after you die?
Do you know how the universe came into existence too and how it all started too?

After I die, electrical activity in my brain will have ceased. There will be no more concious or unconscious thought.

Enzymes within my cells will no longer be controlled by those cells, resulting in autolysis (‘decay from within’). Bacteria in my intestines will begin to overgrow, leading to bloating and gas, on a huge scale. Other bacteria will begin to feast on my flesh, however this will be a relatively slow process, slowed by the fact that I live in modern society and hence by default consume relatively large amounts of preservatives.

Eventually I will decay down to some sort of primordial sludge, whilst my bones peer cheekily through my mantle of decaying flesh. Eventually they too will degrade to the point of unrecogniseability.

However whilst this is happening to my remains, I’m sure others will be relaxing in some mythical, fantastical ‘paradise’. Yeah, right.

If you have any proof that there is any alternative ‘afterlife’ to the one I describe (other than to have my head frozen cryogenically, and then thawed out for cyberpunks to play football with) then please share it with me.
u can burn in hell or go to heaven by the way isnt it cool how God made all those things you described in the body
What does the birth or death of the universe have to do with little old me?

BBB[/quote]