Who's Funding the Mosque?

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
121

[quote]Cockney Blue wrote:
<<< The point is that in the US, due to the freedoms that you are so proud, people have the right to worship who they want, how they want, where they want. This should make you happy.[/quote]People do not, or least should not, have the right to practice a “religion” featuring an integral political/legal component that is wholly antagonistic and injurious to our way of life. I have said a bunch of times that the only “religion” falling into this category is Islam. People do not have the right to practice a religion wherein human sacrifice is a tenant of worship for instance. There are limits on what should be considered freedom of religious expression. Islam crosses that line everywhere and we in our disgusting suicidal quest for tolerance at all cost will continue paying for it with the lives of our citizens and the usurpation of what’s left of our culture.

Oh yeah, If you would like, though I’m pretty you’re not interested, we could gladly arm you for your own edification with a biblical definition of what a Christian actually is. David Koresh and Timothy McVeigh do not even remotely qualify. Get it through your head once and for all for your own sake that people can claim anything. It does not necessarily make them what they claim. I promise you that serious Muslims will have no problem whatsoever telling you someone is not on of their own as well.

122

[quote]Cockney Blue wrote:

[quote]dmaddox wrote:

[quote]Cockney Blue wrote:

[quote]dmaddox wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

[quote]dmaddox wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

[quote]Chushin wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

I think the issue is that the Muslims did not attack us any more than the Christians attacked us at Oklahoma city. We were attacked by terrorists [/quote]

I wasn’t aware that Timothy McVeigh thought he was doing “God’s work”, that he did what he did in the name of Christianity, or that many Christians supported his actions.

Did I miss something, or is your comparison fatally flawed?[/quote]

The story I heard :slight_smile: was McVey attacked the Murrah Building in Oklahoma , because the federal government attacked a Christian compound in Wako Texas. You will have to excuse me if I got it wrong :slight_smile:
[/quote]

They story went on to say the David Koresh, the leader of the Branch Davidians, beleived he was Jesus Christ. Does this make them a Christian organization? I think not.[/quote]

So it is some spin off of Christianity . Some people think the whole God is is spoof [/quote]

Both you and CB know good an well the Branch Davidians, and Timothy McVehy were not Christians. You might as well try another argument. Saudi Arabia, Iran, Afghanistan, and others monetarily supported the terrorists of 9/11. 30% of Muslims identify and back what the terrorists did on 9/11. The Christian Church did not in any way give money to Timothy McVehy to destroy a Federal Building. Less than .00000000001 of all Christians back up what those two did. If you guys really believe this then you will eat up about everything.

Hey Pitt I have a nice warm Cow Patty over here would you like a taste. It is the best tasting Cow Patty ever.[/quote]

He was a Christian, Koresh was a Christian. Now they might not hold the same views as the majority of Christians but that doesn’t stop them being Christians. You (collective) play that game over and over, you claim Christianity is perfect then anyone who is less than perfect you disavow but when a group of Muslims do the same you say they are being disingenuous.

Personally I feel the world would be better off if everyone woke up and stopped believing in any of these fairy tales but that doesn’t give me the right to try to stop you worshiping who you want where you want.

You are the Christian so why am I the one that can forgive and tolerate?[/quote]

I may not like the Muslims building a Mosque near Ground Zero, but by our constitution they have every right to. That does not mean they will not have people out front protesting, but they have every right to.

You comparing a lunitic, David Koresh and Timothy McVehy, to being Christian because of what? They are White, and talk about Jesus? You have no clue what being a Christian is about. So now you are turning from being Agnostic to being Atheist. You really need to pick which side you are on. Jumping back and forth shows you really have no idea what you are talking about.

Now has any of the Muslim world actually disavowed the what the 9/11 bombers did? Have all the Muslim nations come out and said come here we have your guys here they are? Have the Muslim nations allowed Christians to build churches in there countries? You are not comparing Apples to Apples.

If you truely believe that David Koresh is a Christian then you have no clue what Christianity is about. Christians have disavowedt he teaching of David Koresh. The Muslim world bows down to Osama Bin Laden. The Muslim world condones the mistreatment of their women, and all non-beleivers. Read the Koran. It is filled with hate, and murder. The Koran was written by one man. The Bible was written by many people over many generations. Two different books that have nothing in common.

We are warning people of what the truth behind Islam is about. If you want to put your head in the ground and not listen then you go right on ahead that is your right.

[/quote]

I have pretty clearly stated on numerous threads that I am atheist.

Feel free to go on playing your game of who the craziest crazy person is. The whole point is not whether the Saudi’s would support you building a church right next to Mecca (the Vatican is in talks about building a Church in Saudi though interestingly enough.) The point is that in the US, due to the freedoms that you are so proud, people have the right to worship who they want, how they want, where they want. This should make you happy.[/quote]

I am not an atheist , just because you do not like his brand of Christianity does not mean that he was not a Christian. Did you ever think the Majority of Muslims do not like the brand of Muslim that the Radicals practice

123

[quote]Pittbull said: <<< just because you do not like his brand of Christianity does not mean that he was not a Christian. >>>[/quote]What we or anybody else likes means nothing, however the bible which is the written source of Christian thought clearly states that he was not a Christian. Every single even vaguely historically orthodox Christian denomination, protestant or catholic denounced Koresh as an anti Christian deceiver. Jesus Himself declared that many would claim His name without His ever knowing them. Believe whatever you want, but please leave the Christian definitions to those who know what they are talking about and have a stake in their declarations. [quote]Pittbull said: Did you ever think the Majority of Muslims do not like the brand of Muslim that the Radicals practice[/quote] I don’t know how many times we have to go over this. The “radicals” are practicing Islam according to their scriptures, prophet and seminal leaders. Do you see the difference yet or does it need to be stated several dozen more ways still?

124

[quote]dmaddox wrote:
Now has any of the Muslim world actually disavowed the what the 9/11 bombers did? Have all the Muslim nations come out and said come here we have your guys here they are? Have the Muslim nations allowed Christians to build churches in there countries? You are not comparing Apples to Apples.
[/quote]

Hmm… not sure if this answers your question, but there are a number of Muslim countries with churches. Here’s someone elses answer because I was too busy to do more of my own research.
http://islam-west.com/2007/11/christian-churches-in-muslim-countries.html

As far as Muslims disavowing what the 9/11 bombers did, here’s something in a similar vein.
http://www.muhajabah.com/otherscondemn.php

As far as Afghanistan and Pakistan not handing over Osama after the US politely asked back in 2001… I think the evidence delivered on the Wikileaks debacle would suggest why it is they’re not too eager to hand him back over. The ISI and the Taliban are both huge fans of Al Queda. I think its a serious, but frequent, mistake to assume all muslims are as devoted to the death of America as those from Af-Pak.

125

[quote]Cockney Blue wrote:

[quote]Jewbacca wrote:

[quote]Cockney Blue wrote:

[quote]dmaddox wrote:

[quote]Cockney Blue wrote:
Islamic people are not supposed to try and convert you.[/quote]

Perfectly written. They are not supposed to try and convert you. They are to convert you or kill you.[/quote]

Not if you are Jewish or Christian they are not.[/quote]

That’s not correct. They attempt coversion, by force if need be.

What they will do is permit “people of the book” to live as dhmini (under the “dominion”). That is, you are allowed to live, but are not a full citizen, your testimony doesn’t matter in court, have limited civil rights, and have to pay a jizya — or a special, additional, tax penalty for being Christian or Jewish.

Eventually they make dhminni status so unbearable and the jizya tax so high, you either flee or convert.

It’s all about subjugation.[/quote]

And of course the Jews and Christians never ever throughout history ever mistreated people of other beliefs. [/quote]

So that is your philosophy. Because our Christian forefathers may have done some bad things in the past, we have to pay for it now in the present and our children should be made to suffer for it in the future.

[quote]
Look, as I keep saying, one set of paranoid delusional rantings written down over a thousand years ago holds about as much water with me as another. They are all as ludicrous to me therefore arguing over which is the most ridiculous is kind of pointless. That said, if your laws state that everyone has the freedom to practice their religion, then you don’t get to complain when those rights that protected your faith in the past now protect someone else’s.[/quote]

The scary thing about this is there are a lot of people like you in Britain. People who have no clue. You think that this is a matter of muslims on one side, Christians on the other and that as an atheist you are a neutral party in the middle. What you fail to grasp is that while the koran teaches that Christians are following god the wrong way it does allow that they can be coerced into islam through use of the jizya. Atheists like you on the other hand are an entirely different matter. Because to them what is worse than following god the wrong way like a Christian is to not believe in or follow god at all.

As you have stated here because of your lack of belief you have absolutely no idea how or why anyone would read a holy book and believe in or take any of it seriously because you think it is all “paranoid delusional rantings”. So when your muslim friends tells you they don’t take certain parts of the koran seriously (ie it’s OK to lie to nonbelievers, and they should be killed) you are all too willing to believe them.

So tell us what did your muslim friends say when you told them that you think the koran is nothing more that “ludicrous” “ridiculous” “paranoid delusional rantings written down over a thousand years ago” that are not worth arguing over?

128

[quote]Sifu wrote:

[quote]Cockney Blue wrote:

[quote]Jewbacca wrote:

[quote]Cockney Blue wrote:

[quote]dmaddox wrote:

[quote]Cockney Blue wrote:
Islamic people are not supposed to try and convert you.[/quote]

Perfectly written. They are not supposed to try and convert you. They are to convert you or kill you.[/quote]

Not if you are Jewish or Christian they are not.[/quote]

That’s not correct. They attempt coversion, by force if need be.

What they will do is permit “people of the book” to live as dhmini (under the “dominion”). That is, you are allowed to live, but are not a full citizen, your testimony doesn’t matter in court, have limited civil rights, and have to pay a jizya — or a special, additional, tax penalty for being Christian or Jewish.

Eventually they make dhminni status so unbearable and the jizya tax so high, you either flee or convert.

It’s all about subjugation.[/quote]

And of course the Jews and Christians never ever throughout history ever mistreated people of other beliefs. [/quote]

So that is your philosophy. Because our Christian forefathers may have done some bad things in the past, we have to pay for it now in the present and our children should be made to suffer for it in the future.

[quote]
Look, as I keep saying, one set of paranoid delusional rantings written down over a thousand years ago holds about as much water with me as another. They are all as ludicrous to me therefore arguing over which is the most ridiculous is kind of pointless. That said, if your laws state that everyone has the freedom to practice their religion, then you don’t get to complain when those rights that protected your faith in the past now protect someone else’s.[/quote]

The scary thing about this is there are a lot of people like you in Britain. People who have no clue. You think that this is a matter of muslims on one side, Christians on the other and that as an atheist you are a neutral party in the middle. What you fail to grasp is that while the koran teaches that Christians are following god the wrong way it does allow that they can be coerced into islam through use of the jizya. Atheists like you on the other hand are an entirely different matter. Because to them what is worse than following god the wrong way like a Christian is to not believe in or follow god at all.

As you have stated here because of your lack of belief you have absolutely no idea how or why anyone would read a holy book and believe in or take any of it seriously because you think it is all “paranoid delusional rantings”. So when your muslim friends tells you they don’t take certain parts of the koran seriously (ie it’s OK to lie to nonbelievers, and they should be killed) you are all too willing to believe them.

So tell us what did your muslim friends say when you told them that you think the koran is nothing more that “ludicrous” “ridiculous” “paranoid delusional rantings written down over a thousand years ago” that are not worth arguing over?[/quote]

LOL. Being the true Muslims that they were, they probably slew him by the one true God! thus cleansing the world of the infidel. Which doesn’t explain his posting history between then and now, but whatever.

130

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:

[quote]Pittbull said: <<< just because you do not like his brand of Christianity does not mean that he was not a Christian. >>>[/quote]What we or anybody else likes means nothing, however the bible which is the written source of Christian thought clearly states that he was not a Christian. Every single even vaguely historically orthodox Christian denomination, protestant or catholic denounced Koresh as an anti Christian deceiver. Jesus Himself declared that many would claim His name without His ever knowing them. Believe whatever you want, but please leave the Christian definitions to those who know what they are talking about and have a stake in their declarations. [quote]Pittbull said: Did you ever think the Majority of Muslims do not like the brand of Muslim that the Radicals practice[/quote] I don’t know how many times we have to go over this. The “radicals” are practicing Islam according to their scriptures, prophet and seminal leaders. Do you see the difference yet or does it need to be stated several dozen more ways still?
[/quote]

You will have to point out where the Bible says David Koresh is not a Christian, I know it would make your argument easier if it did .

There are Radicals practicing Islam and there are Radicals practicing Christianity. Do you see the difference :)?

131

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

There are Radicals practicing Islam and there are Radicals practicing Christianity. Do you see the difference :)?[/quote]

Yes there is a difference.

Radicals practicing Christianity are not practicing Christianity. The Bible makes it clear to Love the Lord your God with all your heart and Love your neighbor as yourself. The Bible is also clear that Jesus was without Sin. If David Koresh was to have been Jesus as he claims he would have been without sin. David Koresh was having sex with 12-14 year old girls.

Radicals practicing Islam are practicing what the Koran teaches.

Pitt you are comparing apples to oranges. You are smarter than this, or you are drinking and typing again. If you have not read the Bible or the Koran you really need to stop talking about them.

132

[quote]dmaddox wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

There are Radicals practicing Islam and there are Radicals practicing Christianity. Do you see the difference :)?[/quote]

Yes there is a difference.

Radicals practicing Christianity are not practicing Christianity. The Bible makes it clear to Love the Lord your God with all your heart and Love your neighbor as yourself. The Bible is also clear that Jesus was without Sin. If David Koresh was to have been Jesus as he claims he would have been without sin. David Koresh was having sex with 12-14 year old girls.

Radicals practicing Islam are practicing what the Koran teaches.

Pitt you are comparing apples to oranges. You are smarter than this, or you are drinking and typing again. If you have not read the Bible or the Koran you really need to stop talking about them.[/quote]

http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/num/25.html
It would make your argument easy if I were not to question anything you say but both religions
have their KOOK factor. The anti Islam movement comes from someone that is benefiting from the fear they create . I personally think it is the Christian faction of the republican party.

I am not an atheist but if some one does not believe in God the all religion is quackery .

133

[quote]Sifu wrote:

[quote]Cockney Blue wrote:

[quote]Jewbacca wrote:

[quote]Cockney Blue wrote:

[quote]dmaddox wrote:

[quote]Cockney Blue wrote:
Islamic people are not supposed to try and convert you.[/quote]

Perfectly written. They are not supposed to try and convert you. They are to convert you or kill you.[/quote]

Not if you are Jewish or Christian they are not.[/quote]

That’s not correct. They attempt coversion, by force if need be.

What they will do is permit “people of the book” to live as dhmini (under the “dominion”). That is, you are allowed to live, but are not a full citizen, your testimony doesn’t matter in court, have limited civil rights, and have to pay a jizya — or a special, additional, tax penalty for being Christian or Jewish.

Eventually they make dhminni status so unbearable and the jizya tax so high, you either flee or convert.

It’s all about subjugation.[/quote]

And of course the Jews and Christians never ever throughout history ever mistreated people of other beliefs. [/quote]

So that is your philosophy. Because our Christian forefathers may have done some bad things in the past, we have to pay for it now in the present and our children should be made to suffer for it in the future.

[quote]
Look, as I keep saying, one set of paranoid delusional rantings written down over a thousand years ago holds about as much water with me as another. They are all as ludicrous to me therefore arguing over which is the most ridiculous is kind of pointless. That said, if your laws state that everyone has the freedom to practice their religion, then you don’t get to complain when those rights that protected your faith in the past now protect someone else’s.[/quote]

The scary thing about this is there are a lot of people like you in Britain. People who have no clue. You think that this is a matter of muslims on one side, Christians on the other and that as an atheist you are a neutral party in the middle. What you fail to grasp is that while the koran teaches that Christians are following god the wrong way it does allow that they can be coerced into islam through use of the jizya. Atheists like you on the other hand are an entirely different matter. Because to them what is worse than following god the wrong way like a Christian is to not believe in or follow god at all.

As you have stated here because of your lack of belief you have absolutely no idea how or why anyone would read a holy book and believe in or take any of it seriously because you think it is all “paranoid delusional rantings”. So when your muslim friends tells you they don’t take certain parts of the koran seriously (ie it’s OK to lie to nonbelievers, and they should be killed) you are all too willing to believe them.

So tell us what did your muslim friends say when you told them that you think the koran is nothing more that “ludicrous” “ridiculous” “paranoid delusional rantings written down over a thousand years ago” that are not worth arguing over?[/quote]

Wondered when you would rock up to give everyone the benefit of your narrow minded invective.

Again, you are totally missing the point. I don’t see it as Christians against Muslims with Atheists in the middle. I see two groups fighting both of which include a mixture of religious extremists, religious moderates, agnostics and atheists. Religion is just an easy way to whip the masses into a frenzy.

I have openly told Muslim friends that I am atheist and don’t believe any of what they believe. Funnily I haven’t had to go any further with them because they just accept it and change the topic. Unlike my Christian friends who typically start calling me crazy for thinking that we decended from Monkeys, telling me how empty my life must be and then telling me they will pray for me.

135

For all those banging on about the US being a Christian nation and having no space for Islam. Interesting that your founding fathers didn’t share your views.

There are numerous quotes supporting the freedom for Muslims to practice their religion in the US.

Here is a useful link for any of you prepared to pull your head out of your arse long enough

137

[quote]Chushin wrote:

[quote]Cockney Blue wrote:
For all those banging on about the US being a Christian nation and having no space for Islam. Interesting that your founding fathers didn’t share your views.

There are numerous quotes supporting the freedom for Muslims to practice their religion in the US.

Here is a useful link for any of you prepared to pull your head out of your arse long enough

http://www.loc.gov/loc/lcib/0205/tolerance.html[/quote]

Huh?

I don’t recall ANYONE saying “there is no space for Islam” in America.

Sorry, but I think it’s you who’s suffering from cephalocaudal inversion.[/quote]

You’d better re-read Trib’s posts.

138

[quote]Chushin wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:
There are Radicals practicing Islam and there are Radicals practicing Christianity. Do you see the difference :)?[/quote]

Yeah.

The total number dead. [/quote]

How far do you want to go back ?

It is a non issue , some one wants you to believe the Muslims have done you wrong and they have succeeded