Who's Funding the Mosque?

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
61

[quote]florelius wrote:

[quote]Sifu wrote:

[quote]florelius wrote:
headhunter: tell us when you have a “final solution” to the “muslim problem” [/quote]

I’m not surprised that a clueless European (especially one from Scandinavia) would want to bully people by using such terms. The irony is that islam and national socialism are very similar ideologies with very similar history.

You Scandinavians are like babes in the woods. You have lived your entire lives in very homogeneous societies where the concept of a community that has been divided along ethnic or religious lines is completely foreign to you. But your ignorance doesn’t stop you from dissing those who have grown up with it like we have in the US.

It is only in recent years that you Norwegians have had mass immigration into your country of muslims and have only recently had to deal with the consequences. ie The skyrocketing incidences of rape in Oslo. Yet even now as the results become apparent leftists like you wnat to stifle open debate.

http://www.brusselsjournal.com/node/1754

“The number of rapes in the Norwegian capital Oslo is six times as high as in New York City.”

According to Aftenposten, the clinic (voldtektsmottak) at the emergency hospital known as Legevakt has never had so many rape victims to treat. Its ability to care for them all is being severely tested. The number of reported rapes has skyrocketed this year.

Two out of three charged with rape in Norway�¢??s capital are immigrants with a non-western background according to a police study. The number of rape cases is also rising steadily. Unni Wikan, a professor of social anthropology at the University of Oslo, in 2001 said that �¢??Norwegian women must take their share of responsibility for these rapes�¢?? because Muslim men found their manner of dress provocative.

The professor�¢??s conclusion was not that Muslim men living in the West needed to adjust to Western norms, but the exact opposite: �¢??Norwegian women must realize that we live in a Multicultural society and adapt themselves to it.�¢??[/quote]

the ideology/religion that islam is closest to is judaisme. its the same god ( the god of abraham/ibrahim ), its very similar rules ( think food, cutting of foreskin etc ) and they both originated among semittic people. So its not nazisme that is closest to islam.

about the rapings in oslo. yes there are non-western people who rape in oslo, but non-western is not per definition muslim. there are also ethnic norwegians who rape. the take home point is this: if a muslim man rapes a woman, does that meen that all muslims are rapists? answer: offcourse not! so to sum up, the logic you anti-muslims follow are flawed. its classic group-judging. the same flawed logic the nazis used to legitimate their killings of jews, gypsis, homosexuals, communists etc.

So all I am saying is thats a dangerous logic to follow. it will end with a new holocaust.

[/quote]

I think the new holocaust will be initiated by the Muslims. You might want to tell your Muslim budies what you are telling us. I think a cartoon would be a nice jesture.

62

[quote]Chushin wrote:

[quote]Cockney Blue wrote:

[quote]Jewbacca wrote:

[quote]Cockney Blue wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]Cockney Blue wrote:

Of course a politician can be influenced by his religion …[/quote]

I agree with you post. It’s just that most people today don’t understand that first part of your statement. Separation of church and state now means “religion and politics must be legally separated and anyone that mixes the 2 is wrong to do so”.

The first amendment is really just, no institution of religion, laws can still have a basis in religious belief. For example, I believe god granted humans inalienable rights and I can be for laws meant to achieve that without violating the first amendment.[/quote]

But in doing so you shouldn’t do anything that infringes my rights to for instance buy beer or work any day of the week, right?[/quote]

You are confusing the concept of religion inspiring civil law with a religion trumping civil law.

Almost all American civil law is inspired by the Torah or the Bible.

Laws against murder, for example come direct from Mt. Sinai. One of the top 10.

Bankruptcy law is straight from Leviticus.

The issue is a religion (Islam) that teaches its laws or edicits trump civil law, regardless of of what the civil law says.

For example, muslim converts to another religion (typically Christianity) are frequently murdered in the USA because the koran commands death for apostates, regardless of the freedom of religion promised by the US Constitution.

Honor killings of daughters or sisters for dating outside the “faith” are likewise growing.

Rapes of women for daring to dress “provacatively” etc.

It’s a fundamental theological difference and incompatable with Western Democratic society.
[/quote]

The problems you point out with Islam are definitely real problems however in the same way that Christians would say that horrific things carried out in the name of Christianity are actually not Christian because they were not truly following Gods will, rationale Muslims will tell you that the kind of horrors listed above go totally against the religion of peace.[/quote]

Correct me if I’m wrong, but don’t the 4 major schools of Sunni jurisprudence condone death for aposty?[/quote]

And the Christian Bible has the death penalty for numerous crimes. I wasn’t giving my opinion of Islam, I was telling you what my Muslim friends tell me.

63

[quote]apbt55 wrote:

[quote]Cockney Blue wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]Cockney Blue wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]Cockney Blue wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]Cockney Blue wrote:
Or you could be a secular nation that has separation of religion and politics. Just saying, it is an option…[/quote]

Religion is part of who people are, they have every right to be who they are in politics, voters, politicians and the like. It is Anti-American to try to forcibly separate the 2. It would be like trying to get homosexual issues out of politics. A gay person has every right to have their sexuality influence their vote or their politics. So do Christians.[/quote]

I think you will find that your constitution (which I guess defines what it is to be American) actually does forcibly separate politics and religion. Telling people they cannot build a place of worship on some land that they own is massively unamerican.[/quote]

I’m kind of personally divided on the issue. It pisses me off that something like this will be a victory for those who committed the acts on 911, BUT at the same time allowing it is why we are better than them. I honestly wish that the Muslims would see how insensitive it is and not do it, But I’m not for gubament stopping them.

BUT the constitution does not separate religion and government.[/quote]

Lots of Muslims died in the Twin Towers as well you realise?

I agree with most of what you wrote here however would the First Amendment not typically be agreed to separate religion and government?[/quote]

“Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion”?

How do you get, “politics and religion have to be separate?” Congress can’t make a state religion, but politicians can absolutely be religious and let religious beliefs influence them.[/quote]

Of course a politician can be influenced by his religion however he cannot pass a law that impinges on someone else’s religion such as stopping someone building a place of worship just because they don’t like the particular religion (which is what we are referring to in the first place.)[/quote]

Ok so by your argument, we have no right to tell someone who worships bael and needs to sacrifice virgins as well as animals to stop them from building a place of worship in which they can plan this out or pursue it. I mean suppose these are consenting virgins will to die for their beliefs.

What about the bubble law in chicago, a man can’t even pray outside a planned parenthood, does this not fall under the same category.

[/quote]

We have no right to stop someone building a temple to Bael, if they are planning to kill people without their consent in that temple we have a right to step in.

Personally, I think that if the virgins are consenting and of an age where they can make their own decisions then we should let them (though there should be careful investigation that it truly is free will) in practice the current laws of the US would block this.

64

[quote]Jewbacca wrote:

[quote]Chushin wrote:

[quote]Cockney Blue wrote:

The problems you point out with Islam are definitely real problems however in the same way that Christians would say that horrific things carried out in the name of Christianity are actually not Christian because they were not truly following Gods will, rationale Muslims will tell you that the kind of horrors listed above go totally against the religion of peace.[/quote]

Correct me if I’m wrong, but don’t the 4 major schools of Sunni jurisprudence condone death for aposty?[/quote]

Correct. I am no expert on Christianity, but I have read the primary source materials (e.g., the Christian Bible).

I am very acutely aware of the abuses of Christiandom, no small amount done to my tribe.

A distinction can be made between Islam and Christianity in that the abuses of Christiandom, done in its name, CONFLICT with its source material. The moral teaching of Christianity are very sound, and, indeed come directly from the Hillel school of thought. (Rabbi Hillel authored the Golden Rule, repeated to much effect by Jesus.)

In contrast, the abuses of Islam (e.g., spreading Islam by terror) come directly from the source material and are fully consistent with the koran.

A Jewish person can read the Christian Bible and have serious theological disputes, but the moral teachings are wonderful.

The koran, in contrast, is shocking.[/quote]

And Muslims would argue that you are misreading the Koran or using bad translations. Also, in the Bible there are horrific practices condoned or encouraged.

Again, please note that I personally feel it is all a bunch of nonsense

65

[quote]Cockney Blue wrote:

[quote]Jewbacca wrote:

[quote]Chushin wrote:

[quote]Cockney Blue wrote:

The problems you point out with Islam are definitely real problems however in the same way that Christians would say that horrific things carried out in the name of Christianity are actually not Christian because they were not truly following Gods will, rationale Muslims will tell you that the kind of horrors listed above go totally against the religion of peace.[/quote]

Correct me if I’m wrong, but don’t the 4 major schools of Sunni jurisprudence condone death for aposty?[/quote]

Correct. I am no expert on Christianity, but I have read the primary source materials (e.g., the Christian Bible).

I am very acutely aware of the abuses of Christiandom, no small amount done to my tribe.

A distinction can be made between Islam and Christianity in that the abuses of Christiandom, done in its name, CONFLICT with its source material. The moral teaching of Christianity are very sound, and, indeed come directly from the Hillel school of thought. (Rabbi Hillel authored the Golden Rule, repeated to much effect by Jesus.)

In contrast, the abuses of Islam (e.g., spreading Islam by terror) come directly from the source material and are fully consistent with the koran.

A Jewish person can read the Christian Bible and have serious theological disputes, but the moral teachings are wonderful.

The koran, in contrast, is shocking.[/quote]

And Muslims would argue that you are misreading the Koran or using bad translations. Also, in the Bible there are horrific practices condoned or encouraged.

Again, please note that I personally feel it is all a bunch of nonsense[/quote]

I would say that if it really is a religion of peace and love which I have heard a Muslim say, they are the ones reading it wrong. I can’t really intelligently talk about it because I don’t know shit other then what I see on TV which is a bunch of BS anyway.

66

[quote]Cockney Blue wrote:

And Muslims would argue that you are misreading the Koran or using bad translations. Also, in the Bible there are horrific practices condoned or encouraged.
[/quote]

I read the koran in arabic. It’s express. They could “argue,” but they would be lying.

Point out which of the 613 Mitzva (the commands, positive and negative) in the Torah that you deem “horrific.”

Here’s the list:

67

[quote]Jewbacca wrote:

[quote]Cockney Blue wrote:

And Muslims would argue that you are misreading the Koran or using bad translations. Also, in the Bible there are horrific practices condoned or encouraged.
[/quote]

I read the koran in arabic. It’s express. They could “argue,” but they would be lying.

Point out which of the 613 Mitzva (the commands, positive and negative) in the Torah that you deem “horrific.”

Here’s the list:

Number 585 what does that mean? What would be considered Excessive?

68

Hmm…a Mosque in Ground zero? Have we not learned anything?

69

[quote]Jewbacca wrote:

[quote]Cockney Blue wrote:

And Muslims would argue that you are misreading the Koran or using bad translations. Also, in the Bible there are horrific practices condoned or encouraged.
[/quote]

I read the koran in arabic. It’s express. They could “argue,” but they would be lying.

Point out which of the 613 Mitzva (the commands, positive and negative) in the Torah that you deem “horrific.”

Here’s the list:

I am not going to get into breaking down religions on this thread, that is not what it was about. We have gone over this kind of thing on lots of other threads. If you want to start it up again, start a new thread and I will happily join in because comparative religion is a very interesting subject.

I don’t want to hijack this thread which is about the freedom (or otherwise) to build a religious building of any denomination anywhere.

70

[quote]FrozenNinja wrote:
Hmm…a Mosque in Ground zero? Have we not learned anything?[/quote]

What were we supposed to learn ?

71

[quote]dmaddox wrote:

[quote]florelius wrote:

[quote]Sifu wrote:

[quote]florelius wrote:
headhunter: tell us when you have a “final solution” to the “muslim problem” [/quote]

I’m not surprised that a clueless European (especially one from Scandinavia) would want to bully people by using such terms. The irony is that islam and national socialism are very similar ideologies with very similar history.

You Scandinavians are like babes in the woods. You have lived your entire lives in very homogeneous societies where the concept of a community that has been divided along ethnic or religious lines is completely foreign to you. But your ignorance doesn’t stop you from dissing those who have grown up with it like we have in the US.

It is only in recent years that you Norwegians have had mass immigration into your country of muslims and have only recently had to deal with the consequences. ie The skyrocketing incidences of rape in Oslo. Yet even now as the results become apparent leftists like you wnat to stifle open debate.

http://www.brusselsjournal.com/node/1754

“The number of rapes in the Norwegian capital Oslo is six times as high as in New York City.”

According to Aftenposten, the clinic (voldtektsmottak) at the emergency hospital known as Legevakt has never had so many rape victims to treat. Its ability to care for them all is being severely tested. The number of reported rapes has skyrocketed this year.

Two out of three charged with rape in Norway�?�¢??s capital are immigrants with a non-western background according to a police study. The number of rape cases is also rising steadily. Unni Wikan, a professor of social anthropology at the University of Oslo, in 2001 said that �?�¢??Norwegian women must take their share of responsibility for these rapes�?�¢?? because Muslim men found their manner of dress provocative.

The professor�?�¢??s conclusion was not that Muslim men living in the West needed to adjust to Western norms, but the exact opposite: �?�¢??Norwegian women must realize that we live in a Multicultural society and adapt themselves to it.�?�¢??[/quote]

the ideology/religion that islam is closest to is judaisme. its the same god ( the god of abraham/ibrahim ), its very similar rules ( think food, cutting of foreskin etc ) and they both originated among semittic people. So its not nazisme that is closest to islam.

about the rapings in oslo. yes there are non-western people who rape in oslo, but non-western is not per definition muslim. there are also ethnic norwegians who rape. the take home point is this: if a muslim man rapes a woman, does that meen that all muslims are rapists? answer: offcourse not! so to sum up, the logic you anti-muslims follow are flawed. its classic group-judging. the same flawed logic the nazis used to legitimate their killings of jews, gypsis, homosexuals, communists etc.

So all I am saying is thats a dangerous logic to follow. it will end with a new holocaust.

[/quote]

I think the new holocaust will be initiated by the Muslims. You might want to tell your Muslim budies what you are telling us. I think a cartoon would be a nice jesture.[/quote]

I dont get your point. could you explain it for me?

72

[quote]florelius wrote:

[quote]dmaddox wrote:

about the rapings in oslo. yes there are non-western people who rape in oslo, but non-western is not per definition muslim. there are also ethnic norwegians who rape. the take home point is this: if a muslim man rapes a woman, does that meen that all muslims are rapists? answer: offcourse not! so to sum up, the logic you anti-muslims follow are flawed. its classic group-judging. the same flawed logic the nazis used to legitimate their killings of jews, gypsis, homosexuals, communists etc.

So all I am saying is thats a dangerous logic to follow. it will end with a new holocaust.

[/quote]

I think the new holocaust will be initiated by the Muslims. You might want to tell your Muslim budies what you are telling us. I think a cartoon would be a nice jesture.[/quote]

I dont get your point. could you explain it for me?
[/quote]

Your point needs to be directed at all, and not just us who do not care for the muslim religion. That is my point.

73

to dmaddox: In this treadh it is only relevant to point out the danger about the anti-muslim thinking. but if someone spoke about a different group the same way some here does about muslims I would react against that to. Thats actually my point. That people even today after the holocaust can make the same stupid mistake as then.
dont you see the similaritys between the antisemits and the antimuslims. I needed to point that out.

74

[quote]florelius wrote:
to dmaddox: In this treadh it is only relevant to point out the danger about the anti-muslim thinking. but if someone spoke about a different group the same way some here does about muslims I would react against that to. Thats actually my point. That people even today after the holocaust can make the same stupid mistake as then.
dont you see the similaritys between the antisemits and the antimuslims. I needed to point that out.[/quote]

I agree with part of your post, but personally I do not think it has gotten to the point of the holocaust yet. Personally the muslims on the other hand kill Christians by the hundreds of thousands every year. Muslims are allowed to roam free in the United States, and other European countries. All the while Christians and other religions are clamped down by the Muslim nations. It is just a double standard on the Muslim side. Muslims are allowed to lie to the infidels without reprecusions. Any Muslim tells you differently and they are lieing to you. I would love to beleive that Muslims are a peace loving religion, but if you look at the Koran and it tells you differently. Take a gander at it, and read up on their history.

75

[quote]florelius wrote:
dont you see the similaritys between the antisemits and the antimuslims. I needed to point that out.[/quote]

Yes, and all remember all those Jews flying planes into buildings, blowing themselves up in subways and pizza parlors, chopping people’s heads off, and trying to exterminate anyone who is not a Jew.

Oh, wait. Guess Jews don’t do that.

Sorry, the moral equivalency is nonsense.

76

[quote]Jewbacca wrote:

[quote]florelius wrote:
dont you see the similaritys between the antisemits and the antimuslims. I needed to point that out.[/quote]

Yes, and all remember all those Jews flying planes into buildings, blowing themselves up in subways and pizza parlors, chopping people’s heads off, and trying to exterminate anyone who is not a Jew.

Oh, wait. Guess Jews don’t do that.

Sorry, the moral equivalency is nonsense.[/quote]

are you saying that if some jews had done a terrorist attack in germany, that would had made the holocaust ok :open_mouth: ( sarcasme if you dont get it )

The point here is that to call all muslims bad or terroris etc because some individuals did commit an terrrorist act etc is based on a failed logic. To think like that shows a lack of IQ and is the same logic behind the shoa. I am not saying that the west will create a holocaust for the muslims, but that line of thinking is whats justifies events like holocaust. Do you get my point now?

77

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

[quote]FrozenNinja wrote:
Hmm…a Mosque in Ground zero? Have we not learned anything?[/quote]

What were we supposed to learn ? [/quote]

To me, it would be disrespectful to place a Mosque at GROUND ZERO. If you know or love anyone that had anything to do with the twin towers, especially ones that passed its disrespectful. Its disrespectful to glorify ground zero with a Mosque which terorrists associate themselves with. I know most Muslims don’t associate themselves with extremist views, but to me putting a Mosque at ground zero would be like saying " Sorry if we offended you, heres a tribute to your religion!" I have absoulutely no problem with Muslims and their religous choices (the non-extremist ones) you can believe what you want. If you wanna build a mosque in honor of 911…put it somewhere else, not ground zero.

Building a mosque in that honor shows America honors many religions and Honors the “good” Isalm practice…but you can find somewhere else to put it. Not somewhere that a tragedy occurred that will remind many people of who and what attacked.

78

[quote]florelius wrote:

[quote]Jewbacca wrote:

[quote]florelius wrote:
dont you see the similaritys between the antisemits and the antimuslims. I needed to point that out.[/quote]

Yes, and all remember all those Jews flying planes into buildings, blowing themselves up in subways and pizza parlors, chopping people’s heads off, and trying to exterminate anyone who is not a Jew.

Oh, wait. Guess Jews don’t do that.

Sorry, the moral equivalency is nonsense.[/quote]

are you saying that if some jews had done a terrorist attack in germany, that would had made the holocaust ok :open_mouth: ( sarcasme if you dont get it )

The point here is that to call all muslims bad or terroris etc because some individuals did commit an terrrorist act etc is based on a failed logic. To think like that shows a lack of IQ and is the same logic behind the shoa. I am not saying that the west will create a holocaust for the muslims, but that line of thinking is whats justifies events like holocaust. Do you get my point now?
[/quote]

Your “point” is nonsense.

Here are current wars and violence going on:

Muslims (Czech)vs. Serbs
Muslims (all over) vs. Jews
Muslims (al quada) vs. USA and most of the West
Muslims (Pakistan and internal) vs. India
Muslims (Chechnia) vs. Russians
Muslims vs. Chinese
Muslims vs. Thai

Muslims, of all etnicities are at war with: Christians, Hindus, Jews, Atheist Communist, Secular Western, and Buddists throughout the entire world.

That’s pretty much the whole damn world.

ONE common denomiator: islam.

If you can’t see there might be a problem with islam that it makes it go to war with the whole world, you’re too silly with which to bother.

79

[quote]Jewbacca wrote:

[quote]florelius wrote:

[quote]Jewbacca wrote:

[quote]florelius wrote:
dont you see the similaritys between the antisemits and the antimuslims. I needed to point that out.[/quote]

Yes, and all remember all those Jews flying planes into buildings, blowing themselves up in subways and pizza parlors, chopping people’s heads off, and trying to exterminate anyone who is not a Jew.

Oh, wait. Guess Jews don’t do that.

Sorry, the moral equivalency is nonsense.[/quote]

are you saying that if some jews had done a terrorist attack in germany, that would had made the holocaust ok :open_mouth: ( sarcasme if you dont get it )

The point here is that to call all muslims bad or terroris etc because some individuals did commit an terrrorist act etc is based on a failed logic. To think like that shows a lack of IQ and is the same logic behind the shoa. I am not saying that the west will create a holocaust for the muslims, but that line of thinking is whats justifies events like holocaust. Do you get my point now?
[/quote]

Your “point” is nonsense.

Here are current wars and violence going on:

Muslims (Czech)vs. Serbs
Muslims (all over) vs. Jews
Muslims (al quada) vs. USA and most of the West
Muslims (Pakistan and internal) vs. India
Muslims (Chechnia) vs. Russians
Muslims vs. Chinese
Muslims vs. Thai

Muslims, of all etnicities are at war with: Christians, Hindus, Jews, Atheist Communist, Secular Western, and Buddists throughout the entire world.

That’s pretty much the whole damn world.

ONE common denomiator: islam.

If you can’t see there might be a problem with islam that it makes it go to war with the whole world, you’re too silly with which to bother.[/quote]

you still dont get my point. I have explained it three times now, if you dont get it by now, you are to silly with wich to bother.