[quote]Jewbacca wrote:
[quote]Cockney Blue wrote:
[quote]Jewbacca wrote:
[quote]Cockney Blue wrote:
And there are multiple accounts of slaughter and slave taking in the bible. You cannot act all morally superior based on your religious texts. My point was that your comments had no relevance. I am not a supporter of Islam, I personally disagree with a lot of the tenets of the faith.
What I want to know however is why does the mention of slave taking in the Koran have any relevance to whether a Mosque should be built near to ground zero?[/quote]
There are lots of bad people in the Torah. Bad people who did bad things.
For example, King David ran around on his wife for a hot piece of ass, got a war started and many, many innocent people died, including his own son.
Those that did not end badly, repented of their evil, typically paid the consequences, and managed to do good things, with the help of G-d.
The Torah does not encourage taking of slaves. G-d attacks and limits the institution, knowing that men will do bad things, so here are the exact limits and consequences.
In short, the bad people are in the Torah to show that even useless, crappy, evil people can be redeemed by a loving G-d and turned to do good things when true to Him.
This is in direct contrast to the koran, where the taking of slaves and maltreatment of others is glorified and held up as an example of good behavior.
If you cannot see the difference, you are either a very silly person or evil yourself.
[/quote]
But the slaughter and slave taking was condoned by God even encouraged.[/quote]
The only slaughter and slave-taking that was condoned was of the Cannanites.
The Cannannites sacrificed children to Molach and boiled infants in their mothers’ milk; a people so depraved the pagan Egyptians were horrified of their evil and vile ways.
And even the Cannanites captives were to be encouraged to repent and then be freed 7 years after repentance. Unheard of leniece in the Bronze Age.[/quote]
Think you missed a few
After bringing the Israelites out of captivity in Egypt, he ordered them to attack King Sihon of Heshbon. So the Israelites “put to death everyone in the cities, men, women, and dependents” and “left no survivor.”[14]
God then told them to do the same to King Og of Bashan. The Israelites therefore “slaughtered them and left no survivor.”[15] The book of Psalms cites these massacres as proof that the Lord’s “love endures for ever.”[16]
In resettling the Israelites after the Egyptian sojourn, God instructed them to steal the land of seven nations. And he told them to “not leave any creature alive. You shall annihilate them. . . .”[17]
As a result, the Israelites utterly wiped out various peoples. An example is when Joshua’s army attacked Jericho and “put everyone to the sword, men and women, young and old. . . .”[18] Later, the Lord told Joshua to do the same to the people of Ai.[19]
In obedience to the Lord’s commands, Joshua’s army did likewise to many other cities. The Israelites “put every living soul to the sword until they had destroyed every one; they did not leave alive any one that drew breath.”[20]
If the accounts given in the Bible are accepted, there were millions of men, women, and children exterminated in this conquest of the Promised Land.[21]
All of the carnage was ordered by God. And the Old Testament contains other stories depicting him as acting just as horribly.
At God’s command, the Israelites made war on Midian, slew all the men, and burned their cities.[22] Moses was angry, however, because they had spared the women and children.
So he ordered the soldiers to “kill every male dependent, and kill every woman who has had intercourse with a man, but spare for yourselves every woman among them who has not had intercourse.”[23] Shortly thereafter, God gave Moses instructions for distributing the captive virgins among the fighting men and the community.[24]
The prophet Samuel gave Saul these instructions from the Lord: “Go now and fall upon the Amalekites and destroy them. . . . Spare no one; put them all to death, men and women, children and babes in arms, herds and flocks, camels and asses.”[25]
Isaiah reports that on the day of the Lord’s anger against Babylon: “All who are found will be stabbed, all who are taken will fall by the sword; their infants will be dashed to the ground before their eyes. . . .”[26]
Ezekiel claims that God appointed men to punish Jerusalem for its “abominations.” The Lord told them to “kill without pity; spare no one. Kill and destroy them all, old men and young, girls, little children and women. . . .”[27]
In the book of II Chronicles, there is another report of the Lord’s anger breaking out against Jerusalem. This time he “brought against them the king of the Chaldaeans, who put their young men to the sword . . . and spared neither young man nor maiden, neither the old nor the weak. . . .”[28]
Jeremiah denounces those who won’t do the killings desired by the Almighty. He declares: “A curse on him who is slack in doing the Lord’s work! A curse on him who withholds his sword from bloodshed!”[29]
The New Testament’s depiction of God is hardly more favorable. The book of Revelation states that in the end times, heavenly power and a sword will be given to a rider on a horse. He will be allowed to make men slaughter one another.[30]
Another rider will be granted similar divine authority, including power to kill with the sword over a quarter of the earth.[31] Later, four angels and their cavalry of 200 million will go forth to slay a third of mankind.[32]
This destruction is preliminary to Christ himself coming on a white horse, leading the armies of heaven. A sharp sword will extend from his mouth to smite the nations, whose armies will be killed by the sword.[33]
These acts by Christ are consistent with his teaching that he came “not . . . to bring peace, but a sword.”[34] And they show that he, like his father, supports the most extreme violence as a means of addressing problems.
[14] Deuteronomy 2:31-34
[15] Deuteronomy 3:1-7
[16] Psalms 136:17-21
[17] Deuteronomy 7:1-6;20:16-17
[18] Joshua 6:20-21
[19] Joshua 8:1-2
[20] Joshua 11:14
[21] Mattill, Jr., A.J, The Seven Mighty Blows to Traditional Beliefs (Gordo, Alabama: The Flatwoods Free Press, 1995), p. 141
[22] Numbers 31:7-12
[23] Numbers 31:14-18
[24]] Numbers 31:25-47
[25] I Samuel 15:1-3
[26] Isaiah 13:13-20
[27] Ezekiel 9:1-7
[28] II Chronicles 36:16-17
[29] Jeremiah 48:10
[30] Revelation 6:3-4
[31] Revelation 6:7-8
Real estate around there is probably pretty pricey though.