Who's Fault?

Wanted: Public reassurance on Wall Street cure
By MARIANNE MEANS
SYNDICATED COLUMNIST

WASHINGTON – In the early Bush administration years, still riding high with a complacent Republican Congress and a demoralized Democratic opposition, then-Treasury Secretary Paul O’Neill warned Vice President Dick Cheney that uncontrolled spending was producing dangerously high federal deficits, wiping out the huge surplus inherited from President Clinton.
[i]
O’Neill later disclosed that Cheney had cut him off, saying coldly that “deficits don’t matter.” The quote seemed odd for a fiscal conservative at the time, but now looks astoundingly stupid.
[/i]

This is, of course, similar to that other bone-headed Cheney argument that invading Iraq was wonderful because the country had links to the terrorists behind the 9/11 attacks and harbored vast weapons of mass destruction.

None of that proved to be true. Mercifully, Cheney, long thought to be the real power behind the Bush throne, is nowhere to be seen in the current financial meltdown. We do hope Cheney is now on an around-the-world cruise with little communication, basking in the sunlight of the political wreckage he has left behind. We also hope that he’s forgotten that silly legal argument that he’s really a part of the congressional branch of government, rather than the White House, a ploy to help him evade federal requirements that his records be made public.

Because if he’s part of Congress, why isn’t he trying to amend the power-grab of Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson and make the bailout more friendly to consumers whose money is at stake? Oh, well, that’s not his nature, is it?

So why do federal deficits matter when there’s a financial crisis that is basically due to bad loans and bad judgment on Wall Street? Why is it causing turmoil across both U.S. and world markets?

In that mysterious world where money (or its paper equivalent) passes around like peanuts, there is suddenly no money to pass.

The savviest congressional leaders of both parties profess not to know how this financial disaster came upon us, but they have dark suspicions – and should have.

Their questions of Paulson and his economic buddies during the hearings Tuesday were knowledgeable and elicited mostly financial double-talk. Even Sen. Charles Schumer, D-N.Y., the brightest of the lot, didn’t seem to grasp it fully.

Wall Street’s grip on the U.S. financial system has been exposed as a fraud, conceived by a bunch of elite folks who figured out how to mystify the rest of us and enrich themselves.

Public trust never entered their minds. Their credo is confuse the suckers and take their money.

Even before the bailout plan was announced, the Congressional Budget Office estimated this month that the deficit for fiscal 2009 would reach $438 billion, a record. Under the bailout plan, the U.S. treasury would be authorized to spend money that could take the deficit to $900 billion.
[b]
That would rival the highest deficits in history, recorded in the Reagan administration. But Reagan tried to back down a little, quietly agreeing to some tax hikes despite his anti-tax rhetoric. And the wars he waged were against small countries and didn’t last very long.
[/b]

Both Sens. Barack Obama and John McCain support the bailout plan, in principle, and object to its most offensive feature, the protection of huge golden parachutes for chief executives who have ruined their companies.

The congressional proposal that all such salaries should be capped at the same level as that of the president, which is $400,000, sounds sensible.

They each have some legal twists they would like to see, and no doubt the package can be improved. But it’s a start, and nobody can risk stopping to look around. Not now.

We will examine how we got here later, but for the moment we need some public reassurance.

And – conservatives, listen up – that can only come from the federal government. Among other things, that means an end to the Bush tax breaks for the wealthy, guys. Like it or not.

So I’m assuming that youre saying that the Gramm Leach Bililey Act caused the problem, and that it was the Democrats who fucked everything up.

Well, let’s look at that closely. Who was in control of Congress in 1999?

Republicans.

Who was in that Congress? John McCain.

Now, if you want your Republicans taking the credit for Clinton’s balanced budget, then they have to take the blame for this motherfucker.

And that includes John McCain, who voted for the Act.

How about this? Even better.

John McCain’s lying is contagious - The Wall Street Journal just caught it.

Tue Sep 16, 2008 at 07:07:42 PM PDT
It was inevitable. James Taranto of WSJ knows that the current market crisis is an albatross around John McCain’s neck. Today, he tried his best to deflect attention to the Democratic Party’s vote on a bill which lies at the nucleus of Wall Street’s bloodletting - naming Joe Biden and Harry Reid as having supported that bill, and exonerating John McCain.

Problem is, he is lying. Follow me across the fold and I’ll explain.

AndreNeil’s diary :: ::
Forewarning: I work in the financial industry, and am partial to fiscal conservatism. However, I hate being lied to, and I don’t exactly have a soft spot in my heart for liars - especially those who work in or around my field of business. Proving my honesty to the general public is difficult enough as it is, without partisan clowns and snake-oil salesmen tilting the odds against me. So thanks very much, James Taranto. You just goaded me - a fiscal conservative - into posting my first DailyKos diary.

Idiot.

Anyhoo, on to the story.

You probably recognize this man.

That’s Phil Gramm. The man who believes America to be a “nation of whiners.” The man who introduced the Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act to the Republican-dominated US Senate, and enabled its passage in the Senate, on the 6th of May, 1999. Remember that date.

Today, Harry Reid tore a strip out of Gramm and that radioactive bill, blaming it for the current market crisis:

Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (D-Nev.) picked up on that line during a scathing floor speech Tuesday morning that compared Sen. McCain’s (R-Ariz.) approach to the economy with that of the Hoover administration. In his speech, Reid blasted the Republican candidate’s decision to choose Gramm as a top economic adviser.

“The same Phil Gramm who, as a senator, was responsible for deregulation in the financial services industries that paved the way for much of this crisis to occur,” Reid said. “It was Phil Gramm who pushed legislation through a Republican Senate that allowed firms like Enron to avoid regulation and destroy the life savings of its employees, and it was Phil Gramm�??s legislation that now allows Wall Street traders to bid up the price of oil, leaving us to pay the bill.”

Reid is correct. Gramm-Leach-Bliley effectively repealed the second Glass-Steagall Act which, among other things, barred investment banks and retail banks from merging. Gramm-Leach-Bliley effectively removed this restriction, allowing a single institution to both create a debt-based investment, and then facilitate its sale. Previously, with two institutions involved in that process (Three if you count the investment rating company - Moody’s for example), there would have to be a high degree of clarity involved. One institution (Investment bank) wouldn’t just buy, repackage, and re-sell another institution’s (Retail bank) products without first understanding exactly what it was. It would also be far less likely to hold those assets and count them as capital.

With a single institution operating on both the commercial and investment banking fronts, the motive for clarity was eliminated.

Well, given that Reid is the Republican Party’s favourite piñata, given that he squeals so well when the phrase “Do Nothing Congress” is tied to his name, one would naturally expect some blowback for that statement. James Taranto, of the Wall Street Journal, wasted no time:

Given those highly impolitic remarks, you can hardly blame Democrats for wanting to remind people about Gramm. But this particular line of attack is a bit problematic. As an unnamed McCain aide points out to the Hill, the chief House co-sponsor of the bill, then-Rep. Jim Leach of Iowa, is a co-founder of Republicans for Obama. If he has had second thoughts about banking deregulation, he did not mention them in his Democratic Convention speech.

In the Senate, Gramm-Leach-Bliley passed by a vote of 90-8 before being signed into law by President Bill Clinton, a Democrat. Among those voting “aye” were Scathing Sen. Harry Reid and Sen. Joe Biden, Barack Obama’s running mate. John McCain was absent, off campaigning for the 2000 New Hampshire primary.

Two items of note.

This is the page that Taranto linked to in that first bold quote (90-8) as evidence of who did and did not vote for passage of the bill.
Using the roll call from that linked page, he says “John McCain was absent”
Problem is, that page is not a transcript of the roll call vote for the bill. This is. It took place on May 6, 1999. The page that Taranto linked to was a vote on the conference report, which took place 6 months after the bill had already passed in the senate, and just over a week before it was signed into law. The bill was not passed 90-8; it was passed 54-44, almost strictly down party lines (The lone Democrat to vote for the bill was Ernest Hollings of South Carolina).

This is the roll call from the actual Senate vote:

Abraham (R-MI), Yea
Akaka (D-HI), Nay
Allard (R-CO), Yea
Ashcroft (R-MO), Yea
Baucus (D-MT), Nay
Bayh (D-IN), Nay
Bennett (R-UT), Yea

[i]Biden (D-DE), Nay [/i]

Bingaman (D-NM), Nay
Bond (R-MO), Yea
Boxer (D-CA), Nay
Breaux (D-LA), Nay
Brownback (R-KS), Yea
Bryan (D-NV), Nay
Bunning (R-KY), Yea
Burns (R-MT), Yea
Byrd (D-WV), Nay
Campbell (R-CO), Yea
Chafee, J. (R-RI), Yea
Cleland (D-GA), Nay
Cochran (R-MS), Yea
Collins (R-ME), Yea
Conrad (D-ND), Nay
Coverdell (R-GA), Yea
Craig (R-ID), Yea
Crapo (R-ID), Yea
Daschle (D-SD), Nay
DeWine (R-OH), Yea
Dodd (D-CT), Nay
Domenici (R-NM), Yea
Dorgan (D-ND), Nay
Durbin (D-IL), Nay
Edwards (D-NC), Nay
Enzi (R-WY), Yea
Feingold (D-WI), Nay
Feinstein (D-CA), Nay
Fitzgerald (R-IL), Present
Frist (R-TN), Yea
Gorton (R-WA), Yea
Graham (D-FL), Nay
Gramm (R-TX), Yea
Grams (R-MN), Yea
Grassley (R-IA), Yea
Gregg (R-NH), Yea
Hagel (R-NE), Yea
Harkin (D-IA), Nay
Hatch (R-UT), Yea
Helms (R-NC), Yea
Hollings (D-SC), Yea
Hutchinson (R-AR), Yea
Hutchison (R-TX), Yea
Inhofe (R-OK), Not Voting
Inouye (D-HI), Nay
Jeffords (R-VT), Yea
Johnson (D-SD), Nay
Kennedy (D-MA), Nay
Kerrey (D-NE), Nay
Kerry (D-MA), Nay
Kohl (D-WI), Nay
Kyl (R-AZ), Yea
Landrieu (D-LA), Nay
Lautenberg (D-NJ), Nay
Leahy (D-VT), Nay
Levin (D-MI), Nay
Lieberman (D-CT), Nay
Lincoln (D-AR), Nay
Lott (R-MS), Yea
Lugar (R-IN), Yea
Mack (R-FL), Yea

[i]McCain (R-AZ), Yea [/i]

McConnell (R-KY), Yea
Mikulski (D-MD), Nay
Moynihan (D-NY), Nay
Murkowski (R-AK), Yea
Murray (D-WA), Nay
Nickles (R-OK), Yea
Reed (D-RI), Nay

[i]Reid (D-NV), Nay [/i]

Robb (D-VA), Nay
Roberts (R-KS), Yea
Rockefeller (D-WV), Nay
Roth (R-DE), Yea
Santorum (R-PA), Yea
Sarbanes (D-MD), Nay
Schumer (D-NY), Nay
Sessions (R-AL), Yea
Shelby (R-AL), Yea
Smith (R-NH), Yea
Smith (R-OR), Yea
Snowe (R-ME), Yea
Specter (R-PA), Yea
Stevens (R-AK), Yea
Thomas (R-WY), Yea
Thompson (R-TN), Yea
Thurmond (R-SC), Yea
Torricelli (D-NJ), Nay
Voinovich (R-OH), Yea
Warner (R-VA), Yea
Wellstone (D-MN), Nay
Wyden (D-OR), Nay

[b][i]Just so we’re clear here - Biden and Reid voted against that bill. McCain was, in fact, present for the vote.

He voted for it.[/i][/b]

A simple Google search of “Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act” would lead, within two clicks, to the correct link that I provided above. Those two clicks would yield both the correct date of the bill, and the Senate roll call. To find that conference report roll call actually took some digging, and I’m just not going to give Taranto the benefit of the doubt that this was an honest mistake. He pulled a simple bait-and-switch, hoping no one would notice.

James Taranto is a liar. The Wall Street Journal just allowed one of its staff to perpetuate a blatant lie on its behalf.

I thought you should all know that.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/9/16/203823/008/1013/601053

[quote]AynRandLuvr wrote:
Under the guise of helping the poor, you libs created a system that simply destroys everyone. Good job!

You fulfilled Abe Lincoln’s prediction that we would be brought down by our ‘vandals from within’. You libs created that, you dumb fucks.

Yeah, spending and debt, to help the aged, the poor, the minorities. Look where it got you, country-killing bastards! Now go suck OBama’s dick in your favorite Larry Sinclair imitation.[/quote]

Borrowing billions to give tax breaks for the 1%. Best to remember that it’s the middle and lower income earners that get to do all the bailing out. If a middle or low income earner used these same business practises they’d be in prison right now. The 1% do it and everyone else gets to cough up the money. That is whats left of what they haven’t lost through investments to the 1%.

So, it’s funny how when this bill popped up, the split was directly on party lines, with a 54-44 vote, and Republicans passing it through because they had the majority, and fallin in line with lobbyists of the banking industry yet again.

It’s like a blowjob ladder. You guys blow each other and McCain, McCain and the Republicans that matter blow the bankers and the wealthy, and the wealthy are so busy counting their dollars while they’re getting blown that the financial system falls apart.

But it don’t matter, they’ll just blame the Democrats anyway…

[quote]dhickey wrote:
FightinIrish26 wrote:

That’s the point I was making with this.

During Reagnomics and the lies of “trickle down” economics, the government debt exploded.

Clinton balanced it.

Then Bush came in, and the debt exploded again.

From the “stop big government” republicans has come the current crisis.

Cuntlover up there is just having his scizophrenic seizure. He’ll be HH again in a couple minutes, don’t worry.

The current crisis has not come from Republicans. Have you been paying attention at all? Go read about CRA. Thank Jimmy for starting it. Thank Bill for going even further. Then go thank you budies in house for enforcing it and ignoring the warnings of the evil Republicans.

Why don’t you start here:

http://aei.org/publications/pubID.28701,filter.all/pub_detail.asp

It has a leftist slant so you should enjoy it. I’ll even provide a liberal to common sense translation for you:

strengthened CRA = caused the crisis
weakened CRA = attemped to avert disaster
increased regulation and enforcement = blackmailed banks into giving out risky loans.
lessened regulation or enforcement = quit blackmailing banks to give out risky loans.

Refer back to this as needed.

After your done with this, why don’t you try something on ACORN and see how they (funded by your liberal buddies) pressured lending institution to make these risky loans or risk a “CRA rating” hit that had financial penalties. Oh yeah, a young Obama was hired as a consultant to help them threaten the heads of banks.

After that you can do a search and see who tried to avert this disaster in 2003 and 2005 and who blocked that effort.
[/quote]

That article was written by a man who is primarily responsible for the Reagan administration’s efforts at deregulation. You claim that there’s a leftest stance? Tell me you’re kidding.

“Mr. Wallison is the author of Ronald Reagan: The Power of Conviction and the Success of His Presidency (2002) by Westview Press.”

Yeah, sounds really liberal to me. This man has a vested interest in defending deregulation, because he was responsible for its implementation 25 years ago.

The right has overblown this CRA thing, just as the left has overblown the Glass-Steagal act. The responsibility lies with both parties, who, it seems to me at least, argue points for the sake of arguing without working together for the greater good of this country. In my view of the situation, the regulatory measures that we had didn’t work and were in the wrong place. The degree to which the two issues are interrelated is where many disagree.

Edit: a few more reasons why the CRA is overblown.

"For one thing, the timeline is ludicrous. The Community Reinvestment Act was passed in 1977. Are we supposed to believe that CRA was working smoothly throughout the Carter, Reagan, Bush I, and Clinton years and then only under Bush II did overzealous anti-"redlining" enforcement come into play, perhaps a result of Dubya's legendarily close relationship with ACORN? Or maybe overzealous enforcement back in the late 1970s is somehow responsible for a real estate blowout that only materialized 30 years later? It doesn't even come close to making sense.

Beyond that, the mere existence of "subprime" loans -- i.e., mortgages given to less-creditworthy individuals at higher interest rates -- isn't the problem here. The problems have to do with what was done with the loans after they were packaged, sold and used to make leveraged plays."

-Matt Yglesias

[quote]Demiajax wrote:

That article was written by a man who is primarily responsible for the Reagan administration’s efforts at deregulation. You claim that there’s a leftest stance? Tell me you’re kidding.

“Mr. Wallison is the author of Ronald Reagan: The Power of Conviction and the Success of His Presidency (2002) by Westview Press.”

Yeah, sounds really liberal to me. This man has a vested interest in defending deregulation, because he was responsible for its implementation 25 years ago.

The right has overblown this CRA thing, just as the left has overblown the Glass-Steagal act. The responsibility lies with both parties, who, it seems to me at least, argue points for the sake of arguing without working together for the greater good of this country. In my view of the situation, the regulatory measures that we had didn’t work and were in the wrong place. The degree to which the two issues are interrelated is where many disagree.
[/quote]

Hence how I’d rather put my dick in a blender then listen to him.

[quote]dhickey wrote:
FightinIrish26 wrote:
dhickey wrote:
FightinIrish26 wrote:

That’s the point I was making with this.

During Reagnomics and the lies of “trickle down” economics, the government debt exploded.

Clinton balanced it.

Then Bush came in, and the debt exploded again.

From the “stop big government” republicans has come the current crisis.

Cuntlover up there is just having his scizophrenic seizure. He’ll be HH again in a couple minutes, don’t worry.

The current crisis has not come from Republicans. Have you been paying attention at all? Go read about CRA. Thank Jimmy for starting it. Thank Bill for going even further. Then go thank you budies in house for enforcing it and ignoring the warnings of the evil Republicans.

Why don’t you start here:

http://aei.org/publications/pubID.28701,filter.all/pub_detail.asp

It has a leftist slant so you should enjoy it. I’ll even provide a liberal to common sense translation for you:

strengthened CRA = caused the crisis
weakened CRA = attemped to avert disaster
increased regulation and enforcement = blackmailed banks into giving out risky loans.
lessened regulation or enforcement = quit blackmailing banks to give out risky loans.

Refer back to this as needed.

After your done with this, why don’t you try something on ACORN and see how they (funded by your liberal buddies) pressured lending institution to make these risky loans or risk a “CRA rating” hit that had financial penalties. Oh yeah, a young Obama was hired as a consultant to help them threaten the heads of banks.

After that you can do a search and see who tried to avert this disaster in 2003 and 2005 and who blocked that effort.

I’ll do my own research on the subject. I’d put my dick in blender before I trusted some halfwit dumbass like you to give me anything of use besides crappy jokes and empty posts.
One more liberal translation for those that don’t speak the language:

Empty = facts and logic.

It’s obvious that you do zero research. It must be liberating to be free of any knowledge of history and logic. You’re mind is free to soar and imagine what you would have liked to happen.

I even gave you leftist article from UC Davis. You still can’t manage to read and understand it. If I post it on the daily KOS will you read it?

[/quote]

Where exactly are these facts and logic?

This is what’s unbelievable to me. You link someone an article, and you have no idea who wrote it. You claim that it has a leftist bias, apparently because that’s your default reaction to everything related to media, when in fact the article was written by a Reaganite. It would take one click to figure out who Peter J. Wallison is.

If you’re going to complain about a leftist media all the time, at least do your homework. I’m fully willing to acknowledge that reporters and authors have biases, but I’m not willing to take your word on it, and apparently I’m right in my skepticism.

Trying to pin it squarley on one person or party is retarded. This was a national failure.

BTW, anyone putting this on the CRA has swallowed the kool-aid big-time. Independent mortgage companies were NEVER subject to CRA. I mean my God, just read this:
http://www.businessweek.com/investing/insights/blog/archives/2008/09/community_reinv.html

CRA getting blamed for this a non-starter

This really was a perfect storm.

It was not the fault of Carter- blaming him as grasping at straws.

Deregulation of mortgage giants led to this, and the government (led by the GOP, but also signed by Clinton, but opposed by nearly every Democrat in the Senate) let it happen, along with a suffering economy, high gas prices, and a recession, created this.

Technically, you fuckers should have liked Clinton. He ushered in NAFTA, deregulated the mortgage industry, balanced the budget for a couple years, and did a bunch of nation-building.

His reputation, in my mind, is falling faster every day.

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
rainjack wrote:
FightinIrish26 wrote:

That’s the point I was making with this.

During Reagnomics and the lies of “trickle down” economics, the government debt exploded.

Under the leadership of a heavily democratic congress. Regan cut taxes and vastly increased revenue to the US Treasury. The dems out spent him.

By borrowing tons of money from other countries, the habit of which the US has not outgrown, and has caused the crisis right now.

The debt doubled under Reagan and Bush, which set all of this up

And by the way, you might want to spell your hero’s name right.[/quote]

You pride yourself on whatever brains you think you have, but miss the point altogether.

DO you practice being this ignorant, being that you as so damn “smart”. or is it a fucking birth defect?

Spending increased due to democratic social programs. Plain and simple. To not get this is…well…nothing new for you.

You spell it “Reagnomics” and have the audacity to make a point of a typo on my part? Aren’t you supposed to be the fucking writer? I actually work for a living - and typing is not a part of my job description.

[quote]Clinton balanced it.

Spending was not cut, or halted until 1995 - after the revolution of 1994, and conservatives took over congress.

Clinton had been in office for all of ten months before the Republicans were elected.

Clinton gets just as much credit as the Republicans get for that budget, maybe more, because it’s his damn budget.[/quote]

Uhm…once again, your massive brain needs to kick in, if it really exists, numbnuts. Clinton took office in January 1993. You can look it up - but the January after the November election is when an elected official takes office.

HOR elections are held every 2 years. Always have been.

So - The earliest POSSIBLE election that could have been held to put republicans in charge of the house would be November 1994, and those Republicans could not take office until January 1995.

So, that would be 2 years. Not 10 fucking months.

You are forgetting the $17 billion “economic stimulus package” that was filibustered, as well as Hillaries Healthcare plan, that was also soundly defeated.

Just as much credit? Only if you are a myopic, rabid sycophant.

I’ll reply to the rest of your incredible display of genius later - but I have to go paint the damn football field right now.

[quote]rainjack wrote:

This is the biggest fucking lie you have told this year. The current crisis is squarely on the shoulders of Bill CLinton, the head in the sand fucking liberals back in 2005, and the fucknuts running F/F.

[/quote]

Please defend the assertion that the responsibility lies squarely on the shoulders of F/F.

If your defense involves the idea that this crisis is caused by a majority of home loans made over the last 5-10 years, how do you take into account that the vast majority of Mortgages were not given by F/F, but rather by ABS banks from 2003-2006?

I am aware that Conservative sources such as the National Review, especially Jonah Goldberg (yes I read the National Review) and Neil Cavuto have championed this interpretation, but for the most part it seems economically unsound and based in partisan hackery.

It is my belief that an essential function of GSEs is liquidity and many people cannot or choose not to understand this relatively simple fact. This is not all about deflecting credit risk.

[quote]dhickey wrote:
FightinIrish26 wrote:

That’s the point I was making with this.

During Reagnomics and the lies of “trickle down” economics, the government debt exploded.

Clinton balanced it.

Then Bush came in, and the debt exploded again.

From the “stop big government” republicans has come the current crisis.

Cuntlover up there is just having his scizophrenic seizure. He’ll be HH again in a couple minutes, don’t worry.

The current crisis has not come from Republicans. Have you been paying attention at all? Go read about CRA. Thank Jimmy for starting it. Thank Bill for going even further. Then go thank you budies in house for enforcing it and ignoring the warnings of the evil Republicans.

Why don’t you start here:

http://aei.org/publications/pubID.28701,filter.all/pub_detail.asp

It has a leftist slant so you should enjoy it. I’ll even provide a liberal to common sense translation for you:

strengthened CRA = caused the crisis
weakened CRA = attemped to avert disaster
increased regulation and enforcement = blackmailed banks into giving out risky loans.
lessened regulation or enforcement = quit blackmailing banks to give out risky loans.

Refer back to this as needed.

After your done with this, why don’t you try something on ACORN and see how they (funded by your liberal buddies) pressured lending institution to make these risky loans or risk a “CRA rating” hit that had financial penalties. Oh yeah, a young Obama was hired as a consultant to help them threaten the heads of banks.

After that you can do a search and see who tried to avert this disaster in 2003 and 2005 and who blocked that effort.
[/quote]

All lies. See previous posts.

Congrats on the cut and paste job. you guys are reading now. That’s a start and at least facilitates a logical discussion. I have work to do tonight but will get back to this tomorrow and show you where these sources have fallen short. I give you a few hints.

Foreclosures are a very small part of this. It’s mostly funny money. People have mentioned Mark to Market. Look it up, know it, love it.

The Business Cycle - Boom is the problem, not the bust.

Custodial Services - Companies don’t always make the loans they hold. The largest holders don’t make a majority of the loans they hold.

CRA created the standards or lack their of that the industry followed. It matters little which organizations were actually governed by CRA.

Actually those were more than hint but I will fill in more tomorrow.

[quote]Demiajax wrote:
rainjack wrote:

This is the biggest fucking lie you have told this year. The current crisis is squarely on the shoulders of Bill CLinton, the head in the sand fucking liberals back in 2005, and the fucknuts running F/F.

Please defend the assertion that the responsibility lies squarely on the shoulders of F/F.

If your defense involves the idea that this crisis is caused by a majority of home loans made over the last 5-10 years, how do you take into account that the vast majority of Mortgages were not given by F/F, but rather by ABS banks from 2003-2006?

I am aware that Conservative sources such as the National Review, especially Jonah Goldberg (yes I read the National Review) and Neil Cavuto have championed this interpretation, but for the most part it seems economically unsound and based in partisan hackery.

It is my belief that an essential function of GSEs is liquidity and many people cannot or choose not to understand this relatively simple fact. This is not all about deflecting credit risk.

[/quote]

GSE’s like F/F are awash in scandal to such an degree that they make Enron look like something on the order of stealing paper clips out of the supply closet.

How did they get that way? From the pressure by congress to increase the number of CRA participants, which is the same as an increase in subprime loans and the bullshit bookkeeping of the people running F/F.

As for the ABS’s - I assume you are referring to asset backed securities, no?

If not, please clarify. I’d also like to hear your theory on exactly how we got to the point we are right now if Fannie and Freddie are completely blameless.

[quote]dhickey wrote:
Congrats on the cut and paste job. you guys are reading now. That’s a start and at least facilitates a logical discussion. I have work to do tonight but will get back to this tomorrow and show you where these sources have fallen short. I give you a few hints.

Foreclosures are a very small part of this. It’s mostly funny money. People have mentioned Mark to Market. Look it up, know it, love it.

The Business Cycle - Boom is the problem, not the bust.

Custodial Services - Companies don’t always make the loans they hold. The largest holders don’t make a majority of the loans they hold.

CRA created the standards or lack their of that the industry followed. It matters little which organizations were actually governed by CRA.

Actually those were more than hint but I will fill in more tomorrow.[/quote]

Are you still fucking talking?

Keep your “hints” to yourself Mary.

It’s a mortgage crisis that has lead to nearly everything else.

The Democrats built the bomb. Don’t blame the bomb for blowing up. They had their reasons. They wanted low income people to be able to own a house and become beholden to the Democratic party. The unintended consequence was that many of those folks couldn’t afford a house and when the market stopped rising the banks couldn’t recover the money. For Pelosi to say Democrats had
“NO” responsibility for this crisis was comical and a lie.

Obama has no clue about what to do. McCain probably doesn’t either. More government isn’t the answer, it’s the problem. Reagan was right about that.

If you have decent credit and some money to put down you can buy a house and get a mortgage within a day or two. What you can’t get anymore is a 120% loan to value, no points, no money down, no doc loan. This scares the Dems whose constituents relied on these loans. This is more of a panic then anything else and the Democrats are scared to death that they have blood on their hands over it. If the RNC had half a brain they would be running with this day and night.

[quote]hedo wrote:

It’s a mortgage crisis that has lead to nearly everything else.

The Democrats built the bomb. Don’t blame the bomb for blowing up. They had their reasons. They wanted low income people to be able to own a house and become beholden to the Democratic party. The unintended consequence was that many of those folks couldn’t afford a house and when the market stopped rising the banks couldn’t recover the money. For Pelosi to say Democrats had
“NO” responsibility for this crisis was comical and a lie.

Obama has no clue about what to do. McCain probably doesn’t either. More government isn’t the answer, it’s the problem. Reagan was right about that.

If you have decent credit and some money to put down you can buy a house and get a mortgage within a day or two. What you can’t get anymore is a 120% loan to value, no points, no money down, no doc loan. This scares the Dems whose constituents relied on these loans. This is more of a panic then anything else and the Democrats are scared to death that they have blood on their hands over it. If the RNC had half a brain they would be running with this day and night.[/quote]

I just went through this- this is a pathetic attempt at partisanship. What was going through CLinton’s mind I don’t know, but all of the Democrats in the Senate opposed Gramm’s bill.

Deregulation is, and always has been, a Republican ideal, and that’s what has destroyed this.

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
hedo wrote:

It’s a mortgage crisis that has lead to nearly everything else.

The Democrats built the bomb. Don’t blame the bomb for blowing up. They had their reasons. They wanted low income people to be able to own a house and become beholden to the Democratic party. The unintended consequence was that many of those folks couldn’t afford a house and when the market stopped rising the banks couldn’t recover the money. For Pelosi to say Democrats had
“NO” responsibility for this crisis was comical and a lie.

Obama has no clue about what to do. McCain probably doesn’t either. More government isn’t the answer, it’s the problem. Reagan was right about that.

If you have decent credit and some money to put down you can buy a house and get a mortgage within a day or two. What you can’t get anymore is a 120% loan to value, no points, no money down, no doc loan. This scares the Dems whose constituents relied on these loans. This is more of a panic then anything else and the Democrats are scared to death that they have blood on their hands over it. If the RNC had half a brain they would be running with this day and night.

I just went through this- this is a pathetic attempt at partisanship. What was going through CLinton’s mind I don’t know, but all of the Democrats in the Senate opposed Gramm’s bill.

Deregulation is, and always has been, a Republican ideal, and that’s what has destroyed this. [/quote]

A pathetic attempt at partisanship would be to deny all responsibility and blame the other party like Pelosi did. Trying to gloss over years of Democratic support and calls for less review of Fannie and Freddie simply cannot be ignored any longer. Simply pointing it out isn’t an attempt at partisanship it’s a statement of previously published facts. Review and oversight isn’t always bad.

Expecting the Democrats to lead the country out of crisis, when they were firmly involved in creating it, is foolish.

The government isn’t going to legislate prosperity and wealth despite Democratic fantasies. The free market economy however is capable of doing both if it is permitted to. (lower taxes)

[quote]hedo wrote:
<<< If the RNC had half a brain they would be running with this day and night.[/quote]

But they don’t though, at least not yet.