Who's Fault?

[quote]Inner Hulk wrote:
AynRandLuvr wrote:
Under the guise of helping the poor, you libs created a system that simply destroys everyone. Good job!

You fulfilled Abe Lincoln’s prediction that we would be brought down by our ‘vandals from within’. You libs created that, you dumb fucks.

Yeah, spending and debt, to help the aged, the poor, the minorities. Look where it got you, country-killing bastards! Now go suck OBama’s dick in your favorite Larry Sinclair imitation.
You’re an idiot.

And nothing’s wrong with some programs to help people HERE in the UNITED STATES. Smaller countries with less resources pull it off with ease.[/quote]

Horse-fucking-shit. All these programs did was bankrupt this great country. Time after time, the Soviet Union, Red China, Cambodia, on and on all tried this same fucking philosophy. How many fucking slaughterhouses do you guys have to have before you give up your insane fucking philosophy?

I get tired of debating dumb fucks who insist on arguing the merits of going bankrupt. Are you people bound and determined to ruin this country? You’ve already built up trillions in debt. Trillions! Your philosophy is dead and the country is on life support. Go away. Just go the fuck away, already.

[quote]Rockscar wrote:
AynRandLuvr wrote:
Now go suck OBama’s dick in your favorite Larry Sinclair imitation.

Barney Frank is already in line on his knees.[/quote]

I consider you a friend, so I’m just going to say that’s out of line.

Homophobia doesn’t have a place here.

[quote]Ren wrote:
AynRandLuvr wrote:
Under the guise of helping the poor, you libs created a system that simply destroys everyone. Good job!

You fulfilled Abe Lincoln’s prediction that we would be brought down by our ‘vandals from within’. You libs created that, you dumb fucks.

Yeah, spending and debt, to help the aged, the poor, the minorities. Look where it got you, country-killing bastards! Now go suck OBama’s dick in your favorite Larry Sinclair imitation.

Your a fucking idiot. Especially when you consider that the greatest increases in government have come under Republican presidents.

I think you would choke on your own words if you saw the spending that has increased the deficit, and welfare was a small part of it. [/quote]

That’s the point I was making with this.

During Reagnomics and the lies of “trickle down” economics, the government debt exploded.

Clinton balanced it.

Then Bush came in, and the debt exploded again.

From the “stop big government” republicans has come the current crisis.

Cuntlover up there is just having his scizophrenic seizure. He’ll be HH again in a couple minutes, don’t worry.

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
Rockscar wrote:
AynRandLuvr wrote:
Now go suck OBama’s dick in your favorite Larry Sinclair imitation.

Barney Frank is already in line on his knees.

I consider you a friend, so I’m just going to say that’s out of line.

Homophobia doesn’t have a place here.[/quote]

I don’t think he was condeming you for sucking cock. I think he was criticizing you for being a race mixer. Better stick to the Irish cocks?

[quote]Rockscar wrote:

It’s time for Captalistic Darwinism to take center stage![/quote]

See, this is what you guys refuse to acknowledge- unbridled capitalism leads to corruption and excessive greed, which causes the problems like we have today.

You guys truly are delusional.

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
Ren wrote:
AynRandLuvr wrote:
Under the guise of helping the poor, you libs created a system that simply destroys everyone. Good job!

You fulfilled Abe Lincoln’s prediction that we would be brought down by our ‘vandals from within’. You libs created that, you dumb fucks.

Yeah, spending and debt, to help the aged, the poor, the minorities. Look where it got you, country-killing bastards! Now go suck OBama’s dick in your favorite Larry Sinclair imitation.

Your a fucking idiot. Especially when you consider that the greatest increases in government have come under Republican presidents.

I think you would choke on your own words if you saw the spending that has increased the deficit, and welfare was a small part of it.

That’s the point I was making with this.

During Reagnomics and the lies of “trickle down” economics, the government debt exploded.

Clinton balanced it.

Then Bush came in, and the debt exploded again.

From the “stop big government” republicans has come the current crisis.

Cuntlover up there is just having his scizophrenic seizure. He’ll be HH again in a couple minutes, don’t worry.

[/quote]

Wouldn’t it be a bit more fair to say, Reagan and a Democrat Congress. And, Clinton and a Republican Congress?

[quote]dhickey wrote:
FightinIrish26 wrote:
Rockscar wrote:
AynRandLuvr wrote:
Now go suck OBama’s dick in your favorite Larry Sinclair imitation.

Barney Frank is already in line on his knees.

I consider you a friend, so I’m just going to say that’s out of line.

Homophobia doesn’t have a place here.

I don’t think he was condeming you for sucking cock. I think he was criticizing you for being a race mixer. Better stick to the Irish cocks?[/quote]

Barney Frank is gay. If you don’t like him because of his politics, that’s fine. But throwing out something like that makes Rockscar seem very ignorant and extremely bigoted. He’s better than that.

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:

That’s the point I was making with this.

During Reagnomics and the lies of “trickle down” economics, the government debt exploded.[/quote]

Under the leadership of a heavily democratic congress. Regan cut taxes and vastly increased revenue to the US Treasury. The dems out spent him.

Spending was not cut, or halted until 1995 - after the revolution of 1994, and conservatives took over congress.

This is the biggest fucking lie you have told this year. The current crisis is squarely on the shoulders of Bill CLinton, the head in the sand fucking liberals back in 2005, and the fucknuts running F/F.

I can’t understand how one blames the Republican solely (I believe the Republicans are to be blamed for cowardice, actually) when there’s video of that 2005 hearing for anyone to watch.

[quote]Sloth wrote:
I can’t understand how one blames the Republican solely (I believe the Republicans are to be blamed for cowardice, actually) when there’s video of that 2005 hearing for anyone to watch.[/quote]

Oh that’s easy. Partisan dipshits. Irish is the poster boy. He hasn’t provided an intelligent argument since he has been back in this forum.

The entirity of his posts can be summed up in 2 sentences:

  1. George Bush is Satan, and the whole world sucks because of him the republicans.

  2. Sarah Palin is a pig.

The only reason to engage him is to get him would up so you can watch him go off the handle.

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:

That’s the point I was making with this.

During Reagnomics and the lies of “trickle down” economics, the government debt exploded.

Clinton balanced it.

Then Bush came in, and the debt exploded again.

From the “stop big government” republicans has come the current crisis.

Cuntlover up there is just having his scizophrenic seizure. He’ll be HH again in a couple minutes, don’t worry.

[/quote]

The current crisis has not come from Republicans. Have you been paying attention at all? Go read about CRA. Thank Jimmy for starting it. Thank Bill for going even further. Then go thank you budies in house for enforcing it and ignoring the warnings of the evil Republicans.

Why don’t you start here:

http://aei.org/publications/pubID.28701,filter.all/pub_detail.asp

It has a leftist slant so you should enjoy it. I’ll even provide a liberal to common sense translation for you:

strengthened CRA = caused the crisis
weakened CRA = attemped to avert disaster
increased regulation and enforcement = blackmailed banks into giving out risky loans.
lessened regulation or enforcement = quit blackmailing banks to give out risky loans.

Refer back to this as needed.

After your done with this, why don’t you try something on ACORN and see how they (funded by your liberal buddies) pressured lending institution to make these risky loans or risk a “CRA rating” hit that had financial penalties. Oh yeah, a young Obama was hired as a consultant to help them threaten the heads of banks.

After that you can do a search and see who tried to avert this disaster in 2003 and 2005 and who blocked that effort.

[quote]rainjack wrote:
Sloth wrote:
I can’t understand how one blames the Republican solely (I believe the Republicans are to be blamed for cowardice, actually) when there’s video of that 2005 hearing for anyone to watch.

Oh that’s easy. Partisan dipshits. Irish is the poster boy. He hasn’t provided an intelligent argument since he has been back in this forum.

The entirity of his posts can be summed up in 2 sentences:

  1. George Bush is Satan, and the whole world sucks because of him the republicans.

  2. Sarah Palin is a pig.

The only reason to engage him is to get him would up so you can watch him go off the handle. [/quote]

HAHA!!

And you’re any different?

  1. Obama is a Communist and America will break up and fall into the ocean if he’s elected.

2…

Oh fuck you’ve only got one. Hm. You might want to work on that.

And as for going off the handle, you’re exactly the same way, so that holds as much water as the broken condom you came from.

[quote]dhickey wrote:
FightinIrish26 wrote:

That’s the point I was making with this.

During Reagnomics and the lies of “trickle down” economics, the government debt exploded.

Clinton balanced it.

Then Bush came in, and the debt exploded again.

From the “stop big government” republicans has come the current crisis.

Cuntlover up there is just having his scizophrenic seizure. He’ll be HH again in a couple minutes, don’t worry.

The current crisis has not come from Republicans. Have you been paying attention at all? Go read about CRA. Thank Jimmy for starting it. Thank Bill for going even further. Then go thank you budies in house for enforcing it and ignoring the warnings of the evil Republicans.

Why don’t you start here:

http://aei.org/publications/pubID.28701,filter.all/pub_detail.asp

It has a leftist slant so you should enjoy it. I’ll even provide a liberal to common sense translation for you:

strengthened CRA = caused the crisis
weakened CRA = attemped to avert disaster
increased regulation and enforcement = blackmailed banks into giving out risky loans.
lessened regulation or enforcement = quit blackmailing banks to give out risky loans.

Refer back to this as needed.

After your done with this, why don’t you try something on ACORN and see how they (funded by your liberal buddies) pressured lending institution to make these risky loans or risk a “CRA rating” hit that had financial penalties. Oh yeah, a young Obama was hired as a consultant to help them threaten the heads of banks.

After that you can do a search and see who tried to avert this disaster in 2003 and 2005 and who blocked that effort.
[/quote]

I’ll do my own research on the subject. I’d put my dick in blender before I trusted some halfwit dumbass like you to give me anything of use besides crappy jokes and empty posts.

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
dhickey wrote:
FightinIrish26 wrote:
Rockscar wrote:
AynRandLuvr wrote:
Now go suck OBama’s dick in your favorite Larry Sinclair imitation.

Barney Frank is already in line on his knees.

I consider you a friend, so I’m just going to say that’s out of line.

Homophobia doesn’t have a place here.

I don’t think he was condeming you for sucking cock. I think he was criticizing you for being a race mixer. Better stick to the Irish cocks?

Barney Frank is gay. If you don’t like him because of his politics, that’s fine. But throwing out something like that makes Rockscar seem very ignorant and extremely bigoted. He’s better than that.
[/quote]

I just thought it was funny. I don’t like him for what he does both in and out of the office. If it makes me bad, then OK. I have plenty of gay friends, so I’m not a homophobe either.

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
rainjack wrote:
Sloth wrote:
I can’t understand how one blames the Republican solely (I believe the Republicans are to be blamed for cowardice, actually) when there’s video of that 2005 hearing for anyone to watch.

Oh that’s easy. Partisan dipshits. Irish is the poster boy. He hasn’t provided an intelligent argument since he has been back in this forum.

The entirity of his posts can be summed up in 2 sentences:

  1. George Bush is Satan, and the whole world sucks because of him the republicans.

  2. Sarah Palin is a pig.

The only reason to engage him is to get him would up so you can watch him go off the handle.

HAHA!!

And you’re any different?

  1. Obama is a Communist and America will break up and fall into the ocean if he’s elected.

2…

Oh fuck you’ve only got one. Hm. You might want to work on that.

And as for going off the handle, you’re exactly the same way, so that holds as much water as the broken condom you came from. [/quote]

You need to read more.

Whoops. Look who I am talking to.

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:

I’ll do my own research on the subject. I’d put my dick in blender before I trusted some halfwit dumbass like you to give me anything of use besides crappy jokes and empty posts.[/quote]

OUCH! Just thinking about that made me wince.

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
I’ll do my own research on the subject. I’d put my dick in blender before I trusted some halfwit dumbass like you to give me anything of use besides crappy jokes and empty posts.[/quote]

Let me give you a couple of links:

www.dialykos.com

What the fuck am I saying - that’s where you get all of your “facts”.

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
dhickey wrote:
FightinIrish26 wrote:

That’s the point I was making with this.

During Reagnomics and the lies of “trickle down” economics, the government debt exploded.

Clinton balanced it.

Then Bush came in, and the debt exploded again.

From the “stop big government” republicans has come the current crisis.

Cuntlover up there is just having his scizophrenic seizure. He’ll be HH again in a couple minutes, don’t worry.

The current crisis has not come from Republicans. Have you been paying attention at all? Go read about CRA. Thank Jimmy for starting it. Thank Bill for going even further. Then go thank you budies in house for enforcing it and ignoring the warnings of the evil Republicans.

Why don’t you start here:

http://aei.org/publications/pubID.28701,filter.all/pub_detail.asp

It has a leftist slant so you should enjoy it. I’ll even provide a liberal to common sense translation for you:

strengthened CRA = caused the crisis
weakened CRA = attemped to avert disaster
increased regulation and enforcement = blackmailed banks into giving out risky loans.
lessened regulation or enforcement = quit blackmailing banks to give out risky loans.

Refer back to this as needed.

After your done with this, why don’t you try something on ACORN and see how they (funded by your liberal buddies) pressured lending institution to make these risky loans or risk a “CRA rating” hit that had financial penalties. Oh yeah, a young Obama was hired as a consultant to help them threaten the heads of banks.

After that you can do a search and see who tried to avert this disaster in 2003 and 2005 and who blocked that effort.

I’ll do my own research on the subject. I’d put my dick in blender before I trusted some halfwit dumbass like you to give me anything of use besides crappy jokes and empty posts.[/quote]
One more liberal translation for those that don’t speak the language:

Empty = facts and logic.

It’s obvious that you do zero research. It must be liberating to be free of any knowledge of history and logic. You’re mind is free to soar and imagine what you would have liked to happen.

I even gave you leftist article from UC Davis. You still can’t manage to read and understand it. If I post it on the daily KOS will you read it?

[quote]rainjack wrote:
FightinIrish26 wrote:

That’s the point I was making with this.

During Reagnomics and the lies of “trickle down” economics, the government debt exploded.

Under the leadership of a heavily democratic congress. Regan cut taxes and vastly increased revenue to the US Treasury. The dems out spent him.
[/quote]

By borrowing tons of money from other countries, the habit of which the US has not outgrown, and has caused the crisis right now.

The debt doubled under Reagan and Bush, which set all of this up

And by the way, you might want to spell your hero’s name right.

Clinton had been in office for all of ten months before the Republicans were elected.

Clinton gets just as much credit as the Republicans get for that budget, maybe more, because it’s his damn budget.

And what happened to all the shit you conservatives cut?

The Republican Congress has enthusiastically assisted the budget bloat. Inflation-adjusted spending on the combined budgets of the 101 largest programs they vowed to eliminate in 1995 has grown by 27 percent.

http://www.cato.org/pub_display.php?pub_id=3750

Whoops, I don’t think so. See the next article.

And besides that, there is that massive costly foreign war that has drained the economy and sent the debt into the stratosphere. Where would be, without those billions upon billions sent overseas? Where? Certainly not here.

Bush can share the blame for financial crisis


By Mark Landler and Sheryl Gay Stolberg Published: September 20, 2008

WASHINGTON: For his entire presidency, George W. Bush has tried to avoid the fate of his father: brought low by a feeble economy. Now, as the financial crisis radiates far beyond Wall Street, Bush faces an even grimmer prospect: being blamed, at least in part, for an economic breakdown.

“There will be ample opportunity to debate the origins of this problem,” Bush said Friday in a televised address from the White House Rose Garden. “Now is the time to solve it.”

But in Washington and on Wall Street, the debate has already begun. And while economists and other experts say there are plenty of culprits: Democrats and Republicans in Congress, the Federal Reserve, an overzealous home-lending industry, banks, and also Bush’s predecessor, Bill Clinton - they do agree that the Bush administration bears part of the blame.

These experts, from both political parties, say Bush’s early personnel choices and overarching antipathy toward regulation created a climate that, if it did not trigger the turmoil, almost certainly aggravated it. The president’s first two Treasury secretaries, for instance, lacked the kind of Wall Street expertise that might have helped them raise red flags about the use of complex financial instruments at the heart of the crisis.

To his credit, Bush accurately foresaw the danger posed by Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae, and began calling as early as 2002 for greater regulation of the mortgage giants. But experts say the administration could have done even more to curb excesses in the housing market, and much more to police Wall Street, which transmitted those problems around the world.

In retrospect, “it would have helped for the Bush administration to empower the folks at Treasury and the Federal Reserve and the comptroller of the currency and the FDIC to look at these issues more closely,” said Vince Reinhardt, a former Federal Reserve economist now at the American Enterprise Institute, a conservative-leaning research organization here. Reinhardt said it would also have helped “for Congress to have held hearings.”

Instead, voices inside the administration who favored tougher policing of Wall Street found themselves with few supporters. William Donaldson, a former Wall Street executive with respected Republican credentials who became chairman of the Securities and Exchange Commission under Bush, quit in 2005 after facing resistance from the White House and Republican members of the panel, who criticized his support for stiffer regulations on mutual funds and hedge funds.

Today, even those sympathetic to Bush say he cannot disentangle himself from a home-lending industry run amok or a banking industry that mortgaged its future on toxic loans.

“The crisis definitely happened on their watch,” said Kenneth Rogoff, a professor of economics at Harvard University who advises the Republican presidential candidate John McCain. “This is eight years into the Bush administration. There was a lot of time to deal with it.”

To some extent, Bush was simply following a deregulatory pattern set by Clinton. Perhaps the most significant recent deregulation of the banking industry - the landmark act that allowed commercial banks to expand into other financial activities, like investment banking and insurance - was signed into law by Clinton in 1999.

Bush also inherited a culture of borrowing and a frothy housing market that has become “deeply embedded in the American psyche,” Rogoff said. And Reinhardt said the markets seemed to be doing so well that few analysts, either in government or the private sector, had a critical eye.

“When everybody is doing better,” Rogoff said, “it is difficult to see the underlying weaknesses.”

Still, the White House, in the view of critics, fostered a free-market hothouse in which these excesses were able to flower. It avoided regulation of banks and mortgage brokers, leaving much of that work to the Federal Reserve, which, under Alan Greenspan, showed little appetite for regulation. By the time Bush’s current Treasury secretary, Henry Paulson Jr., proposed an overhaul of regulations governing the financial sector in April, the storm was already brewing.

The administration did push hard on Capitol Hill to rein in Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, only to find itself stymied by Congress. But the administration’s intense focus on fending off what it foresaw as a looming housing crisis did not extend to the proliferation of fiendishly complex mortgage-backed securities, said Harvey Rosen, an economist who served on Bush’s Council of Economic Advisers, briefly as its chairman.

“Maybe there should have been,” Rosen said, “but we were focused more on the fact that if these entities just held plain-vanilla mortgage-backed securities, it was still a disaster in the making.”

Beyond its deregulatory bent, some economists argue that the administration’s fiscal and tax policies made the United States more dependent on foreign capital, which fueled the bubble in housing prices.

“A different Treasury would have taken a different approach,” said Lawrence Summers, who served as Treasury secretary in the Clinton administration. “I don’t think the economy has been well-managed, and that has certainly been crucial for the problems we’re facing.”

The White House and Congress wanted to make housing affordable to more Americans, and freeing up the lending markets was a way to do that. As Rogoff said, “It was a market-based way to help poor people. There was an incredible belief in free markets.”

For all that faith, Bush’s first two Treasury secretaries, Paul O’Neill and John Snow, came from top jobs in industry, not Wall Street. They were viewed in Washington as advocating the interests of business, and being less comfortable with the mysteries of the markets.

Neither was seen as having much influence with the White House, and the Treasury lost some of the primacy in economic policy it had enjoyed under Summers and his predecessor, Robert Rubin. O’Neill and Snow declined to be interviewed for this article.

“The primary agency responsible for keeping an eye on these things is, and should be, the Treasury Department, and I think the president erred in the first place by appointing two secretaries who had no background in finance,” said Bruce Bartlett, a Republican economist who was an adviser to President Ronald Reagan and an official in the Treasury Department under President George H.W. Bush.

“If we had had a Treasury that was fully supported by the White House,” Bartlett said, “and a Treasury secretary such as Hank Paulson who was really attuned to what was going on in the financial markets, maybe some of these things could have been perceived in advance.”

The White House did name people well-versed in the markets to other posts, not least the chairmanship of the Securities and Exchange Commission. But Bush’s first SEC chairman - Harvey Pitt, a prominent securities lawyer - was brought down by political missteps. Pitt was replaced by Donaldson, who quit in 2005.

Critics, including McCain, say the SEC has been less active under its current chairman, Christopher Cox, a former Republican congressman from California. It has spent less on enforcement and levied less in fines on wrongdoers, according to the Government Accountability Office.

“You can’t overestimate what happens when you encourage regulators to believe that the goal of regulation is not to regulate,” said Joseph Stiglitz, a Nobel Prize-winning economist at Columbia University.

In other areas, the Bush administration’s failures seem more a case of inaction. The administration, economists said, did little to curb the practices of mortgage brokers, who are regulated by the states. But Democrats in Congress were equally to blame for this, these economists said.

“The Democrats pushed affordable housing goals, even in the face of evidence that people who got the loans shouldn’t have gotten them,” said Robert Litan, a senior fellow at the Brookings Institution, a research organization in Washington. “The no-money-down loans of 2005 and 2006 were a key part of the problem.”

“I blame the Democrats for demanding that Fannie Mae keep buying these loans,” said Litan, who was a budget official in the Clinton administration. “I blame the administration for going along with it.”

White House officials note that the administration did propose reforms of real estate settlement procedures and the Federal Housing Authority, two areas it had identified as posing the greatest systemic risk to markets. Democrats in Congress, they said, blocked these efforts.

When Bush named Paulson to replace Snow in 2006, the Treasury Department finally got an expert in markets. But early on, his focus was on improving the competitiveness of the U.S. financial sector, which he feared was losing ground to Europe and Asia