Who Should Be Held Accountable

Off Topic
41

If you had no money and no way to get out what would you do, if nobody was there to help?

1- stay and suffer the consequences (ie.die)
2- ITS CALLED USE YOUR FEET and help yourself survive, cuz nobody else will walk for you. (ie. live)

If I had no money and no means of transportation, I would bring what I could and use my feet, which God gave me to save my own ass. Rich or poor, the choice is still yours, life or death, excuses dont help you get anywhere. So instead of waiting for someone to help you, start by helping yourself.

PS. And I am also sure that those who stayed behind to steal TV’s werent capable of leaving town right? The government isnt your babysitter.

42

Did anyone see the photos of the hundreds of school buses sitting - unused - half covered in water?

If they could carry 50 people apiece, 1000 buses could have hauled off 50000 folks in the first round. And I bet you wouldn;t have had to have 50 bucks to get on one.

Yet they were never even started.

Yeah - that damn Bush. He hates blacks.

43

[quote]reddog6376 wrote:
New Orleans has been below sea level since the city was formed. Every NO mayor & LA governor for the last 200+ years has been aware of that fact. None of them did an adequate job of protecting the city. The current mayor & gov. didn’t bother to implement & follow their own hurricane disaster plan. To try & blame any of this on Bush is nothing more than partisan bullshit. IMO the federal gov’t (which probably has little to do with Bush) is doing an outstanding job of cleaning up the cluster fuck that LA & NO officials have created with thier malfesence.

[/quote]

Once again I never said that it was all Bush’s fault. He is however the president of the United States, and should take some measure of responsibility, especially for the current state of FEMA. Had Bush placed a more competent person in there rather than GOP activist Mike Brown (he said that he was unaware that there were stranded people in New Orleans till Thursday), the situation might have been much better.

44

[quote]If I had no money and no means of transportation, I would bring what I could and use my feet, which God gave me to save my own ass. Rich or poor, the choice is still yours, life or death, excuses dont help you get anywhere. So instead of waiting for someone to help you, start by helping yourself.

PS. And I am also sure that those who stayed behind to steal TV’s werent capable of leaving town right? The government isnt your babysitter.[/quote]

Wow, you are my hero Mike.

I’m sure spending the entire day walking and then being caught outdoors overnight with family and children while a category four hurricane blasts around you would be a wonderful survival tactic.

If it wasn’t so sad it would be laughable.

It’s got nothing to do with government as a babysitter. It has to do with the reality of the situation… which you don’t seem to fathom.

Finally, again, the fact that there are some bad people in society should be no surprise to anyone. Blaming everyone who stayed behind for the criminal actions of a few is the height of ignorance.

45

[quote]Soco wrote:

Once again I never said that it was all Bush’s fault. He is however the president of the United States, and should take some measure of responsibility, especially for the current state of FEMA. Had Bush placed a more competent person in there rather than GOP activist Mike Brown (he said that he was unaware that there were stranded people in New Orleans till Thursday), the situation might have been much better. [/quote]

Sat. AM Bush released federal funds for recovery efforts. 2 days before the hurricane hit.

Monday, as the hurricane was hitting NO, FEMA had medical teams, rescue squads and groups prepared to supply food and water poised in a semicircle around the city.

Monday morning the levee breaks making getting to much of the city impossible.

Tuesday morning At the request of FEMA, the military begins to move additional ships and helicopters to the region.

By Tue. afternoon, FEMA deployed 23 Disaster Medical Assistance Teams from all across the U.S. to staging areas in Alabama, Tennessee, Texas, and Louisiana and is now moving them into impacted areas.

Seven Urban Search and Rescue task forces and two Incident Support Teams have been deployed and propositioned in Shreveport, La., and Jackson, Miss., including teams from Florida, Indiana, Ohio, Maryland, Missouri, Tennessee, Texas, and Virginia. Three more Urban Search and Rescue teams are in the process of deployment.

FEMA is moving supplies and equipment into the hardest hit areas as quickly as possible, especially water, ice, meals, medical supplies, generators, tents, and tarps.

The U.S. Department of Transportation (DOT) dispatched more than 390 trucks that are beginning to deliver millions of meals ready to eat, millions of liters of water, tarps, millions of pounds of ice, mobile homes, generators, containers of disaster supplies, and forklifts to flood damaged areas. DOT has helicopters and a plane assisting delivery of essential supplies.

The National Guard of the four most heavily impacted states are providing support to civil authorities as well as generator, medical and shelter with approximately 7,500 troops on State Active Duty. The National Guard is augmenting civilian law enforcement capacity; not acting in lieu of it.

By 10 AM Wed. FEMA had provided 475 buses to help evacuate the Superdome.

We. afternoon, Governor Blanco issues an Executive Order allowing the National Guard to seize school busses in order to help in the evacuation(which were already under water).

All from http://rightwingnuthouse.com/archives/2005/09/04/katrina-response-timeline

Did FEMA perform flawlessly? Of course not, but IMO they did as best as a gargantuate beauacracy could do.

46

[quote]rainjack wrote:
futuredave wrote:
Are you saying people have some sort of obligation to think about their safety and that of their families? That people who live in a flood zone below sea level should have an escape plan in case a hurricane is coming?

Why, you elitist Canadian, you! Preaching personal responsibility! For shame!

What is going on here? First WMD authors a post that I agree with, now futuredave has me nodding my head as well.

I’m gonna go lay down for a while. [/quote]

Believe it or not, I actually consider myself a conservative, who’s been abandoned by the conservative party. I don’t do drugs and I’m not gay, but I’m pro legalization of drugs and homo marriage, even though I think gay sex is really… ghey. But I don’t think it’s any of the gumments goddamn bidness.

I’m also big on personal responsibility. I lived in N.O. It was a fucking cesspool of crime before the hurricane. You just don’t hear about it because it’s a tourist destination. A city who’s slogan is “Laissez les bon temps roulez!” (Let the good times roll). Not “Hey, let’s be prepared in case of an emergency.”

I think this horrible situation has plenty of blame to spare. From the individuals who weren’t prepared to the mayor and governor to Michael Brown and yes, to Bush for appointing the numbnutz in the first place.

I read this morning where the city had actually already filmed PSA’s telling folks that if there ever were a hurricane, they needed to make sure that they somehow had a ride out of the city. The PSA’s just hadn’t aired yet. Why you need someone to tell you that, I don’t know.

And no, I don’t believe that everybody who stayed didn’t have $50 to their names. Hell, look at all the people still in their houses who are still refusing to leave. On the other hands, as for walking out of the city, that’s impossible. There is literally no place to walk. It’s all swamps and lake and ocean around for miles and miles and miles.

But I tell you this, I live in an earthquake zone and this whole thing has made me rethink my own lack of preparedness and lack of gun-ness.

47

[quote]dollarbill44 wrote:
You left out the rest of the world for standing around for decades and not developing anti-hurricane fans in the atmosphere and God for creating natural disasters to begin with. Blaming the American People? Come on. I have enough to do in my life than to keep up with prevention of all types of disasters and public issues. I don’t get enough sleep as it is.

DB
[/quote]

Last time I checked, people in NO are Americans. This was an issue in the communities of the affected areas for a long time, but nobody really cared too much about it. Sure, hindsight is 20-20, but it would be short sighted to forget the fact that this sort of disaster was predicted almost to a tee and was known to be inevitable for many, many years.

48

[quote]mike08042 wrote:
If you had no money and no way to get out what would you do, if nobody was there to help?

1- stay and suffer the consequences (ie.die)
2- ITS CALLED USE YOUR FEET and help yourself survive, cuz nobody else will walk for you. (ie. live)

If I had no money and no means of transportation, I would bring what I could and use my feet, which God gave me to save my own ass. Rich or poor, the choice is still yours, life or death, excuses dont help you get anywhere. So instead of waiting for someone to help you, start by helping yourself.

PS. And I am also sure that those who stayed behind to steal TV’s werent capable of leaving town right? The government isnt your babysitter.[/quote]

This is fucking hilarious. You claim that you would WALK through a Cat 4 hurricane with your family, clothes, dog, and…what, an umbrella? Hahahaha!!

Seriously, you don’t even know what a hurricane even remotely feels like, do you?

Walk.

Hahahahahaha!

Have any of you people even met a poor person? I mean, if Mike thinks like this, I can only assume that everyone he knows has a computer in their house with internet connection, a full screen tv and cable. This post here has to win the award for the most clueless and insensitive perspective on this whole situation that I have read on this forum.

Tell me, Mike, who paid for college?

49

[quote]Panther1015 wrote:
dollarbill44 wrote:
You left out the rest of the world for standing around for decades and not developing anti-hurricane fans in the atmosphere and God for creating natural disasters to begin with. Blaming the American People? Come on. I have enough to do in my life than to keep up with prevention of all types of disasters and public issues. I don’t get enough sleep as it is.

DB

Last time I checked, people in NO are Americans. This was an issue in the communities of the affected areas for a long time, but nobody really cared too much about it. Sure, hindsight is 20-20, but it would be short sighted to forget the fact that this sort of disaster was predicted almost to a tee and was known to be inevitable for many, many years.[/quote]

Here’s what you said:

"The American People:

  • for being complacent and not being more aware of issues in their nation, state and local juristiction."

If you meant the people of NO, LA or the region, you didn’t specify this. Your statement implies that all Americans should have been more aware of this issue as it concerns “their nation.” Tell me, are you aware of the potential deficiencies of the emergency HAZMAT response teams in Edgewood, MD? How about the level of preparedness for massive tornado damage in Mansfield, OH? What about the maintenance of flood abatement structures in Roanoke, VA?

It’s one thing to blame local citizens for not being aware of their own regions and something completely different to blame the residents of the entire U.S. for not being aware of and concerned about the dangers inherent to living in every nook and cranny in the country. It’s a big country with countless dangers. It’s too easy to point fingers indiscriminitely.

DB

50

The head of FEMA admitted to waiting 5 hours before taking any action and this is unacceptable, even a total moron can tell that New Orleans needed help. Time wasted=more deaths. This is inexcusable. People have been fired for much less.

51

Dollarbill, you’re grasping at straws bro. I answered your question in my first sentence: “Last time I checked, people in NO were Americans”. Take that however you wish. There’s plenty of blame to go around, how about we all shut the fuck up and help these people out however we can? Sounds like a pretty damn good idea to me…

52

I found myself nodding my head throughout reading this entire piece. It seems to get at a lot of the questions I had about what the local/state authorities were doing or not doing in terms of actions during Katrina or planning for an event like this.

The best laid plans of mice and men… well, if you don’t implement them, they don’t do you much good.

Kuz

53

Are we blaming presidents Carter and Reagan for the Mt. St. Helens eruption in 1980?

Nope.

How can the responsibility of this disaster fall on the shoulders of Mr. Bush? His responsibility is GLOBAL and when a GLOBAL response has been warranted as in the Tsunami over Christmas it has been expeditious and effective.

This domestic disaster or the preparedness thereof is the responsibility of the local gov’ts. The thing that keeps ringing clear to me is that the gulf, Louisiana and N.O. especially, were not prepared. Everyone down there was in a bar preparing for the next Mardi-Gras and not planning for the big Cat-4 that would eventually occur. Build up the levy’s, hindsight reveals that the whole notion of building up the levy’s would have been a smart thing to do, but no-one pulled the trigger on it. I’d be curious to see if that issue was on any agenda of any state representative in Louisiana.

The Mayor of that city fucking failed. When I think of an example of good civic leaders in the time of crisis I think of Mayor Giuliani during the 911 disaster.

This guy is not, in any shape way or form Mayor Giuliani. He’s barking about getting help, but not being a leader what-so-ever. He needs to be out there, supporting the rescue efforts, kissing the old lady’s, reassuring the children, not griping on the radio while his city stews in it’s own flooded sewage-ridden streets.

The city and state should look at this as their failure initially. Of course, FEMA, the Red Cross, and the Domestic emergency response services should look in the mirror and recognize their errors as well, but as discussed in previous threads concerning all kinds of topics, “an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure”

This didn’t have to be as bad as it was, and it got that bad especially in LA and N.O. becuase the local good ol’ boys decided it was a better idea to look the other way and not worry about the impending catastrophe. They failed their own people on an issue that could have been handled at the lowest of legislative levels.

GAINER

54

People were warned like a least a day or two in advance to evac and get their asses out of there, but those people thought to themselves oh it’s not gonna be that bad…and they got fucked…and the government is prepared for shit like this they have Large warehouses full of firefighting, USAR and mass EMS supplies available to people in case of these large incidents, and the governor knows about it, yet he does nothing, and there is a shit load of aid available through the nation,

in california my unit has told them we’ll send what we can yet they have not called for help, so if anything it is the local governments fault for this whole world of shit they are in. the fact that the person in charge of FEMA and Homeland Security are all beurorats (sp?) who have never been in a stressful incident in their lives doesn’t help, but they have people who are oversight and they know what to do.

55

Having lived among my share of “poor people” growing up, I couldn’t help but notice that they never did anything to help themselves. Pure cattle living off of welfare and any other freebees the gov would dole out. Every day was another poor decision or lazy-assed move on their part. Whining constantly about the government that they depended on for everything. I just can’t find blame in this situation for any administration, federal,local or otherwise. When a natural disaster hits, the most exposed to tragedy are the poor. Fact of life. We can’t change this. When the levee breaks, momma you got to move.

56

I’m still seeing massively lacking compassion around here.

It doesn’t matter why they ended up in a bad situation. When your fellow citizens are suffering from the effects of a disaster like this, they deserve help.

You don’t turn your back and not worry about death and suffering because poor decisions were made at various points, do you?

57

[quote]vroom wrote:
I’m still seeing massively lacking compassion around here.

It doesn’t matter why they ended up in a bad situation. When your fellow citizens are suffering from the effects of a disaster like this, they deserve help.

You don’t turn your back and not worry about death and suffering because poor decisions were made at various points, do you?[/quote]

It seems to be a growing attitude in America…to forget about those less fortunate and run them over on your way to success. I would say something along the lines of forgetting where you came from, but by many of these posts, I can only assume that most who think this way either never experienced being poor or think it can never happen to them or those they care about.

I wonder how loudly the new changes to bankruptcy claims are being applauded right now.

58

[quote]thabigdon24 wrote:
Im seriously blaming the conflict in Iraq for this… i read in the newspaper that NO got far less than what was needed on an upgrade for the levees. Iraq is the biggest leach i have ever seen as far as milatary manpower and more importantly fundage. I can gaurantee, that the levees will never agaain not get the funding that they need

[/quote]

There has never been a more accurate statment. i just got back from iraq and was working detainee operations. like in abu guarab. and other places.

the money that the U.S. spends on food,clothing,medical supplys,even smokes for the nice iraqie insurgents. is unbeleivable.

then factor in what u have to spend on the troops we get the same thing. just no smokes. pluse fuel. weapons,ammo,and contractors. who by the way are iraqies. that map out our base so they can fire mortars at us when we sleep.

and the bill is unbelievable.

there are alote of detainees in iraq. in the tens of thousands.

plus all the guard and reserve are over there for 12 months. there was hardley any left to send to N.O.