So, they’re what, animatronic animals or something? That’s silly.
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Lol I meant the property rights
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They are real, but they are not natural.
How does a scientist discover these natural rights?
You’re getting stuck on literal definitions instead of the commonly agreed upon terminology of essentially all of society
Despite the plethora of good-natured racial slurs I’ve uttered in this thread, I think one of the notable accomplishments of liberal/progressives in my lifetime is to clean up the language we use with each other in everyday life. It needed to happen.
My father wasn’t altogether unlike Walt Kowalski, albeit a decade or so younger. He got out of the Army in '67. He was born and raised in the upper Midwest and he spent his post-service years being a professional hardass, bouncing in some of Milwaukee’s most notorious clubs. He’d drop all kinds of racial slurs when I was a kid, just like Walt. He even went so far as to never take us to Red Lobster by Southlake Mall a second time, denying me more servings of those awesome biscuits they have and endless heaps of all-you-can eat shrimp. Why? Because of the niggers acting like trash, he said.
Well, there did happen to be a large group there that evening acting like trash, and they did happen to be black.
The same man also stopped and helped a black woman change her tire when I was 10 or so, and gave her some cash for some reason too. He’d help anyone, anywhere, any way he could, provided they weren’t in the process of acting like assholes.
Just like Walt. Just like me. I think there were a lot of Walts in my father’s generation, and I think there’s a lot of guys like me in my generation. Carbon copies of our fathers who’ve cleaned it up a little bit, but still have some rough edges.
I’m sure there’s no shortage of people who would be happy to judge my father in all kinds of harsh ways if they heard his words in a vacuum, but he was a product of his time, and those people can eat a dick. In other words, he was a good man who sometimes used a poor choice of words. Just like I sometimes do.
I also feel like I’m a product of my time, where black people and minorities in general weren’t constantly portrayed as victims of people like me, but left to stand on their own achievements just like the rest of us. Even in Bumfucksville, Indiana where I lived with nothing but other whiteys, we had no problems detecting awesomeness no matter what the skin color was. If you weren’t rocking Air Jordans, you weren’t shit in my rural Indiana elementary school. That’s not right by any stretch, but you sure as hell can’t say that it’s racist.
In honor of my gook friends, I’d also like to mention Bruce Lee, Mr. Miyagi, Shigeru Miyamoto (and the rest of the wonderfully talented zips at Nintendo), Chong Li and the OKAY USA guy from Bloodsport, and… well I guess that’s all I can come up with. Geez. You slant-eyed bastards need to step up your game.
But yes, Gran Torino is classic film. A wonderfully flawed character with a Polack last name who knows the difference between talk and action. A lot of people today who claim to be anti-racists could probably take a cue or two from old Walt.
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The problem is that different societies have different ideas as to what natural rights are. So speaking of them as objective facts, that are open to interpretation and vary by culture, society, religion and time period, makes no sense.
And when someone says something that cannot be proven nor disproven is a fact, then that means anyone can say anything is a natural right. Also, is it just coincidence that any natural right someone claims exists just so happens to be a right they agree with?
It would make sense to me to assume they’re using those words within the confine of the culture/country/whatever they’re referring to
The scientist is probably as ill-equipped to discover them as he is is to discover that rape is evil.
If people made them up then they don’t exist. No more than the dragons in a man made fairy tale. The fairy tale may exist as a story. But not the elements within the story existing in reality.
You either have faith in their existence, or you don’t.
If I’m going to tell myself a story that I live by, I guess I’d rather it be one which I actually have some faith in. Faith seems to be an almost universal experience among humanity. Sort of a natural characteristic of the species. Natural…
Otherwise, good is simply WHATEVER can be enforced for that moment, no matter what your opinion is. So my dream theocracy is as good as someone else’s secular and progressive pure democracy…
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Before I get back to the topic, I am curious.
You used a Grizzly as your example. I assume that’s because you don’t believe a lower animal (than the human animal) has a moral obligation to a human. Its killing and devouring of a human, while frightening and gory, isn’t an evil act.
Do you feel the same way if it was a fellow human? Is a fellow human murdering the same individual no more than a grizzly doing the same?
Just curious.if you believe humans have any inherent moral obligations to each other.
Great post. @twojarslave
And I agree. Kidding around by talking like an asshole has to be earned, it’s not a right. Treat people like you want to be treated -sounds so simple…
Personally, I’d be insulted if someone tried to coddle me because of the color of my skin. By definition, if you are trying to skew the playing field in my favor, you think you are superior to me. Imo, it’s condescending as all hell.
I can make it on my own merits, thank you very much. I’ll make my own damn pole, and get my own fish. I want to be the mighty oak, don’t turn me into your bonsai. Etc.
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If you’ve never checked out Thomas Sowell, do so. He’s spoken extensively on this issue. He’s pretty smart for a black guy.
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Damn, I need to get out more…dude’s got some serious bonafides.
Will definitely have to check him out, thanks!
Well he’s either an anti-racist American treasure or an Uncle Tom race-traitor, depending on who you ask.
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Interesting.
A nearly 30 year old interview that is even more relevant today than it was when he initially gave it.
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Given how eagerly and often we go to war, I don’t see any inherent obligations.
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Superstition is also natural. I wouldn’t base my existence on that either. Although Dumas did say hope was one of two words humanity has to live by.
Every tribe has their rites of passage, rituals, and ways of looking out for their kin. It seems the majority or all here believe privilege is just a matter of passing on jobs and money to others.
The privilege for my own fifteen-month old son has already started. Is he employed, earning a living, driving an expensive car? No! But he has already experienced some things and will experience more that others have not and won’t, and might even have an easier time than others in some areas, including myself considering I had an utterly negligent father. For all practical purposes, one can reasonably say I didn’t have a dad for nearly all my life even though he passed on only two years ago. I didn’t have other privileges that could have helped me enormously! I also could have had far more privilege if I had decided to make the decisions that would have bestowed them unto me by my own people. But I didn’t.
When I was in high school, there was huge economic inequality amongst the people who went there. Queens is actually one of the most, if not the most diverse county in the entire country! So I’ve seen firsthand just what nepotism and privilege really is, especially privilege passed on within an ethnicity (most of whom are not white!). I went to school with seventeen year olds (!) who drove cars and wore clothes and jewelry most adults never will! I’ve read here that people should not really do much, but simply develop a spirit of understanding, as if this would have spared some poor kid’s self-esteem issues and further his understanding on this unfair world. What exactly should these white… and Asian… and Middle Eastern kids and parents done for me to let me know what my plight is. Should they have said something like, “Come here sonny/pal. I know you don’t have a daddy and your mom busts her ass all by herself. Don’t feel bad. Ya see that shitbox, used Ford Escort, ya drive. We know our son who drives a BMW/Mercedes/Audi and has girls he has to fight off has it better and has a weekly allowance of 300 bucks, while you practically waste your time waiting on tables, buttering bagels, and folding clothes at the Gap and are still figuring out how to even talk to a girl!”
Just exactly were such people to do for me in an effort to simply develop a spirit of understanding?
The most privileged man I know is a former close friend. And his family doesn’t simply throw around six figure jobs to one another. We’re talking about involvement in an industry that generates millions for those involved at the top. He is not white and anyone who looked at him for one second wouldn’t consider him white. And here’s the thing, no one in NYC outside of two ethnicities are getting into this industry, and it’s an industry that showcases ethnic nepotism at its finest. Most men are saddled with the materialistic burden this industry places. And its an industry founded on bloodshed elsewhere.
Just exactly what should we do about this privilege thrown around? Can someone give me something practical, besides force, something other than “understanding”, something which those involved care about, and actually have the financial means to back politicians and skirt a law or amend some that suit them (just like many very rich people can do)?
And again: this ain’t all about financial privilege or muh jobs, jobs, jobs!
And who is to say what is right or wrong when someone chooses to privilege whoever they please? What about those times favors were done for me, including two jobs pretty much given to me by my good friend who was a hiring manager, both of which were in two locations separated by five years? What about those favors that were accompanied by the whispered statement, “Hey, you know, we Jews gotta stick together”. By this privilege to me, it thereby wasn’t given to someone else, in the latter case, namely someone who wasn’t Jewish. Is someone else being harmed by this? In a very broad sense, maybe, especially if such nepotism were to be practiced on a large scale so that others who don’t have connections wind up shit out of luck. And this is exactly what is practiced amongst the dozens upon dozens of ethnic groups in this country. So what I see amongst some of the high-browed posters here, is a proposal in which millions of people drop such inclinations when they will never do so in an attempt to throw away human nature.
(I say this with absolutely no hostility to any members here, nor am I trying to convince anyone of anything or be some heckling, rude wiseass. I just want to put that out there.)
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This, I believe, is why the subject is sequestered mainly to the “smart” crowd that like to intellectualize subjects and virtue signal.
Once you bring the subject home, looking at your own flesh and blood, it doesn’t make any sense. What is someone going to do? Look at their own child and say “Well kiddo, instead of sending you off to school I started a scholarship for insert buzzword here’s. And those connections I have? Well we all decided it would be best to cut you off. You’re gonna have to go at adulthood alone. But hey! You can be proud to know that you’re really helping trendy causes! Darfur! Darfur! Oy!oy!oy! Now go get em Tiger! Dinner is at 6:00 and you aren’t invited.”.
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Great post! I’m going to try to respond later.