White Boy...

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
Ryu13 wrote:
escot4 wrote:
oztrav wrote:
i was watching drum roll last night, (with my girl friend she made me)
and it dawned on me why is it that african americans can call caucasions white boy, cracker and shizzle fizzle (ok i added that last one in the hell of it) and it is seen as soccially acceptable. Yet if it was turned around it is a massive no no. I dont mean to incite a ‘insert’ colour pride thread I was just curious as to that dynamic in your American culture. In Australia we get called white dogs for the most part. I was wondering on peoples opinions on why that is?

Maybe because there’s a history of violent oppression against African-Americans that was led by White people in the U.S.

But all of the white(europeans, not americans) who did that are long dead or old and rotting. How come blacks never target africans? Certain africans enslaved other africans, and still do. Never see blacks and africans fighting about it…

Blacks didn’t get the right to vote until 1965, and that was only because of massive upheaval in the South. Every black leader has been mysteriously “assassinated”. Slavery. Jim Crow laws. The Solid South. Segregation. A constant police bias. A third of black men being in prison…so on and so forth.

If all we white folks have to deal is being called, “cracker” after all the shit that has gone on, then I say we have no right to complain.

Spend some time in jail, where you’re the minority. See how much it sucks. Then multiply that times three hundred years and ten generations.[/quote]

Fighting Irish is my new best friend

Good shit, Fighting Irish. You may be Irish, but I think you got some Black in you. Welcome to the family.

1965 huh?

I see your point but I never did that personally so you want to call me a cracker, I dont give a fuck who you are and what your people have gone through, if I took if offensively, you will get your ass beat equally.

Oh and by the way, BA and MA in history, focus Race relations in American South. Married a black woman and have many black friends, just in case you wanted to call me some kinda name.

A

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
Ryu13 wrote:
escot4 wrote:
oztrav wrote:
i was watching drum roll last night, (with my girl friend she made me)
and it dawned on me why is it that african americans can call caucasions white boy, cracker and shizzle fizzle (ok i added that last one in the hell of it) and it is seen as soccially acceptable. Yet if it was turned around it is a massive no no. I dont mean to incite a ‘insert’ colour pride thread I was just curious as to that dynamic in your American culture. In Australia we get called white dogs for the most part. I was wondering on peoples opinions on why that is?

Maybe because there’s a history of violent oppression against African-Americans that was led by White people in the U.S.

But all of the white(europeans, not americans) who did that are long dead or old and rotting. How come blacks never target africans? Certain africans enslaved other africans, and still do. Never see blacks and africans fighting about it…

Blacks didn’t get the right to vote until 1965, and that was only because of massive upheaval in the South. Every black leader has been mysteriously “assassinated”. Slavery. Jim Crow laws. The Solid South. Segregation. A constant police bias. A third of black men being in prison…so on and so forth.

If all we white folks have to deal is being called, “cracker” after all the shit that has gone on, then I say we have no right to complain.

Spend some time in jail, where you’re the minority. See how much it sucks. Then multiply that times three hundred years and ten generations.[/quote]

[quote]Professor X wrote:
bullpup wrote:
his whole outlook on life was based on his travels and things he had done, not the color of skin.

What?[/quote]

Prof X,
The gentlemen I am referring to was a ex Army ranger and a highly decorated soldier involved in the siege in Somalia. He made it very well known that after that day he did not look at anyone based on the color of thier skin. He did not want to be associated with an African American because of the things he saw over there. He did not want to associate himself with the stigma of todays stereo typical black man. He didn’t care about what other people called him whether it be out of disregard or acception. He looked down at other black men calling him a nigga, just for the simple fact that is was degrading at one time and he believed other people should have grown out of this by now.

Him refering to me as his nigga was his idea of a joke. He was real particular of whom he associated with. he didn’t really hang around any of the other black men there, and there was a definate resentment between him and the others.

He was also from up North, and there is a different jive between black people from the North and ones from the South. He accused the majority of them as being racists.

Bullpup

Nick F - Some Italians did set foot on US soil before the 1900s.

Cristoforo Colombo

Amerigo Vespucci (does his first name sound familiar?)

Giovanni Cabotto

Giovanni da Verrazzano

…I know what you meant in your post btw. Italian immigration didn’t intensify until the late 1890s–>

[quote]bullpup wrote:
He made it very well known that after that day he did not look at anyone based on the color of thier skin. He did not want to be associated with an African American because of the things he saw over there.[/quote]

What you seem to be missing is that these two sentences contradict one another. Someone who truly didn’t judge people by skin color wouldn’t make the remarks he made or feel a need to seperate himself from the very race he is a part of. He sounds like a self hating black man from everything you’ve written. He obviously simply agrees with your point of view. I could care less about how decorated he is in this context.

[quote]He did not want to associate himself with the stigma of todays stereo typical black man. He didn’t care about what other people called him whether it be out of disregard or acception. He looked down at other black men calling him a nigga, just for the simple fact that is was degrading at one time and he believed other people should have grown out of this by now.

Him refering to me as his nigga was his idea of a joke.[/quote]

Then not only is he a hypocrite, he isn’t too bright. He looks down on blacks using that term to him…but turns around and uses it with you? What? And this made sense to you?

[quote]
He was real particular of whom he associated with. he didn’t really hang around any of the other black men there, and there was a definate resentment between him and the others. [/quote]

I can see why. He sounds like a total jackass. I guess you are the company you keep.

What? I have no animosity towards anyone “up north”. What freaking year was this? Your friend was a racist…against his own damn people. How this stood out as commendable to you is a mystery to me.

[quote]Amsterdam Animal wrote:
1965 huh?

I see your point but I never did that personally so you want to call me a cracker, I dont give a fuck who you are and what your people have gone through, if I took if offensively, you will get your ass beat equally.

Oh and by the way, BA and MA in history, focus Race relations in American South. Married a black woman and have many black friends, just in case you wanted to call me some kinda name.

A
[/quote]

I don’t give a flying fuck about all your accolades in the field, and everyone seems to have “lots of black friends” as soon as someone mentions race relations. Don’t pull that bullshit out.

That being said, I see your point. I’ve never been called a “cracker”, but I’ve been called a guinea…and I get pissed off. I don’t get pissed because they’re bad mouthing Italians (I couldn’t give a shit about every other Italian in the world), I get pissed because they’re attacking me. Calling me a guinea or a Mick in anger doesn’t piss me off any worse than someone calling me a “fucking cocksucker”.

In the greater semantics of language though, nigger is a worse word because whites have always been the oppressor, not the oppressed. It is used derogatorily, and its used by the majority. The word “cracker” is reactionary.

On a related note, I wanted to bring this up but had no forum to do so. I don’t really have any black “friends”. I’ve worked with a lot of blacks from Newark or Paterson, and I’ve dug all of them. However, I find it ironic that New Jersey is far more segregated than your own state of Maryland.

I went down there last year, and something struck me as odd when we were in one of the Cracker Barrels down there: blacks ate in the same restaurants as whites, and in equal numbers. You don’t see that in New Jersey. There is an invisible line in this state, sometimes even in towns. In places like Belleville or West Orange (places where the Sopranos are shot), there are Italian sections and then there are black sections; the two don’t cross over. In Paterson, there’s a black section, a Puerto Rican section, and an Arab section, with a few stray Irish and Italians left. They all hate each other. None of them come into my town, which is predominantly white. If they do, the cops run them out and arrest them.

A black woman I know told me once, “At least in the South, you know they hate you. You know why you’re getting that seat by the kitchen at the restaurant. Up here, you can’t tell, and they won’t talk about it.”

Think of it this way. I am from Holland which was occupied from 1939 -1945 by Nazi Germany. My grandparants had to hand dig tulip bulbs out of the frozen ground b/c they were starving. Many people were killed viciously including some family of mine I never knew obviously. I am not comparing this to the black/white history in the US but my point is that not all Germans in the 1940’s were Nazis as not all whites in US history were racists.

I will be the first one to admit that I hate fucking Nazis and the mere sight of a Swastika makes me blood boil. Does that give me the right to start calling young German guys today deragatory terms just b/c of what his forefathers did to mine? I dont think so.

I automatically am not a big fan of Germans b/c of our history, our soccer rivalry and the fact that my home town Den Helder gets overrun every fucking summer by Germans who dont have a beach of their own and act like they still occupy us. We have to speak German when they come to our country but we have to speak German when we come theirs? Fuck that. Do I therefore call some kid a Schweinhund b/c he acts like he is better than me when he comes to my country? You fucking right. Do I beat the shit out of him if he disagrees? You fucking right.

But do I expect that same kid to roll over and play dead when I call him that if he has done nothing to me other than being German, I dont think so.

A

[quote]Amsterdam Animal wrote:
1965 huh?

I see your point but I never did that personally so you want to call me a cracker, I dont give a fuck who you are and what your people have gone through, if I took if offensively, you will get your ass beat equally.

Oh and by the way, BA and MA in history, focus Race relations in American South. Married a black woman and have many black friends, just in case you wanted to call me some kinda name.

A

FightinIrish26 wrote:
Ryu13 wrote:
escot4 wrote:
oztrav wrote:
i was watching drum roll last night, (with my girl friend she made me)
and it dawned on me why is it that african americans can call caucasions white boy, cracker and shizzle fizzle (ok i added that last one in the hell of it) and it is seen as soccially acceptable. Yet if it was turned around it is a massive no no. I dont mean to incite a ‘insert’ colour pride thread I was just curious as to that dynamic in your American culture. In Australia we get called white dogs for the most part. I was wondering on peoples opinions on why that is?

Maybe because there’s a history of violent oppression against African-Americans that was led by White people in the U.S.

But all of the white(europeans, not americans) who did that are long dead or old and rotting. How come blacks never target africans? Certain africans enslaved other africans, and still do. Never see blacks and africans fighting about it…

Blacks didn’t get the right to vote until 1965, and that was only because of massive upheaval in the South. Every black leader has been mysteriously “assassinated”. Slavery. Jim Crow laws. The Solid South. Segregation. A constant police bias. A third of black men being in prison…so on and so forth.

If all we white folks have to deal is being called, “cracker” after all the shit that has gone on, then I say we have no right to complain.

Spend some time in jail, where you’re the minority. See how much it sucks. Then multiply that times three hundred years and ten generations.

[/quote]

[quote]Amsterdam Animal wrote:
Think of it this way. I am from Holland which was occupied from 1939 -1945 by Nazi Germany. My grandparants had to hand dig tulip bulbs out of the frozen ground b/c they were starving. Many people were killed viciously including some family of mine I never knew obviously. I am not comparing this to the black/white history in the US but my point is that not all Germans in the 1940’s were Nazis as not all whites in US history were racists.
[/quote]

OK. But the majority of Germans were Nazis, or at least thought that they would help the country. As I recall there were no uprisings in the streets of Hamburg or Berlin about how the Nazis were killing all the innocent Jews.

America has long been the same way. Not everyone walked around with a noose saying, “I’m gonna hang me a nigger”. However, when Medgar Evers got shot, there were no riots by the whites. When Nat Turner rebelled, whites did not join him. The 54th Massachusetts was not the pride and joy of the Union- in fact, they had to make a movie about it to make anyone know about besides us hardcore Civil War guys.

It’s not outright racism- it’s complacency in the face of racism, and letting things like that go. Apathy towards it is as bad as doing the act.

That was a specific time in history, not a continuing theme in the history of your nation. If it is, and I’m not aware of it…well yea, I’d be pissed too. Maybe pissed off enough to hear German being spoken at a bar and make a couple remarks about it…and this is how the shit starts.

Valid points. And you’ve got some anger as far as race relations too. This is what I’m saying. If you’ve got a head on your shoulders, you avoid the conflict. A lot of folks don’t.

If you throw in some extreme poverty in the ghettos, mix in some crooked cops, and toss in a corrupt government in a major city…BANG.

It’s a time bomb.

there is a double standard in these country, the only safe scapegoat is a white christian heterosexual male.

i am not “white” nor am i a “white apologist” as Carlos Mencina would say.

so i don’t give a fuck about what “your people” have been through, you insult me to my face and we are going to tangle. period.

IMO white people have let themselves feel guilty to the point that they are now intimidated into standing up for themselves.

i feel the same way about a white person who lets some black guy call him “white-boy” as i do about a black person who lets a white person call him “the N word”. they both are pussies and full of self hatred.

black people started to stand up for themselves and quit taking the racial crap long time ago, to the point if a white person said that word in mixed company, there is going to be an ugly fight. until white folks do the same get used to being called “hillbilly” cracker, white-boy, whatever.

Good post.

Its not bullshit.

You may not give a flying fuck but at least those accolades helped me to know that your statement that blacks did not get the right to vote till 1965 was incorrect :slight_smile:

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
Amsterdam Animal wrote:
1965 huh?

I see your point but I never did that personally so you want to call me a cracker, I dont give a fuck who you are and what your people have gone through, if I took if offensively, you will get your ass beat equally.

Oh and by the way, BA and MA in history, focus Race relations in American South. Married a black woman and have many black friends, just in case you wanted to call me some kinda name.

A

I don’t give a flying fuck about all your accolades in the field, and everyone seems to have “lots of black friends” as soon as someone mentions race relations. Don’t pull that bullshit out.

That being said, I see your point. I’ve never been called a “cracker”, but I’ve been called a guinea…and I get pissed off. I don’t get pissed because they’re bad mouthing Italians (I couldn’t give a shit about every other Italian in the world), I get pissed because they’re attacking me. Calling me a guinea or a Mick in anger doesn’t piss me off any worse than someone calling me a “fucking cocksucker”.

In the greater semantics of language though, nigger is a worse word because whites have always been the oppressor, not the oppressed. It is used derogatorily, and its used by the majority. The word “cracker” is reactionary.

On a related note, I wanted to bring this up but had no forum to do so. I don’t really have any black “friends”. I’ve worked with a lot of blacks from Newark or Paterson, and I’ve dug all of them. However, I find it ironic that New Jersey is far more segregated than your own state of Maryland.

I went down there last year, and something struck me as odd when we were in one of the Cracker Barrels down there: blacks ate in the same restaurants as whites, and in equal numbers. You don’t see that in New Jersey. There is an invisible line in this state, sometimes even in towns. In places like Belleville or West Orange (places where the Sopranos are shot), there are Italian sections and then there are black sections; the two don’t cross over. In Paterson, there’s a black section, a Puerto Rican section, and an Arab section, with a few stray Irish and Italians left. They all hate each other. None of them come into my town, which is predominantly white. If they do, the cops run them out and arrest them.

A black woman I know told me once, “At least in the South, you know they hate you. You know why you’re getting that seat by the kitchen at the restaurant. Up here, you can’t tell, and they won’t talk about it.”

[/quote]

[quote]WolBarret wrote:
Good shit, Fighting Irish. You may be Irish, but I think you got some Black in you. Welcome to the family.[/quote]

Maybe he’s Black Irish. :wink:

[quote]Bullmoose wrote:
If by Drum Roll, you mean Drumline, it was cool (or there were no consequences, anyway) in that context because the white guy was in the minority. The black majority wasn’t offended because they don’t care, and the white guy in that case can’t really do anything about it because he’s all alone. That doesn’t mean it’s socially acceptable in general, just that nobody did anything about it in that case. I find that whenever black people say that in movies, it’s either because they’re in a predominantly black setting, or they’re calling out a white guy who “acts black”. If drumroll is some other movie I’ve never heard of, then I’m talking out of my ass, so never mind.

[/quote]

Agreed. I’ve never once seen a black guy call a white guy cracka or white boy when the white guy was in his element. It’s always in a situation where the white guy is in the minority.

Maybe so but given the situation at the time, it is my opion that a good number of Germans outside Hitlers ranks talked the talk rather than walked the walk. If you openly defied Hitler during that time, you would get killed just as quickly regardless of whether you were Aryan or Jew. Does that make it right? Of course not.

I agree with your post. You make valid points.

And I am well aware that I harbor animosity towards German people but at least I am realistic enough to admit it and know it is not right. I was even engaged briefly to a half German half African American girl, go figure.

I was fortunate to grow up in a society with many different races including blacks, where equal treatment was emphasized. And yes people, there are black people in Holland. I think my perspective as a European born white male may be different from a American born white male. This is one of the reasons I persued the academic path in such a manner.

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
Amsterdam Animal wrote:

OK. But the majority of Germans were Nazis, or at least thought that they would help the country. As I recall there were no uprisings in the streets of Hamburg or Berlin about how the Nazis were killing all the innocent Jews.

America has long been the same way. Not everyone walked around with a noose saying, “I’m gonna hang me a nigger”. However, when Medgar Evers got shot, there were no riots by the whites. When Nat Turner rebelled, whites did not join him. The 54th Massachusetts was not the pride and joy of the Union- in fact, they had to make a movie about it to make anyone know about besides us hardcore Civil War guys.

It’s not outright racism- it’s complacency in the face of racism, and letting things like that go. Apathy towards it is as bad as doing the act.

I will be the first one to admit that I hate fucking Nazis and the mere sight of a Swastika makes me blood boil. Does that give me the right to start calling young German guys today deragatory terms just b/c of what his forefathers did to mine? I dont think so.

That was a specific time in history, not a continuing theme in the history of your nation. If it is, and I’m not aware of it…well yea, I’d be pissed too. Maybe pissed off enough to hear German being spoken at a bar and make a couple remarks about it…and this is how the shit starts.

I automatically am not a big fan of Germans b/c of our history, our soccer rivalry and the fact that my home town Den Helder gets overrun every fucking summer by Germans who dont have a beach of their own and act like they still occupy us. We have to speak German when they come to our country but we have to speak German when we come theirs? Fuck that. Do I therefore call some kid a Schweinhund b/c he acts like he is better than me when he comes to my country? You fucking right. Do I beat the shit out of him if he disagrees? You fucking right.

But do I expect that same kid to roll over and play dead when I call him that if he has done nothing to me other than being German, I dont think so.

A

Valid points. And you’ve got some anger as far as race relations too. This is what I’m saying. If you’ve got a head on your shoulders, you avoid the conflict. A lot of folks don’t.

If you throw in some extreme poverty in the ghettos, mix in some crooked cops, and toss in a corrupt government in a major city…BANG.

It’s a time bomb.[/quote]

[quote]Meddyg Stigg wrote:
sikunt wrote:
oztrav wrote:
i was watching drum roll last night, (with my girl friend she made me)
and it dawned on me why is it that african americans can call caucasions white boy, cracker and shizzle fizzle (ok i added that last one in the hell of it) and it is seen as soccially acceptable. Yet if it was turned around it is a massive no no. I dont mean to incite a ‘insert’ colour pride thread I was just curious as to that dynamic in your American culture. In Australia we get called white dogs for the most part. I was wondering on peoples opinions on why that is?

I am from Australia and have had racism directed at me when i was in England. I was called a slave and a convict, and told to go back to Australia on the slave ship i came in on. A few other Aussies i know have experienced the same. There are racist names for people of every race i guess.

That’s not racism. Racism is not making comments about people from other countries just other races. Unless the English guys were Black or vice versa.[/quote]

That is not quite accurate Bro. The N word is slang for a place in Africa (Nigra) and also used to denote race. So a racist comment can be related to where someone comes from and used as synonymous with a particular race.

[quote]Amsterdam Animal wrote:
Good post.

Its not bullshit.

You may not give a flying fuck but at least those accolades helped me to know that your statement that blacks did not get the right to vote till 1965 was incorrect :slight_smile:

[/quote]

It was in reference to the Voting Rights Act of 1965. That’s when blacks really got the “right” in real time, not just on paper.

[quote]Kuz wrote:
WolBarret wrote:
Good shit, Fighting Irish. You may be Irish, but I think you got some Black in you. Welcome to the family.

Maybe he’s Black Irish. :wink:
Black people in Ireland - Wikipedia [/quote]

Believe it or not…it’s in there somewhere…or so I’m told by my family.

[quote]Amsterdam Animal wrote:
1965 huh?

I see your point but I never did that personally so you want to call me a cracker, I dont give a fuck who you are and what your people have gone through, if I took if offensively, you will get your ass beat equally.

Oh and by the way, BA and MA in history, focus Race relations in American South. Married a black woman and have many black friends, just in case you wanted to call me some kinda name.

A

FightinIrish26 wrote:
Ryu13 wrote:
escot4 wrote:
oztrav wrote:
i was watching drum roll last night, (with my girl friend she made me)
and it dawned on me why is it that african americans can call caucasions white boy, cracker and shizzle fizzle (ok i added that last one in the hell of it) and it is seen as soccially acceptable. Yet if it was turned around it is a massive no no. I dont mean to incite a ‘insert’ colour pride thread I was just curious as to that dynamic in your American culture. In Australia we get called white dogs for the most part. I was wondering on peoples opinions on why that is?

Maybe because there’s a history of violent oppression against African-Americans that was led by White people in the U.S.

But all of the white(europeans, not americans) who did that are long dead or old and rotting. How come blacks never target africans? Certain africans enslaved other africans, and still do. Never see blacks and africans fighting about it…

Blacks didn’t get the right to vote until 1965, and that was only because of massive upheaval in the South. Every black leader has been mysteriously “assassinated”. Slavery. Jim Crow laws. The Solid South. Segregation. A constant police bias. A third of black men being in prison…so on and so forth.

If all we white folks have to deal is being called, “cracker” after all the shit that has gone on, then I say we have no right to complain.

Spend some time in jail, where you’re the minority. See how much it sucks. Then multiply that times three hundred years and ten generations.

[/quote]

lol nicely put

[quote]heavythrower wrote:
there is a double standard in these country, the only safe scapegoat is a white christian heterosexual male.

i am not “white” nor am i a “white apologist” as Carlos Mencina would say.

so i don’t give a fuck about what “your people” have been through, you insult me to my face and we are going to tangle. period.

IMO white people have let themselves feel guilty to the point that they are now intimidated into standing up for themselves.

i feel the same way about a white person who lets some black guy call him “white-boy” as i do about a black person who lets a white person call him “the N word”. they both are pussies and full of self hatred.

black people started to stand up for themselves and quit taking the racial crap long time ago, to the point if a white person said that word in mixed company, there is going to be an ugly fight. until white folks do the same get used to being called “hillbilly” cracker, white-boy, whatever. [/quote]

Funny thing about what the Irishman is writing is that nobody reads it. They just see that he’s not “standing up for his right not to be a cracker” or something, then say, “Fuck you and what your people have been through, I never did nothin’ and I won’t fel guilty.”

He hasn’t accused anybody here of doing anything, and I don’t think he’s saying anybody should feel guilty. He’s trying to help everyone to understand where this comes from.

The things that “their people” (our people, I guess) went through were harsh, but right now black people are going through things that you don’t realize. It’s not the same as just hearing stories about what happened to your family back in the day, it’s hearing those stories and seeing that it’s still affecting you, and not knowing what to do about it.

Obviously, the way black culture is going now isn’t the right thing to do about it. Calling white people “cracker” doesn’t help, but if you didn’t know how to get out, and you were seeing this everyday, you’d be pretty pissed, too.
The solution, as I see it, is to “beat the man at his own game”, meaning get your ass to school, get a good job, and work your way up, so that eventually, the power is more evenly distributed (I’m not saying try to take over, either, just get involved). That’s easy to say, for me, but tough to do for someone who has grown up in the ghetto.

Problem is, people tend to learn their habits from their parents. Most freed slaves were uneducated, angry, and didn’t know how to organize themselves to move up. Nobody helped them, or taught them, so their kids became that way, too, and so on until you get to what we have now. Angry black kids who don’t know how to get themselves out of their situation, but have a general idea of who put them in that situation in the first place. No, you never owned a slave, and no, you probably aren’t part of a conspiracy to keep them down, but they’re angry, and they don’t know the way out.

Middle-class black people, and those lucky enough to find a role model or mentor and pull themselves up, don’t generally go around calling people cracker or white boy. But they tend to be ignored when the subject of race relations comes up. All black people are gang bangers, single mothers, and drug dealers, right? And all racist towards white people.

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
Kuz wrote:
WolBarret wrote:
Good shit, Fighting Irish. You may be Irish, but I think you got some Black in you. Welcome to the family.

Maybe he’s Black Irish. :wink:

Believe it or not…it’s in there somewhere…or so I’m told by my family.[/quote]

Judging by your photo, I would totally believe it. I have a friend of mine with the same kind of features in his family and they are fairly sure there is a little Spanish Armada holdover in their family tree.