You are 4 month into training and you already did windstrol and you want to start new gear ? are you retarded bro ? train naturally and get stronger FIRST and maybe in 10 years think about one cycle not before ! when you will hit 600+ Deadlift, 500+ squat and 300+ bench think about it but not now…
1 Like
ment is 7a methyl 19 nortestosterone. I was thinking about using it myself (before my current new health issues appeared), but then saw the anabolic to androgenic ratio (2300/650) and was like “shit, that’s waaaaaaaaaaaayyyyyyy to strong for me to be using”. Can’t use anything until I get a clean bill of health or I’m adequately medicated for my new health problems (might have to take beta blockers or something)
So trestolone is a very, very, very, very strong anabolic steroid and derivitave of nandrolone, it differs from nandrolone by having the addition of a methyl group in the c7 position (not c17aa, c7a) thus a degree of hepatotoxicity is likely present, but not to the extent of C17AA androgens. In various bodybuilding circles it’s been described as a “wet trenbolone”, which actually seems (to me) like a fairly accurate statement. Trestolone was (and I think still is) being studied for use as a male hormonal contraceptive, however various studies have found that when used it isn’t entirely reliable at inducing azoospermia in all subjects
(Implants releasing 400mcg/day, group 1 given 2 implants and group 2 given 4 implants, equating to roughly 1.2mgs of trest/day) which isn’t bad at all considering 1.2mgs is the anabolic equiv of 27.6mgs of testosterone on paper.
This study found trestolone was able to maintain sexual function and libido in men on TRT
However the TRT dose was 200mg e3w (outdated and relatively ineffective protocal), ment concentrations were 1.4nmol, so anabolic equiv of 32.2nmol of test (not bad either).
Being able to maintain libido manifests within the compounds effect on neurotransmitters (dopamine, serotonin etc), if these are depleted or low, sex drive will tank. Adequate andrgenicity stimulation is also a requirement for maintenance of libido, which this compound has (given it’s ridiculous androgenic rating of 650).
Trestolone’s estrogenic metabolite is 7a-methylestriadol, 7a-methylestriadol, I don’t know the exact pharmokinetics of 7a-ME, however if it’s similar to methylestriadol it would be more potent than regular estradiol with regards to promoting estrogenic side effects such as water retention, gynocomastia and high blood pressure (this also scales accurately with anecdotal reports from people using the compound), so despite it likely not aromatising to the same extent testosterone does, it’s estrogenic metabolite is likely far stronger than estradiol. Thus the compound does provide estrogen replacement (albeit a synthetic form of estrogen).
Given the exceptionally strong nature of the drug, use would have to be done very carefully, seriously I was thinking (at the time) of adding 12.5mgs/wk to my TRT, that’s how strong I think the drug is… Granted I’m a stickler for low doses. I see/hear of people using 300-350mg/wk, given the extreme potency of this compound, such use is bound to end up causing issues, it’s anabolic potential is off the charts, given it’s high binding affinity to the AR and it’s high anabolic potential, the liklihood of this drug at high doses is far more likely (in my opinion) to cause cardiac manifestations than many other AAS (I mean, probably not at 12mgs/wk, but when we go into the 100-200mg/wk range, 100mg is 2300mg of testosterone weekly on paper…
19-nortestosterone has been shown in various animal models to deplete dopamine and serotonin, I’ve linked this study before but I think it’s so goooooood
(nandrolone alters gene transcription in dopamine receptors)
Nandrolone reduces dopamine receptor density
Nandrolone downregulates serotonin receptor mRNA levels in the amygdala and prefrontal cortex (both areas of the brain containing AR, however nandrolone doesn’t bind particularly strongly to the AR, suggesting 19-nortestosterone has an impact on neurotransmitters that is independent of AR binding). Whether 19-nortestosterone derivitaves have this effect is unknown, but given the structural similarities to it’s parent compound and anecdotal reports from those on trenbolone it would be a fair chance to assume trestolone would have negative effects on neurotransmitters. Now, given AAS use is individual, some feel like superman on nandrolone and tren while others may occasionally becoe so depressed they want to to commit suicide, given the lack of data on the compound we can only GUESS how the drug would act by looking at the pharmokinetics and anecdotal experiences/testimonies. Hell, maybe I will try this stuff one day, at like 5-10mg/wk on top of TRT, it’s definately an interesting compound with a very high potency.
I’d assume it’d work over you’re cholesterol somewhat, however compared to tren the effect shouldn’t be quite as bad (but still considerably worse than testosterone or nandrolone).
We need more data, however if it maintains sex drive, libido and muscle mass in the absence of causing mental sides, extreme chances in the lipid profile (we are talking about very low doses here, like 700mcg/day) and doesn’t significantly affect the prostate (which it shouldn’t DHT to some extent has a role in promoting prostate enlargement, however trestolone has no affinity for the 5a reductase enzyme, thus no dihydro metabolite, thus despite a high level of androgenicity it in theory (and in rat models) has less affinity for prostate stimulation) it could be a great TRT drug
However at higher doses trestolone would cause significantly more prostate issues in men who are predisposed/ already have existing androgen mediated prostate issues
Whoops, I forgot, trestolone, being a 19-nor will have affinity for the PR and thus progesterone related sides are possible.
3 Likes
Man, that was so much more than I could have asked for. Thank you. Truly. I’m going to have to spend some time diving into each of those studies one at a time. But you’re a absolute treasure to this community.
If this kid doesnt become a Dr, Endo, something along those lines, it would be a tragedy.
2 Likes
I just need to make sure I don’t die before then lol, health issues are piling up, I can’t help but think something serious is going to just plop down on me in the near future. currently dealing with heart rhythm abnormalities, likely just autonomic nervous system dysfunction but ya never know
It’s not going to. That is your anxiety working up. Keep it in check. If you think health issues are piling up now, wait till you get older.
1 Like
I can imagine it, my joints will be ground to dust lol. As to my anxiety, yea it’s been awful recently, having panick attacks suck (considering they’re a relatively new occurance… as in I hadn’t had them for a very very long time, and they’re happening frequently)
1 Like
Blood work lately to help determine why? I find my anxiety comes from my gut. Heart burn, acid reflux, heart palpitations, sweating. Doc says I may have Gerd but I havent had further testing. Losing weight and getting my hormones on track has helped
1 Like
Yea I had some blood work recently, everything checked out except for my MCHC and MCV which both were low, HCT and RBC were normal. Potentially developing mycrocitic anaemia (iron and/or vit b12 deficiency)… that or a genetic disorder
@Singhbuilder you are correct. Masteron can be run solo. As can certain other orals. Testosterone doesnt need to be included in all cycles although I basically run test only cycles these days
1 Like
Really? What would happen to E2 if masteron was run solo? Would sense of well-being be maintained (seriously I’m super curious). As to orals being run solo, are we talking about like dbol and methyltestosterone, mestanolone or fluoxymesteorone or like oxandrolone or stanozolol (the latter two I can’t imagine would be great to run solo… Right?) So if masteron can be run solo, what about EQ, or nand. Is estrogen replacement not a nessecity? (Because I guess androgens themselves do increase bone density in the absence of estrogen, as stanozolol and oxandrolone are meds used occasionally for osteoporosis)
Also with oral only cycle, aren’t they generally a bad idea (without a test base) because with orals like dbol one tends to put on a lot of water (and potentially a lot of muscle mass), that cannot be kept in the short period of time on, thus when the user goes off they lose a good portion of gains, and using orals only for a cycle (in my opinion) for a full 10 week cycle in place of injectables would create a far greater risk of hepatotoxicity and lipid strain (although I guess one could do a 4-6 week cycle… I mean with anadrol that actually might work, one would still put on a lot of weight and potentially keep some of it), however it seems riskier to me to only run orals.
Please do correct any wrong information I may have put up.
I got my Masters degree in Endocrinology, what degree do you have?
SB
Thank you for your reply.
Yes most steroids other than Test have not been researched enough so we may not know their downstream effects. However, I was referring to how one feels when using certain compounds.
I am not referring to replacing Testosterone during TRT (although some have, successfully). I am referring to replacing testosterone with other compounds during your conventional steroid cycle.
There are plenty of people who have replaced Test with EQ, I do know EQ effects the GABA receptors in the brain, hence the anxiety experienced in some users. If however this is not a issue for you, then that replacement could work.
Dbol can also be a replacement, in my experience low-dose Dbol (~20mg/day) would not cause hepatotoxicity. You would also get the euphoric effects from Dbol as it also increases Dopamine.
I would never suggest replacing test with a 19-nor, personally I would never suggest anyone to ever use Nandrolone, but thats just personal experience.
SB
1 Like
Like most, you can tolerate Test well. I have had some epic test-only cycles feeling great, but it is ever changing. Doses I was OK on previously I now aromatise massively and compounds I couldnt handle before I can now handle in large amounts.
I guess this game is a never-ending learning curve. I have been injecting the same dose of Test Prop for a 2 years on self-prescribed TRT, doing ED shots and suddenly I just hit a wall and I am aromatising the same dose. I may take a break from Test and come back to it, using EQ or Dbol/Primo in between as a “bridge”.
SB
20mgs of dbol/day is low? I thought that was the typical first time dose. I’d totally use dbol for TRT lol provided I get a clean bill of health (for like four weeks only lol), sounds like an awesome drug in general. As to replacing test with eq, what would be the purpose of this, is it due to the less androgenic nature of EQ not promoting as much irritating body hair growth, or those really sensitive to estro sides may prefer bold. I wouldn’t touch it with a nine thousand foot pole, I’m already anxiety ridden.
For me, 20mg would be low but I would always suggest using the lowest dose possible to feel good (keeping liver values in mind of course).
I suggested EQ because of its aromatisation rate, which is supposedly half that of Test. I have used it at a dose of 400mg and I did not experience any anxiety but the hunger was driving me mad, perfect for a bulk.
Another reason I would replace test would be because of the mental effects, I have recently been on a roller coaster due to fluctuating E levels, so anything that would be more stable definitely would help.
I have recently thought about changing my Test Prop to Test E but my aim was to try mimic the natural pulsatile secretion of Test which couldn’t be done with Test E (even though Test P is still not ideal), so I am not totally giving up on Test, I hope this keeps the Bro’s happy.
SB
are you an endocrinologist? If so I’ll call YOU Dr Mister Sir and I’ll change @physioLojik’s name to the Lojik-ness-monster (super funny pun/ play on words, because he’s such a large specimen in terms of muscle mass and height)
1 Like
No I am not, I have never claimed to be.
SB
you said you have a masters degree in endocrinology? So do you have the degree but you don’t practice, I’m confused. It appeasr physiolojiks original name or Dr Mr SIr stays (unless he doesn’t appreciate the joke in which I will call him by his original username which is physiolojik), it’s doctor and just a bunch of formal prefixes, I have a strange sense of humour
1 Like
Endocrinologist branch in UK is a specialised field after attaining a General Practitioner degree (MD for you americans).
I did not go to medical school after my Masters Degree.
SB
1 Like