Which Laws Should be Abolished?

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
261

[quote]ZEB wrote:
Professor,

With all due respect, you really have to pay better attention to my posts, if you are going to debate with me.

Several posts back I stated (at least twice) that we (my family) do not watch a lot of TV. I’m sure that you can understand this.

I am speaking more to the widespread problem of parents attempts to view prime time TV (and other media) with their children, in general. I have given you studies and polls that show that the majority of parents agree with me. We (parents) think there needs to be some sort of reform. You apparently disagree. That is the nucleus for a good debate!

Now, please address the issue at hand. Let me see your facts! Please don’t post anymore selfish opinion. I understand that you don’t want to change one single thing relative to your viewing habits. I gave you my opinion early on. I then attempted to build an argument around that opinion. You however have not gotten past giving me your opinion.

Simply typing: “It’s my right! Why should I ever give up anything” is not a cohesive argument.

Here are some ideas for you:

  1. Show, or prove that television programming during prime time is better than it was pre 1980 (before the advent of cable).

  2. Give examples of why the current prime time shows are good for the the family.

  3. Explain in detail why pushing the mature viewing programs back one hour is a bad idea, and will harm families, or whoever.

I am not in any way attempting sarcasm. I consider the debate (here on T-Nation) to be fun. I would like to continue, however simply posting your opinion, in place of a strong retort each time does nothing to strengthen the debate, and in fact weakens your own argument.

Thank you,

Zeb

[/quote]

Quit playing. Malonetd just posted every program on tv during those time slots. Please, for the sake of all that is sane, point out the specific problem that is causing the fit you are having.

262

[quote]Professor X wrote:
ZEB wrote:
Professor,

With all due respect, you really have to pay better attention to my posts, if you are going to debate with me.

Several posts back I stated (at least twice) that we (my family) do not watch a lot of TV. I’m sure that you can understand this.

I am speaking more to the widespread problem of parents attempts to view prime time TV (and other media) with their children, in general. I have given you studies and polls that show that the majority of parents agree with me. We (parents) think there needs to be some sort of reform. You apparently disagree. That is the nucleus for a good debate!

Now, please address the issue at hand. Let me see your facts! Please don’t post anymore selfish opinion. I understand that you don’t want to change one single thing relative to your viewing habits. I gave you my opinion early on. I then attempted to build an argument around that opinion. You however have not gotten past giving me your opinion.

Simply typing: “It’s my right! Why should I ever give up anything” is not a cohesive argument.

Here are some ideas for you:

  1. Show, or prove that television programming during prime time is better than it was pre 1980 (before the advent of cable).

  2. Give examples of why the current prime time shows are good for the the family.

  3. Explain in detail why pushing the mature viewing programs back one hour is a bad idea, and will harm families, or whoever.

I am not in any way attempting sarcasm. I consider the debate (here on T-Nation) to be fun. I would like to continue, however simply posting your opinion, in place of a strong retort each time does nothing to strengthen the debate, and in fact weakens your own argument.

Thank you,

Zeb

Quit playing. Malonetd just posted every program on tv during those time slots. Please, for the sake of all that is sane, point out the specific problem that is causing the fit you are having.[/quote]

Professor, don’t let your temper get the best of you.

I like maloneted and consider him a valuable member here at T-Nation. However, laying out a list of the weekly television schedule and saying “I don’t see anything wrong with this” is hardly a good argument now is it? The funny part is that you are actually relying on this as your research LOL!

He simply placed a TV schedule before us (I thanked him for that). He did not counter any of the arguments that I placed before you. If he were to do that he would have to put forth a history of each program and their weekly, or ongoing theme for any given time period, thus proving his point. He did not do that, and I would not expect him or you to do that. I think that’s a bit unrealistic at this level. Don’t you agree?

That’s why I referenced various polls and data gathered by larger, more capable organizations, who actually have the time and desire to do the research. Do you have similar data proving that most of the above mentioned TV shows are in fact not adult themed and are child friendly? No? See, if you had something, almost anything at this point, to back up your argument then…well then you we could have a debate. As it stands now I am still waiting for a cohesive argument which we can call your rebuttal!

263

[quote]ZEB wrote:
I like maloneted and consider him a valuable member here at T-Nation. However, laying out a list of the weekly television schedule and saying “I don’t see anything wrong with this” is hardly a good argument now is it? [/quote]

Actually, it is the greatest argument. You are avoiding it because you know that this list isn’t filled with the soft core porn that were claiming it was. Please, prove the list wrong and show us what the problem is.

264

[quote]ZEB wrote:
Here are some ideas for you:

  1. Show, or prove that television programming during prime time is better than it was pre 1980 (before the advent of cable).

  2. Give examples of why the current prime time shows are good for the the family.

  3. Explain in detail why pushing the mature viewing programs back one hour is a bad idea, and will harm families, or whoever.
    [/quote]

I know this wasn’t directed towards me, but if you don’t mind…

Numbers 1 and 2 go hand in hand I think. Before cable there were less channels. Less channels meant less time slots to be filled.

Here’s a list of all regular prime time shows aired on the big 3; ABC, CBS, and NBC; from 1978-1982:

ABC: Welcome Back Kotter, Operation Petticoat, Monday Night Football, Happy Days, Laverne & Shirley, Three?s Company, Taxi, Starsky & Hutch, Eight is Enough, Charlie?s Angels, Vega$, Mork & Mindy, What?s Happening, Barney Miller, Soap, Donny and Marie, Carter Country, Apple Pie, Love Boat, Fantasy Island, Hardy Boy Mysteries, Battlestar Gallactica, Out of the Blue, New Kind of Family, The Associates, 240-Robert, Angie, Lazarus Syndrome, Benson, 20/20, The Ropers, Detective School, Love Boat, Hart to Hart, That?s Incredible, Too Close For Comfort, Bosom Buddies, It?s a Living, I?m a Big Girl Now, Breaking Away, Today?s FBI, The Greatest American Hero, The Fall Guy, Dynasty, Best of the West, Darkroom, Strike Force, Maggie

CBS: 60 Minutes, Mary, Alice, All in the Family, Kaz, WKRP in Cincinnati, People, MASH, One Day at a Time, Lou Grant, Paper Chase, The Jeffersons, In the Beginning, The Waltons, Hawaii Five-O, Barnaby Jones, New Adventures of Wonder Woman, Incredible Hulk, Flying High, Rhoda, Good Times, American Girls, Dallas, White Shadow, California Fever, Last Resort, Struck by Lightning, Dukes of Hazard, Working Stiffs, Bad News Bears, Big Shamus, Little Shamus, Paris, Archie Bunker?s Place, Trapper John MD, Flo, Ladie?s Man, House Calls, Enos, Magnum PI, Knot?s Landing, Tim Conway Show, Freebie and the Bean, Secrets of Midland Heights, Private Benjamin, The Two of Us, Simon & Simon, Mr. Merlin, Nurse, Shannon, Jessica Novak, Falcon Crest, Wonderful World of Disney

NBC: Wonderful World of Disney, Lifeline, Little House on the Prairie, Grandpa Goes to Washington, Dick Clark?s Live Wednesday, Project UFO, Quincy M.E., W.E.B., Waverly Wonders, Who?s Watching the Kids, Rockford Files, Eddie Capra Mysteries, CHiPs, Sword of Justice, Misadventures of Sheriff Lobo, Real People, Diff?rent Strokes, Hello Larry, Best of Saturday Night Live, Buck Rogers in the 25th Century, Kate Loves a Mystery, Shirley, Eischied, BJ and the Bear, A Man Called Sloane, The Big Event, Flamingo Road, The Facts of Life, Harper Valley PTA, Sanford, Nero Wolfe, NBC Magazine, Barbara Mandrell & The Mandrell Sisters, Walking Tall, Hill Street Blues, Father Murphy, Bret Maverick, Love Sidney, Lewis & Clark, Gimme a Break!, McClain?s Law, Cassie & Co., Nashville Palace, Television: Inside and Out

Now, I’ll be honest, I don’t even know over half of these shows. But I do know the popular ones, and they don’t seem much different than the biggest sitcoms of today.

Now I’m comparing sitcoms to sitcoms, right now; nothing else. And I’m comparing present day sitcoms to sitcoms 20-25 years ago; not present day to 1950’s sitcoms.

The biggest difference I see is the way a family is portrayed on TV; and that just reflects society as a whole. There are much more single parent families, interracial relationships, teen parents, and broken(for lack of a better word) families portrayed on television today; just as there are more in real life today.

I don’t see this as offensive or inappropriate for children to see in sitcoms. I guess to some people it does reflect weaker values and a lower emphasis on what a family is supposed to be. But again, that’s the way society is now as well.

You could probably turn this into a “chicken or the egg argument”. Does television portray what society has become? Or has society come to represent what is portrayed on TV? I personally see it as TV reflecting what has been happening for years.

Anyway, that’s not my argument here. So I think most sitcoms are pretty much the same. Maybe they can say “ass” or “damn” more than they used to, but so what; no big deal.

Night time soap operas seen to be more plentiful and more popular in the sample 78-82 listing. We have a couple, but I doubt The O.C. will ever be as popular as Dallas or Dynasty. So I see that as pretty much a push as well.

One thing missing from the lineup 20 years ago is reality TV. Now we have all types of “reality-based” shows. But, again, I don’t see any as really offensive and I don’t think kids would want to sit through most of them anyway.

The biggest difference I see in programming from today compared to programming of yesteryear is in drama series. Today we have sophisticated, and sometimes graphic, shows such as CSI, 24, and the late NYPD Blue. These are a far cry from Hill Street Blues. Other dramas have evolved as well. Compare St. Elsewhere to ER or House. Most dramas today are definitely not family material. So I can see the loss of family viewing here. Although I don’t really consider any of the earlier dramas family viewing either, there were just cleaner.

One other glaring difference regarding family viewing in the two lineups is The Wonderful World of Disney. This is definitely family viewing and appropriate for all ages. None of the the “big 5” networks of today have anything similar during prime time. However, there is now “The Disney Channel”. And “ABC Family Channel” and “Nickelodeon”. In fact, with digital cable or satellite, you can several of each of these channels.

And that brings me to my points.

The free networks are pretty much the same, with perhaps only a slight drop off in family “viewability”. However, with cable, there is plenty of more quality and family-viewable programs to choose from. Of course, the flipside is that cable also brings much more stuff that is not appropriate for the whole family. But most cable companies have some type of channel-blocking services, so it shouldn’t be an issue.

See above. With cable, you get entire channels devoted to quality subjects. The History Channel, The Learning Channel, Animal Planet, Disney, Nickelodeon, Dicovery Channel, The Food Network, Discovery’s Health Channel, Cartoon Disney, and the list goes on.

Now without cable, you are more limited in your choices. There is still plenty that is appropriate for the whole family, but if you’re not going to pay for cable, I don’t think you should complain about what you get on “free” TV. It is free.

It’s not, but if you look at today’s lineup that I posted previously, you will see that most(not all) mature programming doesn’t start until 8 pm. I think this is reasonable since most children under 13 should have a bedtime between 8 and 9 pm and should probably stop watching TV around 8 pm anyway. So I don’t see a problem with the current set up.

265

"Yet, 82 percent say they have seen a TV program in the past year that did impart a good message to their child. More than nine out of 10 (93 percent) say television is all right for their child as long as they watch the right shows and in moderation, and 85 percent say they have no problem with their child relaxing for a while in front of a TV.

The survey also found:

Parents are evenly divided on viewing habits, with 48 percent saying they worry their child watches too much TV and 52 percent saying it is not a problem in their house.
While 71 percent of parents say they had been shocked in the past year by something they saw on TV, just 13 percent of that group say they contacted the station or network to complain. And just 22 percent say they have seriously considered taking the ultimate step of getting rid of their TV."

266

maloneted:

Again, simply giving us a list of programs really does not prove the professors point now does it?

Furthermore, having “mature programming starting at 8pm” is not good for families is it? Remember “prime time” is considered 7pm to 10pm according to some authorities on the subject (as I have previously posted).

Finally, I’m glad you agree that pushing the mature programming off to an hour oh so later “is not a bad idea.”

That’s really all I am asking for. Just a little break for parents and others who are tired of the mature themes during prime time.

267

[quote]ToShinDo wrote:
"Yet, 82 percent say they have seen a TV program in the past year that did impart a good message to their child. More than nine out of 10 (93 percent) say television is all right for their child as long as they watch the right shows and in moderation, and 85 percent say they have no problem with their child relaxing for a while in front of a TV.

The survey also found:

Parents are evenly divided on viewing habits, with 48 percent saying they worry their child watches too much TV and 52 percent saying it is not a problem in their house.
While 71 percent of parents say they had been shocked in the past year by something they saw on TV, just 13 percent of that group say they contacted the station or network to complain. And just 22 percent say they have seriously considered taking the ultimate step of getting rid of their TV."[/quote]

Yes, I agree that there are some excellent programs on at various times. My main complaint, as you must know by now, is that prime time has fallen in the sewer relative to family oriented themes. There will be no study that you or the professor can quote that will disprove this, becuase it is a fact. You like, or you don’t, but it’s a fact.

As far as parents complaining, I think the Janet Jackson show during the Super Bowl opened up a pandoras box of problems for the networks. When you see the new Fall line up for the networks I think you are going to see better family programming (from what I have been reading). Not where it should be yet, but a step in the right direction.

It’s normal that single 20 somethings like sex and violence and have little empathy for the family man. At least that’s how I felt when I was that age. Hey, let’s face it that desire (for more mature themed entertainment) is not exclusive of your age bracket. However, when you have children you become just a bit more protective. You, and the few others who made this debate so much fun will probably see that in the not to distant future.

In the mean time enjoy all the mature themed prime time programs that you can on the networks, as I believe their time to be very limited!

268

[quote]ZEB wrote:
maloneted:

Again, simply giving us a list of programs really does not prove the professors point now does it?[/quote]

Did you read the rest of my post? I did not [i]just[/i] list shows. I also compared the show of yesteryear to today’s shows. And in the meantime I gave my response to your inquiry:

I showed that the programming on the free networks is pretty much the same in terms of family viewability today as it was 25 years ago.

I don’t see it being good or bad. 8pm seems like a reasonable time to me. I think 8 is a fair cut off of time for children under 13; who I think need the most "protection from questionable material.

My children are in bed by 9 weekdays, and usually stop watching TV by 8. I don’t see the problem here. Get them away from the TV at 8 and let them wind down and get ready for bed(baths, brushing teeth, etc)in the next 30-45 minutes.

Make sure you understand that all of prime time is not considered “family viewing time”.

“Prime Time” is the time at which the most people(people, not just children) are watching television; thus it is “prime time” for advertising. It earned its title through advertising. Companies reach the highest number people during these hours.

The Federal Communications Commission defines of prime time as the hours from 7 pm to 11 pm (Eastern/Pacific), or 6 pm to 10 pm (Central/Mountain) Sunday through Saturday. I don’t know about you, but I don’t know many kids under 13 staying up through all of prime time.

You’re asking for “a little break for parents and others who are tired of the mature themes during prime time.” So nothing of a mature theme should be shown until after 11 pm? Many adults don’t even stay up that late.

If a program is shown dring prime time, it’s there for a reason. It’s one of the network’s more popular shows. And it’s popular because viewers chose to watch it. If people chose not to watch the show, it would either be cancelled or removed from prime time.

So while your research and polls say one thing, the Nielsen ratings say another.

Here’s the top rated broadcast shows For week of 3/07/05-3/13/05:
1 CSI
2 American Idol - tue
2 American Idol - wed
4 Without a Trace
5 American Idol - special 3/7
5 CSI: Miami
6 Survivor: Palau
7 Two and a Half Men
8 Everybody Loves Raymond
9 Cold Case

The top rated show is a mature-themed crime drama. There are 4 mature dramas on the list.

There are 2 sitcoms, and I believe Two and a Half Men only made the list because it was the debut show. Not only this but top ranked CSI had almost twice the total viewers as either of these shows.

Then there is American Idol. This is the family programming that everybody is crying for? It’s definitely appropriate for all ages, but it’s the only thing on the list for all ages; rated TV-G. With all your polls screaming for cleaner TV, I would think more “all-age, family-viewable” TV would make the list.

Now here’s the top ten cable TV programs for week of 3/07/05-3/13/05:
1 Law & Order
2 WWE Raw
3 WWE RawZone
4 Fairly Odd Parents
4 SpongeBob Squarepants
4 Law & Order: SVU
7 SpongeBob Squarepants
7 Gladiator(movie)
7 Law & Order
7 Lies My Mother Told Me(movie)

Once again the top rated show is a mature crime drama. And that’s followed by wrestling. Twice. WWE holds spots 2 and 3. That’s some family values being cried for there, huh?

Then we have two Nickelodeon cartoons. OK, there’s some family viewing. Two shows in the top 5.

Did you notice this was cable? So cable viewers can find family programs. I may be wrong here, but I don’t think either of these cartoons is even shown in prime time. So cable viewers made a choice and went outside of prime time. Good for them. That’s what I’m trying to point out. Viewers have a choice.

But, overall, it looks like viewers like the mature-themed shows most, holding 7 of the 20 spots in the two lists.

Of course they noticed an increase. There’s an increase in everything. There’s more channels, so there’s more good and bad. I thought I pointed this out to you already. I could probably go on and disect all your polls and studies.

One last thing to add was rainjack’s comment that most of the top grossing movies are family oriented.

The top grossing movies year-by-year are fairly mixed. Some year’s lists have mostly non-family movies while others have more family movies.

However the top grossing movies of all time are, in order:
1 Titanic
2 Star Wars IV: A New Hope
3 Shrek 2
4 ET
5 Star Wars I: Phantom Menace
6 Spider-Man
7 Lord of the Rings: Return of the King
8 Spider-Man 2
9 Passion of the Christ
10 Jurassic Park
11 Lord of the Rings: Two Towers
12 Finding Nemo
13 Forest Gump
14 Lion King
15 Harry Potter and Sorceror’s Stone
16 Lord of the Rings: Fellowship of the Ring
17 Star Wars II: Attack of the Clones
18 Star Wars VI: Return of the Jedi
19 Independence Day
20 Pirates of the Caribbean

The only G-rated movies on the list are Finding Nemo and The Lion King.

In my eyes the list of real family movies are: Shrek 2, ET, Finding Nemo, Lion King, and Harry Potter. If you include the Star Wars films(which is debatable) the list becomes even with family and not-so-family films.

It looks to me that with movies, viewers are pretty much split down the middle with what they like.

269

Malonetd, that was impressive.

270

[quote]malonetd wrote:
However the top grossing movies of all time are, in order:
1 Titanic
2 Star Wars IV: A New Hope
3 Shrek 2
4 ET
5 Star Wars I: Phantom Menace
6 Spider-Man
7 Lord of the Rings: Return of the King
8 Spider-Man 2
9 Passion of the Christ
10 Jurassic Park
11 Lord of the Rings: Two Towers
12 Finding Nemo
13 Forest Gump
14 Lion King
15 Harry Potter and Sorceror’s Stone
16 Lord of the Rings: Fellowship of the Ring
17 Star Wars II: Attack of the Clones
18 Star Wars VI: Return of the Jedi
19 Independence Day
20 Pirates of the Caribbean

The only G-rated movies on the list are Finding Nemo and The Lion King.

In my eyes the list of real family movies are: Shrek 2, ET, Finding Nemo, Lion King, and Harry Potter. If you include the Star Wars films(which is debatable) the list becomes even with family and not-so-family films.

It looks to me like with movies, viewers are pretty much split down the middle with what they like.[/quote]

Yeah - that was pretty good.

But of this list, there are no hard ‘R’ films. I think my kids have seen all of these movies with the exception of Pirates of the Caribbean. Granted, the vast majority were seen on video/dvd with the remote in either mine or jana’s hand ,and our fingers on the FF button. That’s the advantage of videos - we can edit content on the fly.

Not so with television. And I think this is my gripe that has taken days to finally come out: What I want for the one hour we watch TV together is for all of us to be able relax and enjoy some family programming that is new, unanimated, and entertaining.

It would also be nice if the cialis, levitra, and viagra folks would just wait until after 8:00 p.m. central to sttart trying to gain new customers.

Maybe the market won’t bare my wishes, but thats what I would like to see.

I agree with both you and Prof that there are way too many parents out there who allow TV to babysit their kids, after an already long day at a daycare center.

However, I am not one of those parents, as my 13 year-old son reads at the college level, and my 10 year-old daughter reads at a highschool level. Unfortunately, there is no respite from always having to look out for their best interests.

271

Yes that was impressive. Zeb loses hands down. Actualy he lost a while ago and tried to change the rules.
This whole arguement can be boiled down to this:
Z-I don’t like whats on T.V.

Chorus- Then don’t watch it.

R- You don’t have kids so you don’t know anything!

Chorus- If you don’t like it, don’t watch it.

Zeb, Rainjack, you guys are just going to have to face the fact that you must govern what enters and occurs in your household. If you can’t do that, then You sure as hell aren’t in any position to make public policy. Then to discredit someones morals and ethical stances based on the fact that they don’t have kids is absurd, underhanded, and just plain cheap.
Now go pay attention to those kids you keep writing about and maybee they can learn something usefull from their parents, instead of a bunch of garbage from that thing you so despise.

272

[quote]mindeffer01 wrote:
Zeb, Rainjack, you guys are just going to have to face the fact that you must govern what enters and occurs in your household. If you can’t do that, then You sure as hell aren’t in any position to make public policy. Then to discredit someones morals and ethical stances based on the fact that they don’t have kids is absurd, underhanded, and just plain cheap.
Now go pay attention to those kids you keep writing about and maybee they can learn something usefull from their parents, instead of a bunch of garbage from that thing you so despise.
[/quote]

I don’t know if I could have made it another day without the expert advice from someone’s uncle.

273

All I have to say is those of you who don’t have any children but plan on it in the future, Your views may come full circle and bite you in the A$$. I have a sister in law that has eaten a lot of her old words now that she has children herself. When you have children ,if you have any I guarantee your whole thought process will change. You might even catch yourself sounding like your parents, heaven forbid.

274

You’re right. I didn’t even look at it that way. The only movie on the list that I would definitely not let my kids see is Passion of the Christ. Although, I havn’t seen it, I have been told it is pretty graphic.

Did you ever have this hour? What show(s) did you watch during this hour? Hell, I don’t know if all four of us could ever agree on something on a regular basis. The Simpsons was the closest thing for us, but you’re asking unanimated. I’m curious what would qualify for this that is played on a weekly, or at least regular, basis.

I agree with this, but advertising is advertising. If they pay for the time slot, the get to show their product.

The sports page pisses me off, too. Like every sports fan is balding, impotent, and frequents strip clubs. Well, I guess a lot of them are, since they keep advertising there.

275

[quote]malonetd wrote:
Did you ever have this hour? What show(s) did you watch during this hour? Hell, I don’t know if all four of us could ever agree on something on a regular basis. The Simpsons was the closest thing for us, but you’re asking unanimated. I’m curious what would qualify for this that is played on a weekly, or at least regular, basis. .[/quote]

This is one question we don’t seem to be able to get an answer to. I don’t remember ever having “family tv night” where we all just sat and watched tv. We had video nights where we went and rented something and we watched. I think some here have made up some fantasy past where tv was only g-rated and all shows at night were all family oriented. Any shows I liked as a kid would have been unrelateable to my parents. While I was into Knight Rider, I seriously can’t see my mom watching that. She never did. What shows were these that inspired the whole family to sit nightly together and watch?

I always had homework to do or games outside to play. I had video games when all else failed and never just sat in front of the tv with my parents. Could someone tell me what shows you all were watching that have now been overshadowed with…gasp…Seventh Heaven?

For the record, I do believe most shows that would even be considered “family oriented” like The Facts of Life or Different Strokes were on way before 8pm. They were on when we got home from school, not that late at night. I think some of you have faulty memories.

276

One thing I would add to this extensive ‘bad tv’ debate.

Parents’ tastes can change. Without going into an extensive review of the shows of the late 70s or whatever, it’s not accurate to think that parents are on some linear track to be more and more accepting of sex and loose behavior on television.

Maybe the kids of the 1970s were aghast at the wild crap on television during their time and have vowed to wage war on behalf of their children.

That’s right - regardless of your label - there is a chance that parents have gotten more conservative/prudish/Victorian in their preferences for television for their children than their parents were.

Not that surprising, really - it’s been said that Gen X is remarkably more traditional than their wacky Boomer parents. I don’t know if this is quantifiably true, but I think it perfectly reasonable to think that if there were over-the-top programs back in the day that newer parents now are staging a backlash.

This notion that ‘progress’ is a one-way bus trip to libertine utopia is nonsense. I see tons more young adults taking marriage and family more seriously than their parents did. And that might be the root of much of the criticism today - an interest in returning to traditional values.

Just food for thought - but I suspect that there are many outraged at how far the pendulum swung and now they want to move it in the other direction. And the reaction to Janet Jackson’s mammaries may have been the defining moment.

277

maloneted:

No, you gave your opinion, which is fine, but proves nothing other than you think some shows are fine and others are not. So?

I have proven that the majority of people, parents as well as the general population think that there is a serious problem with the prime time programs of today relative to sexually “mature themes”. Again, you did not disprove that, (or anything else) by your list.

In fact, your post is all about your opinion, which is fine, you are entitled to it, but “proves” nothing. Another example: “8pm seems like a reasonable time to me” (for prime time cut off). While that may seem reasonable to “you” that is not what has been traditonal “prime time” in this country:

“Prime time is that portion of the evening when the American audience levels for television viewing are at their highest. In the Eastern and Pacific time zones, prime time is 7:00 - 11:00 p.m., in the Central and Mountain time zones prime time is 6:00 - 10:00 p.m… The 9:00 p.m. hour (Eastern and Pacific) and the 8:00 p.m. hour (Central and Mountain) have the highest HUT (homes using television) level.”

You may read the article in it’s entirity if you like:

http://www.museum.tv/archives/etv/P/htmlP/primetime/primetime.htm

I am also well aware that “prime time is the time that most people are viewing, not just parents.” I have been over this several times:

“In a national opinion poll conducted for TV Guide (8/2/03), 57% of TV viewers said they 'noticed an increase in offensive material on television lately.”

It is the general consensus among (responsible) adults that prime time viewing has gone in the wrong direction. Once again, I respect your opinion, but that does not make you right or even in the majority on this issue. Furthermore you have not proven your point just because you gave your opinion.

“While your research and polls say one thing the Nielson ratings say another.” No actually they are speaking to two different things. The Nielsons say that certain segments of the population are in fact watching certain programs. My “research and polls” show that the majority of the people, both parents and non parents want different choices!

I agree “there is an increase in everything on TV good and bad.” However, my point, as it has always been is that the increase in sexually (mature) themed programs during prime time is not appreciated, or needed by the American family.

Your list of movies once again proves my point. Families want to see movies like the “Titanic” “Star Wars” “Shrek” “ET” “Spider Man” and look at that “Passion of the Christ” is number 9 on the all time list! Impressive, that will really tick off the God haters…

While they may not have a “G” rating (Did I ever say that movies had to have a G rating?)Those movies obviously do not have a sexually oriented theme. They are adventure films etc. This once again proves my point that families are after quality entertainment without sexual adult themes! If “families” were after the crud that you seem to think they are why don’t you have sexually oriented themed movies in the top 20? I didn’t see one!

Again you inject your opinion: “In my eyes the list of real family movies…” Well, in reality you have proven my original point: Families do not want to see sexually (mature themed) entertainment. You have shown that this is the case with your top 20 list, and I thank you! :slight_smile:

I think if the mature themed shows were moved back even one hour that would be a victory for families…what do you think?

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Mindeffer01:

This response is typical, and quite wrong minded. You probably could have written one line and sort of made your point: “Get out of our face, don’t like it don’t watch it, we 20 somethings have opinions and you can lump it.”

Furthermore, it adds nothing to the debate. What you have posted is basically professors tired old lines. They didn’t make sense when he wrote them either!

I have already demonstrated that there is so much distaste for prime time shows that something needs to be done. Your reply: “Don’t watch it.” Gee…ya think?

We have been over this one. At what point do families stand up and say: “We are tired of not having the choices we once had.” I think that time is now!

The only reason I am spending anytime at all replying to your tired old arguments is that…well I just had to point out that they are tired, old arguments. they prove nothing, other than you are selfish and unwilling to change one thing in your life so that families can have better choices, like they used to have before they were taken away. :slight_smile:

(How old are you? No seriously)

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[quote]Professor X wrote:
For the record, I do believe most shows that would even be considered “family oriented” like The Facts of Life or Different Strokes were on way before 8pm. They were on when we got home from school, not that late at night. I think some of you have faulty memories.[/quote]

professor:

For the record you are wrong… again! Different Strokes was on at 9pm (how about that, prime time!) on Wednesday NBC. It ran from 1978 to 1986. “The Facts Of Life” was also on at 9pm! Another NBC show from 1979 to 1988. Another family show during prime tim

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[quote]ZEB wrote:
ToShinDo wrote:
"Yet, 82 percent say they have seen a TV program in the past year that did impart a good message to their child. More than nine out of 10 (93 percent) say television is all right for their child as long as they watch the right shows and in moderation, and 85 percent say they have no problem with their child relaxing for a while in front of a TV.

The survey also found:

Parents are evenly divided on viewing habits, with 48 percent saying they worry their child watches too much TV and 52 percent saying it is not a problem in their house.
While 71 percent of parents say they had been shocked in the past year by something they saw on TV, just 13 percent of that group say they contacted the station or network to complain. And just 22 percent say they have seriously considered taking the ultimate step of getting rid of their TV."

Yes, I agree that there are some excellent programs on at various times. My main complaint, as you must know by now, is that prime time has fallen in the sewer relative to family oriented themes. There will be no study that you or the professor can quote that will disprove this, becuase it is a fact. You like, or you don’t, but it’s a fact.[/quote]

My only point is that there are good things on TV.

That survey also showed that although many parents don’t like what they see, few do anything about it.

For the record, I’m not against mature themed shows being on later. However, I don’t think that would satisfy the conservative cabal. Already there are those pushing for cable, Pay-per-view and satellite radio to be censored. That’s ridiculous. Regular radio has already been molested by the FCC, leave pay services alone.

I wonder why the emphasis is on sex, and it almost always has been. Violence isn’t mentioned very often in this context. Do most parents feel it’s okay to see a fist fight but not “heavy petting”? Just curious.

Finally, if one’s child was going on a field trip to an art museum, would you protest, knowing that they would be exposed to at least a couple scenes of nudity? (David, the Naked Maja, chubby Baroque ladies, etc.)