Where Does America Stand?!

Gents

We dealt with this issue long ago. Republican or Democrat, liberal or conservative…we may argue till we are blue in the face but when the shit hits the fan we are all americans first and foremost.

We all want the same thing, just have different opinions on how to reach it, thank God.

Like Winston Churchill said: Americans always do the right thing, after they have exhausted all of the other possibilities.

Sorry for the sentimentality but I just came from a fairly moving charity event and I am feeling particularly bipartisan.

[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
JeffR wrote:
Wetdrmscap,

Nice name!!!

I appreciate your recent posts.

I must correct you on something, this is most definetly NOT a liberal site.

The name “Testosterone” should be a dead give-away that more people are going to be Conservative.

Think on it. When under the bar, you succeed or fail based on you and you alone.

If you miss it, you miss it. You can’t blame W., your absent father, society, prejudice, or call out 10,000 lawyers (I love you BB) to change the result.

Therefore, most of us on this forum are into things like personal responsibility.

Conservative!!!

JeffR

So because I lift and I lift heavy–I am a republican–shoot me now. This is th most bogus post ever. Don’t believe that taking responsibility for oneself makes them conservative–it makes them a man. Testosterone does not make one conservative it makes one a man. [/quote]

This was a stupid post. JeffR NEVER said Republican OR Democrat. I am conservative and am LIBERTARIAN. Get a clue…

[quote]wetdrmscap wrote:
I think we were not only right in going into Iraq, but I think we should have taken care of it the first time we were in the area. Now, I hear most of you say: “Oh, the oil, all we want is the oil” all while holding pictures of Bush and Cheney with their Haliburton contacts, etc…

All things aside, let me pose a question to you all to see what you think: Would the Iraqi people be better off had the U.S. never Bthe U.S. arrived, Sadaam Hussein and his tyranny had complete control over the country, and showed no mercy to his own people. The accounts of torture, abuse, murder, genocide go on and on. Most of the country had NO running water before the coalition got there. Before the war, 25% of the countries hospitals were up and running, now, 100% of them are operational.

Living in this country we take for granted things like, being protected by our government/country, instead of the thousands upon thousands being gassed, like the khurds were by Sadaam. The athletes in the country no longer have the pressure of “Win, or die!” that was a hallmark of Sadaam, and his son’s… Almost every city thoughout the country did not have a fully functional police force, or none at all. Girls are NOW, for the first time allowed to attend school in Iraq…Oh yeah, and about the oil???

For all those liberal, tree-hugging protestors out there, the first thing we secured was the oil fields!!! What was our first move you ask? We handed their control over to the Iraqi government, and proceeded to assit them in getting the pumping stations running to produce THEIR oil, in order to generate THEIR money, to help THEIR country! In fact, Iraq just had it’s first 2 billion barrel producing month…The United States is profiting $0.00 on Iraq’s oil so I don’t know what all these people are talking about. We are setting up a legitmate government for the first time in decades, instilling rights among the people, and ridding the region of terrorists that prey on their own innocent civilians. We will look back in 20 years at this thing and reflect upon how vital a free, democratic Iraq is to the enitre middle east and rest of the world for that matter. The ones benefiting MOST from the United States’ involvement in Iraq??? The Iraqi people!
-Cheers[/quote]

to be frickn frank i don’t know jack about politics but from what i know about the war this stuff right here bugs me more than seein’ foulke in the 9th inning. point being: i don’t give a flying fuck about iraq or any of the people over there. and i don’t believe anyone does unless they’ve got iraqi friends or relatives. so everytime i hear the bad news i keep wonderin’ what the frick we’re doing over there gettin’ killed and spending good money ? and when i hear the good news about hospitals and electricity and sewars and schools i think big frickn deal what are we, that means me and the rest of the whole frickn u.s.of a., getting out of this ? i got no frickn idea how you know what the future’s lookin’like in twenty years there swami, but i can tell you when i look back on the last twenty years, which is about as far as i can look back, i remember growing up with sports programs at every level. today my high school can’t afford even a varsity football team, let alone j.v. or mod-a. they just sent me a letter asking for a donation . so again why should i give a rat’s ass for anyone in iraq and where’s the frickn return on our investment ?

[quote]swivel wrote:
so everytime i hear the bad news i keep wonderin’ what the frick we’re doing over there gettin’ killed and spending good money ? and when i hear the good news about hospitals and electricity and sewars and schools i think big frickn deal what are we, that means me and the rest of the whole frickn u.s.of a., getting out of this ? i got no frickn idea how you know what the future’s lookin’like in twenty years there swami, but i can tell you when i look back on the last twenty years, which is about as far as i can look back, i remember growing up with sports programs at every level. today my high school can’t afford even a varsity football team, let alone j.v. or mod-a. they just sent me a letter asking for a donation . so again why should i give a rat’s ass for anyone in iraq and where’s the frickn return on our investment ? [/quote]

Are you seriously comparing freeing millions of people in the heart of the Middle East to your piss poor high school being able to field a football team?

Feel free to slit your wrists at any time.

Elk,

“Would you care to see copies of my DD214’s?”

I am not doubting your service - I know you served and I appreciate it, by the way.

My point was that you didn’t serve that or a country, you served your country, so when somebody says we in regards to American action, it is the same thing.

[quote]thunderbolt23 wrote:
Elk,

“Would you care to see copies of my DD214’s?”

I am not doubting your service - I know you served and I appreciate it, by the way.

My point was that you didn’t serve that or a country, you served your country, so when somebody says we in regards to American action, it is the same thing.[/quote]

I believe that what Elk is saying, and correct me if I’m wrong here Elk, is that serving gives you a different perspective.

Graphicsman,

“I believe that what Elk is saying, and correct me if I’m wrong here Elk, is that serving gives you a different perspective.”

I am not suggesting that serving doesn’t give you a different perspective.

Elk suggested that being possessory of something - ie, my team or my country - could only be achieved if you physically participated.

Wrong.

The most telling stat behind whether the war is right or wrong is the current state of the military and recruiting.
I whole-heartedly support our military and considering that not one of my friends that served is willing to re-up, I think that speaks volumes.
When the cause is right, you don’t have to bribe people to join you.

[quote]evmc wrote:
The most telling stat behind whether the war is right or wrong is the current state of the military and recruiting.
I whole-heartedly support our military and considering that not one of my friends that served is willing to re-up, I think that speaks volumes.
When the cause is right, you don’t have to bribe people to join you.[/quote]

And that is todays “strong word”. I know of so many people trying to get out the military lately it isn’t even funny. Anyone who is hitting 20 years is bailing. I see very few who are looking to stay in one extra day, most making remarks like, “I’ve had enough”. While I am sure you can find many who would say otherwise, the record low recruiting numbers should be speaking volumes to anyone willing to push politics aside for a second and open their ears to common sense.

[quote]doogie wrote:
swivel wrote:
so everytime i hear the bad news i keep wonderin’ what the frick we’re doing over there gettin’ killed and spending good money ? and when i hear the good news about hospitals and electricity and sewars and schools i think big frickn deal what are we, that means me and the rest of the whole frickn u.s.of a., getting out of this ? i got no frickn idea how you know what the future’s lookin’like in twenty years there swami, but i can tell you when i look back on the last twenty years, which is about as far as i can look back, i remember growing up with sports programs at every level. today my high school can’t afford even a varsity football team, let alone j.v. or mod-a. they just sent me a letter asking for a donation . so again why should i give a rat’s ass for anyone in iraq and where’s the frickn return on our investment ?

Are you seriously comparing freeing millions of people in the heart of the Middle East to your piss poor high school being able to field a football team?

Feel free to slit your wrists at any time.

[/quote]

yep. point being why spend american lives and money for iraqi’s ? there’s frickn tons of stuff we could spend that money on. why give them a frickn handout ? what’s in it for us ? why should i slit my wrists 'cause i’m posting a couple of questions based on what i personally know rather than talking out my ass about a bunch of shit i can only guess at 'cause i learned it from frickn mass media blurbs and snippets ?

[quote]thunderbolt23 wrote:
Elk,

“Would you care to see copies of my DD214’s?”

I am not doubting your service - I know you served and I appreciate it, by the way.

My point was that you didn’t serve that or a country, you served your country, so when somebody says we in regards to American action, it is the same thing.[/quote]

Hey, Thunder, it wasn’t a very good comment. Like I said, I said it because someone blasted somebody for something similar referencing an NBA game. It was being snide if anything. Let’s let it die.

This post is targeted to prior service members. Some important questions are burning in my mind and need clarification:

Before I enlisted into the USAF, my forethoughts of how the government operated was a little misguided and construed immaturely. However, my duties forced me to understand the politics of war and propaganda. And the media is a cesspool for conglomerate, and conflicting debate let me tell you. It detracts, in its entirety, from America’s standpoint. It’s called breaking news people! It’s called ratings! And Americans are left standing, with little flags in-hand and ribbons on their cars, with confused looks on their faces.

That’s why I must ask:

  1. Have prior serviceman/women’s views changed towards the goals of a democratic/republican party? Or are they still the same? And what led you to adhere to your decision regarding Americans in Iraq?

  2. Does being prior service give you a better understanding of how a particular governed party operates?

Thank you,
OD

The only question I will answer at this point is what makes you adhere to your view on Iraq. As I stated before being involved in the first war it lead me to have an iterest, non partisan, just interest in what was going on over there.

I remember all through the 90’s reading about the no fly zone and how occasionally the Iraqi’s would paint one of our planes on radar and we would usually end up taking out the SAM site or said radar. No US planes were shot down and it was pretty suicidal on their part for who ever was manning the radar or SAM site.

So, when the current Administration came into office and started their propaganda machine rolling that Iraq was the biggest danger on the block and was ready to put the screws to America any minute, it made me nauseus with the level of exageration and outright lies that were being disseminated.

To me it wouldn’t have mattered if it was a democrat admin who pulled this, I would still be calling bullshit and sickened by the lies.

Again it’s my opinion that if you are going to send thousands of people to their death from both sides you had better be damn certain it the last resort.

When it starts to affect some of the cheerleaders closer to home like they are drafted are their son, or cousin, or daughter dies, they will start changing their tune as well. When it affects you directly it has an affect of changing your perspective.

[quote]Elkhntr1 wrote:
thunderbolt23 wrote:
Elk,

“Would you care to see copies of my DD214’s?”

I am not doubting your service - I know you served and I appreciate it, by the way.

My point was that you didn’t serve that or a country, you served your country, so when somebody says we in regards to American action, it is the same thing.

Hey, Thunder, it wasn’t a very good comment. Like I said, I said it because someone blasted somebody for something similar referencing an NBA game. It was being snide if anything. Let’s let it die.[/quote]

This makes me smile!

[quote]Rockscar wrote:
Elkhntr1 wrote:
thunderbolt23 wrote:
Elk,

“Would you care to see copies of my DD214’s?”

I am not doubting your service - I know you served and I appreciate it, by the way.

My point was that you didn’t serve that or a country, you served your country, so when somebody says we in regards to American action, it is the same thing.

Hey, Thunder, it wasn’t a very good comment. Like I said, I said it because someone blasted somebody for something similar referencing an NBA game. It was being snide if anything. Let’s let it die.

This makes me smile!

[/quote]

Why? Hey, I’ve got a gold mine in Cripple Creek, Co. full of untapped gold for sale. Interested?

Elk:

It makes me smile because you guys made up and you agreed to drop it. Too many it seems feel personally insulted, but I say this is fun, clean, healthy debating.

Sometimes people take attitude outside this forum topic and it really should not happen.

I’ve seen my father and one of my best friends almost throw down, and to the point my friend left. I was pretty pissed at my dad for going so far. I call him a Fanatic Conservative, while I’m pretty even keel. It was a bad scene. My friend was going on about how “these poor schmucks in Iraq we are sending to die for oil…” and with my families own blood there on scene in Iraq my Dad tried to make him take it back…“My Nephew is not a schmuch…etc” All my friend was trying to do was make his point, but then all hell broke loose.

We are all lucky to be alive and in good health. Just a thought.

What’s up with the gold mine thing? I don’t get it.

What I don’t like about the war is the cost. The US goverment debt is more than 7 trillion dollars now, and its rising fast. Its not something to laugh about because the government doesn’t owe it to itself, they owe most of it to the federal reserve, which is owned by a consortium of international bankers (Funny thing is that it is payable in paper money, but there isn’t even 500 billion of that in circulation).

Asian countries also hold much of the debt. This debt is not going to be paid off, but you can bet the interest payments will make up the lions share of your taxes, until there is blood in the streets.

Rockscar wrote:
“I’ve seen my father and one of my best friends almost throw down, and to the point my friend left. I was pretty pissed at my dad for going so far. I call him a Fanatic Conservative, while I’m pretty even keel. It was a bad scene. My friend was going on about how “these poor schmucks in Iraq we are sending to die for oil…” and with my families own blood there on scene in Iraq my Dad tried to make him take it back…“My Nephew is not a schmuch…etc” All my friend was trying to do was make his point, but then all hell broke loose.”

It was the fact that your friend insisted on herbal tea, lives in a tree, says “sorta of” every other word, knows the difference between a vendi and grande latte, has arms eight inches around, won’t admit he contributed to kerry’s campaign, says marriage is “overrated”, has an “Anarchy in Ireland” sticker on his car, can’t spell, doesn’t wash, wears 16 year old sandals, drives a 1983 datsun, and calls himself “sophisticated” that pissed me off.

Your Dad,

JeffR