Finance & economics major and still doesn’t realize the US economy is in the shitter…
[quote]MiniMe23 wrote:
[quote]smh23 wrote:
I’m in a similar situation OP–3.9 GPA with published research and all the academic bells and whistles, graduated last May, and have worked nothing but low level and min-wage dead end jobs since. I wish I could get back all of the hours I’ve spent applying to jobs for which I’m overqualified that I’ll somehow never even hear back from.
Its rough. Hang in there and you’ll find something eventually as long as you work hard enough at it. Get to know someone important with their fingers close to the levers of power within an institution, that goes a lot further than grades or work experience. I decided fuck it, I’m going to grad school and seeing if the market isn’t any better in a year or two when I’m more qualified. If not then there’s always bank robbery.[/quote]
Thats terrible to hear, but I’m glad we can unfortunately relate to some degree. A few of my friends decided to go to grad school and ride out the bad job market…one friend is attending a school that is costing him roughly 65K for the 13 month program and while he is at least getting interviews it is for jobs only paying 55K a year… plus the wall street bonuses aren’t what they used to be considering you still work just as many hours. I don’t know that the return on investment for grad school is what it was a couple years ago.
I would have done the same however, I was hoping to have a position by now…study the GMAT and get into a top 10 MBA in a couple of years down the road. At this point, if I study for the GMAT then I am another good year out until they start in August of 2012.
If I could have done it all over again, knowing what I know now, I probably would have traveled for a year (Europe, Australia…etc) instead of staying up late at night freaking out over getting a job… hindsight… its a terrible thing.[/quote]
lol I hear you on the traveling thing. Thankfully I saw that nothing was happening and quit a min. wage job in October, took all my money and went hiking in Spain for a month.
Good luck with the GMAT if you end up taking it in the coming months. I think I too may end up doing the business school thing at some point down the road, though hopefully not for a while.
[quote]Cimmerian wrote:
[quote]Teledin wrote:
I envy the U.S. college system. You have much more opportunity to make it big than over here.
I wanted to take Business Internship 1 & 2 (2 semesters of work placement) to go with my accounting + finance degree. I had 3 months to find a placement and got rejected for everything. Wasn’t paid internship either, so it leaves me scratching my head. University wouldn’t help either - in fact they only just this year began helping students with negotiating work placements.
:([/quote]
I know the feeling. What uni, if you don’t mind me asking?
The US college system sounds top-rate, but I’m glad I’m not a recent graduate looking for work in the US economy.[/quote]
Deakin.
Seriously the Australian undergraduate system is somewhat of a joke. You spend 3-4 years getting the same shit reiterated to you by different academics, to the point where you only need to familiarise yourself with new content to actually score well on an exam.
It’s kind of funny when I think about it now. All those networking events we had that clashed with my classes … being told to attend classes … actually leaves you worse off if you did what they told you. If I could do it all again, I would probably focus less on my studies and more on extra curricular activities.
Unfortunately I ‘did what I was told to do’ and ended up probably worse off for it. Now just gotta make do with what I’ve been dealt and move on. I probably should of networked more in my own time too, but I was lazy.
Australia’s post-grad courses are rock solid though. I just don’t think there is enough emphasis or flexibility available to people straight out of high school. I.e. I had to do 8 core units as part of my degree despite not wanting to do marketing, management and info systems. Without those, I could of gotten an economics or financial planning major.
Have you considered graduate schemes? They’re good because they typically go on your academics rather than work experience. They’re specifically designed for graduates with potential (which you seem to have going by your academics) and no experience. Especially in the finance sector.
I spent over a year, sending off close to a hundred well researched applications, and didn’t get a SINGLE interview.
Then, in the last month alone, I’ve had five final round interviews (fucked them all up, hah) alone.
What did I do different? I haven’t got a clue. It feels damn scary being a graduate, and a bit random.
[quote]ucallthatbass wrote:
Finance & economics major and still doesn’t realize the US economy is in the shitter…[/quote]
You beat me to it!
[quote]Magicpunch wrote:
Have you considered graduate schemes? They’re good because they typically go on your academics rather than work experience. They’re specifically designed for graduates with potential (which you seem to have going by your academics) and no experience. Especially in the finance sector.
I spent over a year, sending off close to a hundred well researched applications, and didn’t get a SINGLE interview.
Then, in the last month alone, I’ve had five final round interviews (fucked them all up, hah) alone.
What did I do different? I haven’t got a clue. It feels damn scary being a graduate, and a bit random.
[/quote]
I’m going to have a look at those. I really haven’t heard of them before to be honest. My GPA was brought down a lot more than I liked due to several subjects I hated and really didn’t bother to try in - marketing, stats, info systems and management. Also I failed one unit due to circumstance when my radiator fan stopped working the day of my exam (I was walking into it with 80%). Through my majors I averaged well over 70 and that unit I failed, I ended up repeating and getting 85% very comfortably.
Will look into it tomorrow. its nearly 2am, I got the flu and barely survived driving home from work. Time for sleep. 
[quote]PeteS wrote:
networking. you have to get around the HR people an in front of the actual hiring managers, or those above them.
a 3rd party recruiter can help with this. [/quote]
I am an evil H.R. Manager…muuhahahahahaha
But seriously, I see literally 100’s of resumes a week. I look at every single one, if you are not MORE qualified than the next level group I have separated already, you are getting deleted. EVEN if you meet the qualifications for the opening.
Accounting/Finance is the most competitive industry out there, and somebody coming out of college is going up against people with 2-5 years of experience, guess who I am going to interview.
And going over my head to the hiring managers is the single WORST thing you can do…they are already busy, and you bugging them is a guaranteed way to get the delete button. They are actively involved in the second round of interviews, not the first.
[quote]debraD wrote:
It’s super important to make contacts on the inside instead of relying on HR to pass your resume along. When my manager was looking for people he got ZERO applicants. Meanwhile I dropped off my resume and contacted HR afterward to confirm they received it and the asshat sighed and told me she’d check as soon as she had a moment and she’d contact me if she didn’t receive it.
At the same time I’m e-mailing a couple of friends who work there and they say that there hasn’t been any applicants according to the manager. So I get them to give my resume to him directly and he hired me right away.
What actually happens is underqualified morons in HR think they can filter out resumes based on their own criteria even if they have no background in the position being hired for. I have no idea what they didn’t like about mine but you need to be a psychic to know what some HR moron is looking for. They might turf it because it has too many pages or because it has only one page or because they don’t like the font or your use of acronyms or lack of acronyms…
You HAVE to get on the inside. Get on boards and comittees and volunteer and search and rescue or whatever and get to know people who are in the company you want to work for. It sounds like a lot of trouble but once you’re in the industry you won;t have to try so hard.[/quote]
Deb, if you were not so damn cute, I would be offended by your view of HR people. 
[quote]Berserkergang wrote:
[quote]ucallthatbass wrote:
Finance & economics major and still doesn’t realize the US economy is in the shitter…[/quote]
You beat me to it!
[/quote]
Not sure why you both assume I am not aware of this, and I’m not sure how this addresses the main question. However, now that both of you have brought this mind blowing concept to my attention then I might as well just give up looking for a job all together. This is great advice/personal experiences that you have offered. Thanks.
[quote]MiniMe23 wrote:
[quote]Berserkergang wrote:
[quote]ucallthatbass wrote:
Finance & economics major and still doesn’t realize the US economy is in the shitter…[/quote]
You beat me to it!
[/quote]
Not sure why you both assume I am not aware of this, and I’m not sure how this addresses the main question. However, now that both of you have brought this mind blowing concept to my attention then I might as well just give up looking for a job all together. This is great advice/personal experiences that you have offered. Thanks.[/quote]
Don’t give up, but staying busy IS important. When I look at a resume, I take into account the recession when it comes to employment history.
But maybe start looking at unpaid work in the finance industry, work at night to pay the bills…keep your job history moving forward.
[quote]UtahLama wrote:
[quote]PeteS wrote:
networking. you have to get around the HR people an in front of the actual hiring managers, or those above them.
a 3rd party recruiter can help with this. [/quote]
I am an evil H.R. Manager…muuhahahahahaha
But seriously, I see literally 100’s of resumes a week. I look at every single one, if you are not MORE qualified than the next level group I have separated already, you are getting deleted. EVEN if you meet the qualifications for the opening.
Accounting/Finance is the most competitive industry out there, and somebody coming out of college is going up against people with 2-5 years of experience, guess who I am going to interview.
And going over my head to the hiring managers is the single WORST thing you can do…they are already busy, and you bugging them is a guaranteed way to get the delete button. They are actively involved in the second round of interviews, not the first. [/quote]
UtahLama - you sound like the kind of person that can offer me the best advice. If you were looking at resumes and someone didn’t have as much experience as others but have just as many academic qualifications then what would make the difference to get me into the next pile? Volunteering, a minimum wage retail job, traveling in europe?
At this point my background is what it is. Going forward, what do people in HR typically like to see?
Do I spend my time working at walmart stocking shelves if I want to get into investment banking? What do I do now to maximize my chances of getting into the next pile?
[quote]MiniMe23 wrote:
[quote]UtahLama wrote:
[quote]PeteS wrote:
networking. you have to get around the HR people an in front of the actual hiring managers, or those above them.
a 3rd party recruiter can help with this. [/quote]
I am an evil H.R. Manager…muuhahahahahaha
But seriously, I see literally 100’s of resumes a week. I look at every single one, if you are not MORE qualified than the next level group I have separated already, you are getting deleted. EVEN if you meet the qualifications for the opening.
Accounting/Finance is the most competitive industry out there, and somebody coming out of college is going up against people with 2-5 years of experience, guess who I am going to interview.
And going over my head to the hiring managers is the single WORST thing you can do…they are already busy, and you bugging them is a guaranteed way to get the delete button. They are actively involved in the second round of interviews, not the first. [/quote]
UtahLama - you sound like the kind of person that can offer me the best advice. If you were looking at resumes and someone didn’t have as much experience as others but have just as many academic qualifications then what would make the difference to get me into the next pile? Volunteering, a minimum wage retail job, traveling in europe?
At this point my background is what it is. Going forward, what do people in HR typically like to see?
Do I spend my time working at walmart stocking shelves if I want to get into investment banking? What do I do now to maximize my chances of getting into the next pile?[/quote]
Well I work for a energy developer, so I cannot speak to the investment banking question. But we do hire Finance folks for our various divisions. If somebody has more experience and the same education I will go with the experienced person every time. If the less experienced person has superior education (MBA, MAcc ect.) that can even up the equation.
Unpaid internships with quality companies count for a lot if the person cannot get hired, do not think of these as “settling” you can also make good contacts and references at these stops.
You just need to realize that the bloated gravy train of 03-08’ is over. And the inflated earnings of that era, for the most part are in the past.
But I will repeat, pushing the issue with HR and the hiring managers is the wrong way to go. Also contact a good recruiter, the good companies will not charge you and will help you get an idea what the job market in your area is doing.
[quote]MiniMe23 wrote:
I do my best to tailor each application to specific words used in the listings or using those “power” resume words that people say to use. Like you said…very laborious and ridiculous considering it doesn’t pay off. Does anyone know if companies just post listing just to post listings? Or does anyone know that since the job is actually posted…they are in-fact looking for someone to fill the position (and not just someone from an internal source).
I’m not buying that the job market has improved either… and definitely not in the investment/banking industry. Despite that .1% drop from 8.9% to 8.8% in unemployment all the politicians have been touting…[/quote]
Post listings just to post listings?
Yep, seen it happen.
Sometimes to make the current workers feel like there may be relief from teh current workload…
Others to Satisfy H1-B Visa requirements. They have to show no qualified American applied… So “requirements” get really nit picky… Down to dot releases on software and etc.
[quote]Tyrant wrote:
[quote]MiniMe23 wrote:
[quote]Gambit_Lost wrote:
I remember talking to a HR person at a bar who was (maybe?) joking. She said:
“We get literally hundreds of qualified applications for each job we post. So the first thing I do is to stack them on my desk. I’ll grab the first half of the stack and throw them away. Those people are obviously unlucky and you don’t want to hire anyone who is unlucky.”
I knew a guy who claimed he was the dead last person who applied where he worked and he got the job (beating the application deadline by minutes, I guess). He said his boss later admitted that he never read past the first application that he saw, saying something like, “you were qualified, so I interviewed and hired you.”
[/quote]
haha, yea I’m hoping that I’m not that unlucky! However…I do watch a lot of job postings on websites and apply immediately, I hope that same HR person who throws away the top half of the stack isn’t working in the investment industry! Also, I will admit that I didn’t graduate from Harvard/Yale/Cornell but then again my college is accredited…etc.
I do tailor my applications to every job I apply to, and I don’t think that I’m a douche or an ass-hole. Right now at this stage of my life I cannot afford to be anything but nice, humble, and willing to give 111%. [/quote]
Your college is accredited…You know, the only people I’ve ever heard speak of their accreditation, are those schools like devry. Please tell me you didn’t go to devry…
On the dumb HR woman bit, it’s a sad thing but it wouldn’t even begin to surprise me. The best companies are the ones who look through the applicants for the most qualified and best fit candidates. GE and Google are shining examples of these types of companies and it obviously shows in their reputation and profit margins. [/quote]
When you get hundreds of applications, the population is so large that you can’t/shouldn’t go through the stack. Too much time, there’s plenty of good qualified candidates in even a small sample of the pile.
[quote]MiniMe23 wrote:
I have mostly tried to concentrate on investment banking positions, I still check my online accounts at companies and many of the status still say “not reviewed.” Some of which I had applied for last September 2010! I’ve tried to call to figure out what’s going on but have had no luck getting in touch with anyone that can answer me.
[/quote]
Not for nothing, have you been paying attention to what’s been going on in the finance world say for oh I don’t know, the last three years?
I’m currently employed at an investment bank, most jobs are filled through word of mouth. i.e., it’s who you know, not what you know…
Most grads are hired in after having done internships over their summer vacations at firms on the street. Firms also have career days where you can attend and get a sense of what the culture is like and put yourslef up for open positions. This information is readily abailable on any website, you just have to be willing to attend in person.
Despite what many folks think out there, earnings haven’t been that great over the last two quarters for investment banks and incremental headcount is being heavily scrutinized. Don’t get discouraged, but it’s probably not the best place to be looking for work right now, especially right out of college unless you know the right people…
Good luck!
Strong bump.
We store them but don’t do anything with them. The idea is if we advertise for a position then we can look at past applicants and contact them.
The reality is essentially no one does this and they are effectively tossed.
[quote]MattyXL wrote:
Man its rough out there, I am employed but have been trying to find new work…I, you have applied to hundreds of openings over the past year, and not a fucking sniff, these are jobs mind you that in 80% of em I felt I qualified for, yet the only places that contact me are Prince Akeem from Nigeria, some weird NHE personal cert place and even worse AFLAC, PRUDENTIAL to sell life insurance…I didnt even apply to these fuckers, I never did sales and have no experience in insurance.
From what I have heard there is scanning software that picks up on words in a resume to catch the employers attention, so I guess tailor each application to that job,very laborious and ridiculous. But then again the same job you applied for so had 10,000 other applicants maybe more…
This idea that the job market has improved has been lost on me, I dont see any improvement…im thankful to be employed but its not my area of expertise.[/quote]
I might have missed this thread when it started?
This post is funny because I can completely relate and I am going through the same experiences myself.
What I have started doing is adjusting my resume to each job I apply for. Go to the companies website and read through and try to find key words that they use, then insert them into my resume where those words apply.
I have heard of people placing ghost key words in the resume that will trigger hits. I am not going to use the last approach yet.
Another thing I have started doing is getting certified in current job positions, even though my employers are individually owned and operated and doesn’t provide accredited certifications in the field. I am just going through third parties that provide accredited certs in fields related to my current employment responsibilities.
Some of this might be obvious to some on here, but it might help give others some ideas?
Even though this thread is years old, the situation is the same in our tired ass economy.
Job changers need an inside person or a 3rd party recruiter to get their resume into the hiring manager’s hands. The company pays the fees on the first and you do your own homework/footwork on the second suggestion.
Forget LinkedIn and all of the other cyber nonsense sites and look on the company website to make sure there really is an opening with targeted company.
[quote]trece wrote:
Forget LinkedIn and all of the other cyber nonsense sites and look on the company website to make sure there really is an opening with targeted company. [/quote]
I wouldn’t just dismiss online searches. A lot of companies use career builder for example. Usajobs.com is a great place to find government jobs.
Word of mouth/having an in will always be the best way imo, but from what I understand HR departments are moving more and more to online applicants. Personally, I’ve landed a job through careerbuilder, my college’s online job center, and word of mouth. They’re all viable.