You described many of the principles underlying it and referenced JM’s views on diet.
I stand by what I said earlier: focusing on the muscular contraction and such is a more advanced way to train than someone with a year and a half worth of training–much less someone with such a limited background in leg training–should be worried about at this point. The OP should be focused on getting healthy, re-learning to seriously approach leg training, and learning his body to a greater degree.[/quote]
You described many of the principles underlying it and referenced JM’s views on diet.
I stand by what I said earlier: focusing on the muscular contraction and such is a more advanced way to train than someone with a year and a half worth of training–much less someone with such a limited background in leg training–should be worried about at this point. The OP should be focused on getting healthy, re-learning to seriously approach leg training, and learning his body to a greater degree.[/quote]
Focusing on the muscle contraction is the most basic foundational principle of bodybuilding.
You described many of the principles underlying it and referenced JM’s views on diet.
I stand by what I said earlier: focusing on the muscular contraction and such is a more advanced way to train than someone with a year and a half worth of training–much less someone with such a limited background in leg training–should be worried about at this point. The OP should be focused on getting healthy, re-learning to seriously approach leg training, and learning his body to a greater degree.[/quote]
Focusing on the muscle contraction is the most basic foundational principle of bodybuilding.
I cant tell if you are serious or not.[/quote]
I’m not saying that focusing on the muscle contraction isn’t a foundational principle of bodybuilding. I’m saying that people don’t go into the gym and just ‘figure out’ on Day 1 how to focus on the contraction in a way that is beneficial to progress. That’s at least presumably part of why it’s good for people to focus on strength progression initially–because that’s a less complicated way of objectively knowing that you’re challenging your body.
I’m totally open to being wrong on this point. I just wouldn’t personally advise someone who has only been lifting for a year to focus on the muscle contraction because I don’t think most people who’ve only been training for a year really know what that means. Not that they don’t feel the muscle contracting, but just that they couldn’t manipulate their lifting form or training structure to take advantage of it. I think that sort of body awareness and control takes time to develop.
Well thanks for the input guys. I just got cleared to start squatting again by the surgeon. My lower back is still an issue though so Ill have to figure that out first. I realize I posted this in the bodybuilding forum but I want to lift heavy. I love the feeling of moving a heavy ass weight and I love the progression it brings
You described many of the principles underlying it and referenced JM’s views on diet.
I stand by what I said earlier: focusing on the muscular contraction and such is a more advanced way to train than someone with a year and a half worth of training–much less someone with such a limited background in leg training–should be worried about at this point. The OP should be focused on getting healthy, re-learning to seriously approach leg training, and learning his body to a greater degree.[/quote]
Focusing on the muscle contraction is the most basic foundational principle of bodybuilding.
I cant tell if you are serious or not.[/quote]
I’m not saying that focusing on the muscle contraction isn’t a foundational principle of bodybuilding. I’m saying that people don’t go into the gym and just ‘figure out’ on Day 1 how to focus on the contraction in a way that is beneficial to progress. That’s at least presumably part of why it’s good for people to focus on strength progression initially–because that’s a less complicated way of objectively knowing that you’re challenging your body.
I’m totally open to being wrong on this point. I just wouldn’t personally advise someone who has only been lifting for a year to focus on the muscle contraction because I don’t think most people who’ve only been training for a year really know what that means. Not that they don’t feel the muscle contracting, but just that they couldn’t manipulate their lifting form or training structure to take advantage of it. I think that sort of body awareness and control takes time to develop.[/quote]
I disagree. Teaching a noob to get the dumbell from point A to point B as a result of them contracting and flexing a muscle rather than just move weight from point A to point B for a year or two until it feels right seems a bit better in my opinion at least.
[quote]bulkNcut wrote:
Well thanks for the input guys. I just got cleared to start squatting again by the surgeon. My lower back is still an issue though so Ill have to figure that out first. I realize I posted this in the bodybuilding forum but I want to lift heavy. I love the feeling of moving a heavy ass weight and I love the progression it brings [/quote]
and the grinding of the joints and ligaments? i was your age before, and i trained intelligently knowing that i would benefit in the future… now im bigger and stronger than i was back then because i didnt lose any momentum by getting injured… trust me on this one
ive never had any sort of surgery… and because of the way i train, i never will… constant, steady progression
I disagree. Teaching a noob to get the dumbell from point A to point B as a result of them contracting and flexing a muscle rather than just move weight from point A to point B for a year or two until it feels right seems a bit better in my opinion at least. [/quote]
That’s fair enough. From my perspective, teaching a couple friends of mine to lift just convinced me that having someone relatively new to lifting focus on a movement plane (e.g., a proper squat) is a much more effective way of teaching the person the coordination and body control necessary to then take it a step further and say “when you’re doing the exercise, really focus on the muscles contracting and targeting the proper ones.” That, to me at least, is a second step that makes the lift more complicated for someone who hasn’t been doing it for a while.
Another important benefit is that doing a basic lifting program focused on weight progression teaches the newer lifter to test himself. Because eventually that sh** will get heavy.
I’m not saying that the person needs to be going out and squatting 500lbs twice a week. I’m just saying that a base of strength (e.g., for the squat, doing working sets in the 3-400lb range or thereabouts) should be achieved. If a person doesn’t know his body well enough to build a basic strength base, then I just don’t see how adding more complication (“Okay, now when you squat I want you to also focus on what muscles you’re working”) is beneficial.
Regarding the muscle contraction/strength base discussion, I think it’s best just to find lifts for you that allow progress AND naturally hit your desired muscle (without having to necessarily lower the weight and ‘focus’ on the contraction).
Like for me, Squats make my Legs grow, so I Squat. I feel Oly Squats in my Quads even when trying to push the weight from A to B, so I focus on those. For some, that’s not the case.
Flat Bench, never feel my chest contrast unless using very light weight and shit. So i use Decline Bench and DB Incline, both movements that I feel in my chest.
Just progress on the compound movements that work for YOU!
Regarding the muscle contraction/strength base discussion, I think it’s best just to find lifts for you that allow progress AND naturally hit your desired muscle (without having to necessarily lower the weight and ‘focus’ on the contraction).
Like for me, Squats make my Legs grow, so I Squat. I feel Oly Squats in my Quads even when trying to push the weight from A to B, so I focus on those. For some, that’s not the case.
Flat Bench, never feel my chest contrast unless using very light weight and shit. So i use Decline Bench and DB Incline, both movements that I feel in my chest.
Just progress on the compound movements that work for YOU!
[quote]bulkNcut wrote:
Well thanks for the input guys. I just got cleared to start squatting again by the surgeon. My lower back is still an issue though so Ill have to figure that out first. I realize I posted this in the bodybuilding forum but I want to lift heavy. I love the feeling of moving a heavy ass weight and I love the progression it brings [/quote]
That is great news!
Start with a proper routine that restores integrity to your low back before you even think about going heavy. Don’t try to avoid the issue; train it directly. That means very light to start with, proper form, full range of motion. If you have to start with bodyweight then so be it.
Thanks bluecollar, I really appreciate it. My back felt fine for 2 weeks of rest then it started hurting again about 4 days after bending over to tie my shoe… I was pissed beyond belief. Anyways its been gone for 2 days and although there is still slight pain in certain postitions its mostly just really tight. I’ve been doing a bunch of stretching and foam rolling and I’m def gonna take this whole week off from anythign that uses it too. I may call doc to look into seeing if its something worse (disc or something) but I really hope not. If all goes as planned I will do really really light deadlift session next tuesday (like 135 for a few sets). THen the next week work up to about 265, then the week after hop back into my 5/3/1 programming. Idk what to use for my 1rm when I do get back to it though. Same as where I left off? maybe 10lbs less? This is gonna be tough for me.
Also will continue with stretching and foam rolling to get rid of my APT, and add more core work to strengthn my abs and protect my lower back. may start deadlifting/pressing with a belt as well
[quote]bulkNcut wrote:
Thanks bluecollar, I really appreciate it. My back felt fine for 2 weeks of rest then it started hurting again about 4 days after bending over to tie my shoe… I was pissed beyond belief. Anyways its been gone for 2 days and although there is still slight pain in certain postitions its mostly just really tight. I’ve been doing a bunch of stretching and foam rolling and I’m def gonna take this whole week off from anythign that uses it too. I may call doc to look into seeing if its something worse (disc or something) but I really hope not. If all goes as planned I will do really really light deadlift session next tuesday (like 135 for a few sets). THen the next week work up to about 265, then the week after hop back into my 5/3/1 programming. Idk what to use for my 1rm when I do get back to it though. Same as where I left off? maybe 10lbs less? This is gonna be tough for me. [/quote]
did u not read anything that was posted about volume, “feeling the muscle working” etc?
nevermind kid… lift as heavy as you can, preferably with a twisting/jerking motion lol… hope you scheduled another doc appointment soon.
you should see if your doc has a frequent flier program
Walk away you are quite a dick. He is doing something you don’t like, and you hope he gets injured worse because of that? Do you think someone who trains to have a bigger total should get injured?
[quote]bulkNcut wrote:
I would have to agree. It’s been very helpful. I’ve got another question though. Should my goal still be to gain 1lb a week? Or should it be less? Also if its less how do I go about that. I mean 1lb a week is pretty easy to do and account for. when people say 1/4lb a week how the hell do you adjust calories for that? [/quote]
Mathematically speaking, there are 3500 calories/pound, so if you’re eating 500 cals over maintenance currently to gain 1 pound/week, eat only 250 cals over maintenance to gain only 1/2 pound/week.
That being said, the numbers will probably never be exact given too many variables, so best just to stay consistent on a daily basis and make adjustments every so often as necessary. [/quote]
[quote]DSSG wrote:
Walk away you are quite a dick. He is doing something you don’t like, and you hope he gets injured worse because of that? Do you think someone who trains to have a bigger total should get injured? [/quote]
you should read his post… he fucked up his back… did some rehab, then re-agitated it simply by tying his shoe… and now he’s asking what he should go for his one-rep max for DEADLIFTS after only 3 weeks???
mind you, stu injured his shoulder taking his shirt off IIRC, and he’s been rehabing for 20 weeks?
i hope the kid doesnt get injured… but holy shit it just doesnt add up.
powerlifting would be great if they didnt get injured ALL THE TIME. Read how many injuries/surgeries etc that dave tate has had throughout his career, and tell me if that’s the path you want to go down.
if it is, then great… if it isnt, then maybe he should consider taking it a bit easy and doing things that actually BUILD YOUR BACK! (shelby starnes told me that he attributed about 10% IIRC of his back development to deadlifts, the rest to rowing/pulldowns/pullovers/hyperextensions etc…think about that for a sec)
[quote]bulkNcut wrote:
I would have to agree. It’s been very helpful. I’ve got another question though. Should my goal still be to gain 1lb a week? Or should it be less? Also if its less how do I go about that. I mean 1lb a week is pretty easy to do and account for. when people say 1/4lb a week how the hell do you adjust calories for that? [/quote]
Mathematically speaking, there are 3500 calories/pound, so if you’re eating 500 cals over maintenance currently to gain 1 pound/week, eat only 250 cals over maintenance to gain only 1/2 pound/week.
That being said, the numbers will probably never be exact given too many variables, so best just to stay consistent on a daily basis and make adjustments every so often as necessary. [/quote]
Words can’t describe how much I <3 this post[/quote]
[quote]bulkNcut wrote:
Thanks bluecollar, I really appreciate it. My back felt fine for 2 weeks of rest then it started hurting again about 4 days after bending over to tie my shoe… I was pissed beyond belief. Anyways its been gone for 2 days and although there is still slight pain in certain postitions its mostly just really tight. I’ve been doing a bunch of stretching and foam rolling and I’m def gonna take this whole week off from anythign that uses it too. I may call doc to look into seeing if its something worse (disc or something) but I really hope not. If all goes as planned I will do really really light deadlift session next tuesday (like 135 for a few sets). THen the next week work up to about 265, then the week after hop back into my 5/3/1 programming. Idk what to use for my 1rm when I do get back to it though. Same as where I left off? maybe 10lbs less? This is gonna be tough for me. [/quote]
Perhaps you mis-understood my post, or perhaps I mis-understand the injury.
If you have had an injury that required you to see a DR. and/or discontinue/alter your training, you are not going to solve the problem in three weeks…3 months maybe, but not three weeks. When you can deadlift 135 for 4 sets of 10 and do 4 sets of 20 on hyperextensions in the same session you move to 160 and repeat, from there to 185, etc. The objective is make the low-back the strongest link in the chain.