When Hell Freezes Over

[quote]lothario1132 wrote:
I work with each new year’s worth of medical interns and what I am seeing is a massive increase in folks from other countries getting into our medical school. I would say that english is a second language to over half of this year’s crop of promising young doctors.[/quote]

Over here in Northern CA, I’d say about two thirds of doctors were not born here in the US. The ones that were are overwhelmingly Jewish. My wife and I volunteer at Stanford Hospital and Clinics, and none of our doctor or nurse friends are the classic White Christians.

I believe that has to do with some of the reasons I pointed out before: a US High-School grad just doesn’t have the money, the time or the knowledge to venture him/herself into the path to being a doctor; immigrants not only are better prepared, they are much more motivated, and more frequently have parents that were able to save enough money for it.

The language barrier is a HUGE problem. It is extremely complicated when there is a language barrier between doctor and patient. There is no good way to solve it over here in the SF Bay Area, because a) there is no predominant native language and b) there is no amount of training and exams that can help a, say, Asia-born individual (Asians make up 50% of the Bay Area’s population) achieve a (near-)native level of English.

[quote]hspder wrote:
lothario1132 wrote:
I work with each new year’s worth of medical interns and what I am seeing is a massive increase in folks from other countries getting into our medical school. I would say that english is a second language to over half of this year’s crop of promising young doctors.

Over here in Northern CA, I’d say about two thirds of doctors were not born here in the US. The ones that were are overwhelmingly Jewish. My wife and I volunteer at Stanford Hospital and Clinics, and none of our doctor or nurse friends are the classic White Christians.

I believe that has to do with some of the reasons I pointed out before: a US High-School grad just doesn’t have the money, the time or the knowledge to venture him/herself into the path to being a doctor; immigrants not only are better prepared, they are much more motivated, and more frequently have parents that were able to save enough money for it.

The language barrier is a HUGE problem. It is extremely complicated when there is a language barrier between doctor and patient. There is no good way to solve it over here in the SF Bay Area, because a) there is no predominant native language and b) there is no amount of training and exams that can help a, say, Asia-born individual (Asians make up 50% of the Bay Area’s population) achieve a (near-)native level of English.
[/quote]

We attract the best and brightest from around the world.

In this day and age of fast global travel it is no surprise they come here.

[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:
We attract the best and brightest from around the world.

In this day and age of fast global travel it is no surprise they come here.[/quote]

Absolutely. Couldn’t agree more.

And in case I wasn’t clear enough, I am very aware that forcing everybody to speak perfect English wouldn’t completely solve the problem, because most of the PATIENTS don’t speak perfect English… :slight_smile:

I just think we should start coming up with creative ways to address the language problem, rather than just ignoring it. Maybe what the doctors need is basically to be explicitly be taught how to communicate under the lack of a common native tongue. I do feel that most people do not like to admit they do not understand what you’re saying – on both sides (patient and doctor). So if doctors and nurses where trained to address that – e.g., by learning to not be afraid to ask for clarification, and learning techniques to minimize the barrier (from using images / pictograms to asking very clear questions that use a common vocabulary) – I think it would be very useful.

I do realize this is a much bigger problem over here in the Bay Area than anywhere else in the country (where English and Spanish are usually more than enough to cover 99% of the population), however we have two of the best medical schools in the planet, so they have more than enough resources to implement such ideas and maybe target them to doctors that wish to practice in this region.

The Great Divide: Public vs. Private Healthcare.
Wednesday, February 02, 2005

Health spending has been rising as a percentage of the US economy for a generation now. Back in the 60’s it was about 7% or so but it has now soared, according to the Bush administration, to over 15% of the nation’s GDP. According to published figures, raw government spending on healthcare accounts for 45% of all healthcare spending or about 6.75% of GDP.

The public figure for government spending in the US ignores certain factors though, according to a study by Harvard Medical School. Spending for government health programs like Medicare, Medicaid and the Veterans Administration ($548.7 billion in 1999) is included, but two categories that have previously been overlooked in calculating government health costs need to be included too if a true picture is to emerge. Expenditures to buy private insurance for government employees - e.g. members of Congress, firemen and school teachers - at a cost of $65.6 billion in 1999 and tax subsidies for private coverage - which totaled $109.6 billion in 1999 have never been part of official figures. These costs would be either included or saved by a universal healthcare system. The total government spend on healthcare is therefore $954 billion or 59.8% of all US healthcare spending.

Dr. Steffie Woolhandler, a study author and an Associate Professor of Medicine at Harvard, noted:

We pay the world’s highest health care taxes. But much of the money is squandered. The wealthy get tax breaks. And HMOs and drug companies pocket billions in profits at the taxpayers’ expense. But politicians claim we can’t afford universal coverage. Every other developed nation has national health insurance. We already pay for it, but we don’t get it.

Let’s look at some fairly rough figures. The US spends over $309 billion each year on paperwork in insurance companies, hospitals and doctors’ office - over half could be saved through national health insurance if paperwork costs followed the UK example and dropped to around 11% of all healthcare costs instead of 25%. It spends $150 billion on medications, at prices 50% higher than Canadians pay for the same drugs. By slashing bureaucracy and drug prices the US could save enough to cover all of the uninsured and improve coverage for the rest of the populace.

Estimated total US health spending is around $5,500 per capita and it has doubled in the last 20 years. That equates to a total spend of about $1,600 billion of which $400 billion is currently eaten up by administration costs. Cutting administration by moving to one standard universal system would save as much as $225 billion… Cutting drug costs by 50% through one block negotiated price as the Canadian system does would save another $75 billion. These savings wouldn’t just disappear as a means-based, equitable tax could then be levied. Individuals and employers would pay into the plan based on what they can afford, not what insurance companies want to charge. This tax would largely replace premiums, deductibles, co-pays and out-of-pocket expenses. For most taxpayers and businesses, this would lead to sizeable savings.

Add these savings to what the government is already paying and we have an available budget of almost $1.2 trillion or over 11% of the nation’s GDP. All without raising taxes.

As an aside, it should be noted that recent Democrat plans for a universal health system had a similiar budget, but as the formulators had not taken into account all the savings possible, they had to include a provision for a tax levy which allowed easy attacks on these plans. The other flaw in Democrat plans was to include draconian provisions to exclude private HMO’s from providing coverage for areas their universal system covered. This was simply ludicrous and smacked of a “closed-shop” ethos their fellow leftwingers in Europe gave up over a decade ago. If any new universal healthcare provision was set up properly free market competition would be a welcome playing field, it would leave the insurers able to provide luxury “top-up” covers for elective surgeries or exclusive surroundings, something the insurers would probably find very satisfactory indeed as profit margins would be far higher.

Of course, many States have already begun to think this way. Maryland, Massachusets, Minnesota, New Mexico, Wisconsin, Delaware, California,Hawaii and of course Maine are just some of the States that have either begun the process or are expecting to begin shortly. 40 States in total either have legislation in the works or studies in progress for establishing a single-payer healthcare system. In every case, savings to the State, to businesses and to individual families are expected.

Certainly, manufacturing businesses could do with the break. Employers saw their healthcare costs rise 12% in 2004 and 16% in 2003. . Such dramatic increases have damaged manufacturing in America, prompted labor strikes, and encouraged corporations to ship jobs overseas.

In one of the more exciting if little-noticed developments for progressives, a coalition is beginning to emerge that includes not just CEOs but also America’s doctors and unionized workers. Executives from the Big Three automakers, upset over insanely high healthcare costs, recently sent the Canadian government a letter urging Canada to keep its single-payer system so GM, DaimlerChrysler and Ford could hold operating expenses down.
And why not? After all, in 2003, GM spent $4.5 billion on health care for its US- based employees and retirees, at a cost of $1,200 per car, according to a GM spokesman. “If we cannot get our arms around this [healthcare] issue as a nation, our manufacturing base and many of our other businesses are in danger,” warned Ford’s Vice Chairman Allan Gilmour. Katerina vanden Hueval, The Nation

So why doesn’t the US have a universal, single-payer public system of healthcare? Well, it would seem that misunderstanding of the costs involved, coupled with the retelling of myths over the differences in quality between public and private systems, have conspired to keep universal healthcare a “not now” subject at the national level. Pressure from physicians, businesses, and individual State’s actions could well be about to change that formula. One can only hope that in this case, bi-partisan politics can be the order of the day. If kindergarten name-calling is frowned upon when it comes to supporting the troops, how much more should it be decried when it comes to supporting every living soul in the nation?

This part is comforting:

As an aside, it should be noted that recent Democrat plans for a universal health system had a similiar budget, but as the formulators had not taken into account all the savings possible, they had to include a provision for a tax levy which allowed easy attacks on these plans. The other flaw in Democrat plans was to include draconian provisions to exclude private HMO’s from providing coverage for areas their universal system covered. This was simply ludicrous and smacked of a “closed-shop” ethos their fellow leftwingers in Europe gave up over a decade ago. If any new universal healthcare provision was set up properly free market competition would be a welcome playing field, it would leave the insurers able to provide luxury “top-up” covers for elective surgeries or exclusive surroundings, something the insurers would probably find very satisfactory indeed as profit margins would be far higher.

BTW, your model seems very eager to embrace the savings that would arise from paperwork reduction on this type of plan – how about accounting for the productivity and savings that a flat tax would entail?

[quote]BostonBarrister wrote:
BTW, your model seems very eager to embrace the savings that would arise from paperwork reduction on this type of plan – how about accounting for the productivity and savings that a flat tax would entail?[/quote]

That is a very good point, actually. Thank you for bringing that up.

The estimates I’ve seen show it would not be enough.

You might argue that those estimates might be pessimistic, but since it hasn’t been tried anywhere with an economy remotely the size and complexity of ours it’s hard to make better ones.

The thing is that I’ve stated previously that I’m all for dramatically simplifying the tax code, and we can easily achieve those paperwork savings with a progressive tax. That would provide us with some real numbers, and if it saves us enough, and Government income rises enough, I’d be all for a tax reduction, even for the rich.

But we have to take it one thing at a time: first, paperwork reductions. Look at the savings. Then reassess.

The thing with this universal healthcare plan is that it has already been tried and proven. There’s no risk or uncertainty here. The numbers aren’t being pulled out of thin air, they are real numbers from real situations.

I think you’re probably right w/r/t taxes, just given the complexity and all the things that are currently written in to the tax code. Aside from that, I don’t think it’s politically feasible to do much other than certain reforms based on our current code, especially with things like the mortgage deduction.

I like the plan your article details far more than some of the other plans, such as Canada’s and Britain’s, which have that “closed shop” feature your article criticizes. To the extent we do decide that health care is a fundamental right, it would make sense – then there will just be the arguments on how much to spend and how far the right should go (I fear the right to elective surgeries…).

[quote]BostonBarrister wrote:
I think you’re probably right w/r/t taxes, just given the complexity and all the things that are currently written in to the tax code. Aside from that, I don’t think it’s politically feasible to do much other than certain reforms based on our current code, especially with things like the mortgage deduction.[/quote]

We dug ourselves into a hole with the mortgage deduction thing, and it will be hard to get out.

It is possible to phase in a reform that would eliminate it, but it would have to be very carefully planned. Namely, it would have to be attached to a tax rate reduction (to prevent a situation where people would no longer be able to afford to pay their mortgage) AND to a rent-control bill (because, for obvious reasons, rent prices would skyrocket if suddenly buying became less attractive financially).

I believe that the reason the tax code is so big and complex is that nobody has ever wanted to spend the time and effort to make it simple. Or, to quote one of the greats:

I made this letter longer than usual because I lack the time to make it short. --Blaise Pascal

[quote]BostonBarrister wrote:
I like the plan your article details far more than some of the other plans, such as Canada’s and Britain’s, which have that “closed shop” feature your article criticizes.[/quote]

Good! :slight_smile:

[quote]BostonBarrister wrote:
To the extent we do decide that health care is a fundamental right, it would make sense – then there will just be the arguments on how much to spend and how far the right should go (I fear the right to elective surgeries…).[/quote]

I don’t think anyone in their right mind would support the right to elective surgeries. There are a lot of crazy people in DC, but that’s just too far off the deep end even for them.

Boston,

Look beyond the geography to the principle…

[quote]BostonBarrister wrote:
Yes vroom, I’m sure this will have a large impact on the next MA state election…

vroom wrote:
Boston,

Look beyond the geography to the principle…[/quote]

Yes, but you got the principle wrong too, and it was making my head hurt.

This is what I wrote originally:

[quote]BostonBarrister wrote:

Anyway though, my points were these: 1) I don’t know how “bipartisan” legislation like this is when one side knows it can’t do anything to stop it – without knowing more (like specific votes). That may very well lead to their acting like politicians and just tacking their names on, figuring it didn’t matter.

Or maybe it got labeled “bipartisan” because a few of the minority Republican legislators supported it?[/quote]

And this is what you wrote:

[quote]vroom wrote:
Hey, don’t even think of going through voting records during the next election (e.g. Kerry during the last election) if you aren’t going to hold republicans to their voting records as well.

The damned thing was either bipartisan or it was not.[/quote]

It was a bi-partisan bill - but I am interested to know exactly how many Republicans there are in the legislature, in addition to the vote total. The size of the Republican minority in MA is miniscule, so I was interested in why they voted the way they did, given their incentives (i.e. they had no way to stop it, even if all the Republicans voted against it and it was vetoed, provided the Dems wanted to pass it).

And if you recall, in the last election Kerry’s voting record was examined to see why he voted the way he did on bills - and looking to what he said at the time of the vote, not when he was running for President and trying to paint his votes the opposite of the way he was when he was only concerned with appealing to this same liberal Massachusetts electorate, rather than to the country as a whole – even those pesky red states.

[quote]BostonBarrister wrote:
And if you recall, in the last election Kerry’s voting record was examined to see why he voted the way he did on bills - and looking to what he said at the time of the vote, not when he was running for President and trying to paint his votes the opposite of the way he was when he was only concerned with appealing to this same liberal Massachusetts electorate, rather than to the country as a whole – even those pesky red states. [/quote]

… but isn’t exactly that what Republicans are doing in MA – voting one way when they are outnumbered in the MA environment, and another when they need to cater to their base?

Not unless they put forth a reason for voting now, and then try to change it later when appealing to a broader group. That’s why I said I wanted to look at the voting records now – to see if they stated a reason for their vote.

Remember, these are state legislators in the MA environment. I don’t think most of them are going to leave the MA environment, but keep track and we’ll see if they change their stories.

Of course, given also that this is MA, they may just be liberal Republicans…

ADDENDUM FOR CLARIFICATION: Republicans will not be anything other than a largely outnumbered minority in MA in the near (or probably distant) future, and this group of MA Republican legislators is acting on its own – if the national party goes and says something different to the base nationally, that’s apples and oranges. Unless one thinks the national party was telling the state legislators to vote for this, which I find dubious, to put it mildly.