Another doc that gives a man an AI when the guy reports feeling great… Because of a number…and then ruins the protocol. See this all the time.
1 Like
1 Like
What was the range on the 110 E2?
Range?
“Normal” range on your e2 results
My last lab a couple months ago had it at 26. I dont feel bad at that level, but dont have the libido or energy I had at higher ranges. I think initially my Dr said he didnt want me over 45. Thats when he put me on an AI.
That isn’t what we’re asking. The lab report should give your results then beside of it say what they think a normal range is. What is the range they say is normal?
7.6 - 42.6
E2 range is for men not on TRT. It is pretty much useless for our purposes.
1 Like
Im slowly figuring that out.
1 Like
I don’t think that 98% of men will end up at a dose of 150 or higher.
Just recently there was a survey done on this forum and about 45% of men stated that their dose is <150 mg per week with 20 to 25% saying that their dose is <100 mg per week.
On excelmale there is a similar thread about weekly T dose on TRT. Of about 37 men, 18 report to use a weekly dose of 100 or below.
I think that T nation has a certain bias towards lifter and younger men, while excelmale might be more representative of the average men on TRT.
Anyhow starting with 150 per week will trigger side effects in this relatively high proportion of men ending up at a dose of below 100 such as high HCT within weeks, anxiety attacks, high blood pressure etc. And it won’t allow you to find the lowest effective dose.
You wanna find a max starting dose at which >95% of men get into the physiological range of T without experiencing nasty side effects.
For young and healthy men 150 might be fine, but that’s not your typical TRT patient out there.
2 Likes
What is the general thinking/consensus for people such as myself that does have low/mid levels of FT despite having high TT that is around 1100 , a low SHBG that is below the range and slightly above the range E2? Some will say “Just up the dosage” but that’s smth i can’t do due to existing sleep problems on TRT. I just want to know the scientific reason behind this… So far the only answer i’ve got is “Everybody is different”. Yes everybody is different , but what exactly is the difference on this case?
Protocol was 75mgx2 for a total of 150mg.
I think this is totally wrong and you cannot make any such claim about any numbers
I started 150mg week, Ive added hcg and I dont have any of these side effects. A lot of people I know are on 200-210
And as dr Neil Rouzier says we are treating symptoms not numbers. Numbers are irrelevant. At what dose the man feels good thats the dose
Of course if all symptoms are gone at 200mg there is no point to go to 300 in my mind…
1 Like
Either the freeT assay result is incorrect or you have a genetically determined ‚sticky‘ SHBG.
I think it’s rather the first option as also E2 is high.
Calculate your freeT using the Vermeulen equation
http://www.issam.ch/freetesto.htm
How are you doing with regards to your heart symptoms? Everything ok?
Exactly… up to a certain point. If you don’t have PAIS but need like 1000mg to feel good (weekly) and have a TT off 7000ng/dl… something else is wrong and that isn’t sustainable
As with any other hormone meds like thyroid hormones (t3 and t4) you start low and go up. You titrate up not down. How do you find the lowest effective dose when you start at 150 or 200?
I think more of a reason with testosterone to start low.
The same is done with meds like blood pressure , statins, etc.
Exactly, that’s why you want to start at a dose which brings most men at least into the mid physiological range (500 to 700 ng/dL using let’s say 80 mg per week).
If this doesn’t not bring you into the mid physiological range (high metabolizer) or if being mid range doesn’t resolve your symptoms (because of high SHBG or of other expectations) then go up.
1 Like
Also, using the sites here, in my opinion, doesn’t say much (no offense). I believe most guys aren’t getting enough T because their doctors are afraid of numbers.
In my circles, with guys using the type of doctors that I deal with, the vast majority of them are taking 150mg a week and higher.
Again, I’m only reporting what I’m seeing and have nothing to gain by stating otherwise.
1 Like
For the love of pick your deity. Relative. The word you are looking for is relative. You use this phrase a lot, every other post, so you might as well make sense when you write it.
2 Likes
When i do that , it’s 36 ng/dL = 3.28 % FT. The calculator should be right unless i have genetically determined sticky SHBG?
Thank you man. I found a new cardiologist and i’ll be seeing him next week. For now i feel slightly better when working out after lowering my dose.