People should be allowed to determine their own fate. If it’s your own life, and you’re not leaving any dependents without support, then I don’t believe that suicide is a selfish act. You can’t expect everyone around you to base all of their decisions on what makes you happy.
[quote]CopingMechanism wrote:
[quote]koleah wrote:
[quote]Blaze_108 wrote:
.[/quote]
I’ve had this EXACT thought. Love it. Fuck people that want to kill themselves. If they channel it right, they can attempt (and probably achieve) anything, because their other option inherently has a 100% death rate.[/quote]
I had a close friend who took his life many years ago. A first Gulf War veteran. A man whom I had know since childhood. He was suffering with PTSD which included recurring nightmares to the point where he couldnt sleep for more than two hour spurts at a time; and numerous other health complications, including being in almost chronic pain from back injuries sustained from a helicopter crash. He had also seen the breakdown of his marriage, lost his job and had been forced onto living on disability. His quality of life was zero. I knew he was severy depressed, perhpas even more so than usual, during the last and final time we spoke when we met up for beers, and as I sat there sympathetically inquiring about medications, and wether or not they were working, and as he described then his suffering in more and more succinct detail, I suddenly felt a wave of upset come over me at the realisation that I was utterly powerless to help my friend.
Bill hung himslef one early October day in 1994. I believe it was a Tuesday. About three weeks after we last met.
His apartment’s maintanence manager discovered his body some two weeks later when some of the other residents complained about a stench in the hallway…
It really is a damn shame that you, and that other teenager (I assume you are of similar age and maturity), were not there to give that him pep talk. I’m sure that you, with your enduring and wordly insights, could have convinced him to man up and ‘channel it right’. It’s also a shame you also couldn’t of given your opinion to his family, or some of the members from his old unit. I’m sure the choice words of your generalisation would have gone down well with them.
Understand, suicide, like most other facets of human behaviour, is staggering complex. Perhaps, it would seem, too complex for your average American.
With this in mind, simplisitc and infantile chastisisms like - “It’s a selfish act”, “It’s the cowards way out”, “How could they do that to their family”, “It it never an option” - demonstrate not only a grand failure in logic and perspective, but also a thouroughly self-serving, and therefore illegitimate deduction.
If any of you who so readily demonize suicidality would actually have the perspectivity to go beyond your socially conditioned prejudices and do some reading into the biology, psychology and sociology of the subject, you might find yourself with a slightly more encompassing and empathetic viewpoint.
Also understand, and this is the most salient point I wish to get across, suicide is rarely chosen, nor often do the suicide wish to really die. It primarily a result of when aggreagated pains exceed available coping resources. The suicidal want to negate that pain, and when coping resources on offer in their social sphere fail to deliever, then cessation of mortality and consciousness, (and therefore suffering) becomes a viable option.
Sometimes it is indeed a failure of rationalism and perspective on their part, to see the real, viable alternatives, and a mistaken view of permanace to their current circumstances. These are the more tragic cases where adequate counsel and a realistic inventory of problems could have led to mitigation of the feelings of powerlessness that permeate suicidal thinking. Other times it is the end of result of cold, relaisation that life is indeed not worth living, becasue there will only be more misery and pain, and that misery and pain will outstrip the capaacity to feel or recieve any joy.
It is our great American cultural myth, that one has and should be able to draw upon limitless amounts of stoicism, and that one always has the personal volition to change one’s circumstances for the better, if only they are motivated enough. Anyone who has experienced the more sinister side of life or visited some darker corners of the globe knows that life is far more random and cruel that we would ever like to admit. Some people truly get dealt a shitty deck even in a materially opulant sociey such as ours; and whilst certainly due to genetics, upbrining and social resources, some are better at dealing with the arrows that our inevitabley slung at us in life, none of us are invincible. There is a breaking point for all of us, some reach it earlier than others. That’s why the “his/her problems werent that bad” (the ones that were of been apparent to you, the onlooler, at least) becomes redundant. Everyone has a breaking under accrued weight, and what broke the camels back was just that - the final blow. That breakup, job loss or something as innocuous as a broken fan belt was just part of a long line of accrued and (more than likely) silent miseries, so for blaming a suicide on a persons lack of will in respoinse to an apparent circumstnace, is incredibly short-sighted.
I miss Bill.
Before things got bad for him - before Saddam invaded Kuwait, before that chopper suffered a rudder failure and crashed, before his wife couldnt deal with him waking up screaming in the middle of the night, before it hurt Bill too much climb a step-ladder to repair a light fitting - he was warm, optimistic a pleasure to be around. The type of friend you could count on at a moments notice to help you out. I would very much like to him again. I’d like to drink some Sam Adams on my back porch with him, or go lift as we we did in our first forays into the weightroom in high school, or just cruise around in my car like we did as teenagers checking out the girls.
I also know that my friend was suffering physically and mentally in such a way that I feel no human should have to go through. He had endured enough bad luck and misfortune as far as any realisitc person would agree with.
It was dissapointment after dissapointment as one medication would improve one symptom for his complications but give him two extra side effects. The guy couldn’t get a fucking break. Am I upset that my freind committed suicde? Yes, to this day. Did I, along with his family members, feel such terrible greif, anger and guilt when he passed? Yes, also to this day. I am in the back of my mind, also relieved that he is no longer suffering, that he no longer has to go through the agony of another day?, that is also an unequivocal yes too.[/quote]
I have been a member of T-Nation since 2004, as mostly a lurker, and occasionally as a poster. The above post is by far the best post I have ever read on this website. Thank you for sharing.
I’m going to trust that I don’t know everything and that some people have a much harder life than I do and that things for them have gotten so bad that they consider death an option.
Of course if I could talk to these people I would try to talk them out of it, but first I must understand that these people are coming from a different place than me.
Im not condoning suicide or anything… but imo we dont really have the ability to empathize with clinically depressed people… My knowledge on the subject is limited but I am sure in many depression cases there are physiological issues such as chemical imbalances (incorrect dopamine or serotonin levels) which cause an unavoidable and consuming sense of hopelessness and pointlessness. Such a person wouldn’t give a fuck about “going on an adventure” or any of that stuff on Blazes pic… And its not some flawed thought process that makes them feel the way they do either…
[quote]CopingMechanism wrote:
I had a close friend who took his life many years ago. A first Gulf War veteran. A man whom I had know since childhood. He was suffering with PTSD which included recurring nightmares to the point where he couldnt sleep for more than two hour spurts at a time; and numerous other health complications, including being in almost chronic pain from back injuries sustained from a helicopter crash. He had also seen the breakdown of his marriage, lost his job and had been forced onto living on disability. His quality of life was zero. I knew he was severy depressed, perhpas even more so than usual, during the last and final time we spoke when we met up for beers, and as I sat there sympathetically inquiring about medications, and wether or not they were working, and as he described then his suffering in more and more succinct detail, I suddenly felt a wave of upset come over me at the realisation that I was utterly powerless to help my friend.
Bill hung himslef one early October day in 1994. I believe it was a Tuesday. About three weeks after we last met.
His apartment’s maintanence manager discovered his body some two weeks later when some of the other residents complained about a stench in the hallway…
It really is a damn shame that you, and that other teenager (I assume you are of similar age and maturity), were not there to give that him pep talk. I’m sure that you, with your enduring and wordly insights, could have convinced him to man up and ‘channel it right’. It’s also a shame you also couldn’t of given your opinion to his family, or some of the members from his old unit. I’m sure the choice words of your generalisation would have gone down well with them.
Understand, suicide, like most other facets of human behaviour, is staggering complex. Perhaps, it would seem, too complex for your average American.
With this in mind, simplisitc and infantile chastisisms like - “It’s a selfish act”, “It’s the cowards way out”, “How could they do that to their family”, “It it never an option” - demonstrate not only a grand failure in logic and perspective, but also a thouroughly self-serving, and therefore illegitimate deduction.
If any of you who so readily demonize suicidality would actually have the perspectivity to go beyond your socially conditioned prejudices and do some reading into the biology, psychology and sociology of the subject, you might find yourself with a slightly more encompassing and empathetic viewpoint.
Also understand, and this is the most salient point I wish to get across, suicide is rarely chosen, nor often do the suicide wish to really die. It primarily a result of when aggreagated pains exceed available coping resources. The suicidal want to negate that pain, and when coping resources on offer in their social sphere fail to deliever, then cessation of mortality and consciousness, (and therefore suffering) becomes a viable option.
Sometimes it is indeed a failure of rationalism and perspective on their part, to see the real, viable alternatives, and a mistaken view of permanace to their current circumstances. These are the more tragic cases where adequate counsel and a realistic inventory of problems could have led to mitigation of the feelings of powerlessness that permeate suicidal thinking. Other times it is the end of result of cold, relaisation that life is indeed not worth living, becasue there will only be more misery and pain, and that misery and pain will outstrip the capaacity to feel or recieve any joy.
It is our great American cultural myth, that one has and should be able to draw upon limitless amounts of stoicism, and that one always has the personal volition to change one’s circumstances for the better, if only they are motivated enough. Anyone who has experienced the more sinister side of life or visited some darker corners of the globe knows that life is far more random and cruel that we would ever like to admit. Some people truly get dealt a shitty deck even in a materially opulant sociey such as ours; and whilst certainly due to genetics, upbrining and social resources, some are better at dealing with the arrows that our inevitabley slung at us in life, none of us are invincible. There is a breaking point for all of us, some reach it earlier than others. That’s why the “his/her problems werent that bad” (the ones that were of been apparent to you, the onlooler, at least) becomes redundant. Everyone has a breaking under accrued weight, and what broke the camels back was just that - the final blow. That breakup, job loss or something as innocuous as a broken fan belt was just part of a long line of accrued and (more than likely) silent miseries, so for blaming a suicide on a persons lack of will in respoinse to an apparent circumstnace, is incredibly short-sighted.
I miss Bill.
Before things got bad for him - before Saddam invaded Kuwait, before that chopper suffered a rudder failure and crashed, before his wife couldnt deal with him waking up screaming in the middle of the night, before it hurt Bill too much climb a step-ladder to repair a light fitting - he was warm, optimistic a pleasure to be around. The type of friend you could count on at a moments notice to help you out. I would very much like to him again. I’d like to drink some Sam Adams on my back porch with him, or go lift as we we did in our first forays into the weightroom in high school, or just cruise around in my car like we did as teenagers checking out the girls.
I also know that my friend was suffering physically and mentally in such a way that I feel no human should have to go through. He had endured enough bad luck and misfortune as far as any realisitc person would agree with.
It was dissapointment after dissapointment as one medication would improve one symptom for his complications but give him two extra side effects. The guy couldn’t get a fucking break. Am I upset that my freind committed suicde? Yes, to this day. Did I, along with his family members, feel such terrible greif, anger and guilt when he passed? Yes, also to this day. I am in the back of my mind, also relieved that he is no longer suffering, that he no longer has to go through the agony of another day?, that is also an unequivocal yes too.[/quote]
Wow… this brought tears to my eyes.
Sorry for your loss CM.
Excellent post.
[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:
Isn’t it selfish to demand that someone else continue living so you wont feel bad?[/quote]
Your parents give you life, so you take it away because you can’t deal with your problems. Make them and the people closest to you live the remainder of their lives with the burden of not truly understanding why you did what you did.
I can see what you are saying, and I never said it wasn’t selfish to expect them to carry on. One option let’s you at least try and solve the issue(s) while the other solves one issue but creates so many more that can never be resolved.
I’m not going to disagree with the complexities behind it though.
[quote]DeterminedNate wrote:
[quote]CopingMechanism wrote:
[quote]koleah wrote:
[quote]Blaze_108 wrote:
.[/quote]
I’ve had this EXACT thought. Love it. Fuck people that want to kill themselves. If they channel it right, they can attempt (and probably achieve) anything, because their other option inherently has a 100% death rate.[/quote]
I had a close friend who took his life many years ago. A first Gulf War veteran. A man whom I had know since childhood. He was suffering with PTSD which included recurring nightmares to the point where he couldnt sleep for more than two hour spurts at a time; and numerous other health complications, including being in almost chronic pain from back injuries sustained from a helicopter crash. He had also seen the breakdown of his marriage, lost his job and had been forced onto living on disability. His quality of life was zero. I knew he was severy depressed, perhpas even more so than usual, during the last and final time we spoke when we met up for beers, and as I sat there sympathetically inquiring about medications, and wether or not they were working, and as he described then his suffering in more and more succinct detail, I suddenly felt a wave of upset come over me at the realisation that I was utterly powerless to help my friend.
Bill hung himslef one early October day in 1994. I believe it was a Tuesday. About three weeks after we last met.
His apartment’s maintanence manager discovered his body some two weeks later when some of the other residents complained about a stench in the hallway…
It really is a damn shame that you, and that other teenager (I assume you are of similar age and maturity), were not there to give that him pep talk. I’m sure that you, with your enduring and wordly insights, could have convinced him to man up and ‘channel it right’. It’s also a shame you also couldn’t of given your opinion to his family, or some of the members from his old unit. I’m sure the choice words of your generalisation would have gone down well with them.
Understand, suicide, like most other facets of human behaviour, is staggering complex. Perhaps, it would seem, too complex for your average American.
With this in mind, simplisitc and infantile chastisisms like - “It’s a selfish act”, “It’s the cowards way out”, “How could they do that to their family”, “It it never an option” - demonstrate not only a grand failure in logic and perspective, but also a thouroughly self-serving, and therefore illegitimate deduction.
If any of you who so readily demonize suicidality would actually have the perspectivity to go beyond your socially conditioned prejudices and do some reading into the biology, psychology and sociology of the subject, you might find yourself with a slightly more encompassing and empathetic viewpoint.
Also understand, and this is the most salient point I wish to get across, suicide is rarely chosen, nor often do the suicide wish to really die. It primarily a result of when aggreagated pains exceed available coping resources. The suicidal want to negate that pain, and when coping resources on offer in their social sphere fail to deliever, then cessation of mortality and consciousness, (and therefore suffering) becomes a viable option.
Sometimes it is indeed a failure of rationalism and perspective on their part, to see the real, viable alternatives, and a mistaken view of permanace to their current circumstances. These are the more tragic cases where adequate counsel and a realistic inventory of problems could have led to mitigation of the feelings of powerlessness that permeate suicidal thinking. Other times it is the end of result of cold, relaisation that life is indeed not worth living, becasue there will only be more misery and pain, and that misery and pain will outstrip the capaacity to feel or recieve any joy.
It is our great American cultural myth, that one has and should be able to draw upon limitless amounts of stoicism, and that one always has the personal volition to change one’s circumstances for the better, if only they are motivated enough. Anyone who has experienced the more sinister side of life or visited some darker corners of the globe knows that life is far more random and cruel that we would ever like to admit. Some people truly get dealt a shitty deck even in a materially opulant sociey such as ours; and whilst certainly due to genetics, upbrining and social resources, some are better at dealing with the arrows that our inevitabley slung at us in life, none of us are invincible. There is a breaking point for all of us, some reach it earlier than others. That’s why the “his/her problems werent that bad” (the ones that were of been apparent to you, the onlooler, at least) becomes redundant. Everyone has a breaking under accrued weight, and what broke the camels back was just that - the final blow. That breakup, job loss or something as innocuous as a broken fan belt was just part of a long line of accrued and (more than likely) silent miseries, so for blaming a suicide on a persons lack of will in respoinse to an apparent circumstnace, is incredibly short-sighted.
I miss Bill.
Before things got bad for him - before Saddam invaded Kuwait, before that chopper suffered a rudder failure and crashed, before his wife couldnt deal with him waking up screaming in the middle of the night, before it hurt Bill too much climb a step-ladder to repair a light fitting - he was warm, optimistic a pleasure to be around. The type of friend you could count on at a moments notice to help you out. I would very much like to him again. I’d like to drink some Sam Adams on my back porch with him, or go lift as we we did in our first forays into the weightroom in high school, or just cruise around in my car like we did as teenagers checking out the girls.
I also know that my friend was suffering physically and mentally in such a way that I feel no human should have to go through. He had endured enough bad luck and misfortune as far as any realisitc person would agree with.
It was dissapointment after dissapointment as one medication would improve one symptom for his complications but give him two extra side effects. The guy couldn’t get a fucking break. Am I upset that my freind committed suicde? Yes, to this day. Did I, along with his family members, feel such terrible greif, anger and guilt when he passed? Yes, also to this day. I am in the back of my mind, also relieved that he is no longer suffering, that he no longer has to go through the agony of another day?, that is also an unequivocal yes too.[/quote]
I have been a member of T-Nation since 2004, as mostly a lurker, and occasionally as a poster. The above post is by far the best post I have ever read on this website. Thank you for sharing.
[/quote]
X 2
I’ll echo DN’s sentiment that that was, the most unbelievably intelligent, heart felt post I have ever read.
The machismo exhibited by some here is pathetic and highlights a clear lack of perspective for things wayyy beyond their mental/emotional capacity.
I know f-all’ but I do know that if you have not ‘experienced’ something your opinion is just an uneducated guess’ and aint worth shite! Like the parenting thread a while back, bloody hilarious!
I lost my best friend in 2009 - http://tnation.T-Nation.com/free_online_forum/music_movies_girls_life/never_have_regrets?id=3453261&pageNo=0
Miss the fucker like crazy, I still don’t think I’m used to him not being around anymore.
I think it’s beyond the everyday person’s understanding when it comes to the thought process of someone who actually goes through with it - and I guess there are different type of depression because some people can have seemingly great lives (such as my friend Kai) but something can go wrong in the head.
My friend was a big drinker and enjoyed the occasional drug binge, but I’m willing to bet no one saw he was depressed. Even though we chatted daily for hours via type, I had no idea that anything was wrong when he called me that morning before he hung himself.
The thing that bugs me most is that I’ll never know why, and what I could have done to help him. It fucking sucks.
Also, if you know someone that is depressed, you better make sure you do all you can to help if you at all give a fuck about them.
After a fair amount of research into it, people with clinical depression due to chemical imbalances won’t get better with medication most of the time - because that shit only treats symptoms rather than the cause. In fact, it probably makes them worse off a lot of the time.
MP, a member on here, suggested this book to me once upon a time - I HIGHLY recommend anyone looking to help someone with depression check it out, you may just save their lives.
A friend of mine checked out last night, broke up with her boyfriend and had to walk past the train tracks on the way home. Beautiful girl, smart, popular, freshman in college.
Another Odâ??d in December a few nights before leaving for rehab. Full scholar ship to Rutgers, one of the most well liked people in my school. Musically talented on another level.
I know itâ??s a cliché but they really where to the two nicest people I have ever met.
Suicide is contagious
Proximity to a means (train tracks through town) and a culture of self-destruction (several suicides at the same HS yearly) gives the idea validation. The papers shout out headlines â??Third suicide on the tracks at 4th and 5th street this year, painless, everyone is doing itâ?? and you would never consider it. But for some kid who is depressed and happens to be walking by at the same time as the train? That thought pops into your head and one split second decision later itâ??s over.
Or maybe someone is just bored and out of their skull going through withdrawal so they decide just one last hit.
The point is that if you think a potential suicide needs to just buck up and do something then you need to think long and hard about your position. If you already have thought about it and reached the same conclusion, then fuck you, fuck you from the bottom of my heart.
[quote]DarkNinjaa wrote:
[quote]CopingMechanism wrote:
I had a close friend who took his life many years ago. A first Gulf War veteran. A man whom I had know since childhood. He was suffering with PTSD which included recurring nightmares to the point where he couldnt sleep for more than two hour spurts at a time; and numerous other health complications, including being in almost chronic pain from back injuries sustained from a helicopter crash. He had also seen the breakdown of his marriage, lost his job and had been forced onto living on disability. His quality of life was zero. I knew he was severy depressed, perhpas even more so than usual, during the last and final time we spoke when we met up for beers, and as I sat there sympathetically inquiring about medications, and wether or not they were working, and as he described then his suffering in more and more succinct detail, I suddenly felt a wave of upset come over me at the realisation that I was utterly powerless to help my friend.
Bill hung himslef one early October day in 1994. I believe it was a Tuesday. About three weeks after we last met.
His apartment’s maintanence manager discovered his body some two weeks later when some of the other residents complained about a stench in the hallway…
It really is a damn shame that you, and that other teenager (I assume you are of similar age and maturity), were not there to give that him pep talk. I’m sure that you, with your enduring and wordly insights, could have convinced him to man up and ‘channel it right’. It’s also a shame you also couldn’t of given your opinion to his family, or some of the members from his old unit. I’m sure the choice words of your generalisation would have gone down well with them.
Understand, suicide, like most other facets of human behaviour, is staggering complex. Perhaps, it would seem, too complex for your average American.
With this in mind, simplisitc and infantile chastisisms like - “It’s a selfish act”, “It’s the cowards way out”, “How could they do that to their family”, “It it never an option” - demonstrate not only a grand failure in logic and perspective, but also a thouroughly self-serving, and therefore illegitimate deduction.
If any of you who so readily demonize suicidality would actually have the perspectivity to go beyond your socially conditioned prejudices and do some reading into the biology, psychology and sociology of the subject, you might find yourself with a slightly more encompassing and empathetic viewpoint.
Also understand, and this is the most salient point I wish to get across, suicide is rarely chosen, nor often do the suicide wish to really die. It primarily a result of when aggreagated pains exceed available coping resources. The suicidal want to negate that pain, and when coping resources on offer in their social sphere fail to deliever, then cessation of mortality and consciousness, (and therefore suffering) becomes a viable option.
Sometimes it is indeed a failure of rationalism and perspective on their part, to see the real, viable alternatives, and a mistaken view of permanace to their current circumstances. These are the more tragic cases where adequate counsel and a realistic inventory of problems could have led to mitigation of the feelings of powerlessness that permeate suicidal thinking. Other times it is the end of result of cold, relaisation that life is indeed not worth living, becasue there will only be more misery and pain, and that misery and pain will outstrip the capaacity to feel or recieve any joy.
It is our great American cultural myth, that one has and should be able to draw upon limitless amounts of stoicism, and that one always has the personal volition to change one’s circumstances for the better, if only they are motivated enough. Anyone who has experienced the more sinister side of life or visited some darker corners of the globe knows that life is far more random and cruel that we would ever like to admit. Some people truly get dealt a shitty deck even in a materially opulant sociey such as ours; and whilst certainly due to genetics, upbrining and social resources, some are better at dealing with the arrows that our inevitabley slung at us in life, none of us are invincible. There is a breaking point for all of us, some reach it earlier than others. That’s why the “his/her problems werent that bad” (the ones that were of been apparent to you, the onlooler, at least) becomes redundant. Everyone has a breaking under accrued weight, and what broke the camels back was just that - the final blow. That breakup, job loss or something as innocuous as a broken fan belt was just part of a long line of accrued and (more than likely) silent miseries, so for blaming a suicide on a persons lack of will in respoinse to an apparent circumstnace, is incredibly short-sighted.
I miss Bill.
Before things got bad for him - before Saddam invaded Kuwait, before that chopper suffered a rudder failure and crashed, before his wife couldnt deal with him waking up screaming in the middle of the night, before it hurt Bill too much climb a step-ladder to repair a light fitting - he was warm, optimistic a pleasure to be around. The type of friend you could count on at a moments notice to help you out. I would very much like to him again. I’d like to drink some Sam Adams on my back porch with him, or go lift as we we did in our first forays into the weightroom in high school, or just cruise around in my car like we did as teenagers checking out the girls.
I also know that my friend was suffering physically and mentally in such a way that I feel no human should have to go through. He had endured enough bad luck and misfortune as far as any realisitc person would agree with.
It was dissapointment after dissapointment as one medication would improve one symptom for his complications but give him two extra side effects. The guy couldn’t get a fucking break. Am I upset that my freind committed suicde? Yes, to this day. Did I, along with his family members, feel such terrible greif, anger and guilt when he passed? Yes, also to this day. I am in the back of my mind, also relieved that he is no longer suffering, that he no longer has to go through the agony of another day?, that is also an unequivocal yes too.[/quote]
Wow… this brought tears to my eyes.
Sorry for your loss CM.
Excellent post.
[/quote]
x2
It’s the type of experience that deserves to be publicised in some way. Really hard not to feel the pain.
I’m sorry to anyone who felt that my sentiments were shallow/unthoughtful.
[quote]RSGZ wrote:
Also, if you know someone that is depressed, you better make sure you do all you can to help if you at all give a fuck about them.
After a fair amount of research into it, people with clinical depression due to chemical imbalances won’t get better with medication most of the time - because that shit only treats symptoms rather than the cause. In fact, it probably makes them worse off a lot of the time.
MP, a member on here, suggested this book to me once upon a time - I HIGHLY recommend anyone looking to help someone with depression check it out, you may just save their lives.
http://www.amazon.co.uk/UltraMind-Solution-Broken-Brain-Healing/dp/1416549714[/quote]
Yeah it’s so important to make sure the person avoids isolation/isolating themselves. A good social support network is vital
Have any of you been around a family member when they got the news that a sibling took their own life?, I have, it’s horrible.
When I was younger(twenty something) a bunch of my friends and I went out to dinner and then drinks to one of our houses after. One girl had a brother that was a manic depressive and the rest of the family looked out for him because of this. Anyway we were all sitting around drinking beers when the phone rang. Scott who was the BF of the girl comes bursting into the room and yells/cries “Mag, he finally did, he killed himself, what the fuck do we do now?”
The rest of us just sat there stunned and did our best to help them deal with it before they deciced what to do. One of the most fucked up situations I’ve ever been in.
I’ve always wondered to myself, if the folks that take their own life could see the ripple affect it has on people that loved them would they still go through with it. Sounds silly I know but maybe they would change their mind.
[quote]its_just_me wrote:
[quote]RSGZ wrote:
Also, if you know someone that is depressed, you better make sure you do all you can to help if you at all give a fuck about them.
After a fair amount of research into it, people with clinical depression due to chemical imbalances won’t get better with medication most of the time - because that shit only treats symptoms rather than the cause. In fact, it probably makes them worse off a lot of the time.
MP, a member on here, suggested this book to me once upon a time - I HIGHLY recommend anyone looking to help someone with depression check it out, you may just save their lives.
http://www.amazon.co.uk/UltraMind-Solution-Broken-Brain-Healing/dp/1416549714[/quote]
Yeah it’s so important to make sure the person avoids isolation/isolating themselves. A good social support network is vital[/quote]
The family I told you about kept an eye on him everyday. Sometimes they are just too determined. Actually, one of the brothers who would do sports betting with him to have an excuse to see him all the time found him hanging from the rafters of his apartment. He went over one day like all the rest and he didn’t answer the door. After a few minutes of banging on the door he busted in. He told me later he had a terrible premonition driving over that day, thats why he risked breaking the door in, weird shit man.
[quote]bond james bond wrote:
I’ve always wondered to myself, if the folks that take their own life could see the ripple affect it has on people that loved them would they still go through with it. Sounds silly I know but maybe they would change their mind.
[/quote]
Highly doubtful.
It’s pretty common knowledge that when someone commits suicide they’re really going to affect those around them - my friend vowed never to do it because of that reason (among others), and yet he still went through with it.
[quote]bond james bond wrote:
[quote]its_just_me wrote:
[quote]RSGZ wrote:
Also, if you know someone that is depressed, you better make sure you do all you can to help if you at all give a fuck about them.
After a fair amount of research into it, people with clinical depression due to chemical imbalances won’t get better with medication most of the time - because that shit only treats symptoms rather than the cause. In fact, it probably makes them worse off a lot of the time.
MP, a member on here, suggested this book to me once upon a time - I HIGHLY recommend anyone looking to help someone with depression check it out, you may just save their lives.
http://www.amazon.co.uk/UltraMind-Solution-Broken-Brain-Healing/dp/1416549714[/quote]
Yeah it’s so important to make sure the person avoids isolation/isolating themselves. A good social support network is vital[/quote]
The family I told you about kept an eye on him everyday. Sometimes they are just too determined. Actually, one of the brothers who would do sports betting with him to have an excuse to see him all the time found him hanging from the rafters of his apartment. He went over one day like all the rest and he didn’t answer the door. After a few minutes of banging on the door he busted in. He told me later he had a terrible premonition driving over that day, thats why he risked breaking the door in, weird shit man.[/quote]
But were they actually helping him or just ‘watching him’ to stop him doing anything stupid.
I’m willing to bet the cases of depression have skyrocketed in the past 50 years, and I think that it is down to diets and food allergies causing these problems, food standards and quality seem to be getting lower all over the world.
I’m not an expert on this by any means (there are a few members on here that are highly versed in this field) but the most common allergies are wheat and dairy.
If you have an intolerance you may not even show any physical symptoms, but if those allergies prevent you from absorbing certain vitamins and/or nutrients, you will eventually have a lack thereof in your brain - the so called chemical imbalance.
Drugs won’t fix this because they don’t cure your allergies, and this is where avoiding certain foods altogether and following the right type of diet can correct many mental problems (obviously there is a lot more to it than that, but hopefully you can see what I’m getting at).
[quote]spyoptic wrote:
I don’t know what its called but isn’t there a psychological phenomenon where a place with one suicide suffers a spike in suicides the following years? There was also a jump in suicide rates after Kurt Cobain’s ticket got punched.[/quote]
Yes, there is. I don’t have the study off hand, but yeah.
The other night I was watching a celebrity “trace your ancestry” episode and the guest was the actor Steve Buscemi. His great great grandfather in 1850 something attemted suicide and left a note behind with directions to find his body. Whats intersting to me is that the setiments he wrote about in the note were similar to what I would expect today. Money problems, two kids to support, shaky marriage etc. Same shit, different day I guess.
[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
[quote]spyoptic wrote:
I don’t know what its called but isn’t there a psychological phenomenon where a place with one suicide suffers a spike in suicides the following years? There was also a jump in suicide rates after Kurt Cobain’s ticket got punched.[/quote]
Yes, there is. I don’t have the study off hand, but yeah.[/quote]
There’s a walkway over a highway in Toronto somewhere that because of the increasing number of jumpers they had to screen the whole thing in.
Here’s a link. It had some odd rate numbers. Not sure if it’s what your talking about though.
^You reminded of this docu/film I watched a few years ago and it was a real eye opener! They have patrols running up a down the length of the Golden Gate trying to stop people from jumping!
The film maker (Eric Steel) had his camera trained on the bridge for a period a year and captured a number of suicides, pretty harrowing stuff.
Warning: Below is footage from that film of someone actually jumping…
This is of someone being pulled to safety by a passer by…