What's the Deal With the Constitution?

Many times people from the US will argue that one should not do this and that because it’s unconstitutional. I get that you have to follow the law and everything, that’s not my issue.

My issue is really that it seems like many people are putting this document on a pedestal. It’s almost treated like a holy document. Lots of things have changed since that document was created, and I don’t really see “because it’s in the constitution” as a good argument by default.

Do you see it as a “holy” document, and why? Do you see it as something that can and should be changed for the better of the people, or do you see it as something that in theory could be changed for the better of the people, but it’s not neccessary because you already agree with it?

Pardon me if this was formulated in a clumsy way, but as a Norwegian it would be interesting to see your thoughts on this.

It’s the basis of the limits of our government and the citizens rights. It is the basic law of our country, it is not a holy document, but if we did not have it shit would be fucked up. Seriously fucked up.

When we follow the Constitution we prosper, when we waver from the Constitution we fall. Are monetary system is about to experience just that.

The reason why our constitution is so great is because it limits government.

The Constitution is the greatest document in the world, It is time tested and it works. So when someone says something is unconstitutional it is a very good argument.

The constitution does not limit government. The government is expected to limit itself BY FOLLOWING THE CONSTITUTION!!

Think about that for a second…

Too many seem to forget that it also points out what we can and cannot do to each other’s individual rights and freedoms.

It doesn’t just define the limits of Government.

Mufasa

[quote]Mufasa wrote:
Too many seem to forget that it also points out what we can and cannot do to each other’s individual rights and freedoms.

Mufasa[/quote]

How?

I’m a little weary of going down this road again for the Umpteenth time, Orion.

It’s all there. Start with the 13th, 14th and 15th Amendments.

Mufasa

[quote]molnes wrote:

My issue is really that it seems like many people are putting this document on a pedestal. It’s almost treated like a holy document. [/quote]

Like a holy document? Well, as a people, no. If we respected it all we wouldn’t have wealth redistribution programs which threaten to consume the entire federal budget. And we damn sure wouldn’t be entertaining the idea of forcing people to purchase a healthcare plan.

[quote]Mufasa wrote:
I’m a little weary of going down this road again for the Umpteenth time, Orion.

It’s all there. Start with the 13th, 14th and 15th Amendments.

Mufasa[/quote]

Well the 13th f.E abolishes slavery as a private institution. Since that was only possible because US governments upheld it I do not see how it does not address the state.

It is similar to a provision that prevents the government from censoring the press.

That has consequences for individuals but I fail to see how it addresses them.

[quote]molnes wrote:
Many times people from the US will argue that one should not do this and that because it’s unconstitutional. I get that you have to follow the law and everything, that’s not my issue.

My issue is really that it seems like many people are putting this document on a pedestal. It’s almost treated like a holy document. Lots of things have changed since that document was created, and I don’t really see “because it’s in the constitution” as a good argument by default. [/quote]

The first thing you need to understand is that the founding fathers who wrote the constitution had a perspective that the vast majority of Americans living today do not have because people living today have grown up knowing freedom. So the experience based wisdom of the founding fathers is highly valued.

The next point is you have reiterated a dogma that is patently false. Nothing has changed since in the time since the constitution was written. Humans are just as capable of doing bad things as we ever were. Thinking that the human race has somehow become vastly superior because we have modern technology is the most dangerous of all delusions. This is why Europe is sliding into autoritarianism with the EU.

If you find that hard to believe then answer this question. How have things changed since the constitution was written?

[quote]
Do you see it as a “holy” document, and why? Do you see it as something that can and should be changed for the better of the people, or do you see it as something that in theory could be changed for the better of the people, but it’s not neccessary because you already agree with it? [/quote]

If something isn’t broken you don’t fix it. The American constitution was very well thought out by some brilliant people who didn’t have the distractions and competing interests that we have today to drag them constitution off into unnecessary tangents like the EU constitution does.

The strength of the American constitution is it written in simple language that the people can understand. Compare that to the EU constitution which was deliberately written in complicated legalese that no one can understand.

Also there is the order of the amendments. With the first and second amendments the essentials of the people maintaining their freedom are covered. You don’t have to go digging around through thousands of pages of text trying to figure out what is what, like the EU constitution.

[quote]

Pardon me if this was formulated in a clumsy way, but as a Norwegian it would be interesting to see your thoughts on this. [/quote]

I think it is a good thing that people here want to treat the constitution as sacred and don’t let people just go rewriting it. I think that overall the founding fathers really got it right because the document has withstood the test of time. More importantly I certainly would not trust ANY of our modern day politicians to re-write it claiming they will come up with something better.

Most importantly, any changes that need to be made can be made through the amendment process which we have had very few of.

It is the foundation of the greatest nation in the world. All the rest are found lacking. Of the proposed revisions I have seen there are none that are not foolhardy.

For some who swear to defend it with their lives, it is a holy document.

[quote]RumRiverCATO wrote:
For some who swear to defend it with their lives, it is a holy document. [/quote]

And like all holy documents it is ignored when it becomes too inconvenient to follow its teachings.

[quote]molnes wrote:
Many times people from the US will argue that one should not do this and that because it’s unconstitutional. I get that you have to follow the law and everything, that’s not my issue.

My issue is really that it seems like many people are putting this document on a pedestal. It’s almost treated like a holy document. Lots of things have changed since that document was created, and I don’t really see “because it’s in the constitution” as a good argument by default.

Do you see it as a “holy” document, and why? Do you see it as something that can and should be changed for the better of the people, or do you see it as something that in theory could be changed for the better of the people, but it’s not neccessary because you already agree with it?

Pardon me if this was formulated in a clumsy way, but as a Norwegian it would be interesting to see your thoughts on this.[/quote]

It’s a document That establishes the Sovereignty and freedom of the Individual. It’s What made America, America. Change, alter or disregard the Constitution and America is Over. And it well may be. I find it unfathomable that we could move in a direction of Ignoring the constitution. Unbelievable. But it is happening and i don’t see it stopping now, short of a revolution, even a peaceful one.

The constitution is unfortunately becoming a Museum piece of an idealized time from long ago.

[quote]Gregus wrote:
molnes wrote:

It’s a document That establishes the Sovereignty and freedom of the Individual. It’s What made America, America. Change, alter or disregard the Constitution and America is Over. And it well may be. I find it unfathomable that we could move in a direction of Ignoring the constitution. Unbelievable. But it is happening and i don’t see it stopping now, short of a revolution, even a peaceful one.

The constitution is unfortunately becoming a Museum piece of an idealized time from long ago. [/quote]

X2

The founding fathers designed the constitution so that no one person can have all the power. We have 3 branches that have equal power. Checks and Balances. When we talk about beaurocrisy that is what the founding fathers wanted. IMO the only thing the founding fathers missed was term limits.

[quote]dmaddox wrote:
Gregus wrote:
molnes wrote:

It’s a document That establishes the Sovereignty and freedom of the Individual. It’s What made America, America. Change, alter or disregard the Constitution and America is Over. And it well may be. I find it unfathomable that we could move in a direction of Ignoring the constitution. Unbelievable. But it is happening and i don’t see it stopping now, short of a revolution, even a peaceful one.

The constitution is unfortunately becoming a Museum piece of an idealized time from long ago.

X2

The founding fathers designed the constitution so that no one person can have all the power. We have 3 branches that have equal power. Checks and Balances. When we talk about beaurocrisy that is what the founding fathers wanted. IMO the only thing the founding fathers missed was term limits.[/quote]

Possibly they missed more. Now we can have a single party dominate all 3 branches or at least 2. This is problematic and what we have happening now. It is in effect a soft take over.

Also i may be wrong but the supreme court and it’s establishment was very controversial and fought against.