What's Romney Hiding?

[quote]groo wrote:

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

[quote]groo wrote:
To the original topic this is likely one of the bigger actual issues with his tax return.

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That journalist has about half a clue as to what he is talking about.

Carried interest… I’m shaking my head at how miss leading this article is.

Does anyone want me to explain how this works and what a carry is?[/quote]

Carried interest is an imaginary thing. It is taking what should be a wage income and magically changing it into a capital gain. Glad I could help! :slight_smile:
[/quote]

Utterly false.

I assume you are being a wise ass.

A Carry does not, nor has it ever change the character of income and loss.

A Carry does not “change Ordinary Earnings into Capital Gains”, and that people believe this, or otherwise spread it as true is retarded. I mean this silly.

When you set up a VC (venture capital) fund you do so in the form of a limited partnership(LP). The LP has two types of partners, General and Limitied. The General partner has personal liability and the limited partern’s liablility is limited (hense the name) to their equity, typically including committed capital if not paid in yet.

Your typical VC fund (the partnership) will have 60-1,200 maybe more limited partners and one general. The limited partners are the outside investors, pension funds, charities, individuals, trusts, what have you. Now the limited partners will put up about 99% of the capital, and the GP will typically commit 1%. Then the Fund takes the capital these partners put in and invests in various things. The income and loss from these investments are shared among the partners based on committed capital percentages. So, if the Fund raised 1 billion, and partner 2 committed 500 million, they would get half of the income or loss from investments.

With me so far?

Now the General Partner is typically another partnership, who’s limited partners are the directors and/or big players at the VC firm. So in Bain’s case, it would be people like Mitt. Now they are getting 1% of the profit and loss here. Ignoring management fees for now, this isn’t very much nut on a lot of risk and work. So they write “Carries” into the deals.

All a Carry does is say “If certain investments perform better than some pre-determined benchmark, the General Partner will get 10% of those gains rather than 1%.” So, if the Fund is kicking ass, suddenly the GP will get a big back end kicker for picking winners.

If the winners are passing through large amounts of Ordinary Income or Interest to the Fund, those gains stay OI or Int as it passes through to the general partner, and stay OI or Int as it passes through to the directors who are limited partners in the general partner. But the thing is, a Fund is going to structure it’s investments to try and make sure income or gain is capital in nature, and due to the nature of venture capital in general, most gains are capital in nature.

Carried interest is not wages in any way shape or form, and you would need an utter lack of knowledge of the situation or business in general to believe that to be true.

You are providing a narrow analysis though as this is a relatively hotly contested issue. As hot as tax issues that effect very few ever get I guess.

Romney himself has been wishy washy on what he thinks of this which of course with him is no surprise.

Would you disagree that this article, which has a bias sure, on all counts? Obviously there are some issues here.

[quote]groo wrote:
You are providing a narrow analysis though[/quote]

No. I am telling you what it is. If it is narrow, than be mad at life. Because it is what it is.

[quote]groo wrote:
Would you disagree that this article, which has a bias sure, on all counts? Obviously there are some issues here.

[/quote]

The article is largly miss leading and full of shit in other instances.

Explosiv

Yes, I am familiar with the definition of war criminal. You need to make a serious case for calling Bush a war criminal or STFU, because that is a completely unsustainable argument. It is ridiculous, and even left-leaning journalists have called it false (HuffPo comes to mind). Further, if you’re REALLY committed to that line of argumentation then you should respond to the attacks that Ralph Nader has made–on video–calling Obama a War Criminal.

So you’d better make a cleanly argued, soundly reasoned case for this or be quiet and realize you’re wrong.

And no, I never said anything about Bush being a great president. I only responded to calling him a war criminal.

[quote]Explosiv wrote:

[quote]ZEB wrote:

[quote]Explosiv wrote:

[quote]ZEB wrote:

[quote]Explosiv wrote:
This is the definition of a “liberal” that you gave me:

So someone who doesn’t blame Bush is not a liberal categorically?[/quote]

I see you are not as sharp as you think you are, keep scanning Skippy.[/quote]

Nah, I gave you what you typed.

You either admit that you have no grasp of the topic at hand, which you’re clearly showing, or enlighten me.[/quote]

You’ve got an “F” for the day due to your own laziness.

[/quote]

I think the reason people like you rage at John Stewart so hard is because what he says is true. And it’s funny.

But it’s funny, precisely because of the fact that the whole comedy is the fact that there are actually politicians who say the ridiculous things that he shows and then there are people that eat it up (like yourself).

I’ve noticed that I have friends like this, who absolutely rage when they watch John Stewart before they watch Steven Colbert.

I never see someone rage at Bill O’Reilly the way that self proclaimed “right winger conservatives” rage at Stewart. You say that Stewart is a comedian, but O’Reilly is too. Except O’Reilly doesn’t mean to be funny.

And the reality of the rage is very simple. Either you accept that these politicians are ridiculous and say hilarious things, which at the same time would cause you to realize that your political position is ridiculous, or you get angry for someone pointing it out so bluntly at your expense and for others humorous gain.

You can clearly see which side you fall on.[/quote]

I’ve always thought of O’Reilly as central-right. John Steward is a bit left of center-left. And I know I’ve seen a fair share of what conservatives on this board might call ‘flaming liberals’ look like steam was about to come out of their ears watching it.

Just saying that since anecdotes came into this so I thought I would add my own.

One more thing. For reference and perspective, I’m center-left.