Are you sure about that?
I will elaborate. Supplemental thyroid will increase your T3 and T4 and as a result your TSH will decrease. If you take too much thyroid, your TSH will bottom out and trigger your body to produce less hormones.
If you are taking the right amount of medication, then your T3 and T4 will be optimal, and your TSH will be at a normal level (sometimes a little lower than the lab ranges). In other words, your body will still trigger production of its own thyroid hormones, and the medication will make up the difference. So there is no shut down of your natural production.
It is different than testosterone in that when taking test, you need a full replacement dose to stabilize at normal levels. With thyroid you just need to take enough to add on to your natural production to get you to normal levels.
BTW, when you stop taking thyroid hormones, your TSH will increase and your body will bounce back to the way it was once the extra hormones are eliminated pretty much immediately.
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So no bottoming out of hormones and feeling worse than you began? Basically like if you came off TRT, you bottom out and feel like shit for a while.
Reason I ask, my doc may put me on something as a sub clinical diagnosis since I’m symptomatic. However, if I ever stop taking it, I don’t want to be worse off than I began.
@enackers is this true?
There’s no reason to get off thyroid meds if you’re hypo thyroid. I can tell you that if you’re not dialed in you’ll fell less than optimal. Most people need a TSH around 1 to get their FT3 and FT4 into an optimal range. My TSH is actually 0.5 to put my numbers at the high end of the range, and it’s where I feel the best.
Just make sure you know how to feel the difference between feeling hypo and hyper, a lot of the symptoms overlap so sometimes it can be hard to tell. For me, I get bad heart palpitations if I’m hypo, and bad night sweats if I’m hyper. But I’ll get really anxious and irritable if I’m either hypo or hyper, so that overlaps for me.
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Yes I agree. The tsh is thyroid stimulating hormone telling thyroid we need more… If it’s zero the body no longer sends the signal (I think it’s the brain that sends the signal I can’t recall).
Funny never thought about this scenario specially but it’s sensible and makes sense considering how our thyroid operates with tsh.
What I have learned is that the thyroid does kick back to normal after use of armour thyroid.
Yes but TSH is notoriously inaccurate. Ft3 levels are definitely the best way to make sure you are topped off.
You won’t but why go back I’d that was the cause of symtoms. Trust me once you feel good with thyroid hormones you won’t ever want to stop unless you know for sure you will kick back online and better without symptoms when you stop.
@enackers which thyroid med are you on and what dosage? Just curious. Thought it was armour but I thought I saw something about armour being bought and being different now? Maybe that was something else. Thyroid is the next thing I’m testing. Already have seen tsh go from 2 to 3 over the last year
I concur. Which is why I gave the example that my TSH needs to be below the lab range to get my FT3 and FT4 into a normal/high end of the lab range. I guess I didn’t state that explicitly.
From my experience, doctors are more aware of this now than they used to be. I’ve seen quite a few Family heath doctors and endocrinologist in my life. In the 90s and early 2000s all they would do is test TSH only, most that I’ve seen recently will test TSH and FT4 at a minimum, and will agree to test FT3 if you ask.
It’s good to get both FT3 and FT4 tested regularly, the T3 values will fluctuate more throughout the day, but the T4 value will be pretty stable. It’s always good to look at them both together.
I always get my bloodwork in the AM before taking my meds to give me a trough value. T3 metabolizes very quickly, so you don’t want to test for that right after taking the pill, or it will give you a peak value.
Armour thyroid.
I started with bovine and I was on 2 grains am and pm and that did the trick. I started 1 and 1.
Pharmacy ran out of bovine chemicals and switched me to synthetic. I felt like I was dying all over again. I tried 2, 3 and 4 and none resolved symtoms.
Finally switched to armour and I managed to increase to 2 grains am and pm after experimenting and that’s the dose that makes me feel like not sleeping mid morning and after lunch and I don’t have any more fatigue or depression.
I had 5 something tsh. If it’s increasing that’s bad. You want to ask yourself what symtoms you are experiencing. I had serious fatigue and depression. I could not focus and coffee or any other energy foods did nothing for me. I could sleep 10-12 hours and wake up stilL tired. If you have been feeling tired and more tired this is probably thyroid since tsh is high.
Especially go for thyroid If trt hasn’t resolved energy, fatigue and depression then thyroids a good choice. A trial run is totally fine and you’ll quickly realize if you need it or not.
The t4:t3 ranges need to be in the top of range. 3.8 out of 5 sucks. 4.2 for me sucked. I raised towards 4.5+ and got well.
Go to stop the thyroid madness like @dextermorgan has mentioned and the site does thyroid right. You can pretty much learn everything form them and rest assured it’s accurate and helpful information.
Too bad we don’t have on for TRT where everyone can rely on one source.
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I had a boost of energy for the first month or so and some other symptoms got better but ultimately went back to how I was. Right now other than the itchy DHT scalp feeling I can’t tell if TRT is doing much.
Concentration issues for sure, falling asleep after lunch, etc
My ft3 was 3.2 a year ago but I haven’t tested since. May do that this week and see what I get. I’d just give it a trial run if I could get some Armour but haven’t had any luck finding it outside a prescription
Ok that’s what thyroid did for me.
Trt didn’t work I just felt off and fatigue never went away. I had a couple moments I thought it was working but no it did not for months. Even libido was there 10% of the time.
I started thyroid and it all came together. Started feeling benefits of t quickly after
Armour is prescription only. There are definitely docs that will prescribe it. As well as doctors that will do over the phone coaching. Shouldn’t be too hard to find.
Right. I was figuring I could get it from my usual sites that sell antibiotics, steroids, viagra, etc would have it but no such luck
I brought it up with Defy last time I talked to them and they didn’t seem interested until tsh got over 3. Mine was actually 2.9. They added thyroid stuff to my next labs but those are months out unless I go ahead with them sooner, which I’m probably going to do.
So thyroid improved this for you as well I’m assuming? I’m pretty frustrated still on that aspect. I’ve had like 2-3 weeks of normalcy sex wise since starting all this late June (and a year+ of issues before then)
So on trt since June. What did your labs show and did you stay at same dose since mine till today?
If 20+ and it’s not working you can try a trial of thyroid and ifs probably a good test .wont hurt man. Either it doesn’t work or it does and you’ve found gold.
My shbg was/is crazy high. 150+ before, 90’ish now. Free T was way under normal range. E2 was single digits. A year ago my tt was 1100 naturally and my free t was still under the normal range.
Worst issues I had were sexual. Mainly sensitivity issues causing anorgasmia.
First 8 weeks or so I was on 150mg/week of injections. Week 7-8 were some of the few I felt normal. Finally didn’t constantly go numb during sex.
Got tired of poking myself all the time so switched to creme. Issues came back, figured I just needed time to adjust to the creme. Dosage was 150mg/day. Same thing. 7-8 weeks in I had a week or two normalcy again. Labs were 1500+ TT, 39 FT, 73 e2. Tried HCG (doctor suggested it) and went downhill over the next week or two and haven’t been good since. Same thing as usual. Sensitivity and anorgasmia issues. Last HCG was 3 full weeks ago. I don’t know if the hcg caused me to go downhill or it was just a coincidence.
That’s all I’ve got
Edit: oh. And I took finasteride for years before all this, pretty sure that’s why my shbg ended up crazy.
Edit 2: and I’ve always been cold, freezing hands, cold feet, it can be 70+ outside but if the wind blows and I don’t have a jacket I’ll be chilly. That’s another thing that makes me suspect thyroid.
Yes go thyroid stay on cream but do twice daily to keep levels consistent. Thyroid 100%. Revisit hcg later or stay on it. Prob don’t need 40 free t. Try 25-35
I didn’t mention that part but I do split the application now. 2 clicks AM, 1 click PM. The 40 free T lab value was my peak reading, so the doc was OK with it because of that. It was pretty surprising to me that I get to 40 free T on only 2 clicks that morning, but I guess everyone is different.
I’m going to get thyroid tests this week and also try to get Defy to let me do a trial of Armour. I’m trying to avoid having to pay for another visit and another round of labs but it may be necessary. If they say no then I’m not sure how else to get it.