Unless you wait like 10+ minutes after you eat your protein to eat your carbs or fats is it really going to matter? It all gets stored in the stomach for awhile anyways. Although yes part of carbs are digested by salivary amylase.
[quote]zraw wrote:
JMoUCF87 wrote:
this is the biggest crock of shit I have ever read on this forum (and that’s saying a lot).
but hey, what do I know, I’m not “huge”.
Well maybe you could explain to us why it is?
[/quote]
because meals take HOURS to digest completely (a typical sized mixed meal of protein, fat, and carbs takes about 5 hours to digest)
there is constant overlap of foods/nutrients in the gut and bloodstream which means that all this business about precisely separating macronutrients by meal (ie P+F, P+C etc.) is basically bullshit…as far as preciously timing the ingestion of certain foods WITHIN a single meal? Horseshit, it has never has made a difference in anyone’s physique, and never will.
haha woahhh.
Well my chicken is usually dry as fuck when I eat it so I can’t eat that first. Gotta eat it cut up mixed in with my pasta and the sauce…or the meal will take f-o-r-e-v-e-r to eat lol.
Put it all in a blender and drink through a straw, just to be safe.
[quote]zraw wrote:
JMoUCF87 wrote:
this is the biggest crock of shit I have ever read on this forum (and that’s saying a lot).
but hey, what do I know, I’m not “huge”.
Well maybe you could explain to us why it is?
[/quote]
Well what it comes down to is. Am I going to listen to a large group of people who compete and have helped many compete @ high levels? or listen to some random guy on a bodybuilding forum? hmmmmmm…
You really have your priorities fucked up if you are worrying about which macro to eat first - really, it’s not important.
Just because a guy is big and helps people compete, doesn’t mean everthing he tells you is correct.
[quote]RSGZ wrote:
You really have your priorities fucked up if you are worrying about which macro to eat first - really, it’s not important.
Just because a guy is big and helps people compete, doesn’t mean everthing he tells you is correct.[/quote]
Maybe… but until anything he’s said DOESN’T work for me in a very positive way, I’ll continue to listen to that huge guy who helps put on copious amounts of lbs of muscle onto his clients while mainting relatively lean conditions.
I’m not sayin’, I’m just sayin’.
[quote]RSGZ wrote:
You really have your priorities fucked up if you are worrying about which macro to eat first - really, it’s not important.
Just because a guy is big and helps people compete, doesn’t mean everthing he tells you is correct.[/quote]
Exactly. The problem is that for years on this board Prof X has said this very thing “listen to the big guy”, but what people fail to also realize is that PX has said, that even the big guys don’t know everything.
This being one of those times.
Hell big guys have advocated behind the neck exercises for a long time, doesn’t make it right, Arnold advocated pullovers to expand the rib cage.
[quote]Carlitosway wrote:
zraw wrote:
JMoUCF87 wrote:
this is the biggest crock of shit I have ever read on this forum (and that’s saying a lot).
but hey, what do I know, I’m not “huge”.
Well maybe you could explain to us why it is?
Well what it comes down to is. Am I going to listen to a large group of people who compete and have helped many compete @ high levels? or listen to some random guy on a bodybuilding forum? hmmmmmm…[/quote]
yes, that makes sense. listen to whatever anyone “big” tells you, without question.
I think I’ll do some pullovers to “expand the ribcage”, drink a pint of beer post workout because “milk is for babies”, do high rep ab work to “sculpt and chisel” my midsection and will stop doing squats because they “widen the hips”. (all of these sayings can be attributed to old timer bodybuilding myths)
can you not see the stupidity in your reasoning?
just because someone (anyone) tells you something doesn’t make it true. there have been hundreds, probably thousands, of different “rules” for eating/training advocated by some juiced up behemoth somewhere, but that doesn’t necessarily make it so.
you get results by doing the basics day in and day out for years at a time, not by constantly looking for the “secrets”.
[quote]JMoUCF87 wrote:
Carlitosway wrote:
zraw wrote:
JMoUCF87 wrote:
this is the biggest crock of shit I have ever read on this forum (and that’s saying a lot).
but hey, what do I know, I’m not “huge”.
Well maybe you could explain to us why it is?
Well what it comes down to is. Am I going to listen to a large group of people who compete and have helped many compete @ high levels? or listen to some random guy on a bodybuilding forum? hmmmmmm…
yes, that makes sense. listen to whatever anyone “big” tells you, without question.
I think I’ll do some pullovers to “expand the ribcage”, drink a pint of beer post workout because “milk is for babies”, do high rep ab work to “sculpt and chisel” my midsection and will stop doing squats because they “widen the hips”. (all of these sayings can be attributed to old timer bodybuilding myths)
can you not see the stupidity in your reasoning?
just because someone (anyone) tells you something doesn’t make it true. there have been hundreds, probably thousands, of different “rules” for eating/training advocated by some juiced up behemoth somewhere, but that doesn’t necessarily make it so.
you get results by doing the basics day in and day out for years at a time, not by constantly looking for the “secrets”.[/quote]
You do realise that it’s not only Dante that’s advocating this way of eating right?
“just because someone (anyone) tells you something doesn’t make it true.”
so basically, you could just be the one saying bullshit.
I don’t think i’ll die from eating my proteins first or get any sort of negative results from it, am I?
[quote]zraw wrote:
JMoUCF87 wrote:
Carlitosway wrote:
zraw wrote:
JMoUCF87 wrote:
this is the biggest crock of shit I have ever read on this forum (and that’s saying a lot).
but hey, what do I know, I’m not “huge”.
Well maybe you could explain to us why it is?
Well what it comes down to is. Am I going to listen to a large group of people who compete and have helped many compete @ high levels? or listen to some random guy on a bodybuilding forum? hmmmmmm…
yes, that makes sense. listen to whatever anyone “big” tells you, without question.
I think I’ll do some pullovers to “expand the ribcage”, drink a pint of beer post workout because “milk is for babies”, do high rep ab work to “sculpt and chisel” my midsection and will stop doing squats because they “widen the hips”. (all of these sayings can be attributed to old timer bodybuilding myths)
can you not see the stupidity in your reasoning?
just because someone (anyone) tells you something doesn’t make it true. there have been hundreds, probably thousands, of different “rules” for eating/training advocated by some juiced up behemoth somewhere, but that doesn’t necessarily make it so.
you get results by doing the basics day in and day out for years at a time, not by constantly looking for the “secrets”.
You do realise that it’s not only Dante that’s advocating this way of eating right?
“just because someone (anyone) tells you something doesn’t make it true.”
so basically, you could just be the one saying bullshit.
I don’t think i’ll die from eating my proteins first or get any sort of negative results from it, am I?
[/quote]
Right. If it doesn’t matter when you eat your foods anyway, why the hell does anyone care if we want to eat protein first?
[quote]zraw wrote:
I don’t think i’ll die from eating my proteins first or get any sort of negative results from it, am I?
[/quote]
You’re right, same as the guy that doesn’t combine C+F in the same meal, neither will kill you or hinder progress, but why obsess over stupid shit
if you WANT to eat your protein first, go ahead, it won’t hurt you… but it won’t help you either, so why make things more complicated than they need to be?
finally, I suppose if someone habitually ate their carbs/fat first in a meal, AT THE EXPENSE of eating too little protein (i.e. they leave the protein on their plate because they filled up on rice or potatoes), then yes, it may be a good idea to eat the protein first.
but I’m assuming that recreational bodybuilders (eg the people on this site) would be a little more aware of what their eating, and therefore, not skimp on their protein in the first place. If that is the case, then being hyper-anal about eating protein first won’t make a bit of difference.
[quote]jehovasfitness wrote:
why obsess over stupid shit[/quote]
like the 0.1 grams of partially hydrogenated coconut oil in your Gatorade powder?
sorry, it was too easy.
[quote]JMoUCF87 wrote:
jehovasfitness wrote:
why obsess over stupid shit
like the 0.1 grams of partially hydrogenated coconut oil in your Gatorade powder?
[/quote]
LOL… zing!
[quote]JMoUCF87 wrote:
jehovasfitness wrote:
why obsess over stupid shit
like the 0.1 grams of partially hydrogenated coconut oil in your Gatorade powder?
sorry, it was too easy.[/quote]
touche, you bastid
I think it depends on your goals. Carbs don’t give you feeling of being full as much as protein. That being said I eat my sweet potatoe before I eat my steak so that way I don’t feel full halfway thru the steak. If I eat my steak first then I have trouble finishing my sweet potatoes.
Of course after everything is said and done I just put a scoop of Metabolic Drive in some chocolate milk and wash everything down with that.
[quote]jehovasfitness wrote:
RSGZ wrote:
You really have your priorities fucked up if you are worrying about which macro to eat first - really, it’s not important.
Just because a guy is big and helps people compete, doesn’t mean everthing he tells you is correct.
Exactly. The problem is that for years on this board Prof X has said this very thing “listen to the big guy”, but what people fail to also realize is that PX has said, that even the big guys don’t know everything.
This being one of those times.
Hell big guys have advocated behind the neck exercises for a long time, doesn’t make it right, Arnold advocated pullovers to expand the rib cage.
[/quote]
You know what I’m going to keep listening to the guys who have paid their dues and went from a 120-150 lbs up to over 250 lbs relatively lean not taking forever. While you guys can listen to who ever the fuck you want.
Also I respect you RSGZ and you usually have coherent answers on topics. jehova you’re cool to. What I’m trying to get at is. What’s so bad in learning from a guy who used to be skinny like me and went and reached a size noticeable in public?
Of course he’s going to drop more real knowledge compared to some guy who naturally was predisposed to being big and juiced his fucking brains out.
[quote]esk221 wrote:
QFT.
When it comes to taking advice from people on how to get jacked:
Being huge > Having a PHD.[/quote]
I respectfully disagree. Some people will naturally be huge. I feel the best people to learn from are the ones that had to work hardest and experiment with the various techniques (and subsequently have the most knowledge/experience). This is the same reason that the best major league pitchers don’t always make the best major league pitching coaches.
PhDs with a lot of experience in training athletes will also know what works for certain people, and will have a significantly more amount of knowledge and experience than someone who is naturally huge.
Maybe some reasons you have found that advice on how to get jacked from huge people is more respectable than getting advice from PhDs are
a) the PhDs weren’t PhDs at all- they were just posing
b) the size of the pool of people that are jacked is much much larger that of those that have PhDs in fitness. As a result, you will have come across a lot more huge people giving good advice while you may have only come across a few PhDs giving good advice, giving you the illusion that huge people give better advice.
[quote]zraw wrote:
"DC::Think for a second–If you fill your hunger with protein first what are you most likely not going to eat a huge amount of? It takes roughly 24.6-26 calories burned to digest every 100 calories of protein yet it only takes roughly 3.8 to 4.2 calories burned to digest every 100 calories of fats/carbs so are you figureing out yet why my trainees are always hot like a furnace and stay reasonably lean eating gross amounts of food?
If I can add something here to further back Dante’s theories:
Eating protein first in a meal increases the effeciency of digestion and a greater overall amount of protein as an end result in from a meal. In short a greater amount of aminos make it to the blood stream. Everytime I have written about this in the past few years people always are like “WOW I learned something new today”.
I call it eating for function.
The function of the digestive system.
I eat proteins first for 2 reasons-that digestive system is physiologically geared that way and it improves the effeciency of digestion and a greater overall availability of proteins/aminos from food for the body to use.
Carbohydrates are digested 30% in the mouth with the salivary enzyme amylase and of course chewing.
CARBS aren’t digested in the stomach=they just sit there and slowly pass into the small intestines where the pancreatic enzymes do 70% more and complete the process.
Fats are the same way if eaten first or mixed with carbs will sit there and clog up digestion.
Proteins are primarily digested in the stomach. Therfore, eating proteins after these foods will result in a reduced amount of protein digestion-leaving some incompletely digested and unabsorbable and therefore lost.
This in turn causes the undigested protein to be pulled into the small intestine reducing the protein effeciency of your meal and contributing to the mass of your colon.
You want something worse? We are set up by traditional eating to fail.
Go out to a steak house. First thing you get is your salad-THAT is the last thing you want to eat in a meal after the steak and then the potato.
Cellulose is undigestable by the human body and will really clog up the process reducing the effeciency of digestion and your meal itself.
As mentioned previously proteins speed up the metabolic rate more than carbs and fat. Concerning basal metabolism proteins speed it up 30%, Carbs and fats 10%. The mere process of digestion and absorbtion of protein races the metabolism and will increase anabolism in an advanced athlete.
Now granted you can eat a huge meal like a Mcdonalds Combo meal mix it all up and it will get digested but it will interfere with feedings and the effeciency of the meal will be less and eventually leadto a lot of adipose tissue gain.
There are reasons we eat Protein and Fat together and protein and carbs. Insulin. Eating fat and carbs are a death warrant to bb’ers when consumed together and lays adipose tissue down as easily as Home Depot lays down cheap carpet.
I could write more especially on the types of proteins and their absorbtion-things like incomplete proteins etc.
Poor Rocky still thinks Peanuts are a good protein meal when their amino acid structure is very very poor.
Maybe one day we can teach him that Rockys interpretation of DC training isn’t DC training.
Anyhoo…just my 2 cents. We are all here to learn from each other but Dante’s methods are backed by science and 3-4 years of online “University” studies with 100’s reaping the benefits-so it is good advice and gospel for most ADVANCED lifters.
PEACE.
This was a good post too in the thread:
Protein will serve you a dual role in body modification in that it is as important for body fat reduction as it is for muscular gains. In regards to body fat reduction, protein has a specific dynamic action on the metabolism which means that when you ingest protein, your metabolic rate is elevated higher and remains elevated longer than when you ingest either fats or carbohydrates.
A high carb meal will only elevate your metabolism from 4 to 30 percent above normal. This small elevation will last only 2 to 5 hours. A high protein meal however will elevate your metabolism by up to 70 percent above normal and this effect can last as long as 10 to 12 hours."
www.intensemuscle.com/5722-eating-protein-first-reviewing-why-we-do.html
[/quote]
There is definitely some merit in at least some of this post, I wouldn’t call b.s. on the whole thing at all.