In batting order:
SS. Derek Jeter
2B. Joe Morgan
CF. Ken Griffey Jr.
RF. Hank Aaron
LF. Stan Musial
3B. Mike Schmidt
1B. Lou Gehrig
C. Johnny Bench
In Rotation:
SP. Tom Seaver
SP. Sandy Koufax
SP. Greg Maddux
SP. Bob Gibbson
SP. Nolan Ryan
CP. Mariano Rivera
[quote]LankyMofo wrote:
Anyone that doesn’t have Babe Ruth on their list doesn’t know a damn thing about baseball.
Except jtrinsey because he obviously qualified his list with “they’d lose every game”. Although I’d put Shane Victorino in CF over Aaron Rowand.[/quote]
I qualified mine by saying I wasn’t putting anyone on I hadn’t seen.
[quote]Schwarzfahrer wrote:
Baseball is not my choice of lifestyle -nttawwt- , but I do wanna help my fellow T-Nationeers so I asked google about a pitcher…[/quote]
Pssht… You have to try harder than that if you’re going to impress LankEy! He wears heels bigger than that guys cock.
Obviously my list is a joke; I don’t even like most of those players. Well, actually, I really have nothing against them, but I just can’t stand the constant lionization of “scrappy,” “gritty,” “blue-collar” (aka, “white”) guys who are shorter than 5’11". Anybody who read FireJoeMorgan knows what I’m talking about.
If I had to make a serious list, using only players who played during my lifetime:
C: Ivan Rodriguez (can’t mess with Bench on the all-time list, but great bat and cannon arm)
1B: Albert Pujols (when all’s said and done, could be the all-time guy too, although he needs another 10 years to catch Musial/Gehrig)
2B: Robbie Alomar (Utley probably has the best peak but longevity gives Alomar the nod and glove gives it to him over Kent… none of these guys could fuck with Collins, Morgan or Hornsby though)
3B: Mike Schmidt (if you count ARod as a shortstop, he’s clearly the best 3B of all-time, although Brett was close, and he retired in '89 so I can still count him on this team)
SS: Alex Rodriguez (depending on how long he can keep it up, I think you might be able to make a reasonable argument for him as the best player of all-time, simply because he has played such a challenging defensive position and done it so well… compare his bat to the other great shortstops and there’s a bigger gap there than between the best players at any other position)
LF: Barry Bonds (if you were putting a 9-man team out that had to a win a game that your life depended on… and you don’t include Bonds, I can’t respect your knowledge of baseball)
CF: Griffey (no brainer)
RF: Rickey Henderson (I’m going to cheat because the leftfielders have been so much better. I’m pretty confident that Rickey or Bonds could play left. And the combined arrogance of the two of them would be worth it. Weird how there hasn’t seemed to be a ton of great rightfielders lately…)
Pinch-Hitter: Matt Stairs (LankyMofo is nodding his head right now)
As for pitchers:
SP: Pedro Martinez
SP: Greg Maddux
SP: Randy Johnson
SP: Roger Clemens (you can make a reasonable argument for him as the best of all-time)
SP: Jamie Moyer (after facing Randy and Roger throwing 95 , nobody would be able to hit Jamie’s 80mph “fastball”)
RP: Mariano Rivera
RP: Dennis Eckersley
RP: Rod Beck (RIP and terrific mullet/goatee combo)
I can’t believe how many people have Nolan Ryan on their all-time team. I don’t even think he’s a top-20 pitcher. I guess that’s what’s so great about baseball: it’s the best sport to argue about.
[quote]on edge wrote:
[quote]LankyMofo wrote:
Anyone that doesn’t have Babe Ruth on their list doesn’t know a damn thing about baseball.
Except jtrinsey because he obviously qualified his list with “they’d lose every game”. Although I’d put Shane Victorino in CF over Aaron Rowand.[/quote]
I qualified mine by saying I wasn’t putting anyone on I hadn’t seen.[/quote]
I’m not going to lie, I skimmed most posts.
[quote]AndrewG909 wrote:
[quote]Schwarzfahrer wrote:
Baseball is not my choice of lifestyle -nttawwt- , but I do wanna help my fellow T-Nationeers so I asked google about a pitcher…[/quote]
Pssht… You have to try harder than that if you’re going to impress Lanky! He wears heels bigger than that guys cock.[/quote]
Damn straight.
[quote]jtrinsey wrote:
Pinch-Hitter: Matt Stairs (LankyMofo is nodding his head right now)
[/quote]
Lol, one of my favorite baseball moments of all time!
My all time team:
The '84 Tigers. That’s all I’d want on the field again. Lots of nostalgic throwbacks to players back in the day, but fuck it, for me the '84 Tigers were the ultimate squad. I spanked my glove on my leg like Chet Lemon, threw to first like Lou Whittaker, wore my hat like Allen Trammel, painted the outside padding of my catchers mit orange like Lance Parish, and tried to throw tantrums after striking out like Kirk Gibson.
That was my team, that is still my team. For better or worse.
[quote]jtrinsey wrote:
I can’t believe how many people have Nolan Ryan on their all-time team. I don’t even think he’s a top-20 pitcher. I guess that’s what’s so great about baseball: it’s the best sport to argue about.[/quote]
At least no one has said Stephen Strasburg.
I chose Nolan Ryan because of the amount of no hitters.
Too many players over the years to pick from. Fuck.
[quote]ADvanced TS wrote:
[quote]bluefingas wrote:
Revised List:
Closers are gay and worthless. Just sayin.
[/quote]
Tell that to Dennis Eckersley.
His moustache alone is better than anything you’ll ever accomplish in your life[/quote]
Yah, he’s cool and all. And his moustache is pretty epic.
BUT, the closer position is a joke. They get too much credit for going in and pitching one goddamn inning. They’re the DH of pitching.
[quote]jtrinsey wrote:
I can’t believe how many people have Nolan Ryan on their all-time team. I don’t even think he’s a top-20 pitcher. I guess that’s what’s so great about baseball: it’s the best sport to argue about.[/quote]
Baseball’s all-time strikeout leader and owns a major-league record seven no-hitters. At 42 years old he was still throwing a 95 mile a hour fast ball. That’s not so bad.
edit for age.
[quote]LankyMofo wrote:
Anyone that doesn’t have Babe Ruth on their list doesn’t know a damn thing about baseball.
Except jtrinsey because he obviously qualified his list with “they’d lose every game”. Although I’d put Shane Victorino in CF over Aaron Rowand.[/quote]
Meh.
Except Cy Young, I don’t feel obligated to include old school players.
Even as a life-long yankee fan, the only reason I really care about babe ruth is because of how butthurt sox fans get when you talk about him.
Old school players could not hang in the modern day. The Pirates’ 2010 single A ball team could beat any all-star team from the 20’s, end of story.
also, barry bonds is the best of all time to all you fags who didn’t put him in left.
[quote]thefederalist wrote:
Even as a life-long yankee fan, the only reason I really care about babe ruth is because of how butthurt sox fans get when you talk about him.
Old school players could not hang in the modern day. The Pirates’ 2010 single A ball team could beat any all-star team from the 20’s, end of story.
also, barry bonds is the best of all time to all you fags who didn’t put him in left. [/quote]
It’s official, you have no idea what you’re talking about.
[quote]BradTGIF wrote:
My all time team:
The '84 Tigers. That’s all I’d want on the field again. Lots of nostalgic throwbacks to players back in the day, but fuck it, for me the '84 Tigers were the ultimate squad. I spanked my glove on my leg like Chet Lemon, threw to first like Lou Whittaker, wore my hat like Allen Trammel, painted the outside padding of my catchers mit orange like Lance Parish, and tried to throw tantrums after striking out like Kirk Gibson.
That was my team, that is still my team. For better or worse.[/quote]
I <3 you.
NOt because I am a Tigers fan, but because I did the same shit, but with the sox.
[quote]thefederalist wrote:
Old school players could not hang in the modern day. The Pirates’ 2010 single A ball team could beat any all-star team from the 20’s, end of story. [/quote]
That’s a bold claim.
I don’t think it’s totally unreasonable, there’s just no way to test. I think it’s entirely possible that the '24 Yankees wouldn’t win the Carolina League. The game is different and athletes are bigger/stronger/better in every sport. In the '20s, many players didn’t even play baseball full-time, year-round, plenty of them had other jobs. And of course, no blacks, hispanics, asians, etc. Nowadays, any 10th grader with decent talent is playing year-round, has a personal coach, etc., etc. Of course, it’s also entirely possible that the '24 Yankees would beat the 2010 Yankees. I have no idea, I just know that whenever this line of discussion is brought up, at least 3 people will get way too butthurt.
P.S. I know I’m not the only one who played 1-on-1 wiffle ball with my brother AND made our sister keep the scorebook so we would know whose fictional players got more hits.
[quote]LankyMofo wrote:
[quote]thefederalist wrote:
Even as a life-long yankee fan, the only reason I really care about babe ruth is because of how butthurt sox fans get when you talk about him.
Old school players could not hang in the modern day. The Pirates’ 2010 single A ball team could beat any all-star team from the 20’s, end of story.
also, barry bonds is the best of all time to all you fags who didn’t put him in left. [/quote]
It’s official, you have no idea what you’re talking about.[/quote]
Which part don’t you agree with?
If only we had a time machine…
[quote]bluefingas wrote:
[quote]LankyMofo wrote:
[quote]thefederalist wrote:
Even as a life-long yankee fan, the only reason I really care about babe ruth is because of how butthurt sox fans get when you talk about him.
Old school players could not hang in the modern day. The Pirates’ 2010 single A ball team could beat any all-star team from the 20’s, end of story.
also, barry bonds is the best of all time to all you fags who didn’t put him in left. [/quote]
It’s official, you have no idea what you’re talking about.[/quote]
Which part don’t you agree with?
If only we had a time machine…[/quote]
Lanky, stfu. It is different in so many ways. There used to be 9 called balls per at bat, mound was virtually a hill, spit ball and scuffed ball were allowed, minimum home run distance was set at 250 feet in the 20’s, strike zone was a hallway, and until the 1890’s hitters could request a low or high pitch, a runner could steal a preceding base, batter could declare himself out on a ground ball to prevent force double play, and the list goes on.
Some of the garbage ty cobb and babe ruth were hitting wouldn’t fly in the NCAA softball world series. That stuff was soft toss. I’d love to see ty cobb running alongside Carlos Gomez or Michael Bourne. Also, Walter Johnson wouldn’t even be a mop-up pitcher on any staff today other than maybe the Orioles, forget about Cy Young.
Here’s my 25-man roster:
Pitching Staff:
RSP-Christy Matthewson
RSP-Walter Johnson
RSP-Greg Maddux
LSP-Sandy Koufax
LSP-Randy Johnson
Relief-Mariano Rivera, Dennis Eckersley, Goose Gossage, Eric Gagne (from his 80+ saves streak), Billy Wagner (need a lefty, can’t think of any others)
Center-Willie Mays
Right-Babe Ruth
Left-Barry Bonds
Catcher-Johnny Bench
Third-Mike Schmidt
Shortstop-Derek Jeter
Second-Joe Morgan
First-Lou Gehrig (lost a coin flip with Pujols)
Bench:
Ty Cobb-used primarily as a pinch runner/hitter, backup OF
Rickey Henderson–used as a pinch runner
Albert Pujols-Pinch hitter, backup 1B
Pudge (lost a coin flip with Berra) backup c, pinch-hitter
Honus Wagner-pinch hitter, backup IF
Ted Williams (DH in AL formats)
Joe Dimaggio (took him over Mantle cuz he’s a better defensive outfielder)-pinch hitter, backup OF
Lineup with DH:
Willie Mays
Ted Williams
Barry Bonds
Babe Ruth
Lou Gehrig
Mike Schmidt
Johnny Bench
Joe Morgan
Derek Jeter
I know the middle of the lineup is stacked with lefties, but these guys could all hit lefties very well. With Mays leading off (something he did often) he’s the best combo of speed and power ever, Williams in the 2-spot is always going to put the ball in play when/if he makes an out, followed by perhaps the three best lefties ever, followed by two pure righthanded powerhitters and essentially another leadoff hitter with both Morgan and Jeter in the eight/nine-spot to get on in front of Mays and Williams.
The bench is deep with power from both sides of the plate to pinch-hit, plus a good mix of speed and defense available in the OF and IF. Every player on the bench is a major game-changer in their own way, with Henderson’s and Cobb’s ability to steal and hit, clutch hitting with men on base with Pujols, Dimaggio and Wagner, and probably the best catcher this side of Bench, although Yogi Berra was just as good in my mind.
If all the players are in their prime, then the outfield is average/above average defensively with Bonds in left and average defense in right from Ruth. Good defense at 1st, absolutely hard to get better up the middle with Mays in center, Jeter and Morgan at SS/2nd and Bench calling pitches. Almost went with Brooks Robinson at 3rd for defense, but Schmidt was no hack and could hit for more power than Robinson.
The pitching rotation would go RLRLR; Walter Johnson, Sandy Koufax, Greg Maddux, Randy Johnson, Christy Matthewson. Any playoff series against this team would feature the two most dominant lefties ever (coming from totally different arm angles), arguably the most dominant hard-throwing righthander of all time (Johnson) and the two best softer-throwing righties of all-time. The opposition would face a gas-blower from a RH sidearm release, followed by another flame-thrower from the left side and right over the top, then the best control pitcher from the rightside ever, then gas from halfway between the mound and first base with Randy, and then another junker from the right side who threw from all angles. Gagne, Wagner and Gossage all coming in as 6th to 7th inning guys throwing 100+ in their primes. And Eck and Rivera to setup and close it.
My manager would be Billy Martin, strictly for the style of play he employed and not taking into account any sort of ego-managing he would have to do with Bonds, Dimaggio, Ruth, Cobb, Williams and Henderson (which he’d be absolutely horrible at most likely) or his overall success as a manager. To me, for baseball to really get exciting again, every team should play at least a moderate form of Billy Ball, and this team could do it with speed and good baserunning instincts from Mays, Bonds, Jeter and Morgan and good contact hitters with loads of power 1-5. I wish there were more teams who played with reckless abandon and put constant pressure on the defense at the plate, and especially on the basepaths, the way Martin demanded his teams play. It’d be great to see Mays on first and watch him go first to home standing up on a hit-and-run double from Williams. I’d like to see if Martin would steal with Bonds (the really fast Bonds, circa mid-90’s) with Ruth or Gehrig at the plate. Or who he’d have the balls to ask to bunt. And with Morgan and Jeter the two perfect players to play Billy Ball in front of Mays and Williams the second time thru the lineup, things could get ugly for almost any pitcher. Plus with a varied bench and bullpen like this team’s, Martin could do virtually anything he wanted in the late innings of a close game.
[quote]JackDanials wrote:
[quote]jtrinsey wrote:
I can’t believe how many people have Nolan Ryan on their all-time team. I don’t even think he’s a top-20 pitcher. I guess that’s what’s so great about baseball: it’s the best sport to argue about.[/quote]
Baseball’s all-time strikeout leader and owns a major-league record seven no-hitters. At 45 years old he was still throwing a 95 mile a hour fast ball. That’s not so bad. [/quote]
I think Nolan Ryan is overrated as a pitcher, although he is still one of the greats. But if you look at his win/loss record, if memory serves me right, he’s only about 20-30 games over .500. In a career as long as his, that’s not a big difference between wins and losses. And his ERA (around 3.5 I think) is higher than a lot of the great pitchers he’s compared to. He didn’t pitch much in the pitcher-friendly 60’s, but the 70’s and 80’s weren’t overly hitter-friendly by any means. The strikeout totals and no-hitters are amazing feats, no doubt. But a better measure of a pitcher’s success is his ERA and his winning percentage, both of which are not outstanding in Ryan’s case.
[quote]jtrinsey wrote:
[quote]thefederalist wrote:
Old school players could not hang in the modern day. The Pirates’ 2010 single A ball team could beat any all-star team from the 20’s, end of story. [/quote]
That’s a bold claim.
I don’t think it’s totally unreasonable, there’s just no way to test. I think it’s entirely possible that the '24 Yankees wouldn’t win the Carolina League. The game is different and athletes are bigger/stronger/better in every sport. In the '20s, many players didn’t even play baseball full-time, year-round, plenty of them had other jobs. And of course, no blacks, hispanics, asians, etc. Nowadays, any 10th grader with decent talent is playing year-round, has a personal coach, etc., etc. Of course, it’s also entirely possible that the '24 Yankees would beat the 2010 Yankees. I have no idea, I just know that whenever this line of discussion is brought up, at least 3 people will get way too butthurt.
P.S. I know I’m not the only one who played 1-on-1 wiffle ball with my brother AND made our sister keep the scorebook so we would know whose fictional players got more hits.[/quote]
I think the best way to evaluate players across different eras is to look at each era individually first. Who were the absolute cream of the fucking crop in their day? Who dominated their entire era, regardless of what that era was (deadball, liveball, pre-Ruth, post-Ruth, steroid era, etc.)? This really ends up boiling it all down to just a few hitters and pitchers from each time period to argue about. In the steroid era (late 80’s-early 2000’s), there’s only a few who really dominated for an extended length and can really lay claim to the title Best of Generation (Bonds, Griffey, A-Rod, maybe a couple others). Same with pitchers between late 80’s-early 2000’s. Maddux, Clemens, Johnson, Rivera and a couple others.
Then simply assume that these great players would have all come up, practiced, trained, etc. the way the players do today. That would pretty much level the playing field. If Ruth was the best hitter in his day, then if all other things were equal today, there’s no reason to think he couldn’t dominate today in much the same way he did in his heyday. Then it’s just a question of who dominated their era the most, both at their position and in general.
[quote]thefederalist wrote:
[quote]bluefingas wrote:
[quote]LankyMofo wrote:
[quote]thefederalist wrote:
Even as a life-long yankee fan, the only reason I really care about babe ruth is because of how butthurt sox fans get when you talk about him.
Old school players could not hang in the modern day. The Pirates’ 2010 single A ball team could beat any all-star team from the 20’s, end of story.
also, barry bonds is the best of all time to all you fags who didn’t put him in left. [/quote]
It’s official, you have no idea what you’re talking about.[/quote]
Which part don’t you agree with?
If only we had a time machine…[/quote]
Lanky, stfu. It is different in so many ways. There used to be 9 called balls per at bat, mound was virtually a hill, spit ball and scuffed ball were allowed, minimum home run distance was set at 250 feet in the 20’s, strike zone was a hallway, and until the 1890’s hitters could request a low or high pitch, a runner could steal a preceding base, batter could declare himself out on a ground ball to prevent force double play, and the list goes on.
Some of the garbage ty cobb and babe ruth were hitting wouldn’t fly in the NCAA softball world series. That stuff was soft toss. I’d love to see ty cobb running alongside Carlos Gomez or Michael Bourne. Also, Walter Johnson wouldn’t even be a mop-up pitcher on any staff today other than maybe the Orioles, forget about Cy Young.
[/quote]
No need to plead your case, brah. I’ve already made it official.