That’s a loaded question to begin with, but I’ll lead by saying that Donald Trump might be the most human president we’ve had to date. What are humans, if not deeply flawed beings, often with good intentions that play out over time with unintended consequences?
I’m not very good at knowing the intentions and motivations of other people. Some of you are, or at least seem to believe that you are. We are all just people, and Donald Trump is just some dude. Taken as a whole, his intentions and motivations raise far fewer of my eyebrows than the many politicians who’ve somehow become multi-millionaires through decades of public service while drawing a generous, but still modest salary.
Back to your question, well, of course he could have achieved more if he was somehow a miraculously skilled statesman, orator, decision-maker, manager, coach, empath, or whatever you wanted him to be. He’s not any of those things at all. The fact is we elected a New York City billionaire playboy who knows how to play the game of being a rich guy and TV personality.
As far as the pandemic goes, well, everyone who doesn’t like Donald Trump has just been given a bazooka. Bad things will be happening when a virus like this is unleashed upon us. That’s a guarantee. Bad outcomes always suck, we should always avoid them, but I always remember Thomas Sowell when I think about bad outcomes…
“Compared to what?”
I’ll let the mind-readers, alternate history experts and story-spinners take it from here.
I couldn’t disagree more. I don’t know a single person who acts like Trump does on a daily basis. I think the vast majority of people would seek professional help for someone that acted like him in their family. Although I will agree on the deep flaws.
Trump supporters (not saying you yourself are one) like to talk about how much credit he should get for not being like other politicians and it’s moronic. “I’m glad we finally have a President who can’t think before he speaks! Sure is nice to have a President who won’t listen to advice! Glad we finally got someone who can tweet about TV talk shows! Those other politicians spoke nicely about women. Glad he’s not doing that!” Seems like the most bizarre thing to give a person credit for.
I’m all for not having a typical politician. But is it too much to ask for a rational adult if we go that route?
Yes. But my answer was based on your question about how his behavior lead to outcomes. I’m not trying to make Trump into something he’s not. You asked how his mental instability and behavior had an impact on his outcomes and I answered.
Indeed. I don’t really remember the people who didn’t like President Obama and pointing out how the national debt increased saying “now wait a second he inherited two wars and a massive recession.” We had people on here who criticized him hardcore and often. Which is fine. But I don’t really remember those being nuanced or taking into consideration what he faced.
I have always said we never know what would happen. But I believe we were already talking about alternative scenarios with other Presidents.
You can probably call me one at this point. I’d rather not gamble on Biden. That’s not a position that should require a whole lot of explanation. Unless some other option should emerge, I’m all aboard the Trump Train. I’m sending you smarter folk down the road to ruin, and polishing my guns and sharpening my knives in front of Fox News while I do it. Yeah buddy.
Unless…
You can talk me into how things might’ve been, or might be if we’ve got Joe Biden in office, wrapping a chain around the Coronapop’s neck. Or maybe if we’d had Hillary in office. What do you believe she might have done differently, gifted leader that she is?
I’m all ears. Explain the appeal of Democratic Leadership.
Do you think anyone (Dem or Republican is irrelevant) would be as erratic as Trump? At the national level? If you picked a name out of a hat of say all the members of Congress. How many of them would be as mentally unstable as Trump? How many less in control of their emotions, less likely to listen to advisors, etc. I’m sure we could come up with some other people who may be in the ballpark. But ignoring just specific positions we don’t like?
I’m not jumping up and down to defend Biden. He has plenty of issues and his own mental ones as well. Hell we even have evidence of him showing some of the same type of negative behavior Trump has!
The difference is that’s Trump 24/7. It’s like the sun rising in the East. You know everyday you’re getting pure lunacy cranked to 11. Biden may have the same pure lunacy issues from time to time no doubt. But no one can even remotely keep up with Trump in that area. He’s an absolute machine when it comes down to it.
I’m not even fighting you on the Biden sucks part. Seems like Democrats could do better than to make him their candidate for 2020. But in no possible scenario can anyone that I know touch Trump in the political sphere of non stop lunacy. For the examples people can come up with for every other politician out there Trump has about 14 million more examples of the same thing. He’s truly untouchable in that regard.
She’d have someone on the ground in Wuhan in December, for starters.
For all her faults, “unprepared” is not one of them, unlike the guy who actively avoids the facts as not to interfere with his gut feeling.
In those crucial three weeks Trump was blindly following both the CCP and the WHO.
He was lazy and probably bored - viruses cannot be bullied on twitter and therefore cannot elicit an appropriate reaction with the base.
The first superspreader came to Munich, Germany on January 24th.EU countries were vacilitating and introduced piecemal actions - ironically Italy was the first country to ban flights from China, before the US.
Had the US/EU cut flights from China at the same time CCP banned domestic flights from Wuhan none of this would have happened.
I’m sure HRC, with her obsession with intelligence and courses of action would have cut those flights.
*Cornpop’s head
I can’t blame you for making the “neck” mistake, since wrapping a chain around someone’s head really makes no sense. And Coronapop is also a good name.
Or how he and his Administration maneuvered us out of what was bordering on a Worldwide depression…
@H_factor…this is my point exactly…and is why I will continue to point out the hypocrisy of Conservatives; especially over the past almost 12-plus years; probably until I die.
You are “supposed” to support “your” President, or family or Tribe Member, or Football team…whatever…but the 360 that Conservatives took in the way that they judge Trump vs the way that they judged President Obama is not only nauseating…it is almost unforgivable (IMO)…when Trump gets a pass on things that would have had President Obama hanging from the White House. And not only get a pass…gets cheered and applauded for acting like the narcissistic sociopath he is.
This next election (which I am on record as saying Trump will win), does little to add to the feelings I have…except that I will have to endure the hypocrisy for 4 more years.
And I am also on record as saying that if Biden and Trump are our choices…then we really have no choices…and I will exercise my Constitutional right to sit this one out.
Probably even more, and his words aren’t even made up of real letters. And he doesn’t even respect the cornerstone of modern America: the 10th Amendment.
I absolutely despise Hillary, and just about all of her domestic policies, but I will 100% agree with this right here.
I don’t know that she would have cut the EU flights. However I DO think she would have made sure to increase production of PPE, ventilators, and check the national stockpile much much quicker…say, in the 4-6 weeks of downtime we had before it took off in the US I also think she would have been on board the testing train earlier, and would have actively supported the subject matter experts. I do think she would have set up testing sites at international airports sooner, and accepted the WHO’s early testing kits. Even poor tests are better than no tests at all.
I do not think any Western politician had a great response to the virus. The point was made elsewhere that virus pandemics don’t operate on a re-election timeline–they are by definition rare. As such it is very easy to downplay or ignore warning signs. I think any politician would have made significant mistakes, and they all did. Except perhaps for S. Korea, Singapore, Tawian, etc. which had to deal with SARS earlier.
You’ve brought up Cornpop a whole bunch and Trump’s stories well…they have been defended often by you. Or minimized however you want to call it. From what I can tell the details of Biden remembering a story from over 50 years ago are very important. Maybe I’m just missing out on the big picture.
At least you can find evidence that Biden has some truth in his. Where can you find that about Trump’s tales? You know the ones that have been coming out of his mouth not 50 years ago but the last 5? Actual lies and corruption from current President? Not worth your time. Story from 50 years ago with some inaccuracies are apparently much more important.
It isn’t Republican Leadership. Normally, I don’t like that as a reason, but when the report card is this bad for Republican Leadership, it’s time to retire it on that reason alone. Biden and Co. won’t be perfect, but at least their mistakes will be in the normal realm of screw-ups (trying to to do the right thing in the midst of incomplete information and tough trade-offs) and the not the result of abject laziness, pettiness, ignorance, arrogance, and mendacity.
And for those struggling to see what a failure Trump has been, imagine it this way - America is a big corporation amd Trump is the CEO. The pandemic threatens the business - threatens the labor pool, supply chains, revenue, profitability, all of it. Trump, as CEO, acts the way he has in response: at first not taking it seriously, lack of planning, laziness, then wildly inconsistent positions, scapegoating and infighting with regional vice presidents, refusing to listen to subject matter experts to course correct, and on and on and on.
How do you think the shareholders would be feeling right now?
Is there anyone who thinks the Board of Directors would keep this guy on the job after that performance for the business?
In part, literally planning for and dealing with COVID-19 as it relates to the business and industry I’m in.
And I’ve been talking to and working with a lot of leaders during this (a lot of sharing best practices, etc.), and from exec types to middle management, I can tell you to a man and woman (in my sample of experience), their basic leadership competence is light years ahead of “the businessman” in the Oval Office.