What if Christians are Wrong?

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
341

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
I suspect I have read far more non and anti-Christian literature than you have.[/quote]

That’s entirely possible.

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
I know exactly why I believe what I do and exactly why I don’t what I don’t.[/quote]

As do I

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
You’re gittin pretty stodgy and cantankerous in yer old age there bub. Wadda you care what we think? Oh yeah, we influence policy. Newsflash. In the beginning of this nation we WERE policy. It is YOUR influence that is rotting it to death.[/quote]

No, that’s absolutely false. The founding fathers were not so pious, as a whole, as christian apologists would have you believe. The US was in no way shape or form, founded as a christian nation.

“The government of the United States is not in any sense founded on the Christian Religion”
-George Washington

“If I could conceive that the general government might ever be so administered as to render the liberty of conscience insecure, I beg you will be persuaded, that no one would be more zealous than myself to establish effectual barriers against the horrors of spiritual tyranny, and every species of religious persecution.” -George Washington

“Washington’s religious belief was that of the enlightenment: deism. He practically never used the word ‘God,’ preferring the more impersonal word ‘Providence.’ How little he visualized Providence in personal form is shown by the fact that he interchangeably applied to that force all three possible pronouns: he, she, and it.” – James Thomas Flexner, in George Washington: Anguish and Farewell (1793-1799) (1972) p. 490, quoted from Ed and Michael Buckner, “Quotations that Support the Separation of State and Church”

"The founders of our nation were nearly all Infidels, and that of the presidents who had thus far been elected [Washington; Adams; Jefferson; Madison; Monroe; Adams; Jackson] not a one had professed a belief in Christianity…“Among all our presidents from Washington downward, not one was a professor of religion, at least not of more than Unitarianism.”
– The Reverend Doctor Bird Wilson, an Episcopal minister in Albany, New York, in a sermon preached in October, 1831, first sentence quoted in John E Remsberg, Six Historic Americans, second sentence quoted in Paul F Boller, George Washington & Religion, pp. 14-15

342

[quote]Headhunter wrote:

[quote]bigflamer wrote:

[quote]pat wrote:
It is a silly fiction, it requires belief in something from nothing. It requires belief in randomness.[/quote]

Thanks for illustrating your willful ignorance of atheism.

[quote]Pat wrote:
They way dumber that believing in virgin birth, or transubstantiation. How do you know it didn’t happen? Where you there?[/quote]

Awesome, haven’t heard this defense of patently stupid shit since fourth or fifth grade. LOL

Pat: “Jesus walked on water, and Moses talked to a burning bush, and Mary birthed jesus without having sex”

Atheist: “Yea, I highly doubt that.”

Pat: “How do you know!? You weren’t there!”

Atheist: “Were you?”
[/quote]

Trib is in Michigan and so are you. Are you the sane brother or something?

I own (partly) a pretty good sized orchard over by Benton Harbor btw. Lots of the crop got destroyed this year; glad the guy I bought it with bought crop insurance.

Guess God hates the fruit farmers this year.
[/quote]

Tirib and I are at opposite ends of this great state, and opposite ends of faith it would seem. Ironic as it is, I’m the one that’s stuck in Michigan’s crazy bible belt. Some areas are ridiculous; dirty looks from your neighbors for mowing your grass and whatnot on a Sunday. LOL…West Michigan is certainly high on Jesus.

343

[quote]Headhunter wrote:

[quote]bigflamer wrote:

[quote]pat wrote:
It is a silly fiction, it requires belief in something from nothing. It requires belief in randomness.[/quote]

Thanks for illustrating your willful ignorance of atheism.

[quote]Pat wrote:
They way dumber that believing in virgin birth, or transubstantiation. How do you know it didn’t happen? Where you there?[/quote]

Awesome, haven’t heard this defense of patently stupid shit since fourth or fifth grade. LOL

Pat: “Jesus walked on water, and Moses talked to a burning bush, and Mary birthed jesus without having sex”

Atheist: “Yea, I highly doubt that.”

Pat: “How do you know!? You weren’t there!”

Atheist: “Were you?”
[/quote]

I own (partly) a pretty good sized orchard over by Benton Harbor btw. Lots of the crop got destroyed this year; glad the guy I bought it with bought crop insurance.

Guess God hates the fruit farmers this year.[/quote]

Yea, crops are getting hit hard this year. The farmers market by my fire station is WAY down w/r/t farmers selling.

God must be punishing those hard working farmers for some obscure sin, or perhaps their prayers were insufficient. Perhaps you could try a rain dance?? LOL

344

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:

[quote]bigflamer wrote:<<< In all sincerity, I think sometimes that it’s hard for a believer to wrap their head around the idea of no belief; not just disbelief in the christian god, but absolute disbelief in ANY sort of diety.

Atheism is not a belief, it’s the absence of belief.[/quote]Let God be true and every man a liar. (That’s a quote from Romans 3 Sparky and yes another generality your majesty KK =] ) HE says you DO believe and not just in any ol God either, in Him. You suppress that truth, you hold it out of view in your sin to comfort yourself with an imagined escape from His grasp which is not in any way possible. Every breath you take testifies to YOU that He is there and you are guilty. You are however a dead man where this creator of yours is concerned. You at once CANNOT avoid Him and yet REFUSE to see Him. It’s torturous man I know. I was once there. You would dare I say be easy pickins in the epistemology thread Sparky. Not because you’re an imbecile. Because you have not thought this through very well.
[/quote]

Sorry Tirib, but there is no god. Go ahead and relax. There is no heaven, nor any lake of fire awaiting for you, my friend. Enjoy the love of your family and friends while you’re still on the right side of the grass, it is what is real.

345

Pretty much…

346

[quote]Headhunter wrote:<<< Is your church one of those places where some people voluntarily came there and can sign out, while others have to be there, to prevent them from harming themselves or others?
[/quote] Nobody will attempt to keep you there against your will. You will be free to go on harming yourself all you want =] [quote]bigflamer wrote:<<< The US was in no way shape or form, founded as a christian nation. >>>[/quote] That’s not exactly what I said for the 10,000th time. Keep readin Sparky. Guys just like me were all over the 1st constitutional convention. [quote]bigflamer wrote:<<< dirty looks from your neighbors for mowing your grass and whatnot on a Sunday. LOL…West Michigan is certainly high on Jesus.[/quote] Anyone doing this is not high on Jesus. They’re high on themselves.[quote]bigflamer wrote:<<< right side of the grass, >>>[/quote]LOL!! Very good Sparky LOL!!!

347

[quote]Severiano wrote:

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]Severiano wrote:
Look at all the judges on here. According to them they seem to know Gods will, even though it is very clear that we are not to judge, but God is in their holy book.

Anyhow, I don’t know if I’d want to go to a place to be with a creator that cast someone like Gandhi into hell. If that’s how it is, that’s not a god worthy of worship. [/quote]

Where is that in the Bible?[/quote]

Luke 6:37.

As for the hell thing, it’s more a reference to your crusader friend, “While your average decent suburbanite church going shlub goes to hell trusting his charitable giving and “good” life.”

How is it we are not to judge, then we can go judge that others will go to hell. Isn’t that specifically reserved for Gods judgement? [/quote]

Hahn says, We are not to judge other’s faults, we do not have the capability to judge because of our own fairness and accuracy…as only God alone knows the heart. However, we are commanded to use critical discernment. So, as not to profane what is holy and embrace what is false.

I did not see anyone judging anyone’s faults.

348

Deuteronomy 15:6: “Thou shalt lend unto many nations, but thou shalt not borrow; and thou shalt reign over many nations, but they shalt not reign over thee.”

Seeing how the Bible tells Jews how to conquer the world, I think we can conclude that the whole thing is simply evil.

349

[quote]Headhunter wrote:
Deuteronomy 15:6: “Thou shalt lend unto many nations, but thou shalt not borrow; and thou shalt reign over many nations, but they shalt not reign over thee.”

Seeing how the Bible tells Jews how to conquer the world, I think we can conclude that the whole thing is simply evil.[/quote]It’s almost impossible for me to believe that my beautiful Jesus is not drawing you home man. LOL!! If you think I’m just taunting you, you’re wrong. You’re a smart guy and this what you’re reduced to? I won’t even tell anybody here if you come to church with us. They don’t need to know.

350

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:

[quote]Headhunter wrote:
Deuteronomy 15:6: “Thou shalt lend unto many nations, but thou shalt not borrow; and thou shalt reign over many nations, but they shalt not reign over thee.”

Seeing how the Bible tells Jews how to conquer the world, I think we can conclude that the whole thing is simply evil.[/quote]It’s almost impossible for me to believe that my beautiful Jesus is not drawing you home man. LOL!! If you think I’m just taunting you, you’re wrong. You’re a smart guy and this what you’re reduced to? I won’t even tell anybody here if you come to church with us. They don’t need to know.
[/quote]

  1. Do you believe in the Old Testament?
  2. Do you believe that we should follow God’s dictates?

If so, you must try to rule the world. The Holy Men and Women of the Bible (see the Deut I posted) ordered you and they were inspired by God.

Say, if God spoke to those holy people, how do we know that God didn’t speak to Richard Dawkins?

351

[quote]Headhunter wrote:

  1. Do you believe in the Old Testament?
  2. Do you believe that we should follow God’s dictates?

If so, you must try to rule the world. The Holy Men and Women of the Bible (see the Deut I posted) ordered you and they were inspired by God.

Say, if God spoke to those holy people, how do we know that God didn’t speak to Richard Dawkins?
[/quote]Lemme know when you are actually interested in answers to these questions. You really don’t know a thing about Christianity or the bible dude.

352

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]Severiano wrote:

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]Severiano wrote:
Look at all the judges on here. According to them they seem to know Gods will, even though it is very clear that we are not to judge, but God is in their holy book.

Anyhow, I don’t know if I’d want to go to a place to be with a creator that cast someone like Gandhi into hell. If that’s how it is, that’s not a god worthy of worship. [/quote]

Where is that in the Bible?[/quote]

Luke 6:37.

As for the hell thing, it’s more a reference to your crusader friend, “While your average decent suburbanite church going shlub goes to hell trusting his charitable giving and “good” life.”

How is it we are not to judge, then we can go judge that others will go to hell. Isn’t that specifically reserved for Gods judgement? [/quote]

Hahn says, We are not to judge other’s faults, we do not have the capability to judge because of our own fairness and accuracy…as only God alone knows the heart. However, we are commanded to use critical discernment. So, as not to profane what is holy and embrace what is false.

I did not see anyone judging anyone’s faults.[/quote]

Tirib was clearly judging people’s faults. From what I can tell he has a set of rules which set up a dichotomy, of false dilemma. It is clearly uncompromising, black and white rules. He goes beyond saying you are doing it wrong, he says if you do it wrong you go to hell.

I believe there is a difference between the ability to discern between right and wrong, and actually passing judgement on another person. They are closely related, but different as I hope to have illustrated.

�¢??Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother�¢??s eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye?"

The way I interpret this is perhaps a bit different. The plank is something that is likely obvious to others, that we may not be aware of or in denial of. In order to be aware of it, we need to inflect, be completely and critically honest with ourselves in order to fix our flaws before we can be critical of the flaws of others. A problem also remains, we may not be fully aware of our flaws even if we give ourselves an honest assessment, that is the problem of denial and ignorance. Even if we were flawless, we wouldn’t know :slight_smile:

Who is flawless and knows it in Christian doctrine? Well, the one who is flawless is the one who judges.

353

[quote]Severiano wrote:<<< Tirib was clearly judging people’s faults. From what I can tell he has a set of rules which set up a dichotomy, of false dilemma. It is clearly uncompromising, black and white rules. He goes beyond saying you are doing it wrong, he says if you do it wrong you go to hell. >>>[/quote]1 John 3:4-10[quote]4-Everyone who makes a practice of sinning also practices lawlessness; sin is lawlessness. 5-You know that he appeared to take away sins, and in him there is no sin. 6-No one who abides in him keeps on sinning; no one who keeps on sinning has either seen him or known him. 7-Little children, let no one deceive you. Whoever practices righteousness is righteous, as he is righteous. 8-Whoever makes a practice of sinning is of the devil, for the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the works of the devil. 9-No one born of God makes a practice of sinning, for Godâ??s seed abides in him, and he cannot keep on sinning because he has been born of God. 10-By this it is evident who are the children of God, and who are the children of the devil: whoever does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor is the one who does not love his brother.[/quote]Trust me on this. There is some explanation required, but Christians are commanded TO judge with righteous judgement. The trouble in the church today is an almost total absence of this righteous judgement that we commanded to carry out. For the record I make no pronouncements on any person’s final destiny. I take universally recognized biblical principles (or what used to be anyway) and apply them to people starting with myself. Paul named 8 people by name int he new testament and commanded that they be rejected on various grounds that he gives us to follow.

He rebukes the Corinthians (1st letter 5th chapter) for failing to judge those in their midst, giving a representative list of flagrantly practiced sins and commands “not even to eat with such a one”. He doesn’t say that he should judge. He rhetorically asks them “are YOU not to judge those inside the church”. Those claiming to be Christians? The whole “judge not” perversion is a lie designed to recreate the church in the world’s image and boy has it ever been successful. It’s a modern Americanism wholly foreign to the holy bible.

354

[quote]Headhunter wrote:

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:

[quote]Headhunter wrote:
Deuteronomy 15:6: “Thou shalt lend unto many nations, but thou shalt not borrow; and thou shalt reign over many nations, but they shalt not reign over thee.”

Seeing how the Bible tells Jews how to conquer the world, I think we can conclude that the whole thing is simply evil.[/quote]It’s almost impossible for me to believe that my beautiful Jesus is not drawing you home man. LOL!! If you think I’m just taunting you, you’re wrong. You’re a smart guy and this what you’re reduced to? I won’t even tell anybody here if you come to church with us. They don’t need to know.
[/quote]

  1. Do you believe in the Old Testament?
  2. Do you believe that we should follow God’s dictates?

If so, you must try to rule the world. The Holy Men and Women of the Bible (see the Deut I posted) ordered you and they were inspired by God.

Say, if God spoke to those holy people, how do we know that God didn’t speak to Richard Dawkins?
[/quote]

Once again, you show tremendous carelessness. Deut. 15:6 is part of a blessing formula, not a command formula. The part of Deut. 15:6 that you CONVENIENTLY left out clearly implies that what you mistakenly took as a command is actually an expansion and explanation of the first clause.

Here, I’ll provide a literal translation from the Hebrew and INCLUDE the part of the passage you CONVENIENTLY left out…

Deut. 15:6 - “For Yahweh your God will bless you, just as he told you, so that you will lend to many nations, and you will not borrow, and you will rule over many nations, but they will not rule over you.”

Next time, use a more accurate translation, or stop pretending to be a scholar. Real scholars are actually familiar with the views of their opponents.

355

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:

[quote]Severiano wrote:<<< Tirib was clearly judging people’s faults. From what I can tell he has a set of rules which set up a dichotomy, of false dilemma. It is clearly uncompromising, black and white rules. He goes beyond saying you are doing it wrong, he says if you do it wrong you go to hell. >>>[/quote]1 John 3:4-10[quote]4-Everyone who makes a practice of sinning also practices lawlessness; sin is lawlessness. 5-You know that he appeared to take away sins, and in him there is no sin. 6-No one who abides in him keeps on sinning; no one who keeps on sinning has either seen him or known him. 7-Little children, let no one deceive you. Whoever practices righteousness is righteous, as he is righteous. 8-Whoever makes a practice of sinning is of the devil, for the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the works of the devil. 9-No one born of God makes a practice of sinning, for GodÃ??Ã?¢??s seed abides in him, and he cannot keep on sinning because he has been born of God. 10-By this it is evident who are the children of God, and who are the children of the devil: whoever does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor is the one who does not love his brother.[/quote]Trust me on this. There is some explanation required, but Christians are commanded TO judge with righteous judgement. The trouble in the church today is an almost total absence of this righteous judgement that we commanded to carry out. For the record I make no pronouncements on any person’s final destiny. I take universally recognized biblical principles (or what used to be anyway) and apply them to people starting with myself. Paul named 8 people by name int he new testament and commanded that they be rejected on various grounds that he gives us to follow.

He rebukes the Corinthians (1st letter 5th chapter) for failing to judge those in their midst, giving a representative list of flagrantly practiced sins and commands “not even to eat with such a one”. He doesn’t say that he should judge. He rhetorically asks them “are YOU not to judge those inside the church”. Those claiming to be Christians? The whole “judge not” perversion is a lie designed to recreate the church in the world’s image and boy has it ever been successful. It’s a modern Americanism wholly foreign to the holy bible.
[/quote]

Like I said, you have a Crusaders belief in Christianity, which is sort of odd. The same sort of Christians wiped out other sects of Christianity in the past with violence because they interpreted things differently. How do we really know which interpretation is right, and which one is wrong? You can’t have it both ways man, you said people go to hell for this and that and then all of a sudden you say it is actually up to God.

Lawlessness sin is lawlessness doesn’t actually make an attempt at describing what sin actually is. This isn’t to say that the 10 commandments don’t apply. Understanding, “Thou shalt not kill” seems to be pretty straight forward but who’s hands are really clean in this case? If someone in charge commands a lesser to commit a killing via implicit command (like gesturing or pointing a finger) they are both responsible for it no? You know what happened to heretics in the past? You know who implicitly commanded their killings? I guess faith is the justification…?!?

And what is a heretic anyhow? What if you were born in Saudi Arabia and raised Islamic and were all in, in terms of that faith? What if you were raised as a gnostic back during the times when they were persecuted and considered heretics? Luck of the draw I guess, that doesn’t seem morally justifiable to me. But, then again I know nothing about it. :slight_smile:

Which heretic will you be voting for :slight_smile: Yeah fun loaded question, but something to think about.

356

[quote]bigflamer wrote:

[quote]pat wrote:

[quote]bigflamer wrote:

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]bigflamer wrote:

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]bigflamer wrote:
Ahhhh yes, traditional marriage, as defined by the “good book”.[/quote]

Great, reductionism. It’s like I’m talking to a fundamentalist now. http://www.patheos.com/blogs/standingonmyhead/2012/06/ridicule-reductionism-ridicule-and-red-herrings.html [/quote]

Hey, I’m just quoting for you what your holy book says. Not my fault that it says the awful shit that it says.

Words mean things, and it says what it says. Christians seem to spend ALOT of time trying to justify and argue away what’s written in the bible.

[/quote]

Great point, “Words mean things.” Then you turn around and get upset that Christians try and make distinctions and put things into context. Strange fellow you are. I think that’s called hypocrisy when you have a double standard. [/quote]

No, what most christians are guilty of, is spin, not contextual explanation. This is why your bible has “evolved” over the years with new interpretations and such. What version of the bible do you subscribe to? Isn’t there like 26 versions of it?

And when a christian comes along saying that the bible says what it says, then you’ll denounce them as “fundamentalist”.

LOL…Trying to apologize and spin away the shit in the bible must be what it’s like as a PR person in charge of handling Joe Biden. “No no, what Biden really meant was…”
[/quote]

What most atheists are guilty of is tortured reasoning and an utter lack of reason and logic…The sad part is they think they have it, but they cannot reason anything to it’s logical end, because their logic fails. It’s all ego in the end.[/quote]

Yea, that’s it, the ATHEISTS just aren’t big fans of reason and logic. Tell me again about the talking snake…
[/quote]
Sure, when you tell me how nothing makes something.

Why are you interested in it if you think it’s so stupid… Things I think are stupid I don’t waste my time with. Is there a ‘love for stupidity’ gene in the atheist brain? Must be.

357

[quote]bigflamer wrote:

[quote]pat wrote:

[quote]bigflamer wrote:

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]bigflamer wrote:

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]bigflamer wrote:
Ahhhh yes, traditional marriage, as defined by the “good book”.[/quote]

Great, reductionism. It’s like I’m talking to a fundamentalist now. http://www.patheos.com/blogs/standingonmyhead/2012/06/ridicule-reductionism-ridicule-and-red-herrings.html [/quote]

Hey, I’m just quoting for you what your holy book says. Not my fault that it says the awful shit that it says.

Words mean things, and it says what it says. Christians seem to spend ALOT of time trying to justify and argue away what’s written in the bible.

[/quote]

Great point, “Words mean things.” Then you turn around and get upset that Christians try and make distinctions and put things into context. Strange fellow you are. I think that’s called hypocrisy when you have a double standard. [/quote]

No, what most christians are guilty of, is spin, not contextual explanation. This is why your bible has “evolved” over the years with new interpretations and such. What version of the bible do you subscribe to? Isn’t there like 26 versions of it?

And when a christian comes along saying that the bible says what it says, then you’ll denounce them as “fundamentalist”.

LOL…Trying to apologize and spin away the shit in the bible must be what it’s like as a PR person in charge of handling Joe Biden. “No no, what Biden really meant was…”
[/quote]

I think it’s hilarious when people who have never read the bible try to claim to know what the bible says! LOL!

Hey I never read ‘War and Peace’ but I know it talks about war!

You should do a book club with the rule that you don’t actually read the books, then talk about the books with authority! That will make you look like a fucking genius![/quote]

I think it’s hilarious how upset christians get when atheists point out all the immoral, evil verses in the bible. First thing out of their mouth; “you don’t undersand it!”, or “that’s out of context!”

I also think it’s hilarious that you’re constantly accusing atheists of not understanding christianity, when you clearly do not understand atheism. At least atheists read the holy books of many religions; they make an effort to understand the minds of the religious. How many atheist authors have you read?
[/quote]

I have actually studied quite a few since philosophy was a formal study, I was require to study atheists and theists alike. Hume was my favorite atheist of all time.
That being said, what I don’t claim is intricate knowledge of books I didn’t read, which is what you are doing.
Refuting atheist philosophy is not a challenge for me, I have been doing it for many years…
Bring your freshest thinking, I will cheerfully explain why you’re wrong. All of this shit is nothing new, it is in fact very old, actually it’s eternal if you understand anything about metaphysics.

358

[quote]bigflamer wrote:

[quote]pat wrote:
It is a silly fiction, it requires belief in something from nothing. It requires belief in randomness.[/quote]

Thanks for illustrating your willful ignorance of atheism.
[/quote]
Prove me wrong… We’ve been over this, remember. Kicking the metaphysical can down the road doesn’t solve the problem, neither does introducing strawmen, which is what you did previously.
So if you got a new incorrect theory, I’d love to hear it.

No I wasn’t, but I am not claiming everything I didn’t perceive with my 5 senses isn’t true. Truth is you accept all of history based on hearsay. So you can’t really know anything you weren’t present for. And you cannot prove anything you were present for is a complete delusion. There is very little you can actually know. If you did any real study on the matter, you’d know that.

359

[quote]Severiano wrote:<<< Which heretic will you be voting for :slight_smile: Yeah fun loaded question, but something to think about. [/quote]Romney who IS a heretic. As for the rest of your post? I am juggling way too many conversations already. You continue to display almost no knowledge of the historic gospel of Jesus Christ. Here’s a clue though. There is no such thing as luck. Not one atom in all the vast cosmos dare twitch apart from the all governing decree of the God I serve.

360

[quote]KingKai25 wrote:

[quote]Headhunter wrote:

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:

[quote]Headhunter wrote:
Deuteronomy 15:6: “Thou shalt lend unto many nations, but thou shalt not borrow; and thou shalt reign over many nations, but they shalt not reign over thee.”

Seeing how the Bible tells Jews how to conquer the world, I think we can conclude that the whole thing is simply evil.[/quote]It’s almost impossible for me to believe that my beautiful Jesus is not drawing you home man. LOL!! If you think I’m just taunting you, you’re wrong. You’re a smart guy and this what you’re reduced to? I won’t even tell anybody here if you come to church with us. They don’t need to know.
[/quote]

  1. Do you believe in the Old Testament?
  2. Do you believe that we should follow God’s dictates?

If so, you must try to rule the world. The Holy Men and Women of the Bible (see the Deut I posted) ordered you and they were inspired by God.

Say, if God spoke to those holy people, how do we know that God didn’t speak to Richard Dawkins?
[/quote]

Once again, you show tremendous carelessness. Deut. 15:6 is part of a blessing formula, not a command formula. The part of Deut. 15:6 that you CONVENIENTLY left out clearly implies that what you mistakenly took as a command is actually an expansion and explanation of the first clause.

Here, I’ll provide a literal translation from the Hebrew and INCLUDE the part of the passage you CONVENIENTLY left out…

Deut. 15:6 - “For Yahweh your God will bless you, just as he told you, so that you will lend to many nations, and you will not borrow, and you will rule over many nations, but they will not rule over you.”

Next time, use a more accurate translation, or stop pretending to be a scholar. Real scholars are actually familiar with the views of their opponents.[/quote]

So…Yahweh blesses you so that you’ll have a lot of money. You should lend this out so that you can rule others. Uhhhh…okay…

If Yahweh blesses me with money, why would Yahweh also tell me to never borrow? Why would I need borrow if Yahweh (like Obama) gives me money ‘from his stash’?

LOLOLOLOLOLOL!!