What Happened in the Ukraine?

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
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[quote]Gkhan wrote:

[quote]Bismark wrote:

We are discussing the Russian Federation, not the Soviet Union of the Cold War, which was characterized by bipolarity. Again, you’ve demonstrated that you don’t understand a very basic concept in international relations - the security dilemma .
[/quote]

Aragorn, I am not saying the Russians parking their ships in Cuba today is another Cuban Missile Crisis.

We have people on this thread comparing The Russian Federation to Nazi Germany, a fair comparison by my standards, but in your opinion, is this not a valid comparison because Nazi Germany is not in existnence today? Is that enough to make it not valid?
[/quote]

That is only the tip of the iceberg friend. The entire world has changed. The entire scope of commerce, of economic fortunes, of service and goods, war and destruction, technology, everything has changed. It is a completely different political landscape and you can no more compare Russia now with Nazi Germany than you could say, the IRC tax code now with that of 60 years ago as beans is fond of pointing out.

Russia has interests in Ukraine. They have a strong political hand to play their game there, they know it and we know it and the EU knows it. It is a pragmatic move on their part based on their historical needs for Black Sea access and other things. Hitler’s gaming of the concessions prior to the outbreak of WWII was not. It was essentially trying to buy as much time as possible before actual bullets started whizzing to better position their military for strikes.

Further Russia today has nothing like the government of Nazi Germany, they live in a multipolar world and they are not looking to make conquest of their entire neighbors. What they would probably like to do is consolidate their power politically with their neighbors (similar to an EU in many respects), which Putin has openly commented on. This, however, is not something you get by conquering all of your neighbors but rather by wielding political power and consolidating them.

Putin’s outlook is pure pragmatism, Hitler was not pragmatic in the international relations realm. He instead was always bent on conquest and he drove a state machine that had already primed its population for war.

Other people could probably articulate much more clearly and perhaps more fully.

323

German Ambassador compares Russian Federation to Nazi Germany.

Now, it’s unlikely HE doesn’t know what he’s talking about.

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“What can one advise our U.S. colleagues to do? Spend more time in the open, practice yoga, stick to food-combining diets, maybe watch some comedy sketch shows on TV,” Deputy Foreign Minister Sergei Ryabkov told Interfax news agency."

The Russian Deputy Foreign Minister Sergei Ryabkov has had too much borscht and vodka.

From the article:

“Russia accused the West of orchestrating the “coup” against Yanukovich, and some analysts say the Crimea annexation was Putin’s punishment of the West for ignoring Moscow’s interest in the former Soviet republic that it considers to be its backyard.”

What about the invasion of Georgia? Or the Caucasus.?..No naval base in either of those 2 countries…I am wondering what kind of a security dilemma this is creating for the rest of the the former Soviet Republics? If I were them, I’d be concerned.

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[quote]Bismark wrote:

We are discussing the Russian Federation, not the Soviet Union of the Cold War, which was characterized by bipolarity…
[/quote]

Russia uses its veto power at the general assembly to stifle the interests of the west and former Warsaw Pact countries just as the Soviet Union did. It also supports anti-western regimes around the globe and has expansionistic ambitions beyond anything Khruschev ever considered. One could argue there is more bipolarity now than at any time since the Cuban missile crisis.

327

[quote]SexMachine wrote:

[quote]Bismark wrote:

We are discussing the Russian Federation, not the Soviet Union of the Cold War, which was characterized by bipolarity…
[/quote]

Russia uses its veto power at the general assembly to stifle the interests of the west and former Warsaw Pact countries just as the Soviet Union did. It also supports anti-western regimes around the globe and has expansionistic ambitions beyond anything Khruschev ever considered. One could argue there is more bipolarity now than at any time since the Cuban missile crisis.[/quote]

Exactly

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Only if one doesn’t understand the concept of polarity in international relations. You’d be hard pressed to find any scholar, reputable or otherwise, that would make such a claim. Russia certainly doesn’t enjoy the same share of material or latent power it did during the Cold War. It is a great power, but clearly not superpower.

329

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]Aragorn wrote:

Putin’s outlook is pure pragmatism…

[/quote]

I’d be willing to place a wager that you’re dead wrong here. Ten years from now or less, I’m thinking, and you’ll have to eat these words.

Wanna bet?
[/quote]

My favorite Putin quote in response to Hillary Clinton’s comment that he has ‘no soul’. “At least the state figure should have a head.”

Why do you say this? Vladimir is the greatest 19th century practitioner of Realpolitik in the 21st century.

330

[quote]Gkhan wrote:

[quote]Bismark wrote:
The expansion of NATO towards the heartland of a diminished Russia created a new security dilemma for Moscow…[/quote]

But the fact that we have Russian ships parked in Cuba and Venezuela and this is not seen as expansion of Russian power towards the heartland of the United States is ludicrous.[/quote]

I’d like you to define the security dilemma, and then attempt to cogently apply the concept to a couple of distantly deployed rust buckets within the hemispheric waters of the world’s lone regional hegemon in the United States.

332

[quote]Gkhan wrote:

German Ambassador compares Russian Federation to Nazi Germany.

Now, it’s unlikely HE doesn’t know what he’s talking about.[/quote]

Not only is this hyperbole, but it’s poor logic.

Hitler had an aggressive foreign policy.
Putin has an aggressive foreign policy.
Therefore, Putin is Hitler

The Russian Federation simply does not have the same material or latent power that 1939 Nazi Germany did, who qualified as a potential hegemon.

334

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]Bismark wrote:

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]Aragorn wrote:

Putin’s outlook is pure pragmatism…

[/quote]

I’d be willing to place a wager that you’re dead wrong here. Ten years from now or less, I’m thinking, and you’ll have to eat these words.

Wanna bet?
[/quote]

My favorite Putin quote in response to Hillary Clinton’s comment that he has ‘no soul’. “At least the state figure should have a head.”

Why do you say this? Vladimir is the greatest 19th century practitioner of Realpolitik in the 21st century.
[/quote]

You’re welcome to take my bet. Ten years from now when you’re 31 and I’m 63 we can settle up.[/quote]

Are you capable of a response without issuing an ad hominem? They distract from any dialogue we might be able to have.

What’s the bet, exactly? If he isn’t a staunch realist (I believe he is) what is he? Lay it out for me.

337

So we shouldn’t use elementary terminology of the discipline that underpins this discussion? Less cogent writing, more ad hominems. Got it.

340

[quote]Bismark wrote:
The Russian Federation simply does not have the same material or latent power that 1939 Nazi Germany did, who qualified as a potential hegemon.
[/quote]

So, you’re saying Hitler was armed with thousands of mobile Inter Continental Nuclear Balistic Missiles, a fleet of nuclear submarines, and advanced MiG jet fighters and didn’t think to use them? Shame, he lost out.

Security dilemma, your term, you define it.

Oh yeah, check out this article:

http://news.yahoo.com/russia-debuts-sleek-force-crimea-rattling-nato-180311767.html