@ Fraggle: Thank you! Finally, somebody is addressing the question and furthering the point by making objections within the scope of the question!
I’ve been curious about this myself. Obviously the main thing is whether or not you think we have a moral duty to help others. If you do, then the real work comes out, ie how much to give, to whom, etc. Now, others have been denying the validity of moral obligations based on the difficulty of such distributions, etc, but that is not the point.
I haven’t really thought about a requirement so much.
I actually sat down with my GSI this afternoon and talked with him about all your guys’ objections (of course I dind’t mention that my opponents come from a BBing site lol). Anyway, he mentioned that moral duties are VERY DIFFERENT from laws. If you break a law, you go to jail. If you break a moral duty, you’re immoral. Morality doesn’t have the same literal weight and pull on us that law does.
His whole reason in writing a massive dissertation defending his stance that there IS a moral duty to help others leads to his conclusion that we should help others. Now, if we were to institutionalize this help (by taxing people and giving their money to charity), the only way we could justify creating such a law is if it were morally justified.
There are tons of laws that are or have been around that are very unjust. Slavery was okay at a certain time in this country. Does that make it right? No. (unless you’re a relativist). lol. Anyway, he gets more radical than I would. He thinks people should give way more than most would probably think, whereas I would instead say to give more but not quite as much.
He candidly stated to me, and I agree, that a lawyer who make 300k a year could drive a Toyota instead of a Lexus and give that money to people in need.
I can already hear you guys swarming and saying “But if you can’t enjoy the benefits of making money then you won’t work hard and society will be undermined.” blah blah.
Well, I think that this is a bluff. And if you choose your career solely based on income, good luck being miserable (most likely). Either way, the peopel who claim that the NEED their money to buy lavish shit and park it in a bank are 9/10 miserable. I know b/c I grew up with tons of friends whose parents were loaded to the gills. And guess what? They were miserable fuckers. It is clear that moeny doesn’t buy happiness. That’s a different piont, but one worth addressing.
Sure, money is great. Sure, economic comfort is a good thing. But reallly, need we take it so far as to deny others
And to address Jeaton, this is exactly what I’m talking about. You sound like you picked up a copy of Ayn Rand’s work and regurgitated some cool sounding lines. I’ve read her stuff. I like some of her stuff. But come on man, really? I mean, it’s fine to have your own opinions. Obviously. But are you telling me that you don’t owe ANYTHING to ANYONE? You were born into wealth (or at least NOT born into poverty, I assume) when you could have JUST as easily been born into horrifying poverty. You’re so fucking lucky that you weren’t born into a drug addicted family (I’m not talking about you personally, just ppl in general. You very well could be a 3 headed inbred freak), you weren’t born in the Congo, you weren’t born into sex slavery. And there are people who were born this way. So you’re saying that as a result of your luck, your chance birth into a priveledged existence, you can’t find ANY fucking reasons to help those who were born into suffering?
I get the Randian sentiments you’re trying to convey. I take what you’re saying to mean that if one is born into an extreme altruistic society, then they will be expected to do work for no reward. I’m not saying that. I’m not saying take every penny away from a rich man until he makes just as much as the milkman. I’m saying to give a bit more, and that it is morally dutiful to give.
Rand talks all about how altruism is the worst thing. Read We The Living. That’s kind of autobiographical. She clearly grew up in some of the worst communist conditions this planet has ever seen, so her worldview is obviously explainable as a result of what I just mentioned above (how nobody has an incentive to work, etc). Well, take her message, de-radicalize it, and think for yourself man.
Now, I think that if we just step back from our high horses, and our philosophical mumbo jumbo, and just think about others as human beings, then we see that we have a DUTY to help those in need. And even if you don’t agree, we still AT LEAST have a strong responsiblity to help those in need.
And guess what else? Helping others in need makes you feel good. So really, altruism is selfish. Sorry Rand. My charitable donations aren’t self sacrificing, they’re self interested. I feel good and become more productive and feel more satisfied when I help others through various means. I call this the paradox of altruism, and regardless of the implications, I still think altruisim is a good thing. Even if it is selfish.
And lastly, to the guy who said I think there shiould be more jobs but still agree with the Occupy Oakland movement. !. go fuck yourself. Just kidding, seriously. No, for real though, I hear what you’re saying. I think it is a bit counderproductive to jobs and economies to shut down the 5th largest port in the country. But, I also believe that if we DON’T challenge the status quo in fear of upsetting a few longshoreman’s jobs (who are supporting the cause BTW) then we are fucking stupid.
Look, I don’t know enough about economics and politics to really debate this with some smarter ppl here, but I will say this: The way thigns are going is NOT okay. I don’t know many who would disagree. Things are so ass-backwards in the world, in the county, in the cities, etc. When teachers have to buy books for their students, something has got to give. I think that a bunch of nonviolent protesters gathering and telling the “1%” or whatever that they’ve had enough is beyond good.
And to those who say that the protests are violent: They’re not. End of story. Of course all kinds of other groups have jumped on the bandwagon and tried to ride on the Occupy protest’s coattail, but those people are phonies and you can smell their agendas froma mile away. And of course a protest draws anarchists and all kinds of crazies who just want to throw some bottles at cops and scream fuck the pigs. those people are ruining it for everyone else. Thos people give ‘the man’ reason to tear gas innocent, civil protesters, and give people to dismiss the protest as a violent, unorgainized mess, which it is NOT>
In fact, 100,000 or more people peacefully marched to shut down the port. 100,000 people in peace is pretty impressive. Now, I have one friend who was arrested 2 nights ago at the protest and got out yesterday. He, and some other friends, were holding the police back from destroying one of the camps set up where people were sleeping and living. The police overpowered them and arrested one of my friends. One of my other friends was shot with a rubber bullet, and another was shot with a beanbag thing. Of course it’s understandable that the cops shoot at protestors from a psychological standpoint. They’re probably scared shitless seeing thousands of people chating, but that doesn’t make it okay for them to do what they’ve been doing.
Anyway, “It’s better to die on your feet than to live on your knees.”
I think the biggest problem with people my age is the lack of desire to pursue change. People these days just accept the status quo. The only reason that the corrupt and unjust get away with the things they do is because WE LET THEM. Hopefully this starts a trend of stopping unjust activiies. People my age figure that someone else will do it. NO. If you believe in something, get out of your house and stand for it.
In my case, I live about 15 minutes from the main protest site. How can I believe in the cause and NOT go down there to show my support? Now, I don’t believe in violence per se, and therefore I’m not going to scream fuck the police and get teargassed, hopefully lol. But I am going to bring bandanas and vinegar just in case 
I guess I’ve gotten WAY off track here. But I really want to say to all of you guys (who are very smart and who are hopefully already doing things) that if you want change in anything, be it physical change, political change, etc, go out and do something. It’s easy to sit behind a book and say that somebody better qualified will do something, but don’t fall into that trap. Revive the spirit of protest that this country was founded on and that brought this country from a slave state to a demoncratic society that is better than most other countries.