This thread is why I will never post again in Pharma. What a fucking train wreck.
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You are aware that you’re an idiot, right? Nolvadex and Clomid are PCT drugs. Adex is an aromatase inhibitor. HCG is a LH analog, as in it mimics LH and stimulate the testes to function. It is also suppressive to the pituitary so it is the opposite of a PCT drug. You cannot restart with PCT while still shutting yourself down with a “Cruise” dose. You couldn’t have made more of a cluster of it.“Bruh”
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I understand you are angry that you require high test dosages to get your test level up.
100mg Test. Cyp per week gets me to about >1,200ng/dL.
140mg of Test. Prop. per week (20mg per day) gets me over 1,500 ng/ml and free test double the top of the ref. range number.
We won’t agree on this because of your personal use experience. But, yes 200mg weekly is a cycle for the vast majority of men.
We won’t agree on this because statistically (in medical literature) 200mg gets men to a cavg of 55nmol… or around 1500ng/dl… literature typically describes athletes abusing anabolic androgenic steroids to be using (10-100x) replacement dosages, sometimes 5x… 55nmol doesn’t fit those categories
Many here will disagree with you’re ideology as they run 200mg weekly for TRT
You’re like one post away from recommending Ostarine during pct.
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I think this is more of an individual response versus risk tolerance for first cycle. I wish you would post this in the TRT section as I see a ton of those guys on 200mg/wk and think its entirely too much for TRT. However I also agree with @unreal24278 that its too low of a dose to be worth ‘cycling’. I used to prefer 500mg but I’m starting to come around to see that I make almost as much gain in the 300-400 range.
What I wonder is why guys don’t just run like 220-240mg year round instead of cycling… I know the rapid accrual of muscle mass tapers off after 6-10 wks… but theoretically 20 weeks of 230 mg weekly you’d have some decent gains… effect on lipids, haematological parameters etc aren’t as harsh with running said dose full time rather than blasting 600-1000mg + for 10-15 week intervals
Perhaps it isn’t as optimal comparative to blasting/cruising, however said dosages (well 200mg at least) has been shown to be safe for very prolonged periods of time (18 months)
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I think you eat entirely too much food. You should eat half that much. No one needs to eat that much food on a daily basis. There’s plenty of 140lb people that are doing great. (imagine your response if someone said that to you)
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LMAO… they would probably have a good point when it came to my life span. Like my father said… do as I say not as I do.
Why take 200mg of test it’s not worth the shutdown. Plus if your getting your test from a ugl how well do you know it’s dosed? If it’s underdosed you could be shut down on levels in natty range. Don’t risk and go for 400-500 be a better option. You can also run the exact cycle next time as you will still benefit from the same cycle.
Most men running 200mg are in fact not cycling it. They run it year round, so by definition 200mg is not a cycle for most men.
Foolish logic. So, if people ran 500mg year round, it is suddenly not cycling it?
LOL. At the end of the day, it comes down to their own test levels from whatever amount they are using. Whether they run 200mg or 500mg, if they are way above the top of the range it is a steroid cycle. The length of the cycle isn’t really the issue. So, if 200mg has them in range, fair enough. But, there are many men that do have above range test levels on 200mg. I am one of them.
How is this foolish logic?
If I run 500 mg year round for year after year, it is not cycling. If I ran 50 mg a week for 12 weeks and went off, that would be a cycle. Do you understand what the word cycle means?
Yes I do. My point is that they are deceiving themselves by running x dosage indefinitely and saying it isn’t a cycle because they deem it TRT. Technically you can’t call it a cycle, sure, but you are just playing word games at that point.
This is for whatever dosage has them over the range. 200, 300, 500mg. etc.
Okay, I can agree with that. What makes you think that 200 mg is too much for most men to handle? It seems most do fine on that dose and have symptom reduction or elimination.
I never said they couldn’t handle 200mg. I simply said most men get their test levels above the top of the range. Nothing more, nothing less. So, that dose gets them beyond TRT and into a cycle. Yes, they can remain on in indefinitely and yes you can call it not a cycle. But, then they are on a neverending steroid cycle if that is what you would prefer to call it. I understand some men stay in range on 200mg, but again testing is the only way to know.
What if we called it testosterone optimization? At a certain point the negatives outweigh the positives. We want to stay away from that point, but where that is is not clear.
I am not convinced that being in the statistical range is optimal to my goals. I am also not convinced that being outside the range is going to be detrimental to my health.
In regards to competing in sport (that allows TRT) on TRT, then this is an important topic. It would need to be insured that an advantage is not present with the TRT dose.
You are saying milligrams but talking levels. It doesn’t make sense. You would make more sense if you said using dosages that put someone at supraphysiological levels is a steroid cycle but even then that’s not true but at least it’s coherent. Regardless, who cares what you think about how someone else chooses to live. I strive to be above average in every aspect of life. A little bit above range does not equal crazy amounts of muscle over someone within range.
Ehhh… I do, if someone is making blatantly bad decisions, choosing to chop like 30 years off their lifespan (and they don’t know it) I feel it’s nesecarry to call the person out, explain in a way that doesn’t seem like I’m infantilising them
Context of the conversation is crucial when replying. We are talking about people on TRT who use dosages that put them at a little above range. Obviously I’m not referring to a kid asking how many cigarettes to smoke while on his Winstrol/Tren cycle.