[quote]DrSkeptix wrote:
[quote]orion wrote:
[quote]Gkhan wrote:
Question…don’t let your hatred of America get in the way of your logic.
When you say we blocked their ports, who’s exactly?
Saddam’s? I thought there were no Al Qaeda in Iraq till after the invasion. If there were then the invasion is justified.
Iran’s? Are you saying Iran is in charge of Al Qaeda?
Bin Laden’s? Which ports does he own?
Saudi Arabia’s? When did this happen? We had troops stationed there.
Afghanistan? Hell, it’s a land locked country…
So who’s ports did we block and what the hell does that have to do with 9-11?[/quote]
You blocked Iraqi ports which led to the death of hundreds of thousands.
[/quote]
And your source for this declaration is…?[/quote]
So many of orion’s little ejaculations are beneath notice, but every so often, one stands out as particularly obtuse, and instructive.
If the youtube cut is the best source for his declaration, we can now see how Leslie Stahl erred, Madeline Albright was mistaken (a frequent attribute of hers), and how orion swallows whole the ejaculations of others.
“You blocked Iraqi ports which led to the death of hundreds of thousands.”
Lets parse.
“You…”
The Iraq sanctions, Un Security Council Resolutions 660-678 and 686, were passed, frequently without no votes (a few abstentions here and there), and serve as the authority by which the US and others acted. You will notice , for example, that Austria was a voting member of the UNSC at that time, and voted with the majority. Perhaps Austria would be a better target for orion’s inexhaustible rage, since it is a complicit party to these resolutions. The US (and others served), once again, as either garbageman or enforcer of these sanctions. There is no “You,” there is a “We.”
“…blocked Iraqi ports…”
No. An embargo on weapons is not a blockade, and it was entirely legal, and agreed to by the prostrate Iraqi government itself as a condition to the armistice after Gulf I. Trade continued, humanitarian aid was admitted, “food for peace” proceeded according to the resolutions.
“…the death of hundreds of thousands…”
Ms. Stahl says 500,000. Others 100,000. Some say none. There was no body count, but there were estimates based on faulty epidemiologic methods, using in turn, the lies of Saddam’s regime.
Any deaths are too many. But who assumes the moral responsibility? Using the same calculus, let’s examine child mortality at the time of the sanctions under Saddam and compare it to that of the Kurds, where the sanction regime was administered by the UN itself.
“The differential between child mortality rates in northern Iraq, where the UN manages the relief program, and in the south-center, where Saddam Hussein is in charge, says a great deal about relative responsibility for the continued crisis. As noted, child mortality rates have declined in the north but have more than doubled in the south-center. … The tens of thousands of excess deaths in the south-center, compared to the similarly sanctioned but UN-administered north, are also the result of Baghdad’s failure to accept and properly manage the UN humanitarian relief effort.” (David Cortright, The Nation, 2001)
And…
"The difference here is that local Kurdish authorities, in conjunction with the United Nations, spend the money they get from the sale of oil. Everywhere else in Iraq, Saddam does. And when local authorities are determined to get food and medicine to their people–instead of, say, reselling these supplies to finance military spending and palace construction–the current sanctions regime works just fine. Or, to put it more bluntly, the United Nations isn’t starving Saddam’s people. Saddam is. " (Michael Rubin, The New Republic, 2001)
That’s right. Sadddam, by corrupting the system and by repeatedly defying the terms of the armistice, continued the sanctions, and is was his actions which wantonly “…led to the deaths of hundreds of thousands.” Had he complied with the UNSC–Austria included–would any of this happened?
Where is the truth in all this misery? I do not know, but it is not with Leslie Stahl, not with Madeleine Albright, and certainly not with orion.
