Weightlifting and Spirituality

Off Topic
41

[quote]thethirdruffian wrote:

[quote]Schwarzfahrer wrote:
It is the most educated guess.[/quote]

Still a guess.

Look, I got told I was a hero and wonderful guy by various decent Afgans and Iraqis (there are a few; well, not so much in Afganistan, but Iraq had plenty of decent people).

Anyway, there were very upset I was Roman Catholic and even more upset that I read about Judaism (been a long time thinking about that). They were convinced I was going to burn in Hell. (This is the kind of shit you talk about when sitting in a hole for 10 days. It’s like PWI forum, with rifles.)

Well, I don’t really care. I rejected their religion after due thought. What they thought of my ultimate fate was meaningless to me. I was, and am, secure in that.

If you are secure in your atheism, then you should not care that I think you are going to burn in Hell. Nor should you care that I have beliefs that affect you not at all.[/quote]

I’m not sure if I understand you.
“My” atheism is by no means comfortably secure.
All I’m sayin is that the safest bet, so to speak, is to bet the house on blackness.

And of course I care a lot.
Why shouldn’t I?
If some saviour-religion is right I might miss a free ticket to paradise.
Also, and this has more practical implications, organised religion tends to amass political power.
Spreading a certain belief is a warcry.

42

[quote]BroLac wrote:
Religion is such a touchy subject. Everyone has their own beliefs but I think we all can agree that if this guy enjoys lifting then he should do so regardless of what religion he follows.[/quote]

Sadly, mutually agreed T-feelings (yeah, thanks to EmilyQ, we got these now) are no argument here.

Imagine a muslim asking if ‘Massive Eating’ would be a good plan for Ramadan.

Or put differently:

WOuld you tell a jew “that he should enjoy pork regardless of his religious beliefs”?

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[quote]Schwarzfahrer wrote:
All I’m sayin is that the safest bet, so to speak, is to bet the house on blackness.
[/quote]

And that is between you and God. Not my problem.

My comment was in response to the poster (not you I think) who said he “hated religions”

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[quote]Schwarzfahrer wrote:
WOuld you tell a jew “that he should enjoy pork regardless of his religious beliefs”?[/quote]

you’ve crossed the line, here Schwarzie -

Bacon is good, and good for all peoples.

this, we know.

45

Digity, you’re overthinking this. A quick search of Buddhism and weightlifting found plenty of positive connections between the two.

The current incarnation of the Dalai Lama believes and practices the benefits of modern technology. Like, he would not have a problem taking heart medication if a doctor prescribed it. He’s supposed to be vegetarian but for health reasons I think he eats meat every other day.

If you look at Zen and, say, archery or flower arrangement where one is both the arranger and arrangement, if you will. That doesn’t seem to different from a perfectly executed snatch or clean and jerk. I am the vessel through which the movement flows while I am also doing the movement. If to perform a more fluid lift I need to practice parts of the movement that is perfectly OK. I find lifting weights to be a very meditative practice. I feel the weights moving, I feel my body moving the weights, I am consciously breathing in and out, noticing my heart rate, It’s all a very in the moment activity.

46

Jules: Hey, sewer rat may taste like pumpkin pie, but I’d never know ‘cause I wouldn’t eat the filthy motherfucker. Pigs sleep and root in shit. That’s a filthy animal. I ain’t eat nothin’ that ain’t got enough sense enough to disregard its own feces.
Vincent: How about a dog? Dogs eats its own feces.
Jules: I don’t eat dog either.
Vincent: Yeah, but do you consider a dog to be a filthy animal?
Jules: I wouldn’t go so far as to call a dog filthy but they’re definitely dirty. But, a dog’s got personality. Personality goes a long way.
Vincent: Ah, so by that rationale, if a pig had a better personality, he would cease to be a filthy animal. Is that true?
Jules: Well we’d have to be talkin’ about one charmin’ motherfuckin’ pig. I mean he’d have to be ten times more charmin’ than that Arnold on Green Acres, you know wht I’m sayin?

47

[quote]BroLac wrote:

[quote]Waittz wrote:

[quote]BroLac wrote:

[quote]thethirdruffian wrote:

[quote]BroLac wrote:
I can’t stand religions. [/quote]

Why do you care?[/quote]

Because of things like this. This guy is on the fence as to whether he should be lifting or not because of a religion. It all goes black when you die anyway, do what you enjoy.[/quote]

You realize you can only say your last sentence with the same degree of certainty as those who beleive in life after death, reincarnation, heaven/hell etc right?

Or do you fail to see the irony in that? [/quote]

The point is that no one knows what happens after death so you might as well enjoy your time on this earth while your here and do what you like. People read so deep into religion with no proof of an after life.
[/quote]

Your original statement seems to speak that you in fact do know what happens after death, nothing. Your point is still ironic to me in that you don’t see that your own argument is the same used by those who are religious. Since we do not know what happens, abandoning religious beliefs for enjoyments sake can be viewed just as wrong as you seem to find someone sacrificing said enjoyment for their belief structure.

To somewhat mock your last sentence I will say this, people disband religion and religious practices with no proof that there is no afterlife.

48

Your body is your temple. That’s my motto.

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[quote]thethirdruffian wrote:

[quote]Schwarzfahrer wrote:
All I’m sayin is that the safest bet, so to speak, is to bet the house on blackness.
[/quote]

And that is between you and God. Not my problem.
[/quote]

I don’t understand one bit of what you wrote here.

We all know nothingness.
In the morning, we arise from the shallow depths of it.
Before being born into this world, we were submerged in nothingness.
It’s not an unknown medium, although a bit hard to wrap our heads around it.

Yet nobody ever saw a god.

As long as nobody can give me something more substantial, I bet on black.

Why do you consider that a problem?

50

[quote]Schwarzfahrer wrote:

[quote]thethirdruffian wrote:

[quote]Schwarzfahrer wrote:
All I’m sayin is that the safest bet, so to speak, is to bet the house on blackness.
[/quote]

And that is between you and God. Not my problem.
[/quote]

I don’t understand one bit of what you wrote here.

We all know nothingness.
In the morning, we arise from the shallow depths of it.
Before being born into this world, we were submerged in nothingness.
It’s not an unknown medium, although a bit hard to wrap our heads around it.

Yet nobody ever saw a god.

As long as nobody can give me something more substantial, I bet on black.

Why do you consider that a problem?[/quote]

In the morning we arise from sleep, not nothingness. Your brain is active and in the event of REM it creates experiences in the form of dreams, but you knew that.

You are as sure of what you experienced or didn’t prior to birth as anyone does after they die while they are alive. You just do not remember it, if there was anything to remember so you are assuming it was nothing. You also don’t remember almost everything from your earliest moments or life and years living, that doesn’t mean it was “nothingness”.

Many people have claimed to have seen god, it is well documented in the bible and the streets of New York by those wearing tinfoil hats. In all seriousness hundreds of people every day claim to have spoken to, been touched by, or witnessed “god”. Just because you don’t believe them, or haven’t yourself doesn’t mean they haven’t as well.

Keep in mind this is coming from someone who is not the least bit religious. I just find it funny that on a subject of unknown, those who want to argue against religion are so confident that the things they can’t prove or disprove are more correct than others on the same subjects that cannot be proven or disproven as if their own personal opinion or self serving bias stands as factual evidence.

51


Meanwhile in Canada

52

There is no evidence for any gods.
This

is no evidence.
An wether or not one “believes it” doesn’t change that.

The second someone produces actual evidence, twitter and the internet will melt.
Mankind will nevermore be the same.

Of course there are levels of objectivity.
Not believing a bunch of lofty claims is objectivly more reasonable than believing in something unproven.
You do not need evidence or confidence to not believe in something unproven.

The point is that your active stream of conscience is gone.
Nothingness’ small brother (“shallow”).

[quote]
You are as sure of what you experienced or didn’t prior to birth as anyone does after they die while they are alive. You just do not remember it, if there was anything to remember so you are assuming it was nothing. You also don’t remember almost everything from your earliest moments or life and years living, that doesn’t mean it was “nothingness”.[/quote]

At some point there was no you. The exact point of coming into existance is debatable and for our discussion somewhat trivial.
Which is why it’s apt to say we slowly fade into and out of existance.
Cognition and memory share the same space.
What you don’t know you don’t know. What you’ve memorized you do know.

53

[quote]MaximusB wrote:
Digity,

You asked:

“I’m just wondering if doing weights will make me develop any unskillful qualities, like becoming vain or more prone to violence, etc. I think the crux of the matter is that I always want to make sure I’m developing skillful qualities and not feeding the unskillful ones.”

Weights will not give you this, vanity or violence would have already existed within you.
[/quote]
That’s partly true. Those seeds might be in you already, but the results of weightlifting could help water those seeds of vanity or violence and make them grow stronger.

54

The smartest thing to do is act skillfully regardless of whether you think there’s an afterlife or not. If you act skillfully you’ll get along better with others in this life and you’ll live with more ease. If there’s a next life then you’ll have planted good seeds in your mindstream from being skillful. If there’s no afterlife then you still had a good experience this life.

Now, if you act unskillfully then you’ll run into problems in this life and won’t live with ease. If there’s a life after this you’ll have planted bad seeds and may potentially have to reap the fruits of those seeds. If there’s no afterlife you still created pain and suffering in this life.

Therefore, regardless of what you think being skillful is the best way to live your life. This is at the core of what the Buddha taught…to practice skillful qualities and diminish unskillful ones. However, in his teachings this skillful conduct is meant to lay the foundation for awakening. But again, even if you don’t believe in his awakening your best bet is still to do what’s skillful.

All this talk about it goes dark when you die so who cares…sure it’s easy to just say that, but how many people live their lives like that. Why not show up to work tomorrow naked and covered in peanut butter and then jump off the building. What does it matter? It just goes dark when you die anyway. See, you can say stuff like that, but I bet you live your life as if your actions do matter. What you do does matter and if there is a next life and the conditions of it are based on your past actions then you’ll have made a big mistaking living heedlessly.

55

[quote]xboxwarrior wrote:
Digity, you’re overthinking this. A quick search of Buddhism and weightlifting found plenty of positive connections between the two.[/quote]
I know! I tend to overthink things. I’m too much in my head at times. :confused:

58

[quote]Schwarzfahrer wrote:
There is no evidence for any gods.
This

is no evidence.
An wether or not one “believes it” doesn’t change that.

The second someone produces actual evidence, twitter and the internet will melt.
Mankind will nevermore be the same.

Of course there are levels of objectivity.
Not believing a bunch of lofty claims is objectivly more reasonable than believing in something unproven.
You do not need evidence or confidence to not believe in something unproven.

The point is that your active stream of conscience is gone.
Nothingness’ small brother (“shallow”).

The no thing ness you are talking about in deep sleep is what the hindus and certain east asian religions and cultures call the infinite, that which is beyond all form and knowing… Ramana Maharshi discussed it many times at Aranachula among a few other people, There is also the everything ness in that nothingness though, they are said to be two sides of the same coin, perceiving in one ness is often described as being and recognizing one self as existence itself a very certain unknown quality, but a complete and utter death of the little “Me” character.

The door way to all of this being the complete unknown, that is why so many teachings are designed to break through the mind, or glimpse past that state of consciousness, belief is the whole structure that is thought to compose the mind made self, false identity.

Interesting stuff to contemplate on for sure.

59

Maybe. I havent read Davey Crockett but there’s elements of Goku’s personality that the OP could benefit from:

  1. Follows his heart and makes a decision then sticks with it, and does not regret it if it wasnt the best decision in hindsight
  2. His “spiritual journey” is about (innocently) seeking constant progression without caring about being the strongest or the best (contrast this with his rival Vegeta who trains to BE the best)
  3. Fights (seriously I mean, not training) when he HAS to protect and is willing to forgive whoever he fought.
  4. Is able to love his family and friends WITHOUT getting attached to them (he leaves them at several points when he knows/thinks they’re safe to continue his “spiritual journey”)
  5. Does not prioritize people or things in favor of what he perceives as the “greater good” (saving that green alien kid at the end when he could have saved his son instead)

Point being, he is constantly striving for progression, stops to defend/protect and then gets back to his journey without ever getting attached OR stopping to admire his own progress.

Funnily enough, I believe Akira Toriyama was heavily influenced by Buddhism when he sketched out the character who was originally based on Sun Wu Kong (the Monkey King)

[quote]thethirdruffian wrote:

[quote]Depression Boy wrote:

Be like Goku (from DBZ) … Im being serious. KNOW whats right/wrong for you and proceed.[/quote]

Apparently Goku reads Davey Crocket:

“Be sure you’re right. Then go ahead.” — Davey Crocket 1786

Of course, as a reminder, Crocket died a horrible death in the Alamo. Can’t remember, but I think he was shot in the gut.[/quote]

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[quote]Schwarzfahrer wrote:

[quote]thethirdruffian wrote:
And that is between you and God. Not my problem.
[/quote]

…

Why do you consider that a problem?[/quote]

I don’t. That’s why I said “not my problem.”