[quote]Oleena wrote:
What it’s like to be an Atheist:
Every time you hear anyone talk about God, just imagine they’re talking about Santa, and you’ll know how an Atheist hears the conversation. It’s not that they hate Jesus or you; they might even have pleasant memories of religious gatherings and the warm fuzzies of faith; it’s just weird hearing a grown person giving thanks to something that doesn’t exist (think Santa). It’s like watching someone have a trick played on them for their entire lives.[/quote]
What it’s like to be an atheist: God is a fairy tale. Don’t you know, there isn’t no reason for nuthin’, cause like nuthin, can do stuff ya, know. It’s like a there was a nuthin and everything exists because of nuthin.
[quote]Quick Ben wrote:No postulation of certainty is unassailable. It’s a trite answer, but the only one I can give. >>>[/quote]Are you saying that you don’t know anything for sure?
[/quote]
Not at all. Cogito ergo sum. I know I exist on some level. How much I can trust my senses is another issue altogether.
Fine, lets start there then. I exist, I know this.[/quote]
You believe you exist because you have the possible illusion / hallucination of thinking. Read: possible.
How could Descartes prove that WE ARE on the basis that we SEEM to think? I disagree with the guy. Where’s the logical certainty?[/quote]
That’s not what he asserted. He asserted that he has an awareness and that ‘that’ at least must exist. Becuase ‘awareness’ is a something, not a nothing. He never ‘seemed’ to think. His assertion is that what we call ‘thinking’ is an awareness an that exists. He did make a mistake, but it’s not his epistemology, it was his possession. If was the foray in to skepticism.
[quote]pgtips wrote:
The world would be a better place without religion. [/quote]
Prove it?[/quote]
I can’t.
Nobody can.
Nobody can prove that religion makes the world a better place.
Unless you think you can prove it?
[/quote]
So if you cant provide any proof to your claim, why even making it?
ps. I am not a religious guy, so I dont claim the opposit of you. So I have nothing to prove.[/quote]
Religion is manipulation. It has been used by “bad” men in power. They have manipulated other people to do bad" things through religion. I don’t know of any religion that calls for “bad” things to be done.[/quote]
You really need to do some fucking research and history, because neither bear out you assertions. These are emotive arguments not logical ones.
“The world would be a better place without religion.” ← Really? Because the governments that banned religion were the most murderous, violent and oppressive in all of human history. Further, despite all that, they did not manage to kill off religious belief.
[quote]Quick Ben wrote:
Yeah I peeked somewhere, it’s called the bible. As I’ve said before I was raised on this stuff, though I’ll be the first to admit I don’t remember it all. I was 12 or so when I bucked the ole faith.
The OP is my honest perception of the christian god as portrayed in the bible. You say that I’m misinformed and that as soon as you point to the infallible truth of the almighty I’ll run screaming. Do the 20 question lead up to the moment of infallible truth?
[/quote]
You have a perception based on a book you merely glanced at as a child and you think that’s right? Unreal.
[quote]
I know that whatever you are trying to convince me of will require me to put aside my sense of reason and fairness. How is that for starters? You will tell me my sense of anything doesn’t matter, only god matters. We’re here for his amusement… which is what I wrote in my OP.
You have 12004 posts on a message board, your time is impossible to waste [/quote]
Nothing to me is more illogical that atheism. It requires you to believe that all existence has it’s dependence ultimately on nothing. You you posit that that is more ‘reasonable’ that dependence on something? This makes sense to you?
Atheists are the only demographic who will arrogantly make bold proclamations on a book they never read. And they call us ‘unreasonable’.
Don’t worry, I would never throw any bible verses in you face though. I don’t need to to make my points. God isn’t stuck between the pages of a book.
[quote]Quick Ben wrote:
It’s condescending the way you cherry pick quotes.[/quote]
And? If you want to start off condescending from your very first post, don’t cry later at the slightest (in this case, imagined) injuries to your sensitive nature. You’re a poo-flinging troll. Your first post is a compacted, compressed, distilled, caricature. One you had the audacity to call the Christian-point-of-view. A man looking for anything but an uncivil argument would’ve simply said it was his own, and then asked us our thoughts. And yes, I knew it was your own. It was your condescending projection of your own view as being the ‘Christian-point-of-view,’ which I ridiculed.
You’re about as focused as projectile vomiting. So, someone bites, appearing ready to start unpacking the steaming heap of your post. Willing apparently to start from the very beginning with you. Willing to demonstrate that you already act/‘know’ on faith…and you cry because he can’t instantaneously deal with YOUR point of view at once, with other responses and ‘questions’ spewing out of you, even as he tries to start from the only logical starting point (you act and live on faith). And, you want to get all weepy about someone being condescending? Ha!
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Okay, now I am going to have a heart attack and die! Sloth is participating in a religious thread? The world is ENDING!
BTW, Ben, Sloth is right. You come here with you dick out, thinking you can beat relgious people as stupid and full of shit. Then if somebody calls you on it you whine? Man up and take it like you dished it.
And yes, Mak, I will use the same arguments I have used before. Since they have never failed and never been proven wrong, why would I use anything else. Would you like to do tha honors and inform you atheistic comrades my position and my defenses? You should have it memorized by now
[quote]Quick Ben wrote:
I posted this in GAL. Why was it moved to the mental asylum?[/quote]
Because it’s stupid. I’m even Jewish and recognize what you posted is not Christian beliefs.[/quote]
I have seldom met an atheist who is actually against a real religious positions. They argue these weird strawmen that somebody told them religious people think, but we don’t actually think. Besides, I think he hates Jews too.
[quote]Christine wrote:
…like the ass needs another hole.
I’m sorry. Continue.[/quote]
I seem to notice Christine, you’ll drop some vitriol and hatred, but when the conversation gets serious, you run away. Why are you afraid to stand up for your beliefs?
[quote]shorty_blitz wrote:
Believing in a God is one thing but believing in the stories written in religious texts from all faiths is quite ridiculous to me. [/quote]
[quote]Quick Ben wrote:No postulation of certainty is unassailable. It’s a trite answer, but the only one I can give. >>>[/quote]Are you saying that you don’t know anything for sure?
[/quote]
Not at all. Cogito ergo sum. I know I exist on some level. How much I can trust my senses is another issue altogether.
Fine, lets start there then. I exist, I know this.[/quote]
You believe you exist because you have the possible illusion / hallucination of thinking. Read: possible.
How could Descartes prove that WE ARE on the basis that we SEEM to think? I disagree with the guy. Where’s the logical certainty?[/quote]
That’s not what he asserted. He asserted that he has an awareness and that ‘that’ at least must exist. Becuase ‘awareness’ is a something, not a nothing. He never ‘seemed’ to think. His assertion is that what we call ‘thinking’ is an awareness an that exists. He did make a mistake, but it’s not his epistemology, it was his possession. If was the foray in to skepticism.[/quote]
So he meant that something exists even if it was just an illusion? If not, thanks anyway for the explanation. Made me think.
[quote]pat wrote:
Nothing to me is more illogical that atheism. It requires you to believe that all existence has it’s dependence ultimately on nothing.[/quote]
Like squating_bear suggested, it may be that God is not dependent on time. But we could theorize the same thing about the materialization of world / universe without any subject creator. It makes just as much sense. Because if you don’t have to explain what became before God, it is the same as saying that you don’t need to explain what became before materia that just happened to be. Just like God just happened to start being. Maybe there has always been materia - maybe there has always also been a God.
So why couldn’t it be that first became materia, then God, then maybe both were destroyed for some reason, then God came first, materia second, then some unicorn force, whatever… This is essentially the egg before chicken or the other way around debate, if you believe there is a God. If you don’t believe, then it is just that the world came to be without God. What’s so illogical about either or any of the options I gave? No one can know. You can merely believe. And isn’t that what it comes down to?
[quote]pgtips wrote:
The world would be a better place without religion. [/quote]
Prove it?[/quote]
I can’t.
Nobody can.
Nobody can prove that religion makes the world a better place.
Unless you think you can prove it?
[/quote]
So if you cant provide any proof to your claim, why even making it?
ps. I am not a religious guy, so I dont claim the opposit of you. So I have nothing to prove.[/quote]
Religion is manipulation. It has been used by “bad” men in power. They have manipulated other people to do bad" things through religion. I don’t know of any religion that calls for “bad” things to be done.[/quote]
You really need to do some fucking research and history, because neither bear out you assertions. These are emotive arguments not logical ones.
“The world would be a better place without religion.” ← Really? Because the governments that banned religion were the most murderous, violent and oppressive in all of human history. Further, despite all that, they did not manage to kill off religious belief.[/quote]
I don’t think it should be “Banned”. I think that if religion (all religions - not any in particular) just slowly faded out of existance (unrealistic, I know) the world would be a slightly better place.
I think that many of the worlds probelms - (not all by any means) Especialy War, are cause or influenced by organised religion.
The only good points I can see from religion is the Individual benefits, the things that teach people to be better people, to look out for each other etc.
All those benefits can be gained without religion.
I am by no means saying that if somebody believes in God/religion they should stop immediately or ever stop for that matter.
God himself could step out of the clouds right now and proclaim what I wrote to be a filthy lie, and it would STILL be true. It simply cannot be argued against, which is why people are attacking my origins and everything else instead of responding to the OP.
I am not atheist. There seems to be a grand scheme that forces nature to obey it, and I’m fine with it if you want to call that “God.”
What I wrote about Christianity is still true, and you’re the one who has to defend the position that God watched man suffer for however long we’ve been on the planet (pro tip: it’s a little longer than 6000 years) - until saying enough is enough I better reveal myself in the most illiterate part of the middle east I can find and offer these people a chance at redemption.
[quote]Christine wrote:
…like the ass needs another hole.
I’m sorry. Continue.[/quote]
I seem to notice Christine, you’ll drop some vitriol and hatred, but when the conversation gets serious, you run away. Why are you afraid to stand up for your beliefs?[/quote]
Ha! Sorry, I just meant that this argument had been done to death and never goes anywhere.
I didn’t think that was hating.
Whatever ya’ll believe is cool with me. Faith requires no proof, so what is the point of arguing it?
I did have a nightmare last night that I was being chased by a Christian spouting bible quotes. I think it was because of reading this thread.
BTW, Ben, Sloth is right. You come here with you dick out, thinking you can beat relgious people as stupid and full of shit. Then if somebody calls you on it you whine? Man up and take it like you dished it.
[/quote]
I just don’t feel like helping Gregory set up his “you have no base to argue from nyuck nycuk” spiel by playing 20 questions with him.
I am not atheist. There seems to be a grand scheme that forces nature to obey it, and I’m fine with it if you want to call that “God.”
[/quote]
Then morality, good actions and evil actions, would be defined by IT. Take your caricature of the “Christian point of view” at face value. Let’s say, for the sake of argument, that the Chri…well, your point of view of Christianity…is accurate. How would it invalidate a God whose actions and will define what is good or evil? If nature, which we’re part of, is obligated to obey than your view of this god’s moral worth means squat. It doesn’t even begin to invalidate it. If anything, your own ‘moral’ opinion is invalidated by it.
[quote]pushharder wrote:
What country is your country, Ben?[/quote]
Norway.
Don’t get me wrong, the church here serves it’s purpose in regards to weddings, funerals and so on. However a survey a few years back concluded that 72% of the population did not believe in a personal god. Some would still call it a “christian” country, but I think that is a ludicrous statement considering the low church attendance. We are in reality an atheist nation.
[/quote]
Ben your country didn’t get to where it is by being atheist. Atheism is a recent development. Your country is at the periphery of Europe, so it has been able to avoid the devastation of Europe’s wars. Last but not least your country has been very fortunate to enjoy a bonanza from the North sea oil fields, so a good deal of your prosperity is a matter of luck.
Just because your country is mostly atheist now, you would be a fool to believe that could not change within your lifetime and the change could be to something you find to be much worse than Christianity.
Since 1990 420,000 immigrants have moved into Oslo and they now make up twenty nine percent of the population. A large number of them are muslims and in Norway they see a land of nonbelievers that is ripe for takeover.
One of my answers to your remark that Christianity is bullying is you should go visit Saudi Arabia and get some perspective on what real religious bullying is. I would also like to suggest that you take a look at what early Christianity was like before it was institutionalized and made an instrument of the Roman state.
The early Christianity that came from Jesus was very tolerant and allowed for a wide range of belief or even disbelief. ie the Gospel of Thomas (aka the doubting Thomas). If you consider the ideology that Jesus taught, I think even as an atheist you can find merit to much of what he was teaching.
The fact that Norwegians have no religious foundation whatsoever is not going to serve them well in maintaining their culture against the growing islamization of their country. Your attitude of rah rah rah it’s so great we are atheist here is going to come back to haunt you.
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