Was Your Degree Worth It?

I only had trouble with it because the teacher did nothing more than teach us via an 1,100 page long book. It’s like trying to learn Spanish from a Spanish to Spanish dictionary… Like yeah, all the words and definitions are there, but I have to go figure out the fuck this word means now.

I’ve been dabbling with Python in my off time and now have some Command Line experience as well… both of those make WAY more sense but that’s quite possibly due to the teaching modality alone.

I have a bad habit of finding the hardest shit I could possibly fathom and running straight into it. It has worked out well for me though, despite the immense pressure I put myself under. I wanted to enlist and I chose the Marines (because they were the hardest), then chose the hardest occupation I could find from there, then chose to move across country into the elite wing of aerospace and I ended up having strong regrets throughout ALL of those decisions… To be fair though, it led me to be 28 with 2 houses and making just shy of 6 figures.

(insert quote about “hard decisions, easy life; easy decisions, hard life” here)

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Awesome response. Good to hear multiple positive outcomes with an MBA.

I understand the imposter syndrome. I still have no idea how I snagged my current job. They required a degree and 5 years of experience. I have neither, yet here I sit.

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You have guts to do all of that. I have a lot of respect for people that can make decicions and send it. Even if not all of it turned out great, you tried.
Insert Man in the Arena quote (bit long to copy here, give it a read if you haven’t already). One of my favorites.

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I honestly do not understand impostor syndrome. My thought process is that your performance speaks for itself. If your boss and most people you interact with are happy with your performance (and they must be at least feeling ok about it, otherwise you’d see it in your performance reviews), then why do you doubt your accomplishments or worry that you might be a fraud?

(I’m using the common language that I understand is used to describe impostor syndrome; don’t know if it applies to you or mnben87)

I wonder if it’s borne out of a culmination of decades of pressure people place on themselves and the disbelief that they actually “made it”, whatever that may mean to them.

As for the whole investing and not spending a lot of money thing- I speculate this is because engineering isn’t a very “flashy” industry and, prior to the frankly absurd explosion in salary from the software developers, doesn’t really even pay spectacularly high. So there’s no career-related pressure to impress people. Further, I speculate that most people who get into engineering came from low/moderate income households and so tend to think frugally to begin with + are so enamored with their work that they don’t think about spending their money anyways.

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School matters A LOT if you’re looking for a specific career choice.

If you’re going to any engineering field (Say EECS) then companies will look at you differently between you having a degree from UC Berkeley with perfect grades compared to you having a degree from UC Merced with perfect grades. Berkeley is among the kings of EECS and will probably get you an automatic interview while the algorithm will just reject the UC Merced resume out of hand.

Any prospective employer in a field that cares about degrees will see a person with a degree from Harvard more favorably than a person with a degree from some utterly unknown college for exactly the reason Polar-Bear wrote.

But what a college degree (from a reputable school) can also do is open doors that may not have been open to you before, regardless of your GPA or your actual degree. But I don’t think this is a wise reason to pursue any degree. I suppose it’s more of a back-up plan if your original intent with your degree fails.

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I think a lot of performance related stuff comes down to popularity. A person who is popular, treats people well, but has sub par work can often do better than a unpopular, dick that does great work if that makes sense.

There actually was a study recently that showed that people who view their work as sub par, are often seen as the more personable employees.

Yes and no. It is one of the common professions people think about when they think white collar jobs. A lot of parents have wanted their children to be a doctor, lawyer or engineer. Maybe engineer is just in there in case the kid happens to be on the spectrum haha.

Again, yes and no. There is a ceiling unless you move into management / start your own company, etc. It is certainly above the average pay in my state by quite a bit. But I do agree it isn’t spectacularly high.

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You probably just aren’t that good or don’t have high enough standards.

No, just kidding :slight_smile:

Somewhere in between these two probably best but the human mind is complex.

In a highly technical discipline you find yourself many times in the “Valley of Despair” which is the requirement to guru-dom. Some never make it off the “Peak” or to the “Peak”.

If you want to get better or learn more (ignore the mental health effect :-)), what gives you a better driving force…DK or IS?

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This may not be the most productive comment here, but I wanted to share how you come across in this thread.

First I’ll tell you my background/what I do, education, etc. My undergrad majors were philosophy and psychology. Psychology because it was easy and I enjoyed it, and at my school you had to have either a minor or a second major, and then philosophy because I had intended to go to law school. IF I had gone to law school, the philosophy major would have been very useful. The philosophy department at my school was very much geared towards pre-law students, with an emphasis on critical analysis of dense material, and presentation of quality arguments. So, if you ever decided you wanted to pursue a career in law, I would highly recommend this path.

My brother was a math/computer science double major at the same school, and I KNOW his degree was pretty essential for what he does now. He was making close to 6 figures straight out of undergrad.

Overall, I value the education I got, but it has only been helpful in my job in an ancillary way (being able to read and write well, and being well educated in general is only going to be a positive, in any field). I did not pursue law. I currently own a metal fabrication company, primarily manufacturing dust collectors for the surface mining industry.

Something I’d note about my particular school is that there is perhaps more value in the connections a young person can make at certain schools. I went to a school that was filled with, essentially, rich kids with rich parents, heirs to some serious fortunes, etc. That’s something that can be taken advantage of. It can potentially mean more than the degree you actually pursue at the school.

So let’s get back to you. You sound 100% un-hireable. If I saw your resume, I wouldn’t give you an interview, for any position. 30+ jobs in 10ish years? Yea, I’ll pass. Your ‘labrador on red bull’ attention span is going to hold you back FAR more than your lack of education. The fact that you feel lucky to have landed a 70k per year job speaks to where your ceiling probably is with this approach to employment. At some point, your job hopping will bite you in the ass if you ever try to get a real job that actually pays well.

Anyway. Fun thread overall. The general discussion about the value of a college education is interesting, and always evolving.

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I do not have a degree, but have competed against people with degrees for most of my career as a business systems analyst along with consulting and manufacturing management. I’m now in a great situation with good pay and near total flexibility to work remote or in-person as I see fit. I work at a small business so a massive raise is unlikely until some retirements happen, but I’m on a good retirement track even without a massive raise.

Not having the degree was a big handicap for me to make the jump from hourly to salary at a very large multi-national in my mid 20’s, but once I got a good five years of solid performance, results and experience I was on fairly good footing. Finding increasingly well-paying work with increasingly good perks has not been an issue for me since.

In my experience you can’t go too wrong with any degree that has obvious economic applications, even if you don’t make a career out of specifically applying what you study. Engineering has come up quite a bit and I’ve known a lot of people in a lot of different positions with engineering educations and backgrounds.

Some products are so complicated that they can only be sold by people with the engineering know-how to be effective salesmen. Even some buyers in certain industries need to have or can greatly benefit from the technical knowledge gained with an engineering education. Many great project managers and general managers have engineering backgrounds as well, learning the business side of things on-the-job or by further study.

The same idea can apply to many other fields of hard study. I know a few lawyers who don’t practice law but instead have leadership roles in heavy industry.

Liberal arts degrees are rarely a disadvantage, but the value becomes less clear in a lot of cases, especially as the subjects become more fringe. As others have said, earning the degree is a credential in and of itself. Whether it is a good use of money or not is another question that depends on a few things, like how rich you already are. Trust fund babies can do all of the academic navel gazing they want without risking their future well-being. Get your women’s studies degree and start a blog if you want. Most people can’t carve out a living that way.

In general terms, the utility of a degree in a field of study whose only real end-products are ideas is a lot less useful than something with obvious economic applications. Why go into deep debt to get an English degree if you’re just going to end up working in manufacturing management? Sure, your emails may be nice and crisp, but we’ve got stuff to build, ship and sell here.

I’ve also worked with a production planner who had a degree in physics, a software tester with a biology degree and another software tester with a four year culinary degree. One of the third party developers I’ve worked with has a degree in History, learning to code after he graduated. You know, so his family could eat. Maybe they’re happy with whatever they spent on their degree, but I sure wouldn’t be if I had to go into deep debt only to make similar or less than the guy who dropped out.

I agree that this is a major, major handicap. A massive red flag for years to come, even if OP does everything right from here on out.

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Maybe OP should consider going into a profession where contract work is the norm, and 6 months per contract is typical?

To me, the idea of having to land 3 jobs a year sounds like more work than actually just working for the year haha.

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1/1, but I went to a mediocre out of state, state school for civil eng. Had a 3.2 gpa. I was looking for jobs at the end of the recession and was hired at one of the top firms in the bay area. Their first hire in 3 years. Over all the Stanford, Berkeley, UC kids who also applied.

I hire my own team now and I couldn’t care less about where someone went to school if they are +2-3years out. All I care about is how well they can do the job I need, and their diploma doesn’t tell me that. The interview and their past work/performance does.

Similarly, clients don’t hire me because of my diploma. They hire me because of recommendations from other consultants who worked with me previously and saw the value I brought.

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IME, it matters sometimes for the first job. GPA is similar, it matters somewhat for the first job. I don’t even have it on my resume anymore. I don’t think the school matters much after the first job either.

This is part of the fundamental issue. I do not have an end intention or “dream job”. I want something new, challanging and likely different from anything before. I don’t even know what doors I am trying to open.

I find that article confusing because I personally don’t think impostor syndrome will tend to negatively impact your performance. Those who suffer from impostor syndrome will probably put more effort into covering their perceived incompetence, and so actually end up doing good work. I suppose that’s why it’s called impostor syndrome- you feel your image of a skilled employee is a facade!

I think dealing with impostor syndrome may put massive stress onto yourself and may eventually lead to severe mental issues. And if you’re the type who talks about your stress to your family/loved ones then it places a lot of stress onto them as well!

Regarding popularity and performance- I agree for the most part. I would argue that the personable guy who does sub par work still does enough to be valuable and a good part of the team, whereas the genius dick may actually be harming the group in the long run. I think I have a far lesser opinion on perfectionism in the workplace. The way I see it, if the project is completed on time and whatever you made does what it’s supposed to do without issues then you performed well. I think often people spend too much time perfecting things that don’t need to be perfected, wasting valuable resources that may be better spent elsewhere.

I think this segues well into what tareload wrote. Yes, my standards definitely aren’t very high! I’d argue they just need to match the expectations of your customer (which hopefully sales/marketing tempered to be reasonable) and be mostly bug/issue-free, and I believe this tends to be a step or two below the standards perfectionists hold themselves to.

Lastly, @tareload I am never good enough. There’s so much shit to learn =(

[quote=“mnben87, post:48, topic:277490, full:true”]
Yes and no. It is one of the common professions people think about when they think white collar jobs. A lot of parents have wanted their children to be a doctor, lawyer or engineer. Maybe engineer is just in there in case the kid happens to be on the spectrum haha. [/quote] By flashy I meant “All your coworkers come to work driving a Porsche or Lamborghini” and brag about how many hookers they banged last night.

And I genuinely LOLed at the comment about being on the spectrum. I think you’re onto something.

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Oh for sure.

My napkin math puts roughly one out of two engineers I’ve worked with somewhere on the spectrum, or at least very introverted and socially awkward. Some of the best engineers I’ve worked with fit that bill. People skills aren’t always important.

The guys who have the engineering education, experience and are well-rounded both socially and professionally can have a lot of doors opened up for them in high-paying leadership roles.

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I completely agree. Those walls will come in around me eventually. Being an expert, to some level, or at least picking a specialty is going to serve me in the long run. I can only leave off so much on my resume. As you said, I have to figure out the attention span issue to start. I think the rest may well me semantics.

Sorry, I should have clarified. Everything I wrote there is an assumption for your first job out of college. I agree that your alma mater becomes less important after you have several years of experience under your belt and made personal connections in the field.

But you can never underestimate the powers of the right degree. They make it easier to get the first foot in.

I’d honestly argue that your case is an outlier. But I also believe that interviews often end up being a matter of “how much can you make your interviewee like you” once you manage to meet face to face, so perhaps you were significantly more charismatic and showed that you are a better fit for the job than all the other people. In any case, congrats! Those were hard times…

Smart man using that 80/20 rule. Besides the life expectancy for 4.0/4.0 engineering/technical undergrad students isnt terribly high. They are tortured. The true geniuses only pass the elective courses.

After all at the end of the day all that matters is maximizing SI where

SI = SQRT{INTEGRAL[happiness(t) × laughter(t) dt, (t, 0, end)] / end}

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I am happy to see that you have found success without a degree. I like all of the examples you gave as well. This thread does seem to be trending toward a degree being good, but as you said, watch the debt if you are not going to use it. Debt is not going to help me enjoy a future career.

I could add to this point by saying that part of my negative outlook on jobs comes from the companies that hire me. If they have to hire from the bottom of the barrel, what does that say about who I am working for? Probably not a great environment. Hence why I leave. But that is my own creation.

It is not fun, but landing jobs has been easy. Taxes on the otherhand, take forever when you have 3-4 W2s.

Any suggestions on contract work? I really like that idea for obvious reasons.

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