[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
Ya, Iran’s just a victim… Jesus…[/quote]
There’s no doubt in my mind that if we had not overthrown their government in the 50’s things would be a lot different.
They wouldn’t hate us
They would have a democratically elected government
They would be great trading partners. (just like Germany and Japan are now)
the people would not tolerate extremists
[/quote]
You’re basing this off what exactly?
[/quote]
History. Open up a book. [/quote]
Your speculation as to what would have happened since the 1950s is based on “history”?
History is what actually happened, “Brah”. And history shows that Middle Eastern regimes of all stripes have tended to move toward autocracy and theocracy, and less toward democracy. And the chances of a democratic, friendly Iran - based on the way things have turned out - appears unlikely.
[quote]Justliftbrah wrote:
3. They would be great trading partners. (just like Germany and Japan are now)
[/quote]
You realize we overthrew the government’s of both your examples right?
[/quote]
You do realize that those were Fascist regimes? You know Tojo, Hitler, and lets even throw in Mussolini. The government that we overthrew in Iran was a democratically elected one. we essentially appointed their Hitler. Only we sanctioned them to a point where they’d be no threat to us the way Hitler turned out to be. Open up a book dude this is history 101 class. [/quote]
Lol…
[quote]Justliftbrah wrote:
There’s no doubt in my mind that if we had not overthrown their government in the 50’s things would be a lot different.
They would be great trading partners. (just like Germany and Japan are now)
[/quote]
[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
You realize we overthrew the government’s of both your examples right?
[/quote]
We overthrew the government of both Germany and Japan and they became great trading partners, but we shouldn’t have overthrown Iran’s government so that they could become great trading partners???
That’s some logic…
What type of government or regime isn’t all that relevant. We are trading partners with China, what kind of government do they have?
[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
Ya, Iran’s just a victim… Jesus…[/quote]
There’s no doubt in my mind that if we had not overthrown their government in the 50’s things would be a lot different.
They wouldn’t hate us
They would have a democratically elected government
They would be great trading partners. (just like Germany and Japan are now)
the people would not tolerate extremists
[/quote]
You’re basing this off what exactly?
[/quote]
History. Open up a book. [/quote]
Your speculation as to what would have happened since the 1950s is based on “history”?
History is what actually happened, “Brah”. And history shows that Middle Eastern regimes of all stripes have tended to move toward autocracy and theocracy, and less toward democracy. And the chances of a democratic, friendly Iran - based on the way things have turned out - appears unlikely.
Libertarians and history. A hoot.
[/quote]
You should try reading a book Bolt. This is 101 level stuff man…
[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
Ya, Iran’s just a victim… Jesus…[/quote]
There’s no doubt in my mind that if we had not overthrown their government in the 50’s things would be a lot different.
They wouldn’t hate us
They would have a democratically elected government
They would be great trading partners. (just like Germany and Japan are now)
the people would not tolerate extremists
[/quote]
You’re basing this off what exactly?
[/quote]
History. Open up a book. [/quote]
Your speculation as to what would have happened since the 1950s is based on “history”?
History is what actually happened, “Brah”. And history shows that Middle Eastern regimes of all stripes have tended to move toward autocracy and theocracy, and less toward democracy. And the chances of a democratic, friendly Iran - based on the way things have turned out - appears unlikely.
Libertarians and history. A hoot.
[/quote]
You should try reading a book Bolt. This is 101 level stuff man…[/quote]
Or if only I had one of them handy-dandy decoder rings that has the Guaranteed, Fool-Proof Libertopia Design that so many 25 year olds have.
[quote]thunderbolt23 wrote:
liberty … or it can be used to achieve dark and destructive things.
[/quote]
Like?
[/quote]
Seriously? Drug use is the easiest example.[/quote]
So, self inflicted dark and destructive things? We do need to force people to not hurt themselves.
[/quote]
Sometimes, yes, but more importantly we have to try and limit the mess and the costs imposed upon the rest of society by certain individual choices that lead to very bad results.
Another good example - individual ownership and use of radioactive materials.
I honestly think you’re trolling me now. Either you’re trolling or the War Mongers propaganda has got you very paranoid. Lets take Iran for example. We caused a coupe in the 50’s and over threw their democratically elected government. We instead put the shah to power. Were they supposed to appreciate America for that? They’re surrounded by hostile nations with hundreds of nukes. They get threatened by Israel, USA, and the entire EU daily. They decide they want to build ONE nuke and everyone loses their mind.[/quote]
Yeah, I have no idea why people get so upset with the idea of Iran having nukes. I mean…it’s not like they are a terrorist state. It’s not like they’d ever threatened Israel. It’s not like they’d ever chanted “down with the US” in the streets…
This is one more really good example why libertarianism is not only ineffective but really quite dangerous. But, not to worry a libertarian will never be elected to the Presidency.
It seems like yesterday that I was batting the Ron Paul supporters around the T Nation threads. They were cock sure that Ron Paul was going to win the Presidency.
Ha ha the good old days.
Now he can be found doing infomercials on TV…right where he belongs.
[quote]thunderbolt23 wrote:
liberty … or it can be used to achieve dark and destructive things.
[/quote]
Like?
[/quote]
Seriously? Drug use is the easiest example.[/quote]
So, self inflicted dark and destructive things? We do need to force people to not hurt themselves.
[/quote]
Sometimes, yes, but more importantly we have to try and limit the mess and the costs imposed upon the rest of society by certain individual choices that lead to very bad results.
Another good example - individual ownership and use of radioactive materials.
[/quote]
This is why I don’t think Libertarians will ever do anything, and libertarians speaking like preachers is a better play.
Assume we start at “unbridled liberty” and walk ourselves back to get to a reasonable law that keeps order in society. (Like your examples above.) At every single step backwards you are going to have a handful of libertarians call you a statist, and walk off the floor so to speak.
That said, libertarians are Republican (for now) allies. To squander that would be silly. Throw them weed, and keep your hands off the 2nd, and you’ll get a couple more cycles out of them.
[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
Ya, Iran’s just a victim… Jesus…[/quote]
There’s no doubt in my mind that if we had not overthrown their government in the 50’s things would be a lot different.
They wouldn’t hate us
They would have a democratically elected government
They would be great trading partners. (just like Germany and Japan are now)
the people would not tolerate extremists
[/quote]
You’re basing this off what exactly?
[/quote]
History. Open up a book. [/quote]
I always love this response. You basically just said, “I don’t really know why I think this way, but I do so you should just believe me!”
I know you’re in college from other threads so I guess I shouldn’t have expected an actual discussion.
[/quote]
You haven’t given me a single reason as to why you believe Iran is a threat beside a group of people chanting ‘death to america’ on the street. Iran has not attacked another country since the late 1700’s. All of their scientist were executed by mossadd but no one seems to care about that. You need to first understand basic economics in order to understand why Iran is being portrayed as Americas great demise. They are expected to begin accepting gold for their oil which is a big no no for the US government. I remember before we invaded Iraq there was talk about WMD’s and how dangerous they were to global stability. Your username suggests you are a marine. You ought to be ashamed of yourself to buy into this propaganda. Many marines died in Iraq thinking they were spreading democracy which we all know now wasn’t true. Hindsight is always 20/20 so lets not make the same mistake again with Iran. Then again present day Iraq is a democratic peaceful state on it’s way to prosperity…oh wait. Many lives were lost for someone else fiscal and political gain. Saddam began accepting euros for his Oil which again is a big no no. Not too long after we invaded his country and toppled their government and guess what was the first thing we changed? Yep we changed it back to the dollar. I’m not going to go into great detail as to why selling oil for something other than dollars is so crucial to the USA government because it won’t matter you’ll just blindly say that it’s irrelevant because some guys are chanting ‘death to america’ out of a 1976 station wagon.
[quote]Justliftbrah wrote:
3. They would be great trading partners. (just like Germany and Japan are now)
[/quote]
You realize we overthrew the government’s of both your examples right?
[/quote]
You do realize that those were Fascist regimes? You know Tojo, Hitler, and lets even throw in Mussolini. The government that we overthrew in Iran was a democratically elected one. we essentially appointed their Hitler. Only we sanctioned them to a point where they’d be no threat to us the way Hitler turned out to be. Open up a book dude this is history 101 class. [/quote]
Lol…
[quote]Justliftbrah wrote:
There’s no doubt in my mind that if we had not overthrown their government in the 50’s things would be a lot different.
They would be great trading partners. (just like Germany and Japan are now)
[/quote]
[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
You realize we overthrew the government’s of both your examples right?
[/quote]
We overthrew the government of both Germany and Japan and they became great trading partners, but we shouldn’t have overthrown Iran’s government so that they could become great trading partners???
That’s some logic…
What type of government or regime isn’t all that relevant. We are trading partners with China, what kind of government do they have? [/quote]
What do you mean it doesn’t matter? It’s a matter of apples and oranges. China isn’t a fascist dictatorship, they’re COMMUNIST!! There’s a huge difference from the two. Go back to school bud. GI bill could come in handy.
I honestly think you’re trolling me now. Either you’re trolling or the War Mongers propaganda has got you very paranoid. Lets take Iran for example. We caused a coupe in the 50’s and over threw their democratically elected government. We instead put the shah to power. Were they supposed to appreciate America for that? They’re surrounded by hostile nations with hundreds of nukes. They get threatened by Israel, USA, and the entire EU daily. They decide they want to build ONE nuke and everyone loses their mind.[/quote]
Yeah, I have no idea why people get so upset with the idea of Iran having nukes. I mean…it’s not like they are a terrorist state. It’s not like they’d ever threatened Israel. It’s not like they’d ever chanted “down with the US” in the streets…
This is one more really good example why libertarianism is not only ineffective but really quite dangerous. But, not to worry a libertarian will never be elected to the Presidency.
It seems like yesterday that I was batting the Ron Paul supporters around the T Nation threads. They were cock sure that Ron Paul was going to win the Presidency.
Ha ha the good old days.
Now he can be found doing infomercials on TV…right where he belongs.
[/quote]
They’ve threatened Israel? Maybe they did that because Israel assassinated all of the Nuclear Physicists? Like i’ve said before they haven’t attacked another country since the late 1700’s. Yep lets invade a country because someone threatened the big bully in the east and chanted ‘death to america’ out their 1974 stationwagon window. lol
Invade Iran no, take them seriously and do everything to prevent them from getting nuclear. FUCK YES, you have to be retarded to turn a blind eye to Iran.
[quote]Aggv wrote:
Invade Iran no, take them seriously and do everything to prevent them from getting nuclear. FUCK YES, you have to be retarded to turn a blind eye to Iran. [/quote]
[quote]Aggv wrote:
Invade Iran no, take them seriously and do everything to prevent them from getting nuclear. FUCK YES, you have to be retarded to turn a blind eye to Iran. [/quote]
you can’t have your cake and eat it too. [/quote]
So invading Iran is the only way to prevent them from becoming nuclear?
[quote]Aggv wrote:
Invade Iran no, take them seriously and do everything to prevent them from getting nuclear. FUCK YES, you have to be retarded to turn a blind eye to Iran. [/quote]
you can’t have your cake and eat it too. [/quote]
So invading Iran is the only way to prevent them from becoming nuclear? [/quote]
This has nothing to do with Nuclear Weapons. The US government has been saying for decades that Iran is a couple of years away from a nuke. Iran a few years ago proposed they might begin trading oil for gold and our leaders heads exploded. Now out of no where even though the circumstances are still the same, there seems to be a push to invade them even when there are peaceful negotiations currently being conducted.
[quote]Justliftbrah wrote:
3. They would be great trading partners. (just like Germany and Japan are now)
[/quote]
You realize we overthrew the government’s of both your examples right?
[/quote]
You do realize that those were Fascist regimes? You know Tojo, Hitler, and lets even throw in Mussolini. The government that we overthrew in Iran was a democratically elected one. we essentially appointed their Hitler. Only we sanctioned them to a point where they’d be no threat to us the way Hitler turned out to be. Open up a book dude this is history 101 class. [/quote]
Lol…
[quote]Justliftbrah wrote:
There’s no doubt in my mind that if we had not overthrown their government in the 50’s things would be a lot different.
They would be great trading partners. (just like Germany and Japan are now)
[/quote]
[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
You realize we overthrew the government’s of both your examples right?
[/quote]
We overthrew the government of both Germany and Japan and they became great trading partners, but we shouldn’t have overthrown Iran’s government so that they could become great trading partners???
That’s some logic…
What type of government or regime isn’t all that relevant. We are trading partners with China, what kind of government do they have? [/quote]
What do you mean it doesn’t matter? It’s a matter of apples and oranges. [/quote]
Did you or did you not compare Iran’s democracy (the one they had for about 3 minutes) to Germany and Japan? Now you want to lecture me about apples to oranges compassion? Get real. The point that went sailing over your head is that the type of governement is pretty much irrelevant when discussing trade relations. That is why we can be trade partners with the likes of China, Russia, etc…
[quote]
China isn’t a fascist dictatorship, they’re COMMUNIST!! There’s a huge difference from the two. Go back to school bud. GI bill could come in handy. [/quote]
Lol, typical bullshit response from some assclown that just finished up World History 101. Give me a break.
I already used my GI Bill to earn an undergraduate degree bud. You sound just as retarded in this thread as your sports are fixed thread.
I ask you to back up your statement and the response is, “read a book.” Go fuck yourself kid.
[quote]Justliftbrah wrote:
3. They would be great trading partners. (just like Germany and Japan are now)
[/quote]
You realize we overthrew the government’s of both your examples right?
[/quote]
You do realize that those were Fascist regimes? You know Tojo, Hitler, and lets even throw in Mussolini. The government that we overthrew in Iran was a democratically elected one. we essentially appointed their Hitler. Only we sanctioned them to a point where they’d be no threat to us the way Hitler turned out to be. Open up a book dude this is history 101 class. [/quote]
Lol…
[quote]Justliftbrah wrote:
There’s no doubt in my mind that if we had not overthrown their government in the 50’s things would be a lot different.
They would be great trading partners. (just like Germany and Japan are now)
[/quote]
[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
You realize we overthrew the government’s of both your examples right?
[/quote]
We overthrew the government of both Germany and Japan and they became great trading partners, but we shouldn’t have overthrown Iran’s government so that they could become great trading partners???
That’s some logic…
What type of government or regime isn’t all that relevant. We are trading partners with China, what kind of government do they have? [/quote]
What do you mean it doesn’t matter? It’s a matter of apples and oranges. [/quote]
Did you or did you not compare Iran’s democracy (the one they had for about 3 minutes) to Germany and Japan? Now you want to lecture me about apples to oranges compassion? Get real. The point that went sailing over your head is that the type of governement is pretty much irrelevant when discussing trade relations. That is why we can be trade partners with the likes of China, Russia, etc…
[quote]
China isn’t a fascist dictatorship, they’re COMMUNIST!! There’s a huge difference from the two. Go back to school bud. GI bill could come in handy. [/quote]
Lol, typical bullshit response from some assclown that just finished up World History 101. Give me a break.
I already used my GI Bill to earn an undergraduate degree bud. You sound just as retarded in this thread as your sports are fixed thread.
I ask you to back up your statement and the response is, “read a book.” Go fuck yourself kid. [/quote]
now go ask for a refund. I backed up my claim plenty. Don’t believe me? scroll up. You seemed to have forgotten to quote that large paragraph that I so eloquently typed for you above. I gave you scenario in which a Democratic government was overthrown and a dictator was instilled in its place. You flip it in reverse and give me a scenario in which we over throw a dictator and instilled a democratic government instead. you use that as an example as to why overthrowing government before have worked. No shit sherlock! that’s like saying working out will make you fat only because when I didn’t workout I was still fat.
[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
Ya, Iran’s just a victim… Jesus…[/quote]
There’s no doubt in my mind that if we had not overthrown their government in the 50’s things would be a lot different.
They wouldn’t hate us
They would have a democratically elected government
They would be great trading partners. (just like Germany and Japan are now)
the people would not tolerate extremists
[/quote]
You’re basing this off what exactly?
[/quote]
History. Open up a book. [/quote]
I always love this response. You basically just said, “I don’t really know why I think this way, but I do so you should just believe me!”
I know you’re in college from other threads so I guess I shouldn’t have expected an actual discussion.
[/quote]
You haven’t given me a single reason as to why you believe Iran is a threat beside a group of people chanting ‘death to america’ on the street. [/quote]
You made a statement and I asked you to back that statement up. You know, I asked a simple fucking question. You couldn’t so you made a dumb ass remark about opening a book.
Why the fuck would I have given you reasons as to why I believe Iran is a threat?
Hahahahahahahahaah! This site never fails to deliver some of the dumbest motherfuckers the internet has ever seen. Do I need to understand basic economic? I’m pretty sure I’ve got basic economic down…
[quote]
They are expected to begin accepting gold for their oil which is a big no no for the US government. I remember before we invaded Iraq there was talk about WMD’s and how dangerous they were to global stability. [/quote]
You remember huh… What were you like 10? I’m sure you had a solid grasp of the conversation going on.
[quote]
Your username suggests you are a marine. [/quote]
I take back everything I’ve said. I didn’t realize I was dealing with Sherlock Holmes here.
[quote]
You ought to be ashamed of yourself to buy into this propaganda. [/quote]
Lol…
[quote]
Many marines died in Iraq thinking they were spreading democracy which we all know now wasn’t true. [/quote]
You have no clue, what so ever, as to why Marines were willing to die in Iraq. Clueless. Stop talking.
100% false.
The pie isn’t a fixed size. One person is NOT poor because another person is rich.
That is the dumbest talking point in the world, and yet morons eat it up… [/quote]
[quote]Justliftbrah wrote:
I just wanted to point out that Israel has violated over 200 UN resolutions and still receives military aid from the US. Iraq violated three and we dismantled their government, military, and infrastructure. Not to mention we created an insurgency that never existed before the occupation. Overall it begs the question why did we invade Iraq but continue to provide aid to Israel? Well Murica [/quote]
I just wanted to point out that you’re a 19 year old kid whose ex-girlfriend left him, cheated on him, and got a restraining order against him then got pregnant from some other dude a month ago, had sex with you, and two days later told you the kid was yours. And you believe all of it.
So I don’t really know how much credence to give your geopolitical pontifications. [/quote]
