Was Jesus the First Democrat ?

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
81

[quote]Gambit_Lost wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]Gambit_Lost wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]Gambit_Lost wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:

Also, you do not get the story of the needle and the camel.

[/quote]

I don’t get it either. Can you explain it for me? Please. [/quote]

Well, if we assume that eye of the needle is actually a correct translation, the eye of the needle was a small city door in Jerusalem.

If you were a wealthy merchant and came to Jerusalem too late, you could no longer go through the main gates but have to use one of the smaller ones, one being the eye of the needle.

Now your camel could not pass through it with all your merchandise on it, so you had to unload it, get your camel through the door and then pack it again, at the risk of losing some or all of your merchandise.

Not impossible, just takes some planning.

[/quote]

Thanks. Sorry, but I’m not sure I understand the implications of what you’re saying. Are you’re saying that Jesus was teaching that the rich man should plan more in order to get into heaven? [/quote]

Who am I to interpret what Jesus was saying?

Personally I think that he was saying that clinging to your possessions can get in your way and not only if you trying to get into Jerusalem.

[/quote]

Wow, I had thought it meant something quite similar to that. But you were telling Pitbull that he didn’t understand it, I guess I didn’t see anything that he had written that was far off from your interpretation. Were you just being argumentative?

[/quote]

No,because he implied an impossibility, whereas Jesus probably hinted that it was difficult or unlikely.

Also, if he wanted to get all biblical, there are Jesus quotes that are very pro capitalist and pro free contract f.e the tale of the talents, and the tale where a landowner pays every worker the same, even though they did not work the same hours.

82

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:
Sources please.

Because I seem to remember quite clearly that he warned the Israelites repeteadly when they developed the idea that they simply must have a king.

I remember that he quite a lot to say about kings, and none were to positive.

[/quote]

No doubt, that’s part of the problem with the Israelites in the Bible. They had a King! But they wanted a king to take them to war (crazy idea, but whatever).

And, sources: Daniel 2:21. And, of course there is the infamous Romans 13:1-6 (I know not OT, but Paul is talking about G-d, but Paul says there is ‘no power’ which would sound like a universal statement.[/quote]

Well, he removeth and setteth dung beetles too, but that is not exactly a ringing endorsement.

Also, I like how whenever people look for the most preposterous claims in the bible they invariably fall back on Paul.

Not Jesus, not God, Paul.

[/quote]

Interesting, since Jesus never touched much ink to paper. So…you know gotta go with the other guy, if you know what I mean.

And, when Jesus ascended into Heaven, he didn’t tell the Apostles to write what he had done, he told them to preach it. So…I’m not sure what you’re looking for, I don’t think I know of anything besides the Jesus Letters that would have been written by Jesus, a little busy with the whole preaching/miracles thing.

83

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]Gambit_Lost wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]Gambit_Lost wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]Gambit_Lost wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:

Also, you do not get the story of the needle and the camel.

[/quote]

I don’t get it either. Can you explain it for me? Please. [/quote]

Well, if we assume that eye of the needle is actually a correct translation, the eye of the needle was a small city door in Jerusalem.

If you were a wealthy merchant and came to Jerusalem too late, you could no longer go through the main gates but have to use one of the smaller ones, one being the eye of the needle.

Now your camel could not pass through it with all your merchandise on it, so you had to unload it, get your camel through the door and then pack it again, at the risk of losing some or all of your merchandise.

Not impossible, just takes some planning.

[/quote]

Thanks. Sorry, but I’m not sure I understand the implications of what you’re saying. Are you’re saying that Jesus was teaching that the rich man should plan more in order to get into heaven? [/quote]

Who am I to interpret what Jesus was saying?

Personally I think that he was saying that clinging to your possessions can get in your way and not only if you trying to get into Jerusalem.

[/quote]

Wow, I had thought it meant something quite similar to that. But you were telling Pitbull that he didn’t understand it, I guess I didn’t see anything that he had written that was far off from your interpretation. Were you just being argumentative?

[/quote]

No,because he implied an impossibility, whereas Jesus probably hinted that it was difficult or unlikely.

Also, if he wanted to get all biblical, there are Jesus quotes that are very pro capitalist and pro free contract f.e the tale of the talents, and the tale where a landowner pays every worker the same, even though they did not work the same hours.

[/quote]

The door called the eye of a needle is unfounded until the 9th century or as late as the 15th century.

Literal: Even though it is easier for a camel to get through an eye of a needle than a rich man into heaven, it is still impossible for a camel to get through the eye of a needle.

Allegorical: By rich man, Remigius understands one who trusts in riches, who places all his hope in them, which is what many rich men do. More simply you may take it to mean any rich person. (Cornelius).

Moral: Do not trust in riches, but G-d. As nothing is impossible for G-d, but riches can do no such thing.

Anagogical: Those that trust in the Lord with all things, will not be denied.

84

[quote]Oleena wrote:

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:

[quote]koffea wrote:
<<< Satan wanted to take away free will >>>[/quote]Actually it was Satan that introduced them to what we now call free will.
[/quote]

It’s hilarious that you’d have to point this out.[/quote]

Your right , the forbidden fruit , good point

85

[quote]dk44 wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

[quote]dk44 wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

I personally feel if Jesus were alive today he would approve of the almost %50 of the population (Democrats) and wonder why his people the Moral Majority would stand against his principles .

If you would add the percentage points of the Moral Majority to that of the Democrats you would surely break the majority
[/quote]

Yeah Jesus seems like he would be a big fan of abortion.
[/quote]

I agree, but I believe the Moral Majority could influence the Democrats the same way they influenced the Republicans [/quote]

What? Influence shouldn’t play a part here. You either agree with something or you don’t right? The republicans didn’t influence me to believe abortion is bad, nor that big gov. is bad, nor that Pelosi/Reid/Obama are idiots. Not sure if that was your point and if so my bad.[/quote]

The point is the Republicans cater to the voting block of the moral Majority, The Democrats would do the same , and IMO it would be a better fit because The Democrats are more Christ like in their treatment of the poor , sick ,young and old not just the unborn

86

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

[quote]dk44 wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

[quote]dk44 wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

I personally feel if Jesus were alive today he would approve of the almost %50 of the population (Democrats) and wonder why his people the Moral Majority would stand against his principles .

If you would add the percentage points of the Moral Majority to that of the Democrats you would surely break the majority
[/quote]

Yeah Jesus seems like he would be a big fan of abortion.
[/quote]

I agree, but I believe the Moral Majority could influence the Democrats the same way they influenced the Republicans [/quote]

What? Influence shouldn’t play a part here. You either agree with something or you don’t right? The republicans didn’t influence me to believe abortion is bad, nor that big gov. is bad, nor that Pelosi/Reid/Obama are idiots. Not sure if that was your point and if so my bad.[/quote]

The point is the Republicans cater to the voting block of the moral Majority, The Democrats would do the same , and IMO it would be a better fit because The Democrats are more Christ like in their treatment of the poor , sick ,young and old not just the unborn[/quote]

Actually they are not, because Republicans give more of their own time and money to charity than Democrats.

Not that being generous with othe peoples money can be in any way construed as being Christ like.

87

[quote]orion wrote:<<< Not that being generous with other peoples money can be in any way construed as being Christ like. [/quote]Christlikeness happens first in places nobody else can see.

88

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:<<< Not that being generous with other peoples money can be in any way construed as being Christ like. [/quote]Christlikeness happens first in places nobody else can see.
[/quote]

Whhhaaaat?

But how will I be able to brag about it to my liberal peers?

89

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

[quote]dk44 wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

[quote]dk44 wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

I personally feel if Jesus were alive today he would approve of the almost %50 of the population (Democrats) and wonder why his people the Moral Majority would stand against his principles .

If you would add the percentage points of the Moral Majority to that of the Democrats you would surely break the majority
[/quote]

Yeah Jesus seems like he would be a big fan of abortion.
[/quote]

I agree, but I believe the Moral Majority could influence the Democrats the same way they influenced the Republicans [/quote]

What? Influence shouldn’t play a part here. You either agree with something or you don’t right? The republicans didn’t influence me to believe abortion is bad, nor that big gov. is bad, nor that Pelosi/Reid/Obama are idiots. Not sure if that was your point and if so my bad.[/quote]

The point is the Republicans cater to the voting block of the moral Majority, The Democrats would do the same , and IMO it would be a better fit because The Democrats are more Christ like in their treatment of the poor , sick ,young and old not just the unborn[/quote]

Actually they are not, because Republicans give more of their own time and money to charity than Democrats.

Not that being generous with othe peoples money can be in any way construed as being Christ like.

[/quote]

I do not know the figures , but I would guess the income level is higher in the Republican party than the Democratic party

I know alot of people think the wealthy get a spanking on their taxes , I do not. The poor pay all the fees and taxes that the wealthy pay except INCOME tax. If you figure the percentage a person pays that makes a thousand dollars as aposed to a person that makes ten thousand a month I would bet the person that makes a thousand a month pays a higher percentage

90

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

[quote]dk44 wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

[quote]dk44 wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

I personally feel if Jesus were alive today he would approve of the almost %50 of the population (Democrats) and wonder why his people the Moral Majority would stand against his principles .

If you would add the percentage points of the Moral Majority to that of the Democrats you would surely break the majority
[/quote]

Yeah Jesus seems like he would be a big fan of abortion.
[/quote]

I agree, but I believe the Moral Majority could influence the Democrats the same way they influenced the Republicans [/quote]

What? Influence shouldn’t play a part here. You either agree with something or you don’t right? The republicans didn’t influence me to believe abortion is bad, nor that big gov. is bad, nor that Pelosi/Reid/Obama are idiots. Not sure if that was your point and if so my bad.[/quote]

The point is the Republicans cater to the voting block of the moral Majority, The Democrats would do the same , and IMO it would be a better fit because The Democrats are more Christ like in their treatment of the poor , sick ,young and old not just the unborn[/quote]

Actually they are not, because Republicans give more of their own time and money to charity than Democrats.

Not that being generous with othe peoples money can be in any way construed as being Christ like.

[/quote]

I do not know the figures , but I would guess the income level is higher in the Republican party than the Democratic party

I know alot of people think the wealthy get a spanking on their taxes , I do not. The poor pay all the fees and taxes that the wealthy pay except INCOME tax. If you figure the percentage a person pays that makes a thousand dollars as aposed to a person that makes ten thousand a month I would bet the person that makes a thousand a month pays a higher percentage[/quote]

You would guess wrong, Democrats make more money.

91

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

[quote]dk44 wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

[quote]dk44 wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

I personally feel if Jesus were alive today he would approve of the almost %50 of the population (Democrats) and wonder why his people the Moral Majority would stand against his principles .

If you would add the percentage points of the Moral Majority to that of the Democrats you would surely break the majority
[/quote]

Yeah Jesus seems like he would be a big fan of abortion.
[/quote]

I agree, but I believe the Moral Majority could influence the Democrats the same way they influenced the Republicans [/quote]

What? Influence shouldn’t play a part here. You either agree with something or you don’t right? The republicans didn’t influence me to believe abortion is bad, nor that big gov. is bad, nor that Pelosi/Reid/Obama are idiots. Not sure if that was your point and if so my bad.[/quote]

The point is the Republicans cater to the voting block of the moral Majority, The Democrats would do the same , and IMO it would be a better fit because The Democrats are more Christ like in their treatment of the poor , sick ,young and old not just the unborn[/quote]

Actually they are not, because Republicans give more of their own time and money to charity than Democrats.

Not that being generous with othe peoples money can be in any way construed as being Christ like.

[/quote]

I do not know the figures , but I would guess the income level is higher in the Republican party than the Democratic party

I know alot of people think the wealthy get a spanking on their taxes , I do not. The poor pay all the fees and taxes that the wealthy pay except INCOME tax. If you figure the percentage a person pays that makes a thousand dollars as aposed to a person that makes ten thousand a month I would bet the person that makes a thousand a month pays a higher percentage[/quote]

You would guess wrong, Democrats make more money.

[/quote]

Which is why its absolutely hilarious that the uneducated and the working classes tend to vote for Republicans who tend to focus on protecting the interests of the wealthy. A better example of people fucking themselves in the ass is hard to find.

92

[quote]smh23 wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

[quote]dk44 wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

[quote]dk44 wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

I personally feel if Jesus were alive today he would approve of the almost %50 of the population (Democrats) and wonder why his people the Moral Majority would stand against his principles .

If you would add the percentage points of the Moral Majority to that of the Democrats you would surely break the majority
[/quote]

Yeah Jesus seems like he would be a big fan of abortion.
[/quote]

I agree, but I believe the Moral Majority could influence the Democrats the same way they influenced the Republicans [/quote]

What? Influence shouldn’t play a part here. You either agree with something or you don’t right? The republicans didn’t influence me to believe abortion is bad, nor that big gov. is bad, nor that Pelosi/Reid/Obama are idiots. Not sure if that was your point and if so my bad.[/quote]

The point is the Republicans cater to the voting block of the moral Majority, The Democrats would do the same , and IMO it would be a better fit because The Democrats are more Christ like in their treatment of the poor , sick ,young and old not just the unborn[/quote]

Actually they are not, because Republicans give more of their own time and money to charity than Democrats.

Not that being generous with othe peoples money can be in any way construed as being Christ like.

[/quote]

I do not know the figures , but I would guess the income level is higher in the Republican party than the Democratic party

I know alot of people think the wealthy get a spanking on their taxes , I do not. The poor pay all the fees and taxes that the wealthy pay except INCOME tax. If you figure the percentage a person pays that makes a thousand dollars as aposed to a person that makes ten thousand a month I would bet the person that makes a thousand a month pays a higher percentage[/quote]

You would guess wrong, Democrats make more money.

[/quote]

Which is why its absolutely hilarious that the uneducated and the working classes tend to vote for Republicans who tend to focus on protecting the interests of the wealthy. A better example of people fucking themselves in the ass is hard to find.[/quote]

I reject your blatant materialism.

93

[quote]orion wrote:Whhhaaaat?

But how will I be able to brag about it to my liberal peers?[/quote]You wouldn’t and that’s the point

94

[quote]orion wrote:

I reject your blatant materialism.

[/quote]

Please elaborate.

95

[quote]smh23 wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:

I reject your blatant materialism.

[/quote]

Please elaborate.[/quote]

You are basically arguing that they do not vote their class consciessness, blinded by bourgeous propaganda.

If they only voted Democrat they would get more money.

Not only that they would not in the long run because redistribution makes everyone poorer, that is also not the society they want.

If they saw the world the way you do, they would probably vote for Democrats.

I think they want to keep the money they make and if someone else makes more, good for him.

96

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

[quote]MaximusB wrote:
What happens when social charity becomes corrupt? The Vatican can end world hunger, but it doesn’t. They also do not discipline priests who do molest kids.

I am from Missouri…the “show me” state. [/quote]

I am personally an agnostic, I am just curious how some one claiming to be Christ like can make policy that is not Christ like ?[/quote]

Because giving to the poor because it is MANDATED by law removes the charity, or loving act. Its called free will. It wouldn’t make sense for God to give us free will and then forced us to act lovingly through fear.

Also keep in mind that a lot of conservatives feel that liberal social programs are designed to keep people locked into poverty to serve as a voting block, but disincentivising becoming self reliant.

Liberalism is not about reducing poverty, it is about bringing everyone to the same level. Liberals don’t want to accept making the rich richer even if it makes the poor better off as well. There is not a single limited pool of resources. What if we cut taxes in half, and as a result the entire economy grows 300% in the next 20 years and everyone is living with more?

Is it Christian to give your kids candy when they are hungry and ask for it, or to do their homework for them?

97

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

[quote]florelius wrote:
If he lived to today, I dont think he would be a democrat or a republican. He fits the pacifist-anarchist-socialist group in my wiew. I dont think he would vote for anybody invading and bombing other countries.
[/quote]

I do not think Christ would be Republican , the Republicans are anti poor Christ was a Champion of the poor and sick
[/quote]

The Democrats are PRO poor, in that they want to keep people poor by creating programs that make people slaves to the government.

98

[quote]Gambit_Lost wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]Gambit_Lost wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:

Also, you do not get the story of the needle and the camel.

[/quote]

I don’t get it either. Can you explain it for me? Please. [/quote]

Well, if we assume that eye of the needle is actually a correct translation, the eye of the needle was a small city door in Jerusalem.

If you were a wealthy merchant and came to Jerusalem too late, you could no longer go through the main gates but have to use one of the smaller ones, one being the eye of the needle.

Now your camel could not pass through it with all your merchandise on it, so you had to unload it, get your camel through the door and then pack it again, at the risk of losing some or all of your merchandise.

Not impossible, just takes some planning.

[/quote]

Thanks. Sorry, but I’m not sure I understand the implications of what you’re saying. Are you’re saying that Jesus was teaching that the rich man should plan more in order to get into heaven? [/quote]

Actually you need to understand that the Jews listening believed that a rich man had the BEST chance of entering the kingdom of heaven because he had the financial means to fulfill the entire law, such as making the right sacrifices, giving to the poor, etc. A poor person could never fulfill the law.

Why did Jesus say that the master gave the one gold talent to the man who had 10 and grew it to 20?

The camels eye was about not becoming posessed by your possessions, letting them slide off rather than having them drag you off the camel as you tried to enter.

And if Jesus wanted everyone to “sell all, give to the poor and follow me” then the gospel could have been greatly shortened. He saw that the man had made an idol of his wealth, rather than having it be a tool by which to do God’s will. Jesus never said “obliterate poverty”. He rebuked Judas when he asked if the oil used to annoint his feet should have been sold and given to the poor.

99

[quote]smh23 wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

[quote]dk44 wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

[quote]dk44 wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

I personally feel if Jesus were alive today he would approve of the almost %50 of the population (Democrats) and wonder why his people the Moral Majority would stand against his principles .

If you would add the percentage points of the Moral Majority to that of the Democrats you would surely break the majority
[/quote]

Yeah Jesus seems like he would be a big fan of abortion.
[/quote]

I agree, but I believe the Moral Majority could influence the Democrats the same way they influenced the Republicans [/quote]

What? Influence shouldn’t play a part here. You either agree with something or you don’t right? The republicans didn’t influence me to believe abortion is bad, nor that big gov. is bad, nor that Pelosi/Reid/Obama are idiots. Not sure if that was your point and if so my bad.[/quote]

The point is the Republicans cater to the voting block of the moral Majority, The Democrats would do the same , and IMO it would be a better fit because The Democrats are more Christ like in their treatment of the poor , sick ,young and old not just the unborn[/quote]

Actually they are not, because Republicans give more of their own time and money to charity than Democrats.

Not that being generous with othe peoples money can be in any way construed as being Christ like.

[/quote]

I do not know the figures , but I would guess the income level is higher in the Republican party than the Democratic party

I know alot of people think the wealthy get a spanking on their taxes , I do not. The poor pay all the fees and taxes that the wealthy pay except INCOME tax. If you figure the percentage a person pays that makes a thousand dollars as aposed to a person that makes ten thousand a month I would bet the person that makes a thousand a month pays a higher percentage[/quote]

You would guess wrong, Democrats make more money.

[/quote]

Which is why its absolutely hilarious that the uneducated and the working classes tend to vote for Republicans who tend to focus on protecting the interests of the wealthy. A better example of people fucking themselves in the ass is hard to find.[/quote]

You assume that people would vote solely based on their materialistic desires. But at any rate, the Democrat party is the one that enslaves the poor and minorities as a voting block by locking them into social assistance programs which prevent them from ever becoming self reliant.

100

[quote]smh23 wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

[quote]dk44 wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

[quote]dk44 wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

I personally feel if Jesus were alive today he would approve of the almost %50 of the population (Democrats) and wonder why his people the Moral Majority would stand against his principles .

If you would add the percentage points of the Moral Majority to that of the Democrats you would surely break the majority
[/quote]

Yeah Jesus seems like he would be a big fan of abortion.
[/quote]

I agree, but I believe the Moral Majority could influence the Democrats the same way they influenced the Republicans [/quote]

What? Influence shouldn’t play a part here. You either agree with something or you don’t right? The republicans didn’t influence me to believe abortion is bad, nor that big gov. is bad, nor that Pelosi/Reid/Obama are idiots. Not sure if that was your point and if so my bad.[/quote]

The point is the Republicans cater to the voting block of the moral Majority, The Democrats would do the same , and IMO it would be a better fit because The Democrats are more Christ like in their treatment of the poor , sick ,young and old not just the unborn[/quote]

Actually they are not, because Republicans give more of their own time and money to charity than Democrats.

Not that being generous with othe peoples money can be in any way construed as being Christ like.

[/quote]

I do not know the figures , but I would guess the income level is higher in the Republican party than the Democratic party

I know alot of people think the wealthy get a spanking on their taxes , I do not. The poor pay all the fees and taxes that the wealthy pay except INCOME tax. If you figure the percentage a person pays that makes a thousand dollars as aposed to a person that makes ten thousand a month I would bet the person that makes a thousand a month pays a higher percentage[/quote]

You would guess wrong, Democrats make more money.

[/quote]

Which is why its absolutely hilarious that the uneducated and the working classes tend to vote for Republicans who tend to focus on protecting the interests of the wealthy. A better example of people fucking themselves in the ass is hard to find.[/quote]

I could not agree more