[quote]MaximusB wrote:
I knew she would be found guilty, their system of government is different than ours. Over there, you are guilty until proven innocent. [/quote]
This is just plain wrong.
[quote]orion wrote:
[quote]MaximusB wrote:
The way Italy’s system is set up, more innocent people go to jail, where here in the US more guilty people go free. This is why I tell people that while the US system is not perfect, it is much better than other countries. You have some rights as someone accused here, where you have less to none elsewhere. [/quote]
First how do you know how many people are guilty in the US vs Italy?
All I know is that in the Eureopean countries I know of of you cannot pile charged upon charges like in the US.
Also, prosecutor is not a political office, they have no incentive to frame you, on the contrary their career suffers if they are found to have helped convict an innocent man.
There are no plea bargains either. No prosecutor can just wing it, he must make his case.
In Italy you can even demand to get another judge if you think he is not imparrtial.
So please, their system might be fucked up and yes innocent people go to jail, but to claim that they get worse results than the US system is ridiculous.
[/quote]
I know because you are automatically assumed guilty there, so you have to prove your innocence. Here, you have to prove guilt, which is not as easy as it looks. BTW, it might take Amanda Knox 5 yrs before an appeal is even considered, not granted, but just considered. They go easy on small crime, but serious stuff, they hammer you.
[quote]molnes wrote:
[quote]MaximusB wrote:
I knew she would be found guilty, their system of government is different than ours. Over there, you are guilty until proven innocent. [/quote]
This is just plain wrong. [/quote]
Why do you think this? She was interrogated quite aggressively without a lawyer present, she was pressured to plead guilty to make an easy case. Do you want a justice system like this?
[quote]MaximusB wrote:
[quote]molnes wrote:
[quote]MaximusB wrote:
I knew she would be found guilty, their system of government is different than ours. Over there, you are guilty until proven innocent. [/quote]
This is just plain wrong. [/quote]
Why do you think this? She was interrogated quite aggressively without a lawyer present, she was pressured to plead guilty to make an easy case. Do you want a justice system like this?[/quote]
I think it’s ridiculous to put the american justice system on a pedestal and to say that the italian system is bad in comparison. Especially when it’s done in such a simplistic manner.
There are strengths and weaknesses to both the adversarial type of court system in the US, which is more prone to manipulation, but has strengths like the right to be silent for example, and the inquisitorial system in Italy which is more likely to arrive at the correct decision, whether it being guilty or not guilty. But it is slightly tougher on the defendants due to various reasons such as tougher interrogations.
there’s just waaaayy too plenty of damning evidence related to her one way or another. 'til then, she appears guilty on the juries eyes.
[quote]orion wrote:
[quote]BigJawnMize wrote:
[quote]loppar wrote:
[quote]on edge wrote:
Read up on what it’s like for an unsuspecting person to suddenly be thrown into hours of intense interrogation against trained “professionals”. Also, read up on the details of how she supposedly confessed. My take on it is that she was desperate for them to stop when they basically said “Tell us how you might imagine it happening if you had been there”. The story she concocted, btw, did not fit in any way with the crime scene and especially, the real killer wasn’t mentioned.
[/quote]
Actually, she made up a very detailed account by which she accused Patrick Lumumba, the bar owner, for killing Meredith. Not something you’d do when you’re “disoriented”.
Based on the information I read from the media, there were ample evidence against her and Sollecito.
She’s young and good looking, so what? Unfortunately, this shows how American public opinion is easily swayed by aggressive media campaigns and the mythical “celebrity” status.
OJ Simpson anyone?
[/quote]
Yeah…a lot of her story doesn’t jive. The only hang-up I have is that the confessed killer left forensic evidence everywhere in that room and Knox and her boyfreind left no evidence of being in the room. What I think happened was that they were in the house; probably heard the struggle; didn’t know exactly what was going on but imagined that someone might have been armed; were afraid and didn’t know what to do; and didn’t act. Probably was not guilty of murder but was definitely in the wrong to just stand-by. My thoughts.
The lower-level Italian courts are nuts, but it is easy to appeal. I have heard (lived in Italy for a few months)that the standard of law in the higher courts is closer to an American standard. [/quote]
pst…
Are you sure that the higher US courts are up to the Italian standard?
They do not have a case law so their higher judges do not tend to be politicians.
[/quote]
Touche…You could be right.
Look she will have an opportunity to appeal. The Italians will stretch this shit out so that she serves a couple more years in prison; then say that she was guilty of some lessor crime but not of murder; and reduce her sentence to time served.
Unfortuanely for Knox this shit has been tit-for-tat between the US and Italian legal systems for some time. The prior item to this was Italy convicting all the US CIA agents in the extraordinary rendetion case.
[quote]BigJawnMize wrote:
[quote]orion wrote:
[quote]BigJawnMize wrote:
[quote]loppar wrote:
[quote]on edge wrote:
Read up on what it’s like for an unsuspecting person to suddenly be thrown into hours of intense interrogation against trained “professionals”. Also, read up on the details of how she supposedly confessed. My take on it is that she was desperate for them to stop when they basically said “Tell us how you might imagine it happening if you had been there”. The story she concocted, btw, did not fit in any way with the crime scene and especially, the real killer wasn’t mentioned.
[/quote]
Actually, she made up a very detailed account by which she accused Patrick Lumumba, the bar owner, for killing Meredith. Not something you’d do when you’re “disoriented”.
Based on the information I read from the media, there were ample evidence against her and Sollecito.
She’s young and good looking, so what? Unfortunately, this shows how American public opinion is easily swayed by aggressive media campaigns and the mythical “celebrity” status.
OJ Simpson anyone?
[/quote]
Yeah…a lot of her story doesn’t jive. The only hang-up I have is that the confessed killer left forensic evidence everywhere in that room and Knox and her boyfreind left no evidence of being in the room. What I think happened was that they were in the house; probably heard the struggle; didn’t know exactly what was going on but imagined that someone might have been armed; were afraid and didn’t know what to do; and didn’t act. Probably was not guilty of murder but was definitely in the wrong to just stand-by. My thoughts.
The lower-level Italian courts are nuts, but it is easy to appeal. I have heard (lived in Italy for a few months)that the standard of law in the higher courts is closer to an American standard. [/quote]
pst…
Are you sure that the higher US courts are up to the Italian standard?
They do not have a case law so their higher judges do not tend to be politicians.
[/quote]
Touche…You could be right.
Look she will have an opportunity to appeal. The Italians will stretch this shit out so that she serves a couple more years in prison; then say that she was guilty of some lessor crime but not of murder; and reduce her sentence to time served.
Unfortuanely for Knox this shit has been tit-for-tat between the US and Italian legal systems for some time. The prior item to this was Italy convicting all the US CIA agents in the extraordinary rendetion case. [/quote]
You could be right, they will stretch this thing for years, and perhaps let her go. They could take the position of, as long as she serves some time for it justice is served. I am curious to know, the family of the victim was awarded a settlement, who paid for it? I highly doubt that the Knox family had that kind of money to pay in restitution.
I’m not an expert on the case, but this article says a lot. Doesn’t make her sound too innocent:
[quote]Damici wrote:
I’m not an expert on the case, but this article says a lot. Doesn’t make her sound too innocent:
[/quote]
Sounds guilty as all get out to me.
The circumstantial evidence against her is devastating. I bet most guys here who so passionately defend her were mad at the 95 OJ jury for being biased because of being black, thats quite ironic…
As for the justice system discussion, european countries certainly have no laws to lock someone up for life for committing a petty crime for the third time, they dont give 16 year old kids life without parole, or ridiculous 20 years+ sentences for drug offenses. Additionally, in european prison you dont have to be afraid of being raped or murdered. Which system is the better one? Are you kiddin me?
And the lesson learned is to not fuck up in any country outside the US and Canada.
The US news reporting on this case have been sensasionalist (I’m not sure if FOX actually qualifies as a legitimate source of news) to say the least. Cue lots of anti-italian chest beating…America has the finest judicial system in the world etc…
Knox is about as innocent as OJ. I would suggest that if you had followed this story from the start and perhaps reviewed news sources not eminating largely/solely from the US then you may have a different perspective.
It seems that there are a lot of people on this forum who appear to be qualified to practice law in Italy…
[quote]Ken Kaniff wrote:
The circumstantial evidence against her is devastating. I bet most guys here who so passionately defend her were mad at the 95 OJ jury for being biased because of being black, thats quite ironic…
[/quote]
List the circumstantial evidence then.
[quote]Ken Kaniff wrote:
As for the justice system discussion, european countries certainly have no laws to lock someone up for life for committing a petty crime for the third time, they dont give 16 year old kids life without parole, or ridiculous 20 years+ sentences for drug offenses. Additionally, in european prison you dont have to be afraid of being raped or murdered. Which system is the better one? Are you kiddin me?[/quote]
Hmm so don’t be a criminal and you are better off in the US?
And since when are teenagers given 20+ year sentences for drug offenses? From what I have seen it is only the drive by ghetto gangbangers who are given long sentences. In fact having small quantities of drugs is usually only a misdemeanor.
On the other hand if someone states they don’t believe 6 million Jews were gassed you drag them off to prison 
In fact in Germany they are anal about everything. A friend was dragged to court because of a messy yard. Yeah its certainly a much better system :S
[quote]goryo13 wrote:
there’s just waaaayy too plenty of damning evidence related to her one way or another. 'til then, she appears guilty on the juries eyes.[/quote]
Can you name any of this damning evidence?
Come on, she tried to pin this on an innocent man…
Edit: Her story at first was that she wasn’t there that night. When she realized that the police could show she had been there at least once that night, her story become one of a kidnapping, rape, and murder by her boss. The investigation ended up with a solid alibi for this guy. And, and, it wasn’t even his DNA on this girl’s body. A girl he had supposedly raped. Come on…
You men claiming she is innocent, are you sure it’s not just because she’s a young, attractive American broad?
Are you double sure?
Also, how is 26 years excessive for murder, even by American standards?
[quote]Sloth wrote:
Come on, she tried to pin this on an innocent man…
Edit: Her story at first was that she wasn’t there that night. When she realized that the police could show she had been there at least once that night, her story become one of a kidnapping, rape, and murder by her boss. The investigation ended up with a solid alibi for this guy. And, and, it wasn’t even his DNA on this girl’s body. A girl he had supposedly raped. Come on… [/quote]
This coerced confession you are speaking of wasn’t even allowed as evidence. Try again.
[quote]on edge wrote:
[quote]Sloth wrote:
Come on, she tried to pin this on an innocent man…
Edit: Her story at first was that she wasn’t there that night. When she realized that the police could show she had been there at least once that night, her story become one of a kidnapping, rape, and murder by her boss. The investigation ended up with a solid alibi for this guy. And, and, it wasn’t even his DNA on this girl’s body. A girl he had supposedly raped. Come on… [/quote]
This coerced confession you are speaking of wasn’t even allowed as evidence. Try again.[/quote]
[quote]Sloth wrote:
[quote]on edge wrote:
[quote]Sloth wrote:
Come on, she tried to pin this on an innocent man…
Edit: Her story at first was that she wasn’t there that night. When she realized that the police could show she had been there at least once that night, her story become one of a kidnapping, rape, and murder by her boss. The investigation ended up with a solid alibi for this guy. And, and, it wasn’t even his DNA on this girl’s body. A girl he had supposedly raped. Come on… [/quote]
This coerced confession you are speaking of wasn’t even allowed as evidence. Try again.[/quote]
Ok.
http://www.truejustice.org/ee/index.php?/tjmk/C356/[/quote]
Despite it’s lengthliness there’s very little evidence presented in that blog. For motive, even the author conceded there is none.
The DNA evidence ranged from shaky to laughable. The most incriminating DNA was the boys DNA on the bra strap yet it is very well documented that the bra strap was poorly handled. It was moved several times and transfered in a box containing a mix of several other items. Taken with the lack of other evidence placing the boy at the crime scene, it becomes more probable that DNA is a product of mishandling, not of him having a hand in the crime.
Merideth’s DNA on the knife in the boys apartment. Defense experts testified that there wasn’t enough DNA to be conclusive about anything. Concluding it was Meredith’s, according to them was a huge reach. Not evidence, but the author claimed that residue of bleach on the knife (and in the boys apartment) indicated an attempt to cover up the crime. Being clean is not a crime and bleach destroys DNA anyway, so that indicates the knife was cleaned with bleach before the (supposed) DNA got on there, thus, no cover up.
Amanda’s DNA in the bathroom and 3rd roommates room. This is where it gets laughable. Amanda’s DNA is all over that house she lives there. The bathroom??? I guarantee you if you throw some blood around in your bathroom then take some swabs you’re going to find your DNA. Of course they found hers.
The author took some liberties in talking about the DNA. He tried to act like Amanda’s blood was mixed with Meredith’s. Absolutely not. It was DNA not blood. He concludes this because he believes “dead skin cells do not contain DNA”. I hope not many people read his blog 'cause he’s an idiot.
I’d like to address the alleged cover up but I’ve got to go. Hopefully someone will do it for me. If not, I’ll try to get to it tomorrow.