On second thought, it is the market economy that makes us as self sufficient as we will ever be.
Is this perhaps why governments tend to want to control them?
[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
“Self sufficient” people are government’s greatest threat.[/quote]
While that may be true my life does not involve threatening my Government . I want to live a good life with all the freedom I can get . I understand the more people I like to be around the more laws I will have to abide .
[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
On second thought, it is the market economy that makes us as self sufficient as we will ever be.
Is this perhaps why governments tend to want to control them?[/quote]
Self sufficiency is an aspect of the free market I do not understand. why is it good for an individual but not a country
What a stupid bunch of generalizations.
[quote]HoustonGuy wrote:
What a stupid bunch of generalizations.[/quote]
Don’t generalize our generalizations.
I thought acoupla those were really funny. Zeb’s is pretty funny too. =]
How bout Detroit style resource redistribution: You have no cows, no job, no food, no car and no money, but your neighbor who also doesn’t have any of those things breaks into your HUD apartment so he can beat you and your family to death with a piece of pipe he got from an abandoned building, while stealing your broken microwave, your tattered tigers cap, your Linkin Park CD and your cherished “YES WE CAN” lawn sign you got from A.C.O.R.N. during the 08 campaign.
EDIT: A quick clarification folks. That wasn’t exactly meant to be funny. This city is a tragic monument to social libertarianism and economic liberalism which are 2 sides of the same coin.
[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
This city is a tragic monument to social libertarianism and economic liberalism which are 2 sides of the same coin.[/quote]
Nope, sorry. Don’t pass it off as the fault of libertarianism.
It is a tragic monument to automobile fascism.
FASCISM: Your neighbor owns two cows; you’re not allowed to own cows and must get all your beef and dairy from him.
[quote]pittbulll wrote:
[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
On second thought, it is the market economy that makes us as self sufficient as we will ever be.
Is this perhaps why governments tend to want to control them?[/quote]
Self sufficiency is an aspect of the free market I do not understand. why is it good for an individual but not a country
[/quote]
I don’t think self sufficiency is necessarily good or bad. It is just an ideal that means we do not have to be dependent upon others for our satisfaction of wants. In believe our humanity is necessarily tied to our interdependence upon the division of labor in those satisfaction of wants.
Besides this, self sufficiency is tempered by the desire for leisure time.
Capitalism is a doctrine that teaches us that humans only have so much capacity for work; this is why we accumulate capital – to save labor. This would not be possible without a division of labor.
[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
This city is a tragic monument to social libertarianism and economic liberalism which are 2 sides of the same coin.[/quote]
Nope, sorry. Don’t pass it off as the fault of libertarianism.
It is a tragic monument to automobile fascism.[/quote]Sloth is better at this one than I am though he may be tired of saying it. The rotting corpse of the once mighty motor city is the direct consequence of the degenerative double edged sword of sexual promiscuity being literally financed by leftist social welfare spending. Children running the streets as feral beasts with no sound family structure whatsoever. It is, at bottom, no more complicated than that.
Awwww here we go again. “What laws would I suggest blah blah blah”.
[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
This city is a tragic monument to social libertarianism and economic liberalism which are 2 sides of the same coin.[/quote]
Nope, sorry. Don’t pass it off as the fault of libertarianism.
It is a tragic monument to automobile fascism.[/quote]Sloth is better at this one than I am though he may be tired of saying it. The rotting corpse of the once mighty motor city is the direct consequence of the degenerative double edged sword of sexual promiscuity being literally financed by leftist social welfare spending. Children running the streets as feral beasts with no sound family structure whatsoever. It is, at bottom, no more complicated than that.
Awwww here we go again. “What laws would I suggest blah blah blah”.[/quote]
I believe the decline of Detroit happened more like this:
-
The automobile industry booms
-
The automobile industry lobbies government for protection
-
The automobile industry becomes too bloated and dependent upon government and slowly starts to go bankrupt thus impoverishing a once thriving city.
-
Democrats and Republicans move in to “save” the city by throwing money into “social” programs.
-
???
-
profit!
[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
This city is a tragic monument to social libertarianism and economic liberalism which are 2 sides of the same coin.[/quote]
Nope, sorry. Don’t pass it off as the fault of libertarianism.
It is a tragic monument to automobile fascism.[/quote]Sloth is better at this one than I am though he may be tired of saying it. The rotting corpse of the once mighty motor city is the direct consequence of the degenerative double edged sword of sexual promiscuity being literally financed by leftist social welfare spending. Children running the streets as feral beasts with no sound family structure whatsoever. It is, at bottom, no more complicated than that.
Awwww here we go again. “What laws would I suggest blah blah blah”.[/quote]
I believe the decline of Detroit happened more like this:
-
The automobile industry booms
-
The automobile industry lobbies government for protection
-
The automobile industry becomes too bloated and dependent upon government and slowly starts to go bankrupt thus impoverishing a once thriving city.
-
Democrats and Republicans move in to “save” the city by throwing money into “social” programs.
-
???
-
profit![/quote]
I think it comes down to price , I bought my first Toyota in 1990 Brand new Pick up for less than $6000 . I know their prices are very American now but their quality is extreme
[quote]pittbulll wrote:
[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
This city is a tragic monument to social libertarianism and economic liberalism which are 2 sides of the same coin.[/quote]
Nope, sorry. Don’t pass it off as the fault of libertarianism.
It is a tragic monument to automobile fascism.[/quote]Sloth is better at this one than I am though he may be tired of saying it. The rotting corpse of the once mighty motor city is the direct consequence of the degenerative double edged sword of sexual promiscuity being literally financed by leftist social welfare spending. Children running the streets as feral beasts with no sound family structure whatsoever. It is, at bottom, no more complicated than that.
Awwww here we go again. “What laws would I suggest blah blah blah”.[/quote]
I believe the decline of Detroit happened more like this:
-
The automobile industry booms
-
The automobile industry lobbies government for protection
-
The automobile industry becomes too bloated and dependent upon government and slowly starts to go bankrupt thus impoverishing a once thriving city.
-
Democrats and Republicans move in to “save” the city by throwing money into “social” programs.
-
???
-
profit![/quote]
I think it comes down to price , I bought my first Toyota in 1990 Brand new Pick up for less than $6000 . I know their prices are very American now but their quality is extreme
[/quote]
Price is a reflection of protectionist legislation.
[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
[quote]pittbulll wrote:
[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
This city is a tragic monument to social libertarianism and economic liberalism which are 2 sides of the same coin.[/quote]
Nope, sorry. Don’t pass it off as the fault of libertarianism.
It is a tragic monument to automobile fascism.[/quote]Sloth is better at this one than I am though he may be tired of saying it. The rotting corpse of the once mighty motor city is the direct consequence of the degenerative double edged sword of sexual promiscuity being literally financed by leftist social welfare spending. Children running the streets as feral beasts with no sound family structure whatsoever. It is, at bottom, no more complicated than that.
Awwww here we go again. “What laws would I suggest blah blah blah”.[/quote]
I believe the decline of Detroit happened more like this:
-
The automobile industry booms
-
The automobile industry lobbies government for protection
-
The automobile industry becomes too bloated and dependent upon government and slowly starts to go bankrupt thus impoverishing a once thriving city.
-
Democrats and Republicans move in to “save” the city by throwing money into “social” programs.
-
???
-
profit![/quote]
I think it comes down to price , I bought my first Toyota in 1990 Brand new Pick up for less than $6000 . I know their prices are very American now but their quality is extreme
[/quote]
Price is a reflection of protectionist legislation.[/quote]
I am for fair competition , until our markey is free (which will be never) fair is the best we can do . If I make steel in America and it costs me a hundred dollars a ton to comply with American Regulations , then any one that wants to compete either pays a tax or shows they comply with the same standards
[quote]pittbulll wrote:
shows they comply with the same standards
[/quote]
Whose standards?
What if the standards chosen actually interfere with the market in a way that would not otherwise have happened and people suffer because of it?
Shouldn’t the market decide what the standards should be? Don’t prices already help signal this to consumers?
[quote]pittbulll wrote:
I am for fair competition , until our markey is free (which will be never) fair is the best we can do . If I make steel in America and it costs me a hundred dollars a ton to comply with American Regulations , then any one that wants to compete either pays a tax or shows they comply with the same standards
[/quote]
You expect other nations to follow you on the path to economic suicide?
Or else you wont trade with them.
That sounds… hollow.
[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
[quote]pittbulll wrote:
shows they comply with the same standards
[/quote]
Whose standards?
What if the standards chosen actually interfere with the market in a way that would not otherwise have happened and people suffer because of it?
Shouldn’t the market decide what the standards should be? Don’t prices already help signal this to consumers?[/quote]
Air and water pollution standards, I do not think the Industry has the scruples to self police. Now pollution from the third world countries are becoming an issue to us all.
[quote]orion wrote:
[quote]pittbulll wrote:
I am for fair competition , until our markey is free (which will be never) fair is the best we can do . If I make steel in America and it costs me a hundred dollars a ton to comply with American Regulations , then any one that wants to compete either pays a tax or shows they comply with the same standards
[/quote]
You expect other nations to follow you on the path to economic suicide?
Or else you wont trade with them.
That sounds… hollow.[/quote]
If I were king of America , they would play by American rules or not be in American Market place
[quote]pittbulll wrote:
[quote]orion wrote:
[quote]pittbulll wrote:
I am for fair competition , until our markey is free (which will be never) fair is the best we can do . If I make steel in America and it costs me a hundred dollars a ton to comply with American Regulations , then any one that wants to compete either pays a tax or shows they comply with the same standards
[/quote]
You expect other nations to follow you on the path to economic suicide?
Or else you wont trade with them.
That sounds… hollow.[/quote]
If I were king of America , they would play by American rules or not be in American Market place
[/quote]
Well, if you are facing a collapse, why not get it over with?
I see you are of the “rip the band aid off” persuasion.
It is also quite humanitarian, given that the Chinese will have no choice but to, gasp, consume the fruits of their own labor…
Will they survive no longer subsidizing America?
Only time will tell…
By which I mean, hell yeah!
[quote]orion wrote:
[quote]pittbulll wrote:
[quote]orion wrote:
[quote]pittbulll wrote:
I am for fair competition , until our markey is free (which will be never) fair is the best we can do . If I make steel in America and it costs me a hundred dollars a ton to comply with American Regulations , then any one that wants to compete either pays a tax or shows they comply with the same standards
[/quote]
You expect other nations to follow you on the path to economic suicide?
Or else you wont trade with them.
That sounds… hollow.[/quote]
If I were king of America , they would play by American rules or not be in American Market place
[/quote]
Well, if you are facing a collapse, why not get it over with?
I see you are of the “rip the band aid off” persuasion.
It is also quite humanitarian, given that the Chinese will have no choice but to, gasp, consume the fruits of their own labor…
Will they survive no longer subsidizing America?
Only time will tell…
By which I mean, hell yeah!
[/quote]
The steel industry was strong , they saved money by dealing with no environmental regulations and poverty wages . That is not a free market when you require something for business in your country and not the same for importers .
One thing I would do also is no Corporate Income tax . But corporations could not shield wealth from taxes that is actually personal income