Venezuela's Collapse

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
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In 2012, The BBC seriously reported the Chavez government claim that the attempt to confiscate guns was “an attempt to cut crime and increase security.” Seriously.

Wow. Hey nice people at the BBC, he’s not attempting to “cut crime” He’s consolidating power and disarming citizens who would stand against the corrupt regime that is literally starving them.

“Disarm for peace.” Of course, Maduro has since begun issuing military issue arms to his “militia” to fight the “imperialist aggressors.” Cue Mussollini, right? History repeats.

We can be sure that law abiding people suddenly become roving gangs or ATM robbers when they have firearms. Nobody is afraid to take the family and drive through Montana, Idaho or Wyoming on vacation even though you can be pretty sure that those places are HEAVILY armed.

Something is different about Caracas (and a few urban areas in the US for that matter). It’s complete mayhem. They are stealing 175 cars per day in Venezuela. I’m pretty sure that’s not happening in Helena or Boise.

Venezuela bans private gun ownership - BBC News

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Two terms of President Elizabeth Warren ought to do it.

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Bernie turns to Lizzie and says “you know, you’re too far left.”

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You are very correct, I was in Haiti with something similiar.

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I agree. Tyranny isnt repelled by plowshares.

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I was one of the ones arming them. The second time they came back for mass rape and murder, we killed 18 of them, strange, that village was not ever attacked again, especially after putting a few of their heads on stakes outside the village. Some of you may think that is horrible, maybe it sis, but I have no compassion for “men” who rape children.

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Talking financial meltdown? I don’t know. I can imagine that our national debt is no longer serviceable, Gov siezes retirement funds and “manages them” for us? Runaway inflation? People were more than happy to see Gov control/ serious rejiggering of large sectors of our economy (healthcare and energy) under Obama. It really wouldn’t take an evil character like a Maduro or Castro. Just some ineptitude timed with some disaster? There are always individuals who think they can manage the economy better, and a crisis or disaster gives them a reason.

When you look at pictures of empty grocery stores, or civil unrest? You could be dealing with an epidemic, terrorism, war, localized stuff like earthquakes. We’ve seen empty grocery stores during hurricanes, right? Mostly you think of short term things. I think very few people are really prepared for the idea of even a short term disruption of the food supply from something like a chemical or biological warfare, or even severe drought or natural disaster.

I do think about these things, but most people think it’s pretty crazy to consider what you’d do to keep your family safe in the event of some of these scenarios.

My friend told me that he knows of people with health conditions like diabetes that have died in Venezuela. I thought of the novel sci fi. novel Alas, Babylon. Excellent read if any of you haven’t read it. It’s not always easy (or legal) to store essential medicines, fuel, etc… Things you’d want and need if you thought you were going to have to weather some kind of situation for even 3 months.

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Not at all. With people like that you have to shatter their soul and imprint on their viscera what happens when they cross the line.

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Nope, fuck’em–Let the heads sit out there collecting flies. I am totally on board. Good work sir. Less rapists and pedophiles there are the better.

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This is far off the Venezuela topic, just thinking about collapse. What does a world without the US as a superpower look like?

You have:
Europe: Basically Germany, UK and France. The PIGS are worthless.
Russia: Some military might but a hollow corrupt economy.
China: The new defacto superpower. There would be a protracted economic downturn with no US to sell junk to…

So would it be China vs Russia all over the world fighting for trade and influence?

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Hi Gainz. I’ve been thinking about your question. Really, Russia and China have so many human rights violations, they cannot be an option. Any nation that jails or executes dissenters, can’t be the leader of the world. The US is the only option.

Even if you think about combined forces like NATO or the UN Peacekeepers, you have to look at who funds them. The US continues to lead. Here’s NATO as a percentage of GDP.

With regard to the UN, even if you hoped that we could someday evolve into people who can feel allegiance behind a global force so far from home, and trust that it would really be just in its representation of the interests of our little corner of the world…

I found this from 2015.

"Each year the United States gives approximately $8 billion in mandatory payments and voluntary contributions to the United Nations and its affiliated organizations. The biggest portion of this money – about $3 billion this year – goes to the U.N.’s regular and peacekeeping budgets.

… the U.S. is assessed 22 percent of the regular budget (approximately $622 million) and over 28 percent of the peacekeeping budget (approximately $2.402 billion)."

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No. It’s terrible that we sometimes must meet violence with violence, but sometimes we have to stand up for the defenseless. It’s the ethical and kind thing to stop ethnic cleansing, or the rape and murder of innocent children. It’s ethical to defend our own families, our freedoms, our human rights, from those who would destroy.

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I was trying to imagine a world where the US had gone to pot like Venezuela is now. The conclusion I’m coming to is that something that could hurt the US that bad would probably cripple everywhere else too. Being raised here I can’t imagine a world without the US

I don’t know what to think about NATO and the UN. I feel if it ever came to WW3 the rest of the Western nations would wuss out and it would be USA vs China/Russia all by our lonesome.

Well Rome was a superpower for a long time. They had slavery and executed dissenters. England had an oppressive empire for some time as well.

We are spoiled to live on such a free place (for now). We want to project that onto the rest of the world sometimes with great results: Japan. Sometimes with disastrous consequences: Iraq.

Individual sovereignty is a really radical concept in practice, it’s damn messy. China has never had non-oppressive rule. I don’t think the subjects really truly care to. At least not yet.

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The problem with collectivism (in any form or extreme, from benign to fascist or Soviet-style communism) is it does not generate sufficient income to run itself.

You can get away with a bit by a couple of means: (1) using other peoples’ money (either domestic or by invasion of others and taking their stuff (2) relying on a state resource (e.g., oil), or (3) a combination of 1 & 2.

Hitler ran on #1 (using Jews’ and other “undesirables’” stuff), as did the Soviet Union (with a fair bit of #2). Victims (internal and external) fought back against Hitler and won, and the Soviets simply ran out of stuff to steal. Oil also hit them hard.

Norway is doing OK with #2 (oil, again), but the market is catching up. They also had the benefit of a homogeneous population, but that has changed, so there are now more takers among them. So they have a while to go before they go belly up., but not as long as you would think.

Venezuela was a #2 (oil, albeit stolen from companies that developed it, so it’s a blend), and has hit a hard collapse. I don’t see a recovery.

Israel started out as socialist, but had neither #1 nor #2, so we switched to market capitalism and we’re doing fine for a country mainly made up of originally-penniless immigrants, so counties can see the error of their ways and get out of their mess.

The populist allure of socialism (in any form) is great. It hits one in the feels. But it just doesn’t work. The people that make things “go” are the 1-5% of people who have the right combination of hard work, brains, guts, and some luck (albeit usually self-made luck). If you make it where they don’t have an incentive to bust their balls (and call them evil “1%s”) then they go look for greener pastures.

It’s a lesson oft-unlearned for 150+ years (and more, if you count disasters like early Jamestown and other various small-scale experiments in collectivism).

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You’re a hero in my book.

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Shit, that’s one problem. The other larger problem is it was created to work on a species of human that does not exist. We’d have to genetically engineer human robots who are happy with just barely enough…

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Update.

It’s looking like an action movie over there. Oscar Perez, the hero. Unreal. He’s resurface this week. You have to love him.

The last stand against loosing their constitutional government. Maduro controls the courts and the military. The brave opposition in the National Assembly mobbed by Maduro supporters. They’re the only thing standing in the way as Maduro attempts to rewrite the constitution. Things just getting more violent there, if that’s possible.

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He better watch out. If there’s one thing Marxist governments are good at it is secret police. If they capture him he better chew on a cyanide capsule like the James Bond character he’s trying to be.

The rise and fall of this government has been faster than I thought it would. Cuba has lasted a long time. Maduro could be with us for decades if he gets this rewrite.

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The difference is Cuba had allies early on. Venezuela even pisses off the communists. They are trying to be commie +1 and its clearly failing. The doubling down on it by Maduro would be funny if it wasn’t so tragic for so many. The good news for Venezuelans is that the government is very corrupt and the police can still be bought, unlike Casto’s Cuba. Of course, he had the support of the USSR, Venezuela has the support of NKorea. Big difference.

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Here is an example of the family toll:

Its similar to us Cold War children experienced. Having you family followed and threatened. Not as bad as Venezuela. The Eastern Bloc was not as violent as Venezuela, but harassment did go on. And suffering from a decades long travel ban, we never were allowed to go and see my extended family.

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