Utah Turning to Gold/Silver

[quote]ZEB wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]ZEB wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]ZEB wrote:

[quote]dnlcdstn wrote:
ZEB wrote:
I’m a contrarian, when people are running away I am running toward and vice versa. Right now there are enough people around like you who are scared of the future to make stocks fairly cheap so I buy.

You are becoming one of my favorite posters.
[/quote]

Thanks man. It’s just a matter of out thinking the pack. And if you look at history the pack is always wrong.

[/quote]

Ironic[/quote]

orion you’re confused I see. Because one has an important part to play within the pack does not mean that he must invest with the pack.

Any questions?

Let me know my friend.
[/quote]

Well no, but “the pack” apparently still believes that the US will pay back its debt, that they will get their pension checks and free healthcare whereas those who get what is actually going on stampede out of the dollar and towards Asia.
[/quote]

I’m sorry I thought I was clear with one of my previous posts. I was speaking exclusively about the stock market. How I have played it in the past successfully and how anyone with enough guts, and some money, can do the same thing. And in this case, when the DOW hit 6000 people were obviously scrambling out to drive it to that low level. That is my reference to “the pack.”

Hopefully this clarifies things for you. It’s a great strategy try it.

Zeb
[/quote]

I know, but in my case you would have an added currency risk and that is just not worth it in the moment.

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]ZEB wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]ZEB wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]ZEB wrote:

[quote]dnlcdstn wrote:
ZEB wrote:
I’m a contrarian, when people are running away I am running toward and vice versa. Right now there are enough people around like you who are scared of the future to make stocks fairly cheap so I buy.

You are becoming one of my favorite posters.
[/quote]

Thanks man. It’s just a matter of out thinking the pack. And if you look at history the pack is always wrong.

[/quote]

Ironic[/quote]

orion you’re confused I see. Because one has an important part to play within the pack does not mean that he must invest with the pack.

Any questions?

Let me know my friend.
[/quote]

Well no, but “the pack” apparently still believes that the US will pay back its debt, that they will get their pension checks and free healthcare whereas those who get what is actually going on stampede out of the dollar and towards Asia.
[/quote]

I’m sorry I thought I was clear with one of my previous posts. I was speaking exclusively about the stock market. How I have played it in the past successfully and how anyone with enough guts, and some money, can do the same thing. And in this case, when the DOW hit 6000 people were obviously scrambling out to drive it to that low level. That is my reference to “the pack.”

Hopefully this clarifies things for you. It’s a great strategy try it.

Zeb
[/quote]

I know, but in my case you would have an added currency risk and that is just not worth it in the moment.

[/quote]

What’s the latest rate difference between the two currencies?

[quote]dnlcdstn wrote:

[quote]Headhunter wrote:

[quote]dnlcdstn wrote:

[quote]ZEB wrote:
I’m a contrarian, when people are running away I am running toward and vice versa. Right now there are enough people around like you who are scared of the future to make stocks fairly cheap so I buy.

You are becoming one of my favorite posters.
[/quote]

Ummm…bullishness on Wall Street was quite recently at or near an all-time high. The herd is buying. (But corporate insiders are selling in DROVES, to the fools.)

Listen to Zeb = get head handed to you on a plate
[/quote]

If you’re so worried about the end of the world why don’t you quit buying gold and buy ammunition and arms? What about a farm in the middle of nowhere so you can grow your own food?
What the fuck is gold gonna do for you when no one can buy it from you? Do you plan on making something out of this gold? Some golden slippers?

On the other hand you may be Zeb’s alter ego and try to scare more people so you can buy more stock.

I mean, if the stock market evaporates and shit hits the fan we’re all fucked. That’s why I have a firearm and I will do what I have to to provide. Until then I plan on investing (not just stock market) because when you are wrong, I will be wealthier. [/quote]

Hmmm…if the above is an example of your analytic abilities, I want to short the stocks that you (and Zebbie) are buying.

Insiders are selling like crazy. That alone should tell you something, dude. The people who RUN THE COMPANIES are selling to fools like you and Zeb. Wonder why?

The head of PIMCO, the largest bond fund in the world, just got rid of ALL US gov’t debt instruments. Wonder why?

But, by all means, buy everything. Hey, there’s lots of Cleveland real estate for sale. Yeah, buy that. Cleveland has a great future.

ROFLMAO!!

I will just say it provides for market value not just face value, if I’m reading it correctly.

Headhunter,

It would really help if you had just a basic fundamental understanding of the US Stock Market, but you don’t. You read, or should I say misread a few broad indicators and it sends you into a panic. I know how much I’ve made in the market playing it just as I have described. And that isn’t pretend money my friend, it’s real. And I’ve purchased lots of real things with it which has enhanced my life-style. So, there is a huge disconnect between what you are saying and what I’ve actually been able to do. Maybe someone else will buy into your theories, but as for me I’ll keep doing what’s given me incredible returns and that is buying US stocks when others (like you) are running away from them.

I have an easy solution to this dispute.

ZEB. Offer to buy “Headhunter stocks” in 2013 based on a Dow Jones of 5000. Once you two have agreed the price, one of you will make a bundle.

TQB

And I expect a beer from the winner.

Edit: that would be “buy”. I started celebrating early

[quote]ZEB wrote:
Headhunter,

It would really help if you had just a basic fundamental understanding of the US Stock Market, but you don’t. You read, or should I say misread a few broad indicators and it sends you into a panic. I know how much I’ve made in the market playing it just as I have described. And that isn’t pretend money my friend, it’s real. And I’ve purchased lots of real things with it which has enhanced my life-style. So, there is a huge disconnect between what you are saying and what I’ve actually been able to do. Maybe someone else will buy into your theories, but as for me I’ll keep doing what’s given me incredible returns and that is buying US stocks when others (like you) are running away from them.
[/quote]

Would you be willing to expound upon your method for stock market investing? My curiosity is stimulated.

[quote]cloakmanor wrote:

[quote]ZEB wrote:
Headhunter,

It would really help if you had just a basic fundamental understanding of the US Stock Market, but you don’t. You read, or should I say misread a few broad indicators and it sends you into a panic. I know how much I’ve made in the market playing it just as I have described. And that isn’t pretend money my friend, it’s real. And I’ve purchased lots of real things with it which has enhanced my life-style. So, there is a huge disconnect between what you are saying and what I’ve actually been able to do. Maybe someone else will buy into your theories, but as for me I’ll keep doing what’s given me incredible returns and that is buying US stocks when others (like you) are running away from them.
[/quote]

Would you be willing to expound upon your method for stock market investing? My curiosity is stimulated.
[/quote]

He buys high PE stocks and M&A stocks. Dow Theory aside, he makes a bundle.
LOL!!

[quote]cloakmanor wrote:

[quote]ZEB wrote:
Headhunter,

It would really help if you had just a basic fundamental understanding of the US Stock Market, but you don’t. You read, or should I say misread a few broad indicators and it sends you into a panic. I know how much I’ve made in the market playing it just as I have described. And that isn’t pretend money my friend, it’s real. And I’ve purchased lots of real things with it which has enhanced my life-style. So, there is a huge disconnect between what you are saying and what I’ve actually been able to do. Maybe someone else will buy into your theories, but as for me I’ll keep doing what’s given me incredible returns and that is buying US stocks when others (like you) are running away from them.
[/quote]

Would you be willing to expound upon your method for stock market investing? My curiosity is stimulated.
[/quote]

Sure I can give you a basic understanding. I posted this earlier in the thread:

It’s just a matter of out thinking the (investment) pack. And if you look at history the pack is always wrong. Therefore, it doesn’t take intelligence, just guts to continue to buy in the face of a falling market. Just keep in mind that one key to success in this style of investing is to leave yourself some serious cash on the sidelines as no one can predict the bottom of a market. I leave myself three plays per stock. The initial purchase and two other equal size buys in case it dips two more times. If you purchase a good stock at say $10 in a falling market wait for another large drop before you make your second buy. So if that $10 stock goes down another 25% to $7.50 buy an equal number of shares to what you own. Now wait for it to drop again even more significantly before you make your final buy. If it drops another 35% to 4.88 make your final buy.

Keep in mind I am talking about solid companies that are only going down because of a falling market. Not poorly run companies that are not making money. Therefore, make sure that you do some fundamental research before you make your play. And when the sheep are running away wringing their hands about inflation and the end of the world. You move in for the kill. The best part comes later when you sell them their stocks back, the one’s they abandoned, for a profit.

I’ve made a lot of money doing this over the past several years. And the way things look I have some good opportunity to continue to make even more.

Good Luck,

Zeb

[quote]Headhunter wrote:

[quote]cloakmanor wrote:

[quote]ZEB wrote:
Headhunter,

It would really help if you had just a basic fundamental understanding of the US Stock Market, but you don’t. You read, or should I say misread a few broad indicators and it sends you into a panic. I know how much I’ve made in the market playing it just as I have described. And that isn’t pretend money my friend, it’s real. And I’ve purchased lots of real things with it which has enhanced my life-style. So, there is a huge disconnect between what you are saying and what I’ve actually been able to do. Maybe someone else will buy into your theories, but as for me I’ll keep doing what’s given me incredible returns and that is buying US stocks when others (like you) are running away from them.
[/quote]

Would you be willing to expound upon your method for stock market investing? My curiosity is stimulated.
[/quote]

He buys high PE stocks and M&A stocks. Dow Theory aside, he makes a bundle.
LOL!!
[/quote]

I never laughed when you complained about being an under paid teacher. Hey we need good teachers. Yet, when someone does well in the market you think that’s funny? All of your wacky theories look good to you and other fringe characters ON THE INTERNET. However, when reality comes a knocking it seems that we have each achieved our worth in the open market. I don’t find that amusing, just very pleasing.

[quote]ZEB wrote:

[quote]cloakmanor wrote:

[quote]ZEB wrote:
Headhunter,

It would really help if you had just a basic fundamental understanding of the US Stock Market, but you don’t. You read, or should I say misread a few broad indicators and it sends you into a panic. I know how much I’ve made in the market playing it just as I have described. And that isn’t pretend money my friend, it’s real. And I’ve purchased lots of real things with it which has enhanced my life-style. So, there is a huge disconnect between what you are saying and what I’ve actually been able to do. Maybe someone else will buy into your theories, but as for me I’ll keep doing what’s given me incredible returns and that is buying US stocks when others (like you) are running away from them.
[/quote]

Would you be willing to expound upon your method for stock market investing? My curiosity is stimulated.
[/quote]

Sure I can give you a basic understanding. I posted this earlier in the thread:

It’s just a matter of out thinking the (investment) pack. And if you look at history the pack is always wrong. Therefore, it doesn’t take intelligence, just guts to continue to buy in the face of a falling market. Just keep in mind that one key to success in this style of investing is to leave yourself some serious cash on the sidelines as no one can predict the bottom of a market. I leave myself three plays per stock. The initial purchase and two other equal size buys in case it dips two more times. If you purchase a good stock at say $10 in a falling market wait for another large drop before you make your second buy. So if that $10 stock goes down another 25% to $7.50 buy an equal number of shares to what you own. Now wait for it to drop again even more significantly before you make your final buy. If it drops another 35% to 4.88 make your final buy.

Keep in mind I am talking about solid companies that are only going down because of a falling market. Not poorly run companies that are not making money. Therefore, make sure that you do some fundamental research before you make your play. And when the sheep are running away wringing their hands about inflation and the end of the world. You move in for the kill. The best part comes later when you sell them their stocks back, the one’s they abandoned, for a profit.

I’ve made a lot of money doing this over the past several years. And the way things look I have some good opportunity to continue to make even more.

Good Luck,

Zeb
[/quote]

The response is much appreciated. Apparently, I did not see your earlier post. My apologies.

I do recall Baron Rothschild once stating, “Buy when there is blood running in the streets.”

[quote]ZEB wrote:
Headhunter,

[Reams of text]
Zeb

[/quote]

Or to put it more simply for those of you that aren’t ZEB: You do not make money in the market by being smarter than everybody else. You make money by knowing to stop being stupid five minutes before everybody else. Selling just before a peak, buying just before a trough.

TQB

[quote]TQB wrote:

[quote]ZEB wrote:
Headhunter,

[Reams of text]
Zeb

[/quote]

Or to put it more simply for those of you that aren’t ZEB: You do not make money in the market by being smarter than everybody else. You make money by knowing to stop being stupid five minutes before everybody else. Selling just before a peak, buying just before a trough.

TQB[/quote]

I personally buy and own stocks that are selling for roughly half of the market multiple, or similar. Own Eli Lilly, ATT, Exxon, DuPont, Kimberly-Clark, Proctor & Gamble and have for a long time. Let the dividends buy more.

But I’m also a realist. I can’t outsmart the Fed and Wall Street pros. Many here think they can. To them, I wish good luck!

For that part of it, I no longer make fresh buys. I buy gold and silver. Their system is falling apart. People who own only stocks will get creamed, plain and simple. To them I wish: “Happy Begging!”

[quote]TQB wrote:

[quote]ZEB wrote:
Headhunter,

[Reams of text]
Zeb

[/quote]

Or to put it more simply for those of you that aren’t ZEB: You do not make money in the market by being smarter than everybody else. You make money by knowing to stop being stupid five minutes before everybody else. Selling just before a peak, buying just before a trough.

TQB[/quote]

As I said in my post above:

[quote]Headhunter wrote:

[quote]TQB wrote:

[quote]ZEB wrote:
Headhunter,

[Reams of text]
Zeb

[/quote]

Or to put it more simply for those of you that aren’t ZEB: You do not make money in the market by being smarter than everybody else. You make money by knowing to stop being stupid five minutes before everybody else. Selling just before a peak, buying just before a trough.

TQB[/quote]

I personally buy and own stocks that are selling for roughly half of the market multiple, or similar. Own Eli Lilly, ATT, Exxon, DuPont, Kimberly-Clark, Proctor & Gamble and have for a long time. Let the dividends buy more.

But I’m also a realist. I can’t outsmart the Fed and Wall Street pros. Many here think they can. To them, I wish good luck!

For that part of it, I no longer make fresh buys. I buy gold and silver. Their system is falling apart. People who own only stocks will get creamed, plain and simple. To them I wish: “Happy Begging!” [/quote]

One should NEVER put their total worth in the stock market and I never said anything to the contrary. And there’s nothing wrong with having a small portion of your assets in gold and silver, and I do. I also own a little real estate. The main idea of my post was to point out that when the masses are panicking there can be some good buying opportunities. In all fairness, doing the opposite of the pack is not all that radical.

Its late so I dont really want to post a page. I can tell Overstand is an econ major, good. I learned alot more valuable information from that major than if I would have taken up Business Mngt or something by comparison. The references to interest rates and all that you quoted, specifically with IS-LM curves is the same jargon I learned in college. I am sure they went over various monetarist and keynesian principles with you as evidenced.

For the most part though Keynesism is drastically flawed. First, the “multiplier” which most of the earlier models is based on assumes that money continues percolating throughout the economy. This looks good on graphs and in statistical models, but as evidenced by our attempt at a “stimulus” it does not work when the actors in question sit on the money. I am not even getting into the relative values of money yet either. So Trillions of dollars were injected into an economy, by a keynesian multiplier this should have greatly increased aggregate output.

Secondly, with a fiat currency you ARE at the whim of the government completley. Even to play Devils advocate, as you say the Fed does a wonderful job at its dual mandate of full employment and stable prices (more or less a crock of shit). Suppose you have events such as our current situation. To illustrate a similar instance, look at the Weimar republic. Now, one can say that the German economists at the time were flawed in their thoughts on monetary supply impacting prices, but the PEOPLE had no say in the loss of their own purchasing power for a government bailout. This alone is antithetical to a free market and leads into my next point.

The arguments which keynes, krugman, most modern economic policy are based on are flawed like a house built on sand. The statistical “models” and such assume that all actors in all markets will act in predictable fashions, thus conclusions can be extrapolated far beyond any sort of valid observation. For remedying this, and further educating yourself in your own field i would recommend the following:

Murray Rothbards: Man Economy and State. Most of what you currently assume about interest rates, prices etc will be changed. Money does not set interest rates, people do as a time preference.

I dont really want to summarize all of Rothbards theories here but I can leave you with one easy to understand analogy.

A business has to allocate resources to make a profit, thus resources will be allocated in the most efficient manner based on a valuation structure. Firms will make profits that allocate well and satisfy current/future consumer needs, certain firms will make just enough to meet the margins, others that cannot allocate to meet consumer needs will go out of business.

The government, i say this loosely, does not operate with a necessity to profit. Thus, resources are not allocated to their most highly valued ends that come from such a profit motive. This leads to waste and erroneous use of resources. A prime example of this was the housing bubble pumped up by artificial liquidity from the Fed. This bubble was created to stem the fallout from another fed related bubble in the dot com era. Sound Currency that is not purely printed, would negate alot of the malinvestment. If the government makes a bad allocation, they issue more bonds, or print more dollars. There are long term consequences.

I hope that helps, but I do think whatever anyone thinks, they should at least read some Rothbard, Hayek, or Mises for a new perspective to bring to the table.

Good post, 666Rich.