Utah Turning to Gold/Silver

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
61

[quote]Deorum wrote:

[quote]overstand wrote:
If the Fed is unable to adjust the money supply, they can’t utilize monetary policy. When an economy grows, the demand for money grows and thus the interest rate rises. If it rises too high, firms are unable to invest in new capital. This is where the big bad evil Fed steps in, prints money and buys US Treasury bonds in the open market. This drives the interest rate back down and allows further investment and further growth. In the real world, the interest rate does not fluctuate wildly because the Fed is very good at what they do. This allows for stable price levels and steady GDP growth.

On the other hand, if we are tied to a gold standard, the money supply is fixed; the Fed is unable to print new money. When the economy tries to expand, the interest rate rises…and rises…and rises until firms are unable to turn a profit. They must shut down, people lose their jobs and the economy tanks until it adjusts to whatever meager growth a finite money supply allows. But hey, no inflation right?? LOL.

For references, google “IS LM graph”, “aggregate expenditures schedule” and “loanable funds market graph”. These are the tools of the modern macroeconomist. They are based on Keynesian economics, the prevailing economic orthodoxy today.

Before Keynes, commodity money was widely accepted as a practical system. The “Classical economists” (pre Keynes era) believed that shocks to the financial market had no impact on the goods market and vice versa. Today we know this to be false (General Motors anyone?), but back then it implied that monetary policy was virtually useless. Classicals believed that an increase in the money supply would increase prices and nothing else. However, fiscal policy COULD stimulate GDP growth (as it can today, but that subject is highly debatable. See Stimulus Package) and thus began decades of deficit spending “gun and butter” economics in the United States. This culminated in the 70s with Stagflation. The only reason we ever pulled out of Stagflation was because Nixon listened to Keynes and finally took us off the gold standard.

So, chill out people. The Fed isn’t printing hundreds and stuffing them in their pockets. I agree the system isn’t perfect and the checks and balances are lacking, but it’s the best system the world knows as of yet.

Also, this is macro side of things. TQB posted a pretty accurate (and much more concise!) micro analysis.[/quote]

WOW! You people honestly do not even know what inflation and deflation ARE do you??? This is fucking amazing… I’m so done here…[/quote]

I think if you added perhaps one more question mark or exclamation point you would have probably better emphasized your point. Oh wait…I forgot that’s what they do in high school right?

Always a mature thing to type. And once again your use of punctuation demonstrates your inexperience and youth.

It must be tough to be the smartest 19 year old in the world. Hey, hang in there man you can do it.

I can only ask; do you promise…Do you promise?..Do you promise?..Do you promise?

62

Here is my shadow, right on time.

63

Wait, I think I can make his head explode:

Infalation is when prices rise and deflation is when they fall!

AmIrightorwhat !?!

64

Fuck it, I’ll dumb it down…

Inflation is a process in which the value of the dollar is decreased through an increased supply in money(usually paper money). Deflation is when the value of the dollar is decreased through a decreased supply of spendable money. There, those were the first words that came to my head for describing the two… Define them however the fuck you want it makes a difference not, just try to fucking understand them. Now, when those in power increase the supply of money the money in YOUR pockets is decreased in value(inflation). When they don’t increase the supply of money and they cease to spend money(remember they have ALOT more than you) the money in YOUR pockets decreases in value(deflation)… When they do nothing… Well there you fucking go. Now tell me why this is fundamentally so fucking hard to grasp??? I CAN’T MAKE IT ANY FUCKING MORE SIMPLE I SWEAR TO GOD! CUT THE FUCKING MIDDLE MAN STOP BEING SO GODDAMN WEAK AND LETTING THEM TAKE ADVANTAGE OF YOU! WTF IS WRONG WITH PEOPLE!!!

Alright, I’m ready for more brilliant responses on how this is a huge conspiracy and how the fed isn’t stuffing bills down their pockets… (Hint: if that’s what you got out of this THIS time, your a fucking moron; don’t bother replying to me)

(Another Hint: You fucking morons are putting yourself in a position you can never win with fiat currency. Somewhere somebody is fucking laughing at how stupid people are for accepting this bullshit economic system they have shoved up your fucking anus’s until your all ready to regurgitate it and preach its wonders…)

(A third Hint: Anytime you trust ANYONE to do something for you, your probably going to get taken advantage of in some way or the other - it is human nature to want power and your elected and not elected officials aren’t any different(you fucking idiots). Trust them to do something for you for [however many] years? Shit is bound to get insanely fucking corrupt and the consolidation of power will probably be DEEP already… And by this time the average person will not know any fucking better than to keep their goddamn stupid mouths shut and accept whatever the fuck they have been fed…

If you people trusted me to print your money I would do the same goddamn fucking thing… Why not? You guys would never know the difference… Be your own goddamn advocate - NOBODY else is going to do it for you. Every time you look at the next politician and think “Oh maybe this one will help little ol’ me out!” I think “What a fucking moron, he must be Christian - filled with infinite hope and blind faith. Always asking somebody ELSE to do the work FOR THEM. As if that will EVER work out the way you planned…” … Now I’m ranting, I’m sorry…)

“I can only ask; do you promise…Do you promise?..Do you promise?..Do you promise?”

Nah - I don’t promise you shit, bitch. Keep your lips glued to my fucking dick and make with the sucking like you’ve been doing and stop asking fucking questions. Oh yea, and fuck you and fuck mary in the fucking ass - Bitch.

“It must be tough to be the smartest 19 year old in the world.”

It must be easy being a fucking moron. Go worship a fucking book you fucking retard.

65

You people act like inflation is some giant secret that only the genius minds on PWI know about. All economic, accounting, finanacial whatever statistics are adjusted for inflation. Orion, real GDP, have you heard of it? Nobody measures growth in nominal terms LOL. If you said something like that in real life you’d get laughed out of the room.

I posted a very comprehensive explanation (albeit a gross oversimplification) of why money growth is needed. Unfortunately, you aren’t even on a high school level when it comes to economics. Intelligent debate here is impossible.

Deorum, pump your breaks again kid. Thanks for defining inflation for me, I had almost forgotten I was losing all my money. Oh wait. Ever heard of a bank? You don’t keep money in your pockets retard. Ever heard of the “cost of capital”? Opportunity cost? Every single business in the world understands this. You must invest your money.

If commodity money worked so great, why has every country in the world switched to a fiat system? Did you even read the entire paragraph I wrote about Stagflation? Google it. THAT is what happens when we rely soley on fiscal policy to expand the economy.

Keep cashing your checks from Pizza Hut and bitching about “the man” on your parents internet. You’re going places in life man, I can just tell.

66

[quote]overstand wrote:
You people act like inflation is some giant secret that only the genius minds on PWI know about. All economic, accounting, finanacial whatever statistics are adjusted for inflation. Orion, real GDP, have you heard of it? Nobody measures growth in nominal terms LOL. If you said something like that in real life you’d get laughed out of the room.

I posted a very comprehensive explanation (albeit a gross oversimplification) of why money growth is needed. Unfortunately, you aren’t even on a high school level when it comes to economics. Intelligent debate here is impossible.

Deorum, pump your breaks again kid. Thanks for defining inflation for me, I had almost forgotten I was losing all my money. Oh wait. Ever heard of a bank? You don’t keep money in your pockets retard. Ever heard of the “cost of capital”? Opportunity cost? Every single business in the world understands this. You must invest your money.

If commodity money worked so great, why has every country in the world switched to a fiat system? Did you even read the entire paragraph I wrote about Stagflation? Google it. THAT is what happens when we rely soley on fiscal policy to expand the economy.

Keep cashing your checks from Pizza Hut and bitching about “the man” on your parents internet. You’re going places in life man, I can just tell. [/quote]

[quote]overstand wrote:
You’re going places in life man, I can just tell.[/quote]

Lol… Okay… I’m really done this time lol…

Sorry if I exploded a bit. Your right though, I totally see what your saying now. Fiat currency is the way to go!

67

[quote]overstand wrote:
You people act like inflation is some giant secret that only the genius minds on PWI know about. All economic, accounting, finanacial whatever statistics are adjusted for inflation. Orion, real GDP, have you heard of it? Nobody measures growth in nominal terms LOL. If you said something like that in real life you’d get laughed out of the room.

I posted a very comprehensive explanation (albeit a gross oversimplification) of why money growth is needed. Unfortunately, you aren’t even on a high school level when it comes to economics. Intelligent debate here is impossible.

Deorum, pump your breaks again kid. Thanks for defining inflation for me, I had almost forgotten I was losing all my money. Oh wait. Ever heard of a bank? You don’t keep money in your pockets retard. Ever heard of the “cost of capital”? Opportunity cost? Every single business in the world understands this. You must invest your money.

If commodity money worked so great, why has every country in the world switched to a fiat system? Did you even read the entire paragraph I wrote about Stagflation? Google it. THAT is what happens when we rely soley on fiscal policy to expand the economy.

Keep cashing your checks from Pizza Hut and bitching about “the man” on your parents internet. You’re going places in life man, I can just tell.[/quote]

First, the GDP is flawed in many, many, many ways and was never intended to be used to measure economic output as it is used today.

Second, the line between real and nominal GDP cannot be drawn so easily since we have no idea what the effects of inflation really were. What we can do is measure the price increases, mainly but not always caused by infaltion for very specific groups. We however, do not do even that due to the “volatitlity” of gas, food and lodging, clearly items of no concern for the average household.

Furthermore, you would be running into severe problems measuring “real” GDP with a fixed money supply oh laughing one.

Also, nearly every country witched to a fiat money system in order to finance two wars and collectivist social program.

Finally, Keynesianism, which required central banks did not exactly win the war of ideas, at least for a while, due to its intellectual merits but because of an unholy alliance between politians that wanted to spend and intellectuals that provided an intellectual justification for it.

I am sure that the fact that most economist were and are employed by central banks and state run universities is purely coincidental.

68

[quote]Deorum wrote:

Lol… Okay… I’m really done this time lol…

Sorry if I exploded a bit. Your right though, I totally see what your saying now. Fiat currency is the way to go![/quote]

All the cool countries have it!

69

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]Deorum wrote:

Lol… Okay… I’m really done this time lol…

Sorry if I exploded a bit. Your right though, I totally see what your saying now. Fiat currency is the way to go![/quote]

All the cool countries have it!

[/quote]

Yea lets just all be a big happy accepting family! Our governments will take care of us all without our checking up on them! We can trust them! Who would dare take advantage of us? We are too smart to be taken advantage of - we would see right through it! And besides we only elect good moral Christians to high office and they know taking advantage is wrong!

70

[quote]Deorum wrote:
Yea lets just all be a big happy accepting family! Our governments will take care of us all without our checking up on them! We can trust them! Who would dare take advantage of us? We are too smart to be taken advantage of - we would see right through it! And besides we only elect good moral Christians to high office and they know taking advantage is wrong!
[/quote]

It is amusing how many people actually believe what you posted above, though you said it in jest.

71

[quote]ZEB wrote:
I’m a contrarian, when people are running away I am running toward and vice versa. Right now there are enough people around like you who are scared of the future to make stocks fairly cheap so I buy.

You are becoming one of my favorite posters.

72

[quote]Deorum wrote:
Fuck it, I’ll dumb it down…

Inflation is a process in which the value of the dollar is decreased through an increased supply in money(usually paper money). Deflation is when the value of the dollar is decreased through a decreased supply of spendable money. There, those were the first words that came to my head for describing the two… Define them however the fuck you want it makes a difference not, just try to fucking understand them. Now, when those in power increase the supply of money the money in YOUR pockets is decreased in value(inflation). When they don’t increase the supply of money and they cease to spend money(remember they have ALOT more than you) the money in YOUR pockets decreases in value(deflation)… When they do nothing… Well there you fucking go. Now tell me why this is fundamentally so fucking hard to grasp??? I CAN’T MAKE IT ANY FUCKING MORE SIMPLE I SWEAR TO GOD! CUT THE FUCKING MIDDLE MAN STOP BEING SO GODDAMN WEAK AND LETTING THEM TAKE ADVANTAGE OF YOU! WTF IS WRONG WITH PEOPLE!!!

Alright, I’m ready for more brilliant responses on how this is a huge conspiracy and how the fed isn’t stuffing bills down their pockets… (Hint: if that’s what you got out of this THIS time, your a fucking moron; don’t bother replying to me)

(Another Hint: You fucking morons are putting yourself in a position you can never win with fiat currency. Somewhere somebody is fucking laughing at how stupid people are for accepting this bullshit economic system they have shoved up your fucking anus’s until your all ready to regurgitate it and preach its wonders…)

(A third Hint: Anytime you trust ANYONE to do something for you, your probably going to get taken advantage of in some way or the other - it is human nature to want power and your elected and not elected officials aren’t any different(you fucking idiots). Trust them to do something for you for [however many] years? Shit is bound to get insanely fucking corrupt and the consolidation of power will probably be DEEP already… And by this time the average person will not know any fucking better than to keep their goddamn stupid mouths shut and accept whatever the fuck they have been fed…

If you people trusted me to print your money I would do the same goddamn fucking thing… Why not? You guys would never know the difference… Be your own goddamn advocate - NOBODY else is going to do it for you. Every time you look at the next politician and think “Oh maybe this one will help little ol’ me out!” I think “What a fucking moron, he must be Christian - filled with infinite hope and blind faith. Always asking somebody ELSE to do the work FOR THEM. As if that will EVER work out the way you planned…” … Now I’m ranting, I’m sorry…)

“I can only ask; do you promise…Do you promise?..Do you promise?..Do you promise?”

Nah - I don’t promise you shit, bitch. Keep your lips glued to my fucking dick and make with the sucking like you’ve been doing and stop asking fucking questions. Oh yea, and fuck you and fuck mary in the fucking ass - Bitch.

“It must be tough to be the smartest 19 year old in the world.”

It must be easy being a fucking moron. Go worship a fucking book you fucking retard. [/quote]

All of this coming from a 19 year old retard who can’t even use the quote function correctly -LMAO you little clown.

:slight_smile:

73

[quote]dnlcdstn wrote:
ZEB wrote:
I’m a contrarian, when people are running away I am running toward and vice versa. Right now there are enough people around like you who are scared of the future to make stocks fairly cheap so I buy.

You are becoming one of my favorite posters.
[/quote]

Thanks man. It’s just a matter of out thinking the pack. And if you look at history the pack is always wrong. Therefore, it doesn’t take intelligence, just guts to continue to buy in the face of a falling market. Just keep in mind that one key to success in this style of investing is to leave yourself some serious cash on the sidelines as no one can predict the bottom of a market. I leave myself three plays per stock. The initial purchase and two other equal size buys in case it dips two more times. If you purchase a good stock at say $10 in a falling market wait for another large drop before you make your second buy. So if that $10 stock goes down another 25% to $7.50 buy an equal number of shares to what you own. Now wait for it to drop again even more significantly before you make your final buy. If it drops another 35% to 4.88 make your final buy.

Keep in mind I am talking about solid companies that are only going down because of a falling market. Not poorly run companies that are not making money. Therefore, make sure that you do some fundamental research before you make your play. And when the sheep are running away wringing their hands about inflation and the end of the world. You move in for the kill. The best part comes later when you sell them their stocks back, the one’s they abandoned, for a profit.

I’ve made a lot of money doing this over the past several years. And the way things look I have some good opportunity to continue to make even more.

Good Luck,

Zeb

74

[quote]ZEB wrote:

[quote]dnlcdstn wrote:
ZEB wrote:
I’m a contrarian, when people are running away I am running toward and vice versa. Right now there are enough people around like you who are scared of the future to make stocks fairly cheap so I buy.

You are becoming one of my favorite posters.
[/quote]

Thanks man. It’s just a matter of out thinking the pack. And if you look at history the pack is always wrong.

[/quote]

Ironic

75

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]ZEB wrote:

[quote]dnlcdstn wrote:
ZEB wrote:
I’m a contrarian, when people are running away I am running toward and vice versa. Right now there are enough people around like you who are scared of the future to make stocks fairly cheap so I buy.

You are becoming one of my favorite posters.
[/quote]

Thanks man. It’s just a matter of out thinking the pack. And if you look at history the pack is always wrong.

[/quote]

Ironic[/quote]

I guess you could say that !

Now excuse me as I have to go to join prayer with the rest of the billions of atheists.

76

[quote]dnlcdstn wrote:

[quote]ZEB wrote:
I’m a contrarian, when people are running away I am running toward and vice versa. Right now there are enough people around like you who are scared of the future to make stocks fairly cheap so I buy.

You are becoming one of my favorite posters.
[/quote]

Ummm…bullishness on Wall Street was quite recently at or near an all-time high. The herd is buying. (But corporate insiders are selling in DROVES, to the fools.)

Listen to Zeb = get head handed to you on a plate

77

[quote]Headhunter wrote:

[quote]dnlcdstn wrote:

[quote]ZEB wrote:
I’m a contrarian, when people are running away I am running toward and vice versa. Right now there are enough people around like you who are scared of the future to make stocks fairly cheap so I buy.

You are becoming one of my favorite posters.
[/quote]

Ummm…bullishness on Wall Street was quite recently at or near an all-time high. The herd is buying. (But corporate insiders are selling in DROVES, to the fools.)

Listen to Zeb = get head handed to you on a plate
[/quote]

If you’re so worried about the end of the world why don’t you quit buying gold and buy ammunition and arms? What about a farm in the middle of nowhere so you can grow your own food?
What the fuck is gold gonna do for you when no one can buy it from you? Do you plan on making something out of this gold? Some golden slippers?

On the other hand you may be Zeb’s alter ego and try to scare more people so you can buy more stock.

I mean, if the stock market evaporates and shit hits the fan we’re all fucked. That’s why I have a firearm and I will do what I have to to provide. Until then I plan on investing (not just stock market) because when you are wrong, I will be wealthier.

78

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]ZEB wrote:

[quote]dnlcdstn wrote:
ZEB wrote:
I’m a contrarian, when people are running away I am running toward and vice versa. Right now there are enough people around like you who are scared of the future to make stocks fairly cheap so I buy.

You are becoming one of my favorite posters.
[/quote]

Thanks man. It’s just a matter of out thinking the pack. And if you look at history the pack is always wrong.

[/quote]

Ironic[/quote]

orion you’re confused I see. Because one has an important part to play within the pack does not mean that he must invest with the pack.

Any questions?

Let me know my friend.

79

[quote]ZEB wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]ZEB wrote:

[quote]dnlcdstn wrote:
ZEB wrote:
I’m a contrarian, when people are running away I am running toward and vice versa. Right now there are enough people around like you who are scared of the future to make stocks fairly cheap so I buy.

You are becoming one of my favorite posters.
[/quote]

Thanks man. It’s just a matter of out thinking the pack. And if you look at history the pack is always wrong.

[/quote]

Ironic[/quote]

orion you’re confused I see. Because one has an important part to play within the pack does not mean that he must invest with the pack.

Any questions?

Let me know my friend.
[/quote]

Well no, but “the pack” apparently still believes that the US will pay back its debt, that they will get their pension checks and free healthcare whereas those who get what is actually going on stampede out of the dollar and towards Asia.

80

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]ZEB wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]ZEB wrote:

[quote]dnlcdstn wrote:
ZEB wrote:
I’m a contrarian, when people are running away I am running toward and vice versa. Right now there are enough people around like you who are scared of the future to make stocks fairly cheap so I buy.

You are becoming one of my favorite posters.
[/quote]

Thanks man. It’s just a matter of out thinking the pack. And if you look at history the pack is always wrong.

[/quote]

Ironic[/quote]

orion you’re confused I see. Because one has an important part to play within the pack does not mean that he must invest with the pack.

Any questions?

Let me know my friend.
[/quote]

Well no, but “the pack” apparently still believes that the US will pay back its debt, that they will get their pension checks and free healthcare whereas those who get what is actually going on stampede out of the dollar and towards Asia.
[/quote]

I’m sorry I thought I was clear with one of my previous posts. I was speaking exclusively about the stock market. How I have played it in the past successfully and how anyone with enough guts, and some money, can do the same thing. And in this case, when the DOW hit 6000 people were obviously scrambling out to drive it to that low level. That is my reference to “the pack.”

Hopefully this clarifies things for you. It’s a great strategy try it.

Zeb