[quote]John S. wrote:
Lets ban cars everyone. Come on Drugs, Alcohol, Cell phones. [/quote]
I have nothing against that.
[quote]TornadoTommy wrote:
That depends on where you’re getting your figures. Some “figures” have justifiable homicides included in them, which is just another way the gun control proponents twist the truth. What they ignore is the fact that guns prevent crime much more than is reported. The availability of guns has nothing to do with it.
If you want to kill someone, you don’t need a firearm to do it. I have a safe full of guns, which includes a couple of AK-47 variants, a Mini-14, a tactical shotgun, 4 semi-automatic handguns of various calibers, high capacity magazines and bullets to spare. Guess what? Not a single one of them has ever jumped up and killed or maimed anyone. Guns are inanimate objects, incapable of violence. Firearms ownership comes with responsibility. They can be used for good or evil. I’m just glad that I live in a country, even with all it’s faults, that recognizes my right to self defense.[/quote]
Ok, but how do you explain the staggering figure of jail population in the US? Isn’t the social gap a factor?
[quote]tGunslinger wrote:
The problem with this thread is that everyone here is an amateur sociologist, and that even the real sociologists can’t answer the question “what causes crime”?
[/quote]
Are robberies always violent? I am pretty sure rich people don’t break into other rich people’s homes to steal their jewelry.
As for answering the question what causes crime, I wouldn’t know. I don’t even think a sociologist can truly answer that with a generalization. Those are the type of questions that fuel academics so we can leave it to an academic to answer.
All I know is that crime is real and in a statistical sense it can be predicted. To pretend there are not circumstances that mitigate crime is not only irresponsible it is foolish. If you live in a neighborhood where the average income is above a few standard deviations of the norm, chances are you have an alarm system to keep your insurance rates down.
[quote]karva wrote:
A firearm is making the killing as easy and convenient as possible. If I wanted to kill someone, I’d definitely choose a firearm.[/quote]
Firearms are the most effective way of defending oneself. Are you saying that law abiding citizens should be disallowed the responsible use of firearms simply because they could possibly be used in an unlawful manner?
“Would you be happier if we just pushed people out of windows?”
Archie Bunker
[quote]jlesk68 wrote:
“Would you be happier if we just pushed people out of windows?”
Archie Bunker[/quote]
Great quote.
[quote]lixy wrote:
You forget the practicality factor. How often do you see people draw their bows from their pants/purses?[/quote]
Apparently you’ve never shot a pistol. It isn’t exactly a point and click weapon. Pistol marksmanship, particularly at 15 yards plus is HARD. I take mine to the range several times a month and still can’t pull off any move stuff.
mike
[quote]Mikeyali wrote:
Apparently you’ve never shot a pistol. It isn’t exactly a point and click weapon. Pistol marksmanship, particularly at 15 yards plus is HARD. I take mine to the range several times a month and still can’t pull off any move stuff.
[/quote]
Right. Which strengthens my point that you could end up hurting (killing) other people instead of your target.
[quote]lixy wrote:
Mikeyali wrote:
Apparently you’ve never shot a pistol. It isn’t exactly a point and click weapon. Pistol marksmanship, particularly at 15 yards plus is HARD. I take mine to the range several times a month and still can’t pull off any move stuff.
Right. Which strengthens my point that you could end up hurting (killing) other people instead of your target.
[/quote]
Lixy, Someone could not drive a car right and kill someone, Hell 3.5x as many people die from car accidents then guns, yet you don’t see anyone wanting to ban cars. This is pointless and in this point your a moron.
[quote]TornadoTommy wrote:
karva wrote:
A firearm is making the killing as easy and convenient as possible. If I wanted to kill someone, I’d definitely choose a firearm.
Firearms are the most effective way of defending oneself. Are you saying that law abiding citizens should be disallowed the responsible use of firearms simply because they could possibly be used in an unlawful manner?[/quote]
No, I’m just pointing out that you can’t take guns out of the equation when the subject is gun violence. Guns are linked to gun violence, right? Now, Finland is one of the most violent countries in Europe and there are plenty of hunting weapons, but gun violence is not that common.
So you are right, violence without guns is possible. The interesting question is why guns are so often used in violent situations in US? It’s difficult to avoid the conclusion, that is has something to do with the availability of handguns.
[quote]John S. wrote:
lixy, Someone could not drive a car right and kill someone, Hell 3.5x as many people die from car accidents then guns, yet you don’t see anyone wanting to ban cars. This is pointless and in this point your a moron.
[/quote]
Here we go again…
You’re really a pain. One doesn’t drive a car for self-defence or to shoot others. One drives cars to get from point A to point B. A gun has no other purpose than to harm others (might sometimes work to threaten people or as a deterrent). What part of that don’t you understand?
And for the last time, I’m not against guns. I’m just pointing out common sense argument that might help MisterHamper better argue on his exam. Stop agressing me as if I were after your 2nd amendment.
P.S: Your != You’re
[quote]lixy wrote:
John S. wrote:
lixy, Someone could not drive a car right and kill someone, Hell 3.5x as many people die from car accidents then guns, yet you don’t see anyone wanting to ban cars. This is pointless and in this point your a moron.
Here we go again…
You’re really a pain. One doesn’t drive a car for self-defence or to shoot others. One drives cars to get from point A to point B. A gun has no other purpose than to harm others (might sometimes work to threaten people or as a deterrent). What part of that don’t you understand?
And for the last time, I’m not against guns. I’m just pointing out common sense argument that might help MisterHamper better argue on his exam. Stop agressing me as if I were after your 2nd amendment.
P.S: Your != You’re[/quote]
Lixy my friend, do you not understand I’m misspelling words just to see you grasp at straws. Guns are as much as a tool as cars, You know what happened when guns got taken away in Germany? Thats right, I need to refresh your memory, know way to oppose the government.
If i had a dollar for every time ive seen a right wing guy rewriting history…
[quote]Ken Kaniff wrote:
You know what happened when guns got taken away in Germany? Thats right, I need to refresh your memory, know way to oppose the government.
If i had a dollar for every time ive seen a right wing guy rewriting history…[/quote]
Rewriting history, I think you need to check your facts.
[quote]vroom wrote:
Lorisco wrote:
Exactly right!
The US with such an extensive welfare program has created generations of people that have no work ethic. They feel they are somehow entitled to money just because they are here, not because of the relative value they have to offer society.
And I know this will piss off some people, but it is predominately the Democrats who use this sense of entitlement to try and get votes every single election. They perpetuate the “something for nothing” mentality and blame those who do work for the plight of those who do not.
Guess what.
The problem with this viewpoint is that there are other countries that have a larger predominance of welfare and much much lower violent crime rates.
While your argument is common, it is one created for political purposes, not in order to look for a solution.
Doesn’t that strike you as strange?[/quote]
As usually you haven’t been paying attention. I never said it was the predominance of welfare recipients, it’s how the program is administered. I don’t believe the other countries that have significant enrollees in welfare programs are ever told that it is their “right” and that if it wasn’t for __________ (fill in) they would have all this money from the government.
I believe the US uses the entitlement carrot much more than any other country. Using it repeatedly for political gain is the problem and what has created the welfare State we have today.
I don’t believe these program are used for vote manipulation in other countries as much as they have been in the US. So that would explain why people on welfare in the US are more disgruntled than people in other countries.
[quote]Lorisco wrote:
I don’t believe these program are used for vote manipulation in other countries as much as they have been in the US. So that would explain why people on welfare in the US are more disgruntled than people in other countries. [/quote]
I don’t think so. I’d say they are disgruntled because to get quality, you need to go to a private hospital/school/etc…
And what exactly do you base this not believing “these program are used for vote manipulation in other countries as much as they have been in the US” on? A hunch?
[quote]Mikeyali wrote:
lixy wrote:
You forget the practicality factor. How often do you see people draw their bows from their pants/purses?
Apparently you’ve never shot a pistol. It isn’t exactly a point and click weapon. Pistol marksmanship, particularly at 15 yards plus is HARD. I take mine to the range several times a month and still can’t pull off any move stuff.
mike[/quote]
Yup. Being able to hit a moving target with a handgun is pretty damned hard, esp if the target is moving away at an angle and not straight away.
[quote]lixy wrote:
Mikeyali wrote:
I still don’t see why gun violence even matters. Is a murder worse because a gun was used?
Because a child or an old person could easily kill with a gun.
Because using a gun gives the victim no chance of fighting back.
Because you could shoot someone from long distances.
…[/quote]
without guns being involved i could kick the shit out of old folks, kids, women and most people smaller than me without much trouble (unless they have a knife and are attacking me first). So take away guns and they cannot defend themselves.
Myth: Citizens are too incompetent to use guns for protection
Fact: About 11% of police shootings kill an innocent person - about 2% of shootings by citizens kill an innocent person. The odds of a defensive gun user killing an innocent person are less than 1 in 26,000.159 And that is with citizens using guns to prevent
crimes almost 2,500,000 times every year.
Fact: Every day, 550 rapes, 1,100 murders, and 5,200 other violent crimes are prevented just by showing a
gun. In less than 0.9% of the time is the gun ever actually fired
CRIME AND GUNS
71% of gunshot victims had previous arrest records
64% had been convicted of a crime
Each had an average of 11 prior arrests
63% of victims have criminal histories and 73% of the time they know their assailant (twice as often as victims without criminal histories)
Look at this site http://www.mcsm.org/gunfacts.pdf there is like 80 pages of this kind of stuff.
[quote]rander wrote:
lixy wrote:
Mikeyali wrote:
I still don’t see why gun violence even matters. Is a murder worse because a gun was used?
Because a child or an old person could easily kill with a gun.
Because using a gun gives the victim no chance of fighting back.
Because you could shoot someone from long distances.
…
without guns being involved i could kick the shit out of old folks, kids, women and most people smaller than me without much trouble (unless they have a knife and are attacking me first). So take away guns and they cannot defend themselves.
Myth: Citizens are too incompetent to use guns for protection
Fact: About 11% of police shootings kill an innocent person - about 2% of shootings by citizens kill an innocent person. The odds of a defensive gun user killing an innocent person are less than 1 in 26,000.159 And that is with citizens using guns to prevent
crimes almost 2,500,000 times every year.
Fact: Every day, 550 rapes, 1,100 murders, and 5,200 other violent crimes are prevented just by showing a
gun. In less than 0.9% of the time is the gun ever actually fired
CRIME AND GUNS
71% of gunshot victims had previous arrest records
64% had been convicted of a crime
Each had an average of 11 prior arrests
63% of victims have criminal histories and 73% of the time they know their assailant (twice as often as victims without criminal histories)
Look at this site http://www.mcsm.org/gunfacts.pdf there is like 80 pages of this kind of stuff.[/quote]
Good post. Many “victims” of gun violence are not victims at all. They are predators and their prey has fought back.
[quote]lixy wrote:
or at least within cultures that don’t exacerbate the gap by constantly rubbing the nose of the poor in it (ever watch MTV’s cribs?), a young kid is less likely to get worked up and channel his/her impotence by sticking molten lead in other people’s flesh.
[/quote]
That’s a wonderful point. Let’s hide the fact that if you have a marketable skill in a capitalistic society a high standard of living is possible.
That way poor people will only be exposed to other poor people. Then they won’t see a better way of life and think its okay to be destitute because everyone else is too.