[quote]ephrem wrote:
[/quote]
you have absolutly no idea what you are talking about.
Umm…because we are still paying in.
[quote]
Perhaps the reason why your capatalist nation no longer thrives is not the influx of illegal immigrants, but overspending on an unnecessary war and banking-deregulation?[/quote]
What does overspending on war have to do with market failures? And what banking deregulation?
Do you even think before you post?
[quote]ephrem wrote:
jayski wrote:This crap has been going on for decades and nobody is stupid, illegals know what they are doing and they’ll keep doing it as long as it’s allowed. One of my uncles father had lived here illegally for 40 years, didn’t pay a dime for taxes, saved up his money and when it came time for retirement to approach, he had to be a citizen to get the pensions and benefits, so he waited till about a year before retirement became a citizen, retired, collected a pretty good pension while living in mexico for the rest of his life while it was a good one. Had a good laugh about all of it too.
…sounds like he worked the system to his advantage. He did not pay taxes? Sounds liberterian to me. Saved his money? Very conservative of him. Smart guy, that fella (-:
[/quote]
Just as smart as drug dealers, thieves, pimps, and prostitutes that don’t don’t pay taxes. They must all be conservative as well.
[quote]GDollars37 wrote:
Agreed. But unless you slant it in some way, a sales tax is awfully regressive.[/quote]
Actually, a flat sales tax would increase tax revenue quite a bit.
Producers would be able to produce more and would still pay taxes when they consume capital goods to produce. Consumers would be able to purchase cheaper and more abundant goods and would still pay taxes when they buy goods. More tax revenue would come in via consumption because everyone consumes but not everyone pays income taxes. Prices would drop overall as productivity increases so even the government would benefit as long as they do not increase demand too much in certain industries.
The upside of this is that everyone has more money and economic growth would skyrocket within a few years thus also increasing government tax revenue. As long as the government does not increase spending and does not print new money to make up short falls the amount of revenue they receive would stabilize and they would actually be able to plan a budget.
The key to a flat tax is turnover. As more goods become available because of increased productivity there will be massive amounts of turnover and every turnover would provide a source of tax revenue. When we have more of our own money we will spend more – might even save a little bit too for our own future.
[quote]ephrem wrote:
…bullshit, cheap labor fuels our affluence whether you like it or not. Especially in the USA, where cheap labor is the backbone of it’s economy, is this most prevalent.
The fact that there are more high paying jobs than ever before in history is merely a testament to the fact that mankind has perfected the ability to abuse the weak for profit…[/quote]
Uhhh…have you ever traveled outside the western world? By your logic since labor rates are so much lower then their economies would be much better off?
Slaves do not make the economy better off. They may benefit the owner but they do not benefit society as a whole.
[quote]PB-Crawl wrote:
your statement just shows how much of a stupid cunt you are who cant accept the fact that growing up in a 1st world nation automatically provides you with luxury.
sit down
[/quote]
Luxury can only happen because people have worked hard, saved, and produced in the past and gave up luxury so that someone else may have it later on. You cannot provide luxury by mandate because it requires not only time to accumulate but a culture willing to produce it for future generations. There is nothing automatic about it.
And for the record, I am in favor of anyone who wants to move anywhere they want whenever they want provided others are not forced to fund it at the barrel of a gun.
[quote]orion wrote:
ephrem wrote:
…so what? That does not change the fact that they are providing cheap labor that benefit our lifestyles. Look, people will always look for the best, read cheapest, deal…
…for instance, europe has been overrun by polish workers for years now. They work cheap and work hard, but guess what, in Poland Georgians do the work the poles won’t do because they earn more abroad than at home…
…however you want to spin this, and i do feel you just like to antagonise for the sake of discussion, the West relies on cheap labor…
I simply question your view of reality and that you want to uphold it even though it flies in the face of facts and logic.
Again, free markets do not need “cheap” labor they need profitable and that means “productive” labor.
Of course I will going to use cheap lobar if that brings production prices down, but the way capitalism deals with this problem is by accumulating capital, meaning machines and train the workers how to use them.
Then, the cost of the average produced unit drops, but the workers earn more, not less, the entrepreneur earns more, not less, and the consumer pays less, not more.
That is not just a theory but a historical fact that you can clearly see in workers incomes over the last 200 years.[/quote]
What about over the last 35? Average wages peaked in 1973 in the US.
[quote]Gael wrote:
What about over the last 35? Average wages peaked in 1973 in the US.[/quote]
And what has happened to productivity? Wages and productivity are strongly correlated.
A little something on wages.
http://cafehayek.typepad.com/hayek/2007/10/employment-and-.html
Well, you racist fucks make a good argument for a national sales tax. Truthfully, you guys make my nuts burrow into my body whenever you start talking about your brand of Americanism.
[quote]Amused59 wrote:
Well, you racist fucks make a good argument for a national sales tax. Truthfully, you guys make my nuts burrow into my body whenever you start talking about your brand of Americanism.[/quote]
How is sales tax racist in any way.
It was the design of tax in the constitution
[quote]ephrem wrote:
jayski wrote:This crap has been going on for decades and nobody is stupid, illegals know what they are doing and they’ll keep doing it as long as it’s allowed.
One of my uncles father had lived here illegally for 40 years, didn’t pay a dime for taxes, saved up his money and when it came time for retirement to approach, he had to be a citizen to get the pensions and benefits, so he waited till about a year before retirement became a citizen, retired, collected a pretty good pension while living in mexico for the rest of his life while it was a good one.
Had a good laugh about all of it too.
…sounds like he worked the system to his advantage. He did not pay taxes? Sounds liberterian to me. Saved his money? Very conservative of him. Smart guy, that fella (-:
[/quote]
Oh yes he worked it, and even made it known that he was doing it while talking about how much of a piece of shit the united states is and that one day they’ll own this country. He would talk about that shit but at the same time he hated his own people, said they were sub human.
Oh yes very smart fella, and a great man he was too, he made his own kids fend for themselves as teens, had my uncle sleep in the car or wherever when he was 12 and onward, and then when he finally retired and got his pension he already had bought a very nice house in mexico and then just moved there and stayed.
When he finally met his maker, he didn’t leave any one of kids, grandchilden a dime. His wife, before she had died had set it up so that her kids could get money if one or both of them died, but after she died he got his greedy hands on it.
But if any one us took advantage of the system like he did we would be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. All they would have done to him, if he had gotten caught, was deport him and he would have just walked right back in.
[quote]jayski wrote:
ephrem wrote:
jayski wrote:This crap has been going on for decades and nobody is stupid, illegals know what they are doing and they’ll keep doing it as long as it’s allowed.
One of my uncles father had lived here illegally for 40 years, didn’t pay a dime for taxes, saved up his money and when it came time for retirement to approach, he had to be a citizen to get the pensions and benefits, so he waited till about a year before retirement became a citizen, retired, collected a pretty good pension while living in mexico for the rest of his life while it was a good one.
Had a good laugh about all of it too.
…sounds like he worked the system to his advantage. He did not pay taxes? Sounds liberterian to me. Saved his money? Very conservative of him. Smart guy, that fella (-:
Oh yes he worked it, and even made it known that he was doing it while talking about how much of a piece of shit the united states is and that one day they’ll own this country. He would talk about that shit but at the same time he hated his own people, said they were sub human.
Oh yes very smart fella, and a great man he was too, he made his own kids fend for themselves as teens, had my uncle sleep in the car or wherever when he was 12 and onward, and then when he finally retired and got his pension he already had bought a very nice house in mexico and then just moved there and stayed.
When he finally met his maker, he didn’t leave any one of kids, grandchilden a dime. His wife, before she had died had set it up so that her kids could get money if one or both of them died, but after she died he got his greedy hands on it.
But if any one us took advantage of the system like he did we would be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. All they would have done to him, if he had gotten caught, was deport him and he would have just walked right back in.
[/quote]
He reminds me of the father of the Mexican chick that used to cut my hair. He was finally deported after his 7th DUI and now resides in Mexico, where he’s started a new family with a new woman and doesn’t pay a cent in child support. He rarely sees his children in the US. His son (her brother), was recently expelled from school for getting in some fight just prior to graduation. BTW, the father used to deal heroin when he lived here. Great guy.
[quote]Sloth wrote:
A little something on wages.
http://cafehayek.typepad.com/hayek/2007/10/employment-and-.html
[/quote]
Divorce rates sky rocket as women enter the workforce…who knew?
Hey, I wonder how productive divorced women are who happen to be raising children on their own?
[quote]Amused59 wrote:
Well, you racist fucks make a good argument for a national sales tax. Truthfully, you guys make my nuts burrow into my body whenever you start talking about your brand of Americanism.[/quote]
Boy, you’re a bright one.
[quote]dhickey wrote:
…sounds like he worked the system to his advantage. He did not pay taxes? Sounds liberterian to me. Saved his money? Very conservative of him. Smart guy, that fella (-:
Just as smart as drug dealers, thieves, pimps, and prostitutes that don’t don’t pay taxes. They must all be conservative as well.[/quote]
…he’s just looking out for number one. You’re pissed he’s smarter than you. Besides, CEO’s who weasel out of paying taxes alltogether are on the same level criminals are? Well, at least we agree on something (-:
[quote]jayski wrote:
ephrem wrote:
jayski wrote:This crap has been going on for decades and nobody is stupid, illegals know what they are doing and they’ll keep doing it as long as it’s allowed.
One of my uncles father had lived here illegally for 40 years, didn’t pay a dime for taxes, saved up his money and when it came time for retirement to approach, he had to be a citizen to get the pensions and benefits, so he waited till about a year before retirement became a citizen, retired, collected a pretty good pension while living in mexico for the rest of his life while it was a good one.
Had a good laugh about all of it too.
…sounds like he worked the system to his advantage. He did not pay taxes? Sounds liberterian to me. Saved his money? Very conservative of him. Smart guy, that fella (-:
Oh yes he worked it, and even made it known that he was doing it while talking about how much of a piece of shit the united states is and that one day they’ll own this country. He would talk about that shit but at the same time he hated his own people, said they were sub human.
Oh yes very smart fella, and a great man he was too, he made his own kids fend for themselves as teens, had my uncle sleep in the car or wherever when he was 12 and onward, and then when he finally retired and got his pension he already had bought a very nice house in mexico and then just moved there and stayed.
When he finally met his maker, he didn’t leave any one of kids, grandchilden a dime. His wife, before she had died had set it up so that her kids could get money if one or both of them died, but after she died he got his greedy hands on it.
But if any one us took advantage of the system like he did we would be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. All they would have done to him, if he had gotten caught, was deport him and he would have just walked right back in.
[/quote]
…there are assholes everywhere, that’s the moral of this story. Simply demonize the lot of them, and be done with it…
[quote]Sloth wrote:
ephrem wrote:
…sounds like he worked the system to his advantage. He did not pay taxes? Sounds liberterian to me. Saved his money? Very conservative of him. Smart guy, that fella (-:
And of course you’re just as supportive of actual citiznes not paying taxes, right?[/quote]
…honestly? I don’t mind paying [a lot of] taxes if that means my country’s infrastucture and public transport system is properly maintained; if good education is available to all; if top notch health care is insured against affordable rates; if pension and unemployment benefits will see me through to the next job and/or gives me enjoyable old age… and so on. USA’rs are the ones who are tax allergic [or so it seems]…
[quote]ephrem wrote:
Sloth wrote:
ephrem wrote:
…sounds like he worked the system to his advantage. He did not pay taxes? Sounds liberterian to me. Saved his money? Very conservative of him. Smart guy, that fella (-:
And of course you’re just as supportive of actual citiznes not paying taxes, right?
…honestly? I don’t mind paying [a lot of] taxes if that means my country’s infrastucture and public transport system is properly maintained; if good education is available to all; if top notch health care is insured against affordable rates; if pension and unemployment benefits will see me through to the next job and/or gives me enjoyable old age… and so on. USA’rs are the ones who are tax allergic [or so it seems]…
[/quote]
I see. You almost seemed to be excusing illegal immigrants. I’m glad to see you’re not.
Yes there are assholes everywhere, news flash everybody, but that’s not my point. I wanted to point out to the holier than thou pieces of shit that most illegals know what the hell they are doing when they get here. They aren’t the less than fortunate people that makes us obligated to pave their lives for them so they get it easier. Any natural born citizen begins their own lives with nothing and like everybody else, in order to make our lives how we want, we actually have to work for it without handouts.
Some do come here for the opportunity to start new lifes and make something of themselves. Then you got the ones who know they are abusing the system and will keep doing it and then demand that there are spanish subtitles under english so they can be accommadated instead of learning to speak english.
[quote]Gael wrote:
orion wrote:
ephrem wrote:
…so what? That does not change the fact that they are providing cheap labor that benefit our lifestyles. Look, people will always look for the best, read cheapest, deal…
…for instance, europe has been overrun by polish workers for years now. They work cheap and work hard, but guess what, in Poland Georgians do the work the poles won’t do because they earn more abroad than at home…
…however you want to spin this, and i do feel you just like to antagonise for the sake of discussion, the West relies on cheap labor…
I simply question your view of reality and that you want to uphold it even though it flies in the face of facts and logic.
Again, free markets do not need “cheap” labor they need profitable and that means “productive” labor.
Of course I will going to use cheap lobar if that brings production prices down, but the way capitalism deals with this problem is by accumulating capital, meaning machines and train the workers how to use them.
Then, the cost of the average produced unit drops, but the workers earn more, not less, the entrepreneur earns more, not less, and the consumer pays less, not more.
That is not just a theory but a historical fact that you can clearly see in workers incomes over the last 200 years.
What about over the last 35? Average wages peaked in 1973 in the US.[/quote]
From what I have seen that happened more around 1981 but I get your point.
Three things:
A) Obviously your trade deficit is ever increasing, so at least your relative productivity most be dropping.
Either your productivity drops, or stays the same or simply does not grow as fast as others.
B) It is really hard to tell because US government statistics are lying their asses of, they under report inflation and blow up productivity increases.
Obviously they can´t be right, because if your economy was becoming more more productive at a record pace , why are you losing market share?
C) There is of course the fact that new investments go to India and China, that might even draw off capital from the US and thereby lower wages.
That only shows that the US is a pretty small country that is very well off compared to the rest of the world.
The link between rising productivity and wages is still there, the productivity simply rises elsewhere.