http://www.hoover.org/publications/policy-review/article/8038
[quote]Headhunter wrote:
Double teacher pay, attract better people, get huge payoff in more highly educated citizenry.
Simple.[/quote]
No, it’s the socialized nature of the education that is the problem. There is no profit incentive and for this reason the education is lacking.
Would doubling the pay of other government employees results in better service? Highly doubtful.
I don’t have the figures and maybe someone else could find them but I’m fairly certain that the amount of money spent on education per student has risen dramatically over the last few decades.
The problem doesn’t necessarily lay in the individual teachers themselves but the whole bureaucratic cog of the education system. The very things that characterize government enterprise is seen in the modern education system: high cost, poor service, apathy toward customers, slow to adapt, lack of innovation etc.
[quote]doogie wrote:
[quote]Headhunter wrote:
Double teacher pay, attract better people, get huge payoff in more highly educated citizenry.
Simple.[/quote]
Doubling the pay won’t get rid of the 99% of current teachers who are terrible.[/quote]
That’s a fact!
[quote]doogie wrote:
[quote]Headhunter wrote:
Double teacher pay, attract better people, get huge payoff in more highly educated citizenry.
Simple.[/quote]
Doubling the pay won’t get rid of the 99% of current teachers who are terrible.[/quote]
Exactly. Double teacher pay and bad teachers will now have double the reason to hunker down and stay in the teaching business.
Rising pay has to be offset with the ability to fire bad teachers, in some form or fashion. Teachers cannot have it both ways.
I think HH is just having some lulz with you all.
HH has indicated throughout the history of his posting that he believes in the idea of a merit based society; he therefore, to be consistent would not really agree with his statement about doubling teacher pay.
edited
“those who know, do. Those who understand, teach”
and those who know-it-all discuss laws about teaching.
[quote]garcia1970 wrote:
You guys are the biggest assholes ever. Whatever 72% of Anmericans support raising taxes on the rich over cutting SS, Medicare or Medicaid. Even this will most probably benefit you, as I’m sure none of you are wealthy, you will still bitch.
ok. Get back in your bunkers and put the tin foil back over your heads and finish your pipe bombs.
Zeb, no surprise you are a follower of Fallwell. You are filled with anger and hate just like him. Typical Evangelical --as you Reddog. You confirm all the stereotypes. Like Jesus always said, “fuck the poor and every man for himself.”
[/quote]
Like Jesus said, “Transfer your responsibility for charity to the gov’t, then you don’t have to worry about it”. Oh wait, he didn’t say that either.
More teacher pay = more competition for those teaching jobs = better selection of candidates. Increase pay for getting a masters degree.
Would some people stay for the higher salary? Sure, but we are looking at a long term fix here. Merit based pay is a difficult issue. Perhaps its easily quantifiable in something like Math, but what about Art? Who sets the standards? Thus you have all the problems with the well intentioned, but much malinged NCB act.
This certainly doesnt solve the complex issues that make public education extremely unwieldy, but certain things can help.
I believe kids need to spend more time in school, and have better teachers/ mentors/ etc. Its not a school issue, its a community issue.
Whether its public or a charter school, kids, especially inner city kids need a better education. Whether public or private, better teachers can be obtained by raising the salary, and also the stigma. Educators are not highly regarded in this country, and the attitude towards education is not as revered as in other cultures. Both of these need to change.
I work in a large urban school district and I see the good the bad and the ugly in the bureaucracy.
[quote]666Rich wrote:
More teacher pay = more competition for those teaching jobs = better selection of candidates. Increase pay for getting a masters degree.
Would some people stay for the higher salary? Sure, but we are looking at a long term fix here. Merit based pay is a difficult issue. Perhaps its easily quantifiable in something like Math, but what about Art? Who sets the standards? Thus you have all the problems with the well intentioned, but much malinged NCB act.
This certainly doesnt solve the complex issues that make public education extremely unwieldy, but certain things can help.
I believe kids need to spend more time in school, and have better teachers/ mentors/ etc. Its not a school issue, its a community issue.
Whether its public or a charter school, kids, especially inner city kids need a better education. Whether public or private, better teachers can be obtained by raising the salary, and also the stigma. Educators are not highly regarded in this country, and the attitude towards education is not as revered as in other cultures. Both of these need to change.
I work in a large urban school district and I see the good the bad and the ugly in the bureaucracy. [/quote]
Having the Fed Gov’t in charge of education has proven to be a terrible idea. If we had 50 statestrying 50 different things we could find what works, implement those ideas and discard what doesn’t. No one solution is going to fit all.
[quote]Gaius Octavius wrote:
[quote]garcia1970 wrote:
[quote]reddog6376 wrote:
[quote]garcia1970 wrote:
[quote]reddog6376 wrote:
[quote]garcia1970 wrote:
Actually, all I pretty much did was ask questions. This is EXACTLY what I expected, though.
If you don’t believe in evolution, as most religious nuts don’t, you might homeschool your children to keep them from learning about it, right? You don’t believe christianity has been anti-science for thousands of years? You know what I meant, you are just pissed that it is true.
So much hate here. More personal attacks. More BS about professor this and fraud that. If you are not rich and vote to lower taxes on the rich, while services you use are cut, you truely are out of your mind. You people are so far gone that there is no point in debate.[/quote]
This only demonstrates that you don’t understand supporting something on principle. People of principle vote & support things because they are right, not based on how much money it put’s in their pocket. [/quote]
uh. ok. Capitalism is based on self-interest, as you like to say. That is a silly statement.[/quote]
And intelligent people realize there is more to “self-interest” than how much money a particular proposal will put in their pocket.
[/quote]
Like having an educated population, adequate health care, safe food and water and air, safe cities, and a society with fair wages and even distribution of wealth.
ok, I get it.[/quote]
The free market does all those things better than government ever could and there are numerous examples for pretty much all of those services to back that up.
Have you ever actually studied how well what you believe actually works? [/quote]
where is this free market ?
[quote]reddog6376 wrote:
[quote]garcia1970 wrote:
You guys are the biggest assholes ever. Whatever 72% of Anmericans support raising taxes on the rich over cutting SS, Medicare or Medicaid. Even this will most probably benefit you, as I’m sure none of you are wealthy, you will still bitch.
ok. Get back in your bunkers and put the tin foil back over your heads and finish your pipe bombs.
Zeb, no surprise you are a follower of Fallwell. You are filled with anger and hate just like him. Typical Evangelical --as you Reddog. You confirm all the stereotypes. Like Jesus always said, “fuck the poor and every man for himself.”
[/quote]
Like Jesus said, “Transfer your responsibility for charity to the gov’t, then you don’t have to worry about it”. Oh wait, he didn’t say that either.
[/quote]
Give unto Ceasar what is Ceasar’s
[quote]pittbulll wrote:
[quote]Gaius Octavius wrote:
[quote]garcia1970 wrote:
[quote]reddog6376 wrote:
[quote]garcia1970 wrote:
[quote]reddog6376 wrote:
[quote]garcia1970 wrote:
Actually, all I pretty much did was ask questions. This is EXACTLY what I expected, though.
If you don’t believe in evolution, as most religious nuts don’t, you might homeschool your children to keep them from learning about it, right? You don’t believe christianity has been anti-science for thousands of years? You know what I meant, you are just pissed that it is true.
So much hate here. More personal attacks. More BS about professor this and fraud that. If you are not rich and vote to lower taxes on the rich, while services you use are cut, you truely are out of your mind. You people are so far gone that there is no point in debate.[/quote]
This only demonstrates that you don’t understand supporting something on principle. People of principle vote & support things because they are right, not based on how much money it put’s in their pocket. [/quote]
uh. ok. Capitalism is based on self-interest, as you like to say. That is a silly statement.[/quote]
And intelligent people realize there is more to “self-interest” than how much money a particular proposal will put in their pocket.
[/quote]
Like having an educated population, adequate health care, safe food and water and air, safe cities, and a society with fair wages and even distribution of wealth.
ok, I get it.[/quote]
The free market does all those things better than government ever could and there are numerous examples for pretty much all of those services to back that up.
Have you ever actually studied how well what you believe actually works? [/quote]
where is this free market ?[/quote]
Answer: The free market system is in FULL EFFECT in post-secondary education. For-profit colleges such as University of Phoenix, Kaplan, Devry, etc. How’s that working out? I would LOVE to hear your opinions.
[quote]pittbulll wrote:
[quote]reddog6376 wrote:
[quote]garcia1970 wrote:
You guys are the biggest assholes ever. Whatever 72% of Anmericans support raising taxes on the rich over cutting SS, Medicare or Medicaid. Even this will most probably benefit you, as I’m sure none of you are wealthy, you will still bitch.
ok. Get back in your bunkers and put the tin foil back over your heads and finish your pipe bombs.
Zeb, no surprise you are a follower of Fallwell. You are filled with anger and hate just like him. Typical Evangelical --as you Reddog. You confirm all the stereotypes. Like Jesus always said, “fuck the poor and every man for himself.”
[/quote]
Like Jesus said, “Transfer your responsibility for charity to the gov’t, then you don’t have to worry about it”. Oh wait, he didn’t say that either.
[/quote]
Give unto Ceasar what is Ceasar’s[/quote]
And you still don’t understand the context of this quote…
[quote]garcia1970 wrote:
[quote]pittbulll wrote:
[quote]Gaius Octavius wrote:
[quote]garcia1970 wrote:
[quote]reddog6376 wrote:
[quote]garcia1970 wrote:
[quote]reddog6376 wrote:
[quote]garcia1970 wrote:
Actually, all I pretty much did was ask questions. This is EXACTLY what I expected, though.
If you don’t believe in evolution, as most religious nuts don’t, you might homeschool your children to keep them from learning about it, right? You don’t believe christianity has been anti-science for thousands of years? You know what I meant, you are just pissed that it is true.
So much hate here. More personal attacks. More BS about professor this and fraud that. If you are not rich and vote to lower taxes on the rich, while services you use are cut, you truely are out of your mind. You people are so far gone that there is no point in debate.[/quote]
This only demonstrates that you don’t understand supporting something on principle. People of principle vote & support things because they are right, not based on how much money it put’s in their pocket. [/quote]
uh. ok. Capitalism is based on self-interest, as you like to say. That is a silly statement.[/quote]
And intelligent people realize there is more to “self-interest” than how much money a particular proposal will put in their pocket.
[/quote]
Like having an educated population, adequate health care, safe food and water and air, safe cities, and a society with fair wages and even distribution of wealth.
ok, I get it.[/quote]
The free market does all those things better than government ever could and there are numerous examples for pretty much all of those services to back that up.
Have you ever actually studied how well what you believe actually works? [/quote]
where is this free market ?[/quote]
Answer: The free market system is in FULL EFFECT in post-secondary education. For-profit colleges such as University of Phoenix, Kaplan, Devry, etc. How’s that working out? I would LOVE to hear your opinions.[/quote]
[quote]garcia1970 wrote:
[quote]pittbulll wrote:
[quote]Gaius Octavius wrote:
[quote]garcia1970 wrote:
[quote]reddog6376 wrote:
[quote]garcia1970 wrote:
[quote]reddog6376 wrote:
[quote]garcia1970 wrote:
Actually, all I pretty much did was ask questions. This is EXACTLY what I expected, though.
If you don’t believe in evolution, as most religious nuts don’t, you might homeschool your children to keep them from learning about it, right? You don’t believe christianity has been anti-science for thousands of years? You know what I meant, you are just pissed that it is true.
So much hate here. More personal attacks. More BS about professor this and fraud that. If you are not rich and vote to lower taxes on the rich, while services you use are cut, you truely are out of your mind. You people are so far gone that there is no point in debate.[/quote]
This only demonstrates that you don’t understand supporting something on principle. People of principle vote & support things because they are right, not based on how much money it put’s in their pocket. [/quote]
uh. ok. Capitalism is based on self-interest, as you like to say. That is a silly statement.[/quote]
And intelligent people realize there is more to “self-interest” than how much money a particular proposal will put in their pocket.
[/quote]
Like having an educated population, adequate health care, safe food and water and air, safe cities, and a society with fair wages and even distribution of wealth.
ok, I get it.[/quote]
The free market does all those things better than government ever could and there are numerous examples for pretty much all of those services to back that up.
Have you ever actually studied how well what you believe actually works? [/quote]
where is this free market ?[/quote]
Answer: The free market system is in FULL EFFECT in post-secondary education. For-profit colleges such as University of Phoenix, Kaplan, Devry, etc. How’s that working out? I would LOVE to hear your opinions.[/quote]
http://www.pc.maricopa.edu/data/GlobalFiles/file/financial_aid/loan-citi.pdf
[quote]reddog6376 wrote:
[quote]pittbulll wrote:
[quote]reddog6376 wrote:
[quote]garcia1970 wrote:
You guys are the biggest assholes ever. Whatever 72% of Anmericans support raising taxes on the rich over cutting SS, Medicare or Medicaid. Even this will most probably benefit you, as I’m sure none of you are wealthy, you will still bitch.
ok. Get back in your bunkers and put the tin foil back over your heads and finish your pipe bombs.
Zeb, no surprise you are a follower of Fallwell. You are filled with anger and hate just like him. Typical Evangelical --as you Reddog. You confirm all the stereotypes. Like Jesus always said, “fuck the poor and every man for himself.”
[/quote]
Like Jesus said, “Transfer your responsibility for charity to the gov’t, then you don’t have to worry about it”. Oh wait, he didn’t say that either.
[/quote]
Give unto Ceasar what is Ceasar’s[/quote]
And you still don’t understand the context of this quote…[/quote]
Do you mean I do not believe the line of shit the Christian Republicans try and feed the altruistic Democrats
It is a well-established fact that humans ALWAYS work better if (1) you get paid the same amount no matter how hard you work (2) its almost impossible to get fired (3) you work in a large bureaucratic system.
Almost as well-established is that teachers work better when they are not allowed to be creative and actually teach, but have to follow directions written by bureaucrats in state capitals. Creativity flourishes in large schools with huge classes and a heavy layer of bureaucracy.
[quote]pittbulll wrote:
[quote]reddog6376 wrote:
[quote]garcia1970 wrote:
You guys are the biggest assholes ever. Whatever 72% of Anmericans support raising taxes on the rich over cutting SS, Medicare or Medicaid. Even this will most probably benefit you, as I’m sure none of you are wealthy, you will still bitch.
ok. Get back in your bunkers and put the tin foil back over your heads and finish your pipe bombs.
Zeb, no surprise you are a follower of Fallwell. You are filled with anger and hate just like him. Typical Evangelical --as you Reddog. You confirm all the stereotypes. Like Jesus always said, “fuck the poor and every man for himself.”
[/quote]
Like Jesus said, “Transfer your responsibility for charity to the gov’t, then you don’t have to worry about it”. Oh wait, he didn’t say that either.
[/quote]
Give unto Ceasar what is Ceasar’s[/quote]
I could fart in his general direction?
[quote]pittbulll wrote:
[quote]reddog6376 wrote:
[quote]pittbulll wrote:
[quote]reddog6376 wrote:
[quote]garcia1970 wrote:
You guys are the biggest assholes ever. Whatever 72% of Anmericans support raising taxes on the rich over cutting SS, Medicare or Medicaid. Even this will most probably benefit you, as I’m sure none of you are wealthy, you will still bitch.
ok. Get back in your bunkers and put the tin foil back over your heads and finish your pipe bombs.
Zeb, no surprise you are a follower of Fallwell. You are filled with anger and hate just like him. Typical Evangelical --as you Reddog. You confirm all the stereotypes. Like Jesus always said, “fuck the poor and every man for himself.”
[/quote]
Like Jesus said, “Transfer your responsibility for charity to the gov’t, then you don’t have to worry about it”. Oh wait, he didn’t say that either.
[/quote]
Give unto Ceasar what is Ceasar’s[/quote]
And you still don’t understand the context of this quote…[/quote]
Do you mean I do not believe the line of shit the Christian Republicans try and feed the altruistic Democrats
[/quote]
No, he means you do not get it.
At all.
[quote]garcia1970 wrote:
[quote]pittbulll wrote:
[quote]Gaius Octavius wrote:
[quote]garcia1970 wrote:
[quote]reddog6376 wrote:
[quote]garcia1970 wrote:
[quote]reddog6376 wrote:
[quote]garcia1970 wrote:
Actually, all I pretty much did was ask questions. This is EXACTLY what I expected, though.
If you don’t believe in evolution, as most religious nuts don’t, you might homeschool your children to keep them from learning about it, right? You don’t believe christianity has been anti-science for thousands of years? You know what I meant, you are just pissed that it is true.
So much hate here. More personal attacks. More BS about professor this and fraud that. If you are not rich and vote to lower taxes on the rich, while services you use are cut, you truely are out of your mind. You people are so far gone that there is no point in debate.[/quote]
This only demonstrates that you don’t understand supporting something on principle. People of principle vote & support things because they are right, not based on how much money it put’s in their pocket. [/quote]
uh. ok. Capitalism is based on self-interest, as you like to say. That is a silly statement.[/quote]
And intelligent people realize there is more to “self-interest” than how much money a particular proposal will put in their pocket.
[/quote]
Like having an educated population, adequate health care, safe food and water and air, safe cities, and a society with fair wages and even distribution of wealth.
ok, I get it.[/quote]
The free market does all those things better than government ever could and there are numerous examples for pretty much all of those services to back that up.
Have you ever actually studied how well what you believe actually works? [/quote]
where is this free market ?[/quote]
Answer: The free market system is in FULL EFFECT in post-secondary education. For-profit colleges such as University of Phoenix, Kaplan, Devry, etc. How’s that working out? I would LOVE to hear your opinions.[/quote]
No comments on the free market system at work at for-profit institutions? Would any of you send your kids there or attend one yourselves?
They are VERY profitable. Then the market has rewarded excellence, right?