US Has Lowest Minimum Wage, Most Young People Without Jobs

[quote]BlueCollarTr8n wrote:

[quote]Phoenix44e wrote:
If we want people to better themselves then we need to give them the ability to find a way to do so. Where the minimum wage is currently in nh, I don’t see how that is possible. (I’m only speaking for my state because I don’t know what the cost of living is anywhere else)
[/quote]

IMO…the answer isn’t increasing the pay for entry level work, it’s creating more positions to move on to once the entry level skills are mastered.
[/quote]

I can agree to that. however I don’t believe that those positions are there. Furthermore I don’t believe that most of these companies want those positions to be available.

[quote]BlueCollarTr8n wrote:

[quote]Phoenix44e wrote:
If we want people to better themselves then we need to give them the ability to find a way to do so. Where the minimum wage is currently in nh, I don’t see how that is possible. (I’m only speaking for my state because I don’t know what the cost of living is anywhere else)
[/quote]

IMO…the answer isn’t increasing the pay for entry level work, it’s creating more positions to move on to once the entry level skills are mastered.
[/quote]

Which requires companies to grow, so they hire more. It is hard to grow when you have to pay more than what something is worse.

When you work for an entity with nearly 1000 employees, the overwhelming majority of which are low skilled, incremental increases in pay are not quite that far fetched so my example really does hold true.

[quote]Phoenix44e wrote:

Also, our price did not change, we just got more done in a shorter period of time.

[/quote]

This statement contradicted itself.

The price to the outside consumer may not have changed, however the price did in fact change.

Basic economics, not everything is measured in dollars.

[quote]Phoenix44e wrote:
Furthermore I don’t believe that most of these companies want those positions to be available. [/quote]

This would defeat the entire purpose of forming and running a company if one were to stifle themselves like this.

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

[quote]Phoenix44e wrote:
It’s not my fault that certain companies choose to abide by the bare minimum forced by law. If they choose to go that route than unfortunately yes, more law will be required to change it.[/quote]

A company will pay necessary labor what it is worth in the market. It isn’t that they choose to pay low wage, it is that the skills required to do it are low or not there at all, and that labor, in terms of market are low.

If I have a job, lets call it “A”. Job A is very demanding, stressful and you need a certain level of skill to do it that requires a college degree. I offer that job to 100 candidates at a job fair. I offer it to them at 30k a year.

Will, let’s say Push offers the same job. But he offers candidates 50k to do the job.

Who do you think is going to attack the better employees?

There is a relative mountain of evidence that shows hiring the right employee and taking care of them makes you more money than temp labor. So if sustained quality employees are my goal, what should I pay my employee?

Let’s say I have job B. Job B is pouring coffee into a cup and handing it to people that drive thru. Should they make as much as people working job A? If not, what do I do with person A’s salary if I’m forced to pay people doing Job B suddenly get a $2 raise? (A 27% raise, which is insane high).

There is more here, but I’ll stop for now.

Okay. There is overhead to take into account. Typical figures are between 20-30%. So for every dollar in wages a company pays, it typically costs $1.30 to the company after it is all said and done.

So, you 1,560 is actually closer to 2,000. Now that is per year. Well if I have 50 employees, 15 of which are part time, that is 30,000. So now here are my choices:

  1. I have a 30k increase in costs. So in order for my company to grow even one dollar I need a 30,001 increase in revenue, assuming all other costs are the same. ouch

  2. I can trim 30k of other costs. Anyone who understands margin, and most successful people do, know cutting 30k of costs, just to break even, is a bitch. And if I cut costs, guess what costs are elastic enough to cut? Payroll costs. So I’m firing people.

  3. I can take a 30k pay cut… No one else is willing to live on less, why should I eat a shit sandwich the size of 30k?

Because the government is forcing their employer to pay them more than market dictates. So rather than increase everyone’s taxes 3% and hand it to them, they force us to pay for it through the effects of MW, and the employer to hand it to them.

There is zero increase in value added, they didn’t earn the raise. Their skills are still low, still only worth X. So giving them X+2 simply is socializing the cost burden of their low skill. Which is welfare, except the government isn’t the middle man in the way that it cuts the check. But rather the middleman in that it regulates the amount of your check.

Why can’t they find their own ability?

I out earned my parents, and it isn’t like I grew up drinking Dom. [/quote]

Brilliantly articulated.[/quote]

OK, well…You got me.

I understand the situation better now. I quess I got lost empathizing with those individuals because of my past experiences. Shoulda left my emotions out and looked at it black and white.

It still sucks for said individual.

What if we just ask people to take less of a profit?

I kid I kid

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

[quote]Phoenix44e wrote:

Also, our price did not change, we just got more done in a shorter period of time.

[/quote]

This statement contradicted itself.

The price to the outside consumer may not have changed, however the price did in fact change.

Basic economics, not everything is measured in dollars. [/quote]

How did it contradict itself? To put a roof on a house it cost 1k and took 1 week with 2guys. Now it costs 1k but takes 3 days with 3 guys. Consumers price is the same. Owners profit is the same. And employes pay are the same.

No, owners profit increases because you can now put two roofs on in the time it used to take one. Increase profits because of increased efficiency.

[quote]Phoenix44e wrote:

It still sucks for said individual.

[/quote]

Absolutely it does. There is no doubt that the person in your scenario is up shit’s creek without a paddle.

However, if the government comes in and tows their boat up the stream, what incentive is there for said person to actually swim to shore and leave chit creek forever.

There is a reason “collectivism” and cradle to the grave government collapses every time it has been tried. This, incentive to achieve, is one of the main reasons. Without incentive, everyone just rides along shit river tolerating the smell.

[quote]jbpick86 wrote:
No, owners profit increases because you can now put two roofs on in the time it used to take one. Increase profits because of increased efficiency. [/quote]

And increased efficiency often means you are working harder for your $18 than you were before.

If your effort increases with your pay, your pay is technically stagnant.

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

[quote]jbpick86 wrote:
No, owners profit increases because you can now put two roofs on in the time it used to take one. Increase profits because of increased efficiency. [/quote]

And increased efficiency often means you are working harder for your $18 than you were before.

If your effort increases with your pay, your pay is technically stagnant. [/quote]

Exactly, because if three guys are doing twice the work of two then those three guys are having to work harder (increasing individual output by 25% if I am not mistaken), because you doubled the work without doubling the workforce.

[quote]Phoenix44e wrote:

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

[quote]Phoenix44e wrote:

And again, this is just for one person. So adding even 1 child to the mix, said person would barely have a chance to ever get ahead. Let alone make it out of their shitty situation. [/quote]

So it is my responsibility to fix this for them? So the government should force a company to pay this person more than their work is worth? For what? What net gain does the person get, when forcing a food shop to pay people $2 more an hour forces them to increase their prices and/or reduce the people they employ?

What is the upper limit in MW in your scenario then?

Do you see how it is just another form of welfare? The increase in wages isn’t “free” money.

[/quote]

an extra .75 cent raise to our nh minimum wage would increase a persons salary by $1,560. Do you think that would really break a companies back?

[/quote]

Do you own a company?

Because I am a partner in one, and your statement is the height of hypocrisy.

Pass the buck to the owners…it’s like the fucking liberal mantra.

I mean seriously.

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

[quote]Phoenix44e wrote:

It still sucks for said individual.

[/quote]

Absolutely it does. There is no doubt that the person in your scenario is up shit’s creek without a paddle.

However, if the government comes in and tows their boat up the stream, what incentive is there for said person to actually swim to shore and leave chit creek forever.

There is a reason “collectivism” and cradle to the grave government collapses every time it has been tried. This, incentive to achieve, is one of the main reasons. Without incentive, everyone just rides along shit river tolerating the smell. [/quote]

CB all I am thinking about is Shawshank Redemption where he is “crawling through 500 yards of foul smell I can not imagine.”

[quote]dmaddox wrote:

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

[quote]Phoenix44e wrote:

It still sucks for said individual.

[/quote]

Absolutely it does. There is no doubt that the person in your scenario is up shit’s creek without a paddle.

However, if the government comes in and tows their boat up the stream, what incentive is there for said person to actually swim to shore and leave chit creek forever.

There is a reason “collectivism” and cradle to the grave government collapses every time it has been tried. This, incentive to achieve, is one of the main reasons. Without incentive, everyone just rides along shit river tolerating the smell. [/quote]

CB all I am thinking about is Shawshank Redemption where he is “crawling through 500 yards of foul smell I can not imagine.”
[/quote]

Right, and what happens when he gets to the other side? Sandy beaches and fast loose women.

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

[quote]dmaddox wrote:

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

[quote]Phoenix44e wrote:

It still sucks for said individual.

[/quote]

Absolutely it does. There is no doubt that the person in your scenario is up shit’s creek without a paddle.

However, if the government comes in and tows their boat up the stream, what incentive is there for said person to actually swim to shore and leave chit creek forever.

There is a reason “collectivism” and cradle to the grave government collapses every time it has been tried. This, incentive to achieve, is one of the main reasons. Without incentive, everyone just rides along shit river tolerating the smell. [/quote]

CB all I am thinking about is Shawshank Redemption where he is “crawling through 500 yards of foul smell I can not imagine.”
[/quote]

Right, and what happens when he gets to the other side? Sandy beaches and fast loose women. [/quote]

I am making sure I do not stay in the shit tunnel or creek. I got out as quick as I could. Now it is to move on not being Middle Class. I hate mediocrity.

[quote]UtahLama wrote:

[quote]Phoenix44e wrote:

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

[quote]Phoenix44e wrote:

And again, this is just for one person. So adding even 1 child to the mix, said person would barely have a chance to ever get ahead. Let alone make it out of their shitty situation. [/quote]

So it is my responsibility to fix this for them? So the government should force a company to pay this person more than their work is worth? For what? What net gain does the person get, when forcing a food shop to pay people $2 more an hour forces them to increase their prices and/or reduce the people they employ?

What is the upper limit in MW in your scenario then?

Do you see how it is just another form of welfare? The increase in wages isn’t “free” money.

[/quote]

an extra .75 cent raise to our nh minimum wage would increase a persons salary by $1,560. Do you think that would really break a companies back?

[/quote]

Do you own a company?

Because I am a partner in one, and your statement is the height of hypocrisy.

Pass the buck to the owners…it’s like the fucking liberal mantra.[/quote]

People don’t understand the amount of risk and hard work associated with starting your own business. They’d rather bitch about how the owners make too much of a profit. If you look at a business in its infancy and see how these owners are working 60+ hours a week for no money then maybe you can appreciate how they’ve earned their right to profit. At about that time they would love some steady, guaranteed pay–no matter how small.

[quote]CroatianRage wrote:

[quote]UtahLama wrote:

[quote]Phoenix44e wrote:

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

[quote]Phoenix44e wrote:

And again, this is just for one person. So adding even 1 child to the mix, said person would barely have a chance to ever get ahead. Let alone make it out of their shitty situation. [/quote]

So it is my responsibility to fix this for them? So the government should force a company to pay this person more than their work is worth? For what? What net gain does the person get, when forcing a food shop to pay people $2 more an hour forces them to increase their prices and/or reduce the people they employ?

What is the upper limit in MW in your scenario then?

Do you see how it is just another form of welfare? The increase in wages isn’t “free” money.

[/quote]

an extra .75 cent raise to our nh minimum wage would increase a persons salary by $1,560. Do you think that would really break a companies back?

[/quote]

Do you own a company?

Because I am a partner in one, and your statement is the height of hypocrisy.

Pass the buck to the owners…it’s like the fucking liberal mantra.[/quote]

People don’t understand the amount of risk and hard work associated with starting your own business. They’d rather bitch about how the owners make too much of a profit. If you look at a business in its infancy and see how these owners are working 60+ hours a week for no money then maybe you can appreciate how they’ve earned their right to profit. At about that time they would love some steady, guaranteed pay–no matter how small.
[/quote]

You got it.

Guess who is the first one not to get paid if there is not enough cash for payroll.

What’s a few more thousand a year tho right?