US Has Lowest Minimum Wage, Most Young People Without Jobs

[quote]jbpick86 wrote:
Milton Freidman says:

The fact is, the programs labeled as being ?for the poor,? or ?for the needy,? almost always have effects exactly the opposite of those which their well-intentioned sponsors intend them to have.

Let me give you a very simple example ? take the minimum wage law. Its well-meaning sponsors? there are always in these cases two groups of sponsors ? there are the well-meaning sponsors and there are the special interests, who are using the well-meaning sponsors as front men. You almost always when you have bad programs have an unholy coalition of the do-gooders on the one hand, and the special interest on the other. The minimum wage law is as clear a case as you could want. The special interests are of course the trade unions ? the monopolistic trade craft unions. The do-gooders believe that by passing a law saying that nobody shall get less than $9 per hour (adjusted for today) or whatever the minimum wage is, you are helping poor people who need the money. You are doing nothing of the kind. What you are doing is to assure, that people whose skills, are not sufficient to justify that kind of a wage will be unemployed.

The minimum wage law is most properly described as a law saying that employers must discriminate against people who have low skills. That?s what the law says. The law says that here?s a man who has a skill that would justify a wage of $5 or $6 per hour (adjusted for today), but you may not employ him, it?s illegal, because if you employ him you must pay him $9 per hour. So what?s the result? To employ him at $9 per hour is to engage in charity. There?s nothing wrong with charity. But most employers are not in the position to engage in that kind of charity. Thus, the consequences of minimum wage laws have been almost wholly bad. We have increased unemployment and increased poverty.

Moreover, the effects have been concentrated on the groups that the do-gooders would most like to help. The people who have been hurt most by the minimum wage laws are the blacks. I have often said that the most anti-black law on the books of this land is the minimum wage law.

There is absolutely no positive objective achieved by the minimum wage law. Its real purpose is to reduce competition for the trade unions and make it easier for them to maintain the higher wages of their privileged members.

Thomas Sowell says:

Governor Mitt Romney’s statement about not worrying about the poor has been treated as a gaffe in much of the media, and those in the Republican establishment who have been rushing toward endorsing his coronation as the GOP’s nominee for president ? with 90 percent of the delegates still not yet chosen ? have been trying to sweep his statement under the rug.But Romney’s statement about not worrying about the poor ? because they ?have a very ample safety net? ? was followed by a statement that was not just a slip of the tongue, and should be a defining moment in telling us about this man’s qualifications as a conservative and, more important, as a potential President of the United States.Mitt Romney has come out in support of indexing the minimum wage law, to have it rise automatically to keep pace with inflation. To many people, that would seem like a small thing that can be left for economists or statisticians to deal with.But to people who call themselves conservatives, and aspire to public office, there is no excuse for not being aware of what a major social disaster the minimum wage law has been for the young, the poor and especially for young and poor blacks.It is not written in the stars that young black males must have astronomical rates of unemployment. It is written implicitly in the minimum wage laws.We have gotten so used to seeing unemployment rates of 30 or 40 percent for black teenage males that it might come as a shock to many people to learn that the unemployment rate for sixteen- and seventeen-year-old black males was just under 10 percent back in 1948. Moreover, it was slightly lower than the unemployment rate for white males of the same age.How could this be?The economic reason is quite plain. The inflation of the 1940s had pushed money wages for even unskilled, entry-level labor above the level specified in the minimum wage law passed ten years earlier. In other words, there was in practical effect no national minimum wage law in the late 1940s.Liberals were of course appalled that the federal minimum wage law had lagged so far behind inflation – and, in 1950, they began a series of escalations of the minimum wage level over the years.It was in the wake of these escalations that black teenage unemployment rose to levels that were three or four times the level in 1948. Even in the most prosperous years of later times, the unemployment rate for black teenage males was some multiple of what it was even in the recession year of 1949. And now it was often double the unemployment rate for white males of the same ages.This was not the first or the last time that liberals did something that made them feel good about themselves, while leaving havoc in their wake, especially among the poor whom they were supposedly helping.Nor are such consequences of minimum wage laws peculiar to blacks or to the United States. In Western European countries whose social policies liberals consider more ?advanced? than our own, including more generous minimum wage laws and other employer-mandated benefits, it has been common in even prosperous years for unemployment rates among young people to be 20 percent or higher.The economic reason is not complicated. When you set minimum wage levels higher than many inexperienced young people are worth, they don’t get hired. It is not rocket science.Milton Friedman explained all this, half a century ago, in his popular little book for non-economists, ?Capitalism and Freedom.? So have many other people. If a presidential candidate who calls himself ?conservative? has still not heard of these facts, that simply shows that you can call yourself anything you want to[/quote]
Economist Robert Wolff has stated that while some may loose out in an increase in minimum wage others benefit. There is an increase in demand via the increase in wages and that creates hiring to keep up with the new demand. Those people’s lives are made better and there are new jobs to fill the increase in demand. Essentially the loss of jobs is made up for by the new ones created. Where was unemployment in 1968 when minimum wage had it’s highest purchasing power?

[quote]Zeppelin795 wrote:

Yeah he has studied this extensively but he is a clown.[/quote]

Yes. Anyone that thinks either a) 52k a year for entry level, unskilled, untrained labor is a good idea, is a clown. He is a clown because he is an outside, third party that hasn’t the slightest clue as to what it takes to run a business. I know you and he hate them, but the people that actually run the businesses are important, because without them, there are zero jobs.

He is also a clown because b) anyone that thinks communism is a good system not only denies nature but also contradicts himself, in that, if a group of people can be trusted to rule and everyone will see themselves as equal, the same situation would happen in a free market world with private ownership of personal property.

So yes, he may study all he wants, if he draws the conclusions of a clown, he is in fact a clown.

Increase in what?

2.7% of what?

What about the global economy of today is actually comparable to the economy of the 60’s?

[quote] If you believe in free-market economist Henry Hazlitt’s posit that an increase in wage is only valid if there is an increase in productivity, then what is your defense of that component of his research?
[/quote]

You don’t even understand the question you are asking me do you?

[quote]Zeppelin795 wrote:
Where was unemployment in 1968 when minimum wage had it’s highest purchasing power?[/quote]

In what massively significant ways is the economy different now than in 1968?

min wage doesn’t exist in a vacuum.

[quote]jbpick86 wrote:

RP: Absolutely, one of the things. One reason is it came completely from the movement, not from my own research agenda. I wasn?t doing work on it at all, I had no background on minimum wage or labor economics. It was because Madeline [Janis] approached me.

Doing economics and talking to people outside of academia made it all come alive to me. Talking to activists, connecting to them and understanding what it takes to get something passed. I decided I was going to listen to all the critics of living wages and take their criticisms seriously. Until I could convince myself through research that they were wrong, I was going to assume that the critics were right. I wanted to do enough research in a serious way to convince myself that the arguments for a living wage would really work
[/quote]

The guy has an agenda to his research which is to convince himself of something he wants to believe, and Zep wonders why we think he is an In-valid Kook?!?!

[quote]SkyzykS wrote:

[quote]jbpick86 wrote:

RP: Absolutely, one of the things. One reason is it came completely from the movement, not from my own research agenda. I wasn?t doing work on it at all, I had no background on minimum wage or labor economics. It was because Madeline [Janis] approached me.

Doing economics and talking to people outside of academia made it all come alive to me. Talking to activists, connecting to them and understanding what it takes to get something passed. I decided I was going to listen to all the critics of living wages and take their criticisms seriously. Until I could convince myself through research that they were wrong, I was going to assume that the critics were right. I wanted to do enough research in a serious way to convince myself that the arguments for a living wage would really work
[/quote]

The guy has an agenda to his research which is to convince himself of something he wants to believe, and Zep wonders why we think he is an In-valid Kook?!?!
[/quote]

I think Zep is an In-Valid Kook. Oh you are talking about the Economist.

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
I thought it should be $12.45/hr. What number shall we use?

How about $48/hr? Got a problem with that?[/quote]

The higher the minimum wage, the more worthless the currency.

I think everyone should make 100K an hour.

[quote]Zeppelin795 wrote:
Economist Robert Wolff has stated that while some may loose out in an increase in minimum wage others benefit. There is an increase in demand via the increase in wages and that creates hiring to keep up with the new demand. Those people’s lives are made better and there are new jobs to fill the increase in demand. Essentially the loss of jobs is made up for by the new ones created. Where was unemployment in 1968 when minimum wage had it’s highest purchasing power?[/quote]

Thanks for the lack of sources.

[quote]Bauber wrote:
I think everyone should make 100K an hour. [/quote]

Why $100k? Lets become Zimbabwe and make it $1,000,000 an Hour.

When the economy is dragging, unskilled labourers generally get hit the hardest. Young people also have far less work experience and tend to be the least skilled of the unskilled labourers.

So, unless you’re arguing that the recession is the result of how low the minimum wage is, you’ve no grounds for connecting the two as though there’s a causal relationship. If that is what you’re saying, you should be made aware that part-time workers today have roughly the same purchasing power as the average full-time worker a century ago. But hey, everyone needs the newest iPad, right?

[quote]dmaddox wrote:

[quote]SkyzykS wrote:

[quote]jbpick86 wrote:

RP: Absolutely, one of the things. One reason is it came completely from the movement, not from my own research agenda. I wasn?t doing work on it at all, I had no background on minimum wage or labor economics. It was because Madeline [Janis] approached me.

Doing economics and talking to people outside of academia made it all come alive to me. Talking to activists, connecting to them and understanding what it takes to get something passed. I decided I was going to listen to all the critics of living wages and take their criticisms seriously. Until I could convince myself through research that they were wrong, I was going to assume that the critics were right. I wanted to do enough research in a serious way to convince myself that the arguments for a living wage would really work
[/quote]

The guy has an agenda to his research which is to convince himself of something he wants to believe, and Zep wonders why we think he is an In-valid Kook?!?!
[/quote]

I think Zep is an In-Valid Kook. Oh you are talking about the Economist.
[/quote]

Either way, they both work.

[quote]RyuuKyuzo wrote:
When the economy is dragging, unskilled labourers generally get hit the hardest. Young people also have far less work experience and tend to be the least skilled of the unskilled labourers.

So, unless you’re arguing that the recession is the result of how low the minimum wage is, you’ve no grounds for connecting the two as though there’s a causal relationship. If that is what you’re saying, you should be made aware that part-time workers today have roughly the same purchasing power as the average full-time worker a century ago. But hey, everyone needs the newest iPad, right? [/quote]

Wow a century ago. Look at how far we’ve advanced. You sound like countingbeans, as long as everyone has a TV in their rom he thinks we are richer. Never mind the things that really matter are becoming farther and farther out of reach like education and healthcare.

[quote]SkyzykS wrote:

[quote]dmaddox wrote:

[quote]SkyzykS wrote:

[quote]jbpick86 wrote:

RP: Absolutely, one of the things. One reason is it came completely from the movement, not from my own research agenda. I wasn?t doing work on it at all, I had no background on minimum wage or labor economics. It was because Madeline [Janis] approached me.

Doing economics and talking to people outside of academia made it all come alive to me. Talking to activists, connecting to them and understanding what it takes to get something passed. I decided I was going to listen to all the critics of living wages and take their criticisms seriously. Until I could convince myself through research that they were wrong, I was going to assume that the critics were right. I wanted to do enough research in a serious way to convince myself that the arguments for a living wage would really work
[/quote]

The guy has an agenda to his research which is to convince himself of something he wants to believe, and Zep wonders why we think he is an In-valid Kook?!?!
[/quote]

I think Zep is an In-Valid Kook. Oh you are talking about the Economist.
[/quote]

Either way, they both work.

[/quote]

What about The Heritage Foundation? Do they have an agenda?

[quote]pat wrote:

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
I thought it should be $12.45/hr. What number shall we use?

How about $48/hr? Got a problem with that?[/quote]

The higher the minimum wage, the more worthless the currency. [/quote]

Was that the result in 1968? is the Aussie Dollar more worthless because of the higher minimum wage?

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

[quote]Zeppelin795 wrote:
Where was unemployment in 1968 when minimum wage had it’s highest purchasing power?[/quote]

In what massively significant ways is the economy different now than in 1968?

min wage doesn’t exist in a vacuum. [/quote]

Well for one, major corporations didn’t ship nearly as many jobs overseas.

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

[quote]Zeppelin795 wrote:

Yeah he has studied this extensively but he is a clown.[/quote]

Yes. Anyone that thinks either a) 52k a year for entry level, unskilled, untrained labor is a good idea, is a clown. He is a clown because he is an outside, third party that hasn’t the slightest clue as to what it takes to run a business. I know you and he hate them, but the people that actually run the businesses are important, because without them, there are zero jobs.

He is also a clown because b) anyone that thinks communism is a good system not only denies nature but also contradicts himself, in that, if a group of people can be trusted to rule and everyone will see themselves as equal, the same situation would happen in a free market world with private ownership of personal property.

So yes, he may study all he wants, if he draws the conclusions of a clown, he is in fact a clown.

Increase in what?

2.7% of what?

What about the global economy of today is actually comparable to the economy of the 60’s?

[quote] If you believe in free-market economist Henry Hazlitt’s posit that an increase in wage is only valid if there is an increase in productivity, then what is your defense of that component of his research?
[/quote]

You don’t even understand the question you are asking me do you?[/quote]

10.65/hr =52k a year.

2.7% rise in costs.

I know what I’m asking but if you need a bouncing ball above the words I can’t help you. I can only infer that you do not agree with Hazlett’s posit so what is your argument against rising wages being tied to rising productivity.

[quote]Zeppelin795 wrote:

Was that the result in 1968? [/quote]

Wow half a century ago. Look at how far we’ve advanced. You sound like a broken record, as long as you can pick one detail that is only but a portion of the entire story you think we were richer. Never mind the things that really matter are becoming farther and farther out of reach like common sense and thought.

What website do you get your talking points from?

[quote]Zeppelin795 wrote:

[quote]RyuuKyuzo wrote:
When the economy is dragging, unskilled labourers generally get hit the hardest. Young people also have far less work experience and tend to be the least skilled of the unskilled labourers.

So, unless you’re arguing that the recession is the result of how low the minimum wage is, you’ve no grounds for connecting the two as though there’s a causal relationship. If that is what you’re saying, you should be made aware that part-time workers today have roughly the same purchasing power as the average full-time worker a century ago. But hey, everyone needs the newest iPad, right? [/quote]

Wow a century ago. Look at how far we’ve advanced. You sound like countingbeans, as long as everyone has a TV in their rom he thinks we are richer. Never mind the things that really matter are becoming farther and farther out of reach like education and healthcare.
[/quote]

Consider the implications of part-time working students and young adults having the same purchasing power as the average worker a century ago. People managed to get by then, why can’t they now?

The reason why you guys went into such an economic slump has to do with your country’s retarded banking system paired with an obscene amount of red-tape holding back the expansion of small businesses.

You can raise the minimum wage all you want, but all it’s going to do is increase unemployment and/or the prices these businesses sell their products at.

As a side note, countingbeans has struck me as a bright man with a solid grasp on economic principles, so I genuinely take the comparison as a compliment.

[quote]Zeppelin795 wrote:

10.65/hr =52k a year. [/quote]

lol, what?

52k a year = 1,000 a week
40 hours in a week so 1,000/40=25

What hell are you talking about?

Which costs? Over what baseline? Over how long? In what industries?

[quote]I know what I’m asking but if you need a bouncing ball above the words I can’t help you. I can only infer that you do not agree with Hazlett’s posit so what is your argument against rising wages being tied to rising productivity.
[/quote]

No you don’t know what you are talking about, you can’t even do basic math. lol @ 10.65 being equal to 52k a year.

I haven’t read Hazlett, however assuming your relay of his opinion is more accurate than your arithmetic, I would tend to agree with him.

But you don’t even understand what he is saying. Have you ever figured out what “overhead” is yet?

Lets do it this way:

40 hours in a week, work 52 weeks a year

40x52=2080

So, 2,080 hours in a year.

2,080x$25 = 52,000

lol, just lol