Unions Hunting Wal-Mart

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
61

There’s alot of different ways to look at the issue, and Wal Mart seems to be at the head because they’re the ones being singled out right now, but it pretty much holds true in other industries also (ie: Wall Street bonuses, etc.)

Business wise - Very few do it better than Wal Mart to provide needed items at a low cost, but it comes, at least in my opinion at too much of a social cost. In smaller towns, they tend to put the small businesses out and leave some people with no choice but to work there for their wages or nothing. Unions hate Wal Mart (I am notoriously pro union, just for the record) because they refuse to allow them into their stores. Very good decision from a business point of view because it keeps costs down, but once again, it prevents people from a chance to make more money.

My other problem with Wal Mart is that they do not share their profits enough. If you look up the richest people in the US, about 6 out of the top 20 are Waltons, the majority shareholders of Wal Mart. One family does not need to be worth around $100 Billion. At the least that should be getting passed down to the employees in terms of better health benefits, etc. This also holds true in some of the other major companies and industries in the country, including our wonderful oil industry, who recorded record profits in the quarter that Hurrican Katrina ocurred. At that point, the majority of the $ in the hands of a few should not be happening to this level. It’s actually as bad right now as during the Industrial Revolution in the early 1900’s.

Educationally, yes, we all do have the “opportunity” (yes, Doogie, I do agree with you about something!!!) to go to school, but it’s your own decision. If you don’t want to put the work in, then there won’t be any extra benefits later. Other opportunities exist anyway. You could start a business, get other certifications, etc. The opportunities are there for you to take. If you don’t, that’s your own damn fault. Personally, I went to school full time, worked overnights, construction, etc. to get to where I am now. Hard work pays off, but at no point should anything be handed out on a silver platter.

62

did you guys see the sale walmart had today? awesome. i just got back. yeaaaa walmart forever. come join us. it’s bliisssssss.walmarrrt.walmarrrt.droolingggggg.walmarrrt.resistance is futile. join us or perish.

63

[quote]vroom wrote:
Joker,

My point was not about minimum wage… it was about the philosophical issue of people being able to get ahead in life. There is a large difference between the two.[/quote]

Sorry, I only know what you type and post. There’s no way to infer your true meanings, if they are other than what you post.

64

I know you see me as a liberal, but that doesn’t mean I actually want to place everyone on a big government tit so they can play Ninendo all fucking day every day for the rest of their lives. My viewpoint is not that of your RNC comic books.

Yes, but my words aren’t the only ones with meanings. Prior to my post, perhaps you only read the posts of those you hate, things started to get somewhat philosophical.

It was suggested that people deserved to get stuck on the very bottom, because they made bad choices.

My contention is not, and has never been, to create that huge government tit, but that IF we can find a way to get these people make better choices, or if they later become motivated to do so, it is in our best interest to find a way to have them improve their own lot and contribute more to society.

It’s still going to take work and effort on their part, it’s just a matter of deciding that there is no reason to deny them further opportunities later on in life. I understand the concept of life being tough and all that, I really do, but economically, it really is in our best interests to forgive and forget (non-criminal) mistakes and let these people better themselves.

[quote]I’ll wait to see how you squirm out of this.
[/quote]

No squirming required.

65

[quote]mazilla wrote:
did you guys see the sale walmart had today? awesome. i just got back. yeaaaa walmart forever. come join us. it’s bliisssssss.walmarrrt.walmarrrt.droolingggggg.walmarrrt.resistance is futile. join us or perish. [/quote]

This reminds me of that South Park episode where they trash Wal Mart!!!

66

[quote]vroom wrote:
Then explain yourself. Who is responsible for providing this comfort you speek of.

I know you see me as a liberal, but that doesn’t mean I actually want to place everyone on a big government tit so they can play Ninendo all fucking day every day for the rest of their lives. My viewpoint is not that of your RNC comic books.

Words have meaning. You can’t post shit like this, obviously from a position of complete ignorance, and then tell me I am making shit up. Clarify your ramblings. I believe my point is very clear, regardless of the misspelling of one word.

Yes, but my words aren’t the only ones with meanings. Prior to my post, perhaps you only read the posts of those you hate, things started to get somewhat philosophical.

It was suggested that people deserved to get stuck on the very bottom, because they made bad choices.

My contention is not, and has never been, to create that huge government tit, but that IF we can find a way to get these people make better choices, or if they later become motivated to do so, it is in our best interest to find a way to have them improve their own lot and contribute more to society.

It’s still going to take work and effort on their part, it’s just a matter of deciding that there is no reason to deny them further opportunities later on in life. I understand the concept of life being tough and all that, I really do, but economically, it really is in our best interests to forgive and forget (non-criminal) mistakes and let these people better themselves.
[/quote]

Show me where people are not allowed to better themselves. You seem to make the false assumption that people are not allowed to rise above their current condition because they are being punished for their ignorance.

If your view of conditions were indeed true, we would not hae an immigration problem, there would not be a Korean-owned donut shop on every corner in the D/FW area. And 30-somethings with a wife and two kids would not be able to go back to school and start over.

It is all about choices. Part of what makes our country so attractive to immigrants is the freedom to try, the freedom to succeed, and the freedom to fail.

To guarantee a safety net for laziness in this climate is just silly. It is at best a feel good measure, and at worst rewards those who are too lazy to try. Neither of those are good for society.

67

I think Wal Mart is often a scapegoat of a multitude of other issues. I have heard mentioned in this dicussion how people are forced to work at Wal Mart because they are unaware of their education opportunities…that sounds to me like a problem with the education system, not Wal Mart.

I have heard a lot of public outcry about Wal Mart, but last I checked, sales are still excellent. If people didn’t want Wal Mart in their town driving out small businesses, they wouldn’t shop there.

68

Where did I say that people are not allowed to better themselves? I’ve said that is the attitude that is expressed in these parts from time to time, that people deserve what they get and so forth.

You seem to make a lot of assumptions about what I assume.

[quote]It is all about choices. Part of what makes our country so attractive to immigrants is the freedom to try, the freedom to succeed, and the freedom to fail.

To guarantee a safety net for laziness in this climate is just silly. It is at best a feel good measure, and at worst rewards those who are too lazy to try. Neither of those are good for society.[/quote]

Once again, who the fuck is trying to guarantee a safety net for lazy people. Are you to lazy to even bother to figure out what I’m saying?

Stop with the talking points for once and actually listen to what people are saying around you.

Yes, there are choices that people can make, but sometimes it really is in our best interest to make it easier for people WILLING TO WORK to better themselves to do so.

A hypothetical example, a young married couple who practice birth control but still end up having a child. Wow. Now all the plans of having the wife go to work and further her career have to be shelved for a long long time.

Nobody made a “bad” choice. They got married, decided not to have children, did not choose to have an abortion, and chose to keep the child after birth. None of those choices are wrong, or the result of laziness or character flaws.

However, yes, life is tough. The dreams of this person, and this family, have just been shattered. Too bad. What would it hurt if we allowed decent hard working people, to overcome more obstacles than we do today?

Also, I know, I know that these people can make it, and that they can work like a son of a bitch, and they can actually make it happen anyway.

The idea isn’t necessarily to make sure everything is an extremely difficult struggle, but to lower the odd barrier a little here and there. So what if the next generation has it a bit easier than us, when it comes to the dangerous obstacles being softened, there is nothing wrong with letting more people succeed.

It seems that people guard their own success, hard work and overcoming of obstacles by making sure that everyone else has to cross the same damned minefield.

The minefield can be changed, with a few of the mines taken out. People will still have to be willing to walk across it, put in the effort to get an education or learn skills, save or invest wisely, avoid excess consumption of drugs and alcohol, refuse to live via crime and so on.

I’m not talking about traditional entitlement programs or bailing people out here.

69

If Wal-mart goes union, they will raise their prices to compensate their employees. The people who shop at Wal-mart will be hurt, having to pay higher prices. If a non-union shop is cheaper, those same people will go there and Wal-mart loses business. This will result in unemployment.

Therefore, unions cause unemployment.

70

[quote]vroom wrote:
God forbid people get any more than the absolute fucking minimum of anything… it would just be fucking horrible if people could earn a few extra bucks and have a bit more comfort in their lives.[/quote]

If they did the gov’t would find a way to get it anyway.

71

fact of the matter is you get what you are worth. if you are ain’t shit you don’t get shit. sorry, there has to be a difference in social classes, we are not communist’s. there will always be rich, there will always be poor, and there will always be a shit load of people in the middle. if you don’t like your position do something about it, but don’t expect others to do it for you. you want to live in the gutter and eat trash, fine by me.you want to live in a castle and look down at me, also fine. it’s your life fuck off, i’ve got my own to deal with.the only exception is if your really crazy, in which case you don’t care anyways, your to busy screaming at nothing as i drive by.

72

[quote]rainjack wrote:
doogie wrote:
I didn’t realize people were forced at gunpoint to work in Wal-Marts. That’s horrible. These poor victims were sitting in college classrooms trying to better themselves when suddenly armed Wal-Mart managers kicked in the doors, rounded them up and chained them behind the registers forcing them to work 40 hours a week for minimum wage. The horror!!!

My thoughts exactly. And who is forcing people to shop at the stores? It seems to me that the fat, lazy unions see a huge payday if they can start collecting union dues from all of the Wal Mart employees that are currently immune to their theivery.

Someone tell me how my life will be improved if some guido-looking union fuck gets his way and gets to fill his sack up at the expense of Wal Mart employees? [/quote]

The samething i was thinking…all the union is doing is making it seem like they are looking out for the peoples interest. I’m not saying walmart is ENTIRELY innocent but the are not as evil as the union and the media make them out to be. The union and these politicians are about as “bad” as walmart…

73

[quote]Headhunter wrote:
If Wal-mart goes union, they will raise their prices to compensate their employees. The people who shop at Wal-mart will be hurt, having to pay higher prices. If a non-union shop is cheaper, those same people will go there and Wal-mart loses business. This will result in unemployment.

Therefore, unions cause unemployment. [/quote]

What??? Basic supply and demand here, Headhunter. If the demand for the non-union business goes up, then they hire more employees and the unemployment level stays the same. The average wage rate, however, will go down. That’s why Wal Mart profits so well now. People are still willing to shop there in spite of their problems (whether you like Wal Mart or not, they have major problems right now with these issues) with labor and unions. Unions were originally formed to give normal working people more bargaining power and rights over their owners, and IN THEORY, that is why they still exist today. Look at one of my posts above - The Walton family is worth close to $100 Billion combined. They can cut the profits a little and spare the extra dimes to pay their people more liveable wages and better health care and still keep themselves filthy rich. That is the main issue with Wal Mart right now, and the main reason why they don’t want their stores unionized, besides the lawsuit against them for forcing their employees to work unpaid overtime.

74

[quote]redfreddy wrote:
I think Wal Mart is often a scapegoat of a multitude of other issues. I have heard mentioned in this dicussion how people are forced to work at Wal Mart because they are unaware of their education opportunities…that sounds to me like a problem with the education system, not Wal Mart.

I have heard a lot of public outcry about Wal Mart, but last I checked, sales are still excellent. If people didn’t want Wal Mart in their town driving out small businesses, they wouldn’t shop there.[/quote]

I think this might be in reference to my posts. I realize I was drifting off topic with my posts so I stopped commenting. Yes, there is a terrible problem with the education system.

I also dislike Wal-Mart for a variety of reasons. I feel it preys on the poor. The poor are generally less educated and less informed and don’t think about the bigger picture when shopping.

75

did you see the sale on wal-mart brand cruise missles? buy one get one free(equal or lesser value). someday?

76

This is in response to why immigrants are flooding here…

I cant speak from a “getting money to start a business” point of view but I can from “getting money from college” point of view.

For me to better myself it is IMPOSSIBLE for me to get money for college. IMPOSSIBLE! I can get loans but obviously at a price. When it comes time to hand out scholarships a white, straight, 4.0 gpa, right handed, fit, male is the last person they offer “free” money too. So for me to better myself I have to work a full-time job in order to fund my way through college. I’m choosing to “better” myself (not guaranteed) but at a large price. I lose a TON of my freedom as I’m studying and working all the time.

77

[quote]malonetd wrote:
I also dislike Wal-Mart for a variety of reasons. I feel it preys on the poor. The poor are generally less educated and less informed and don’t think about the bigger picture when shopping.
[/quote]

So you’re saying that if poor people were better educated and informed they would choose to spend more money and time shopping at other stores? I don’t think this is true. I don’t think most people, educated or not, look at Wal-Mart the way you do. They see it as a cheap and convenient place to shop, and that’s really as far as it goes. And if I was poor and had a family to support you can be sure I would be much more concerned with saving money on food and diapers then I would be about Wal-Mart’s employment policies, and I think that’s a perfectly rational decision to make.

78

But could it not also be argued that you are exercising a TON of your freedom as well, simply by making the decision to do this with your life?

79

[quote]Headhunter wrote:
If Wal-mart goes union, they will raise their prices to compensate their employees. [/quote]

I disagree, although that would likely be one factor, my suspicion is that prices would be raised disproportionately above the level necessary to offset employee benefits. This would most likely be done in the interest of making sure that profit projections are exceeded, as there would undoubtedly be a great deal of concern surrounding walmart stock were the employees to unionize. In this day in age corporate executives are far more concerned with the fluctuating value of their corporation’s stock than the actual business fundamentals of the corporation.

[quote]
Therefore, unions cause unemployment. [/quote]

This might not necessarily be the case. It surely is more likely now in the case of walmart given the size and strength of the unions now involved. But, were walmart not so hostile to unions, it is possible that smaller, more autonomous regional unions could have been organized amongst employees. Smaller unions tend to have less bargaining power, and as such, will often see realignments of pay scales in reaction to their bargaining points. This would then translate to a lesser increase in cost to consumers, as well as a minimized job loss.

This is, of course theoretical and measured in contrast to the effect of large UGW- and UWA-type unions. But the assertion that unions cause unemployment is also terribly theoretical and is also dependent upon a number of assumptions as well.

80

[quote]PGA200X wrote:
This is in response to why immigrants are flooding here…

I cant speak from a “getting money to start a business” point of view but I can from “getting money from college” point of view.

For me to better myself it is IMPOSSIBLE for me to get money for college. IMPOSSIBLE! I can get loans but obviously at a price. When it comes time to hand out scholarships a white, straight, 4.0 gpa, right handed, fit, male is the last person they offer “free” money too. So for me to better myself I have to work a full-time job in order to fund my way through college. I’m choosing to “better” myself (not guaranteed) but at a large price. I lose a TON of my freedom as I’m studying and working all the time.[/quote]

I agree that the person you described is probably the last one to get “free money”.

However, in regards to your statement, “I lose a TON of my freedom as I’m studying and working all the time.” life isn’t always fun and sure as shit isn’t full of roses.

I have to work a full time job just to go to college, but it’s what I have to do.

If I spent all my free time complaining i’d be one miserable bastard.

Also, i’m wondering what’s next after Wal-Mart is “fixed” if it ever is. Papa Johns? Pizza Hut? Little Ceasars? Subway? Burger King? After all, those big chains are killing the little local restaurants and pizza joints.